Reviewers Recommend Big Wet Asses 34 - review by Captain Jack Director: Pat Myne Starring: Vince Karter, Zac Wild, Summer Vixen, Lilith Grace, River Lynn, Victor Ray, Tessa Thomas, Jay Romero. Read review
I totally agree with Manuel. The original article said about porn stars "they are finding themselves in need of another job to make their ends meet." It is easy to make a six figure income per year for a pornstar. But some girls can double, triple or quadruple that with feature dancing or escorting.Hollywood is full of actors who wait tables! Some stars get really rich, but the majority of actors make less than pornstars.First of all: The business is open for women and men. Second: The French Foreign Legion pays shit and on an oil-rig it is really hard work. I still rather fuck hot chicks. Steve Holmes
LOL Mr. Holmes. I have problems with the "Exploitation" that is thrown around here like a frisbie. Exploitation is nothing that hits you over the head and leaves you without choice. When you work, you get exploited, that is just a fact. You agree with that, to an extend. On some days, you go home with the feeling that you have been exploited to much for the money you got, on others, you find that you had fun and made money. How much exploitation you can take is a personal preference, when you had enough, you go for alternatives and change. I can't see why this is different for porn talent and why people here worry about them being victimized. These folks take care of themselves as good as they can, like everyone else. De'Bella is a perfect example, she couldn't take any more exploitaion and made an active change in her personal and professional life.
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Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen
Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07
Posted - Nov 22 2007 : 5:17PM
In my little narrow mind, BlackSix is right on. If i was a producer, i'd definitely pay the women more (men less) simply coz i appreciate a beautiful woman who is willing to do such things to please the likes of you & me.
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Hypermastia Deactivated User
These R The Buttocks Of Ryan Star: No Butt Can Compare 248 Posts 6/07
Posted - Nov 22 2007 : 5:20PM
There's Absolutely Nothing To Debate Here It is Infinitely more expensive, difficult, riskier, and labor intensive to start up a Porn Company than it is to perform sex acts on camera. The spectacular ladies of sex films continue to be paid more and more for their vital contribution every time they get buck naked and more in front of the camera. They have agents. Perhaps the #1 reason men are the producers/directors, the true mega-buck earners is that they have an intrinsic understanding of perversion. Despite acting out the perversions(I use this term in a positive sense) over and over and over again on camera, somehow I feel (because Porn is 99.99% product designed for men) women can never truly understand and execute the production values that make for the ultimate pornographic viewing experience. I have very little doubt that Porn Starlets earn considerably more than 99.99% of college graduates. When one looks at all the truly miserable, shitty, dead-end, low-paying jobs available to anyone out there (I've worked a number of them over my lifetime), the Porn life must be fabulous. I've also heard the San Fernando valley is a slightly beautiful place to work.
I wish you luck with your new porn company, but probably you go bankrupt. Paying girls more than they ask for is wasting money. Paying guys less, means you don't get good performers and that ends in boring product. Steve Holmes
I don't know that I agree so much with this. Not that I don't think real pervs understand perversion. But the assumption that all men are pervs isn't entirely accurate. The guys who run the porn business are business men. They can't afford to have guiding principles. They produce what sells. Nothing more, nothing less. There may be a few who actually really enjoy the work but they can't let that override the profit factor. Having said that, I do wish more porn producers (or whom ever has the most control) would use a little more discretion and be a little more ethical. Of course, other than the obvious age requirements and so forth, it's a largely unregulated business and where there's money involved there will always be people who will do whatever they can get by with. Edited by - randomprecision on 11/22/2007 9:32:32 PM
If I hadn't seen what happens when Mason, Hillary Scott or Belladonna directs I would agree. As it stands I think no man can truly understand the limits of a woman like a woman does and thus we can't push them to the limit in the same way.
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eyeballs a bleeding Deactivated Again
181 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 23 2007 : 2:58AM
What's the old saying, "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." Nobody is going to pay anybody more than they have to for anything in life. And as for the guy who says that he's going to pay the girl more than her rate, I'm calling Bullshit. You're not going to pay a car dealer more than the asking price just like you're not going to pay McDonald's more than $.99 for a double cheeseburger.
Hi ChristianXXX, I've been doing the Turkey Day vacation travel thing, so I hadn't noticed your post. (1) Websites "can" make money. If they don't it's because the performer doesn't up-date the content, target her fan base, do "friends" content, connect it to MySpace, etc. I'm talking about earning potential. If somone is only making three grand a month, that's because they have a bad plan or are not working hard enough--which requires self-discipline, that many performers don't have. Or, they may only want to make three grand a month. BTW, if websites did not bring in solid profits, companies like Playboy, Vivid, Club Jenna, and DP would not have it as a major revenue source. Both Playboy and Vivid have recently said in (non-porn) business articles that they now make MOST of their revenue from their internet websites! Think about it. (2) Suze, Earle & Digital pay good money to the models. That's my point. Porn girls can earn money from them. Yes, there are other "hot" internet sites: Naughty America, Reality Kings, Bang Bros., etc. But I didn't mention them because, IMO, they are part of the old system--they're shooting hardcore, (mostly gonzo) porn and distributing it on the internet via downloads (as well as dvd sales). Again, I'm talking about ways in which performers Work For Themselves. The Suze, Earle, Digital photo shoots Feature The Model--the girl's name get out there. That's not true of the Naughty America, Reality Kings, Bang Bros. sites. They often use fake names for the performers. (3) We agree. Performers don't last long in the biz. I simply say they should be in Control of what they do while in the biz--and, also Earn As Much Money as possible. There are hundreds of young people who are using their technical skills--not to work for Microsoft or IBM, but to start their own biz (think Facebook). I believe the smart porn performers are trying to find ways to maximize revenues during their 2, 3, 5 years in the biz. It's about being a Business Person, not the "labor" in someone else's business. (4)Both Kayden and Teagan will either make it or not in this phase of their careers. If Kayden's only doing two scenes a month, that's Great! Because they're scenes she's comfortable with, and she still pays the rent. She does photo work (yes...a lot of it for Suze/Holly) that brings in money, too. It's about her being in Control--not an Agent or a bunch of studio guys telling her what she has to do to make money. Bottom line: My comments are about Money and Control. IMO if a performer is not in "control" of what she has to do to make the "money" to survive in the biz, then she's being exploited. Christian: you & I could talk for years about "if" the system exploits people--and never agree. What exists today seems to work for you...great. But IMO, there is a growing number of performers that the system does not work for. I wonder what a lot of the now-retired pornstars would say about the system? IMO the system needs to change. And, I Respect those performers who (win or lose) are exploring ways to change the old system--and make it work better for them. Just my opinions.
The producer/director and not the performer is supposed to be in control. By definition. Porn or non porn. If a girl or guy is running her/his own web site than they are producer/director. Even if they appear in their own clips. Everybody else (other performers, technicians, make-up artists, editors, and so on, and so forth) get paid. The producer/director invests money, takes the risk, may go bankrupt or might make a lot of money. I love doing both: Being a performer is great. You arrive at the set, just fuck, have a good time and get a nice cheque. Producing/directing gives you the freedom of fulfilling your fantasies, but it is a lot more responsibility. Steve Holmes
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Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen
Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07
Posted - Nov 24 2007 : 1:55PM
1. Not if one actually puts some effort into designing a decent porno. It's bloody obvious nobody does that these days. 2. What I meant was that the girls deserve more money, I don't think I said anything about paying more than they ask for.Another misinterpretation. See #2 above. The reason the chicks ask for a certain fee is because that's the going rate for that act. If she looks for more, producer will go elsewhere (think of your 99c burger). Doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve more remuneration for her troubles. Edited by - kensington chapp on 11/24/2007 1:56:49 PM
Tell that to George Clooney, Tom Cruise. Or Ginger Lynn, Jenna Jameson, Tera Patrick, Rocco Siffredi and many many more. All of these folks have been successful performers/producers. But Steve, you miss my point. The new technology allows for performers to NOT NEED the producers/directors & studios as much as they use to. The current studio system--that works well for guys like you & ChristianXXX--may not work as well for others--female performers in particular. That's why I respect those performers who are exploring other ways to work in adult entertainment--and control their careers, and make more money. It's really as "American" as Thanksgiving. To get back on topic: porn is not by definition "exploitive". But performers can be exploited by the industry. Especially, if performers don't realize that porn is first and foremost a biz. And the business people who run porn will always make decisions that will make money for them over what's best for a performer. So, the performer has to keep an "independent attitude."
1. If a girl is asking for more than the next girl and they are in all other ways equal it's common sense to go to the next girl. The only way that I would argue that the deserve more money would be if there was some x-factor of under the table workers lowering wages. 2. Mentioning Superstars is far from a fair tactic here. I mean how much does Micheal Jordan get paid so that his name can be on a pair of shoes? Once somebody is so famous either within their industry (Hillary Scott, Rocco, Manual) that merely putting their name on a product grants it a certain level of prestige then the rules change. When you start talking Mega-Superstars (Wayne Gretsky, Mike Tyson, Michal Jordan, Jenna Jameson) people so famous that even if you've never watched Hockey, boxing, basketball or porn that you recognize these names they obviously have a lot of pull. My point is that using these people as examples of why a director doesn't always have control is really a poor argument.
Do you mean they deserve more money, but you are not going to give it to them?I paid girls from as low as 200$ to as much as 3000$. Certain girls and acts are just more worth than others.Performers are always independent unless they are contract stars. Starting your own website turns you into a producer even if you still perform in the scenes. You will employ other performers and technicians. You pay everybody up front and hope you will ever make your money back. Hopefully everything works out and you as a producer makes more money than what you paid to the other performers. Steve Holmes
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Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen
Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07
Posted - Nov 25 2007 : 6:28AM
Stevie; 1. Ya, I'd give it to them. And I'd pay them more too. 2. I was aware of this, butt was just trying to generalize (so as not to go on ranting). Of course ugly amateurs will get less for an act than Jessie Jane.
makes me wonder.. is the only reason we feel sorry for them cuz they are women? What I mean is... is a guy went through the same thing, would we even care? if a girl didn't want to do porn, she wouldn't do it. No one is pointing a gun to her head to do it. There are TONS of other jobs out there. And a girl is more likely to be hired at .... pretty much anything.
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Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen
Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07
Posted - Nov 25 2007 : 11:14AM
My friend, I think you'll find that women get hired in the blink of an eye when it comes to porn. There's nothing faster, if she's decent looking.
would someone please pay me money to get fucked by sasha grey!!!! there gots to be a market for a small dick fat guy right??? EXPLOIT ME!!!!! The only real victim in porn are people like me. Fat,ugly,and small and the only sexy female i'll ever get is on screen. Pity me people.... Pity me... Everyone is a victim in this country no one ever stands up for what they do. If Jules Jordan walked into my store and said hey fat ass wanna be in my movie? i wouldnt even say how much i would do it for free.. Every female pornstar is a fricken geniuse cause us dumb ass males pay them to get fucked by studs like Mr.Pete or Manuel. I mean seriously people.....
I've asked this question a few times and I haven't really gotten a straight answer yet. The fact is the attitude that women are always victims even if they don't feel like victims or think they're victims is as sexist as anything else anyone could throw out there. Because it assumes they are completely clueless and need to be protected from everyone. Including themselves if they choose to do something that's not looked favorably upon.
But what happens is if they do it and later regret it, nobody blames them for not using basic common sense. It's always the big, bad porn guy who "lured" them in and took advantage of their helpless situation. I know 50 guys right now who are in just as helpless a situation as any prospective porn girl will ever be in. And NOBODY will ever lift a finger to help them or pity them. And, most likely, a porn producer will never come along and offer them a grand to suck a cock.
Perhaps women naturally get more sympathy than men. Because men are mostly in charge in society. And many men in authority sympathise with women more than with other men because of the sexual attraction they feel towards women. In this mostly male forum, women are getting more sympathy than men too. Perhaps men's sexual attraction towards women has something to do with their natural sexism. Edited by - Dan on 11/26/2007 4:14:39 PM
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Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen
Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07
Posted - Nov 26 2007 : 5:32PM
I hate it when porn producers offer me a grand to suck a cock.
Reading all of this makes one feel like they must live in Mayberry. Let's see now. If Floyd the Barber rents out his barber shop for a shoot, and Aunt Bee does the make-up, does that make either of them exploited since they don't make as much as the producer? You folks are a hoot.
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nietzsche Deactivated User
5470 Posts 8/03
Posted - Nov 27 2007 : 12:37AM
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Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen
Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07
Posted - Nov 27 2007 : 1:48PM
Yes, but Aunt Bee don't gotta get ravaged by a sleaze-bag ex-con whilst feigning utter enjoyment.
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nietzsche Deactivated User
5470 Posts 8/03
Posted - Nov 27 2007 : 10:37PM
I would love to see Helen Crump and Thelma Lou in a hot lesbo scene, then have a platoon of parolees come in and jerk off all over their faces.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Nov 28 2007 : 12:39AM
you want to know who it is this industry REALLY exploits.... Look in the mirror Its the consumer.
When I started working in this industry I struggled cuz sometimes I'd see a girl uncomfortable or really inexperienced and having a hard time doing what was necesary but then I was like a)I've done everything that the girls, in the movies I cast at least, do but I did it FOR FREE and many times wiht someone I didn't really wanna do it with for whatever reason and these girls get a lot of money for literally a couple hours work at the most. (well in most cases) I think the girls who don't really like sex or are inexperienced and uncomfortable deep throating or with reverse cowgirl but are obviously doing it cuz they heard it's "easy money" should just GET OUT!!!! You have no business being here. This business is for women that are very comfortable in their sexuality and have already expanded the normal boundries and are interested in expanding them more. I would get pissed seeing a basically bad scene because the girl obviously didn't want to do this stuff. You have to be an extrovert, sexual, fun, curious, etc. don't do it for the money because it showsm trust me. Although you guys seem to be fooled a lot which I guess is good. I'd get so mad when a little girl would NOt KNOW how to pose at all or make sexy faces...c'mon girls, don't we all do that in our mirrors at home??? Aparently not all of us. That's where the hookers are and then you see a girl who has practiced faces, poses, sexy talk, etc. now that's a porn star!! Models have to practice walking, posing etc. So do porn stars. It depends on why your doing it, the money is great but if that's the only motive, stay on the street corners cuz those guys don't care what you say or how you pose. (oohhh, that was harsh!)
One more thing, I literally more than once had a girl say "I hate cum" and it's like WHAAAA? or "I don't really like sex" I'd go, "Well you made a great career choice." That's just stupid and I can't have sympathy for stupidity. If you don't like cum or dick don't be a friggin porn star!! Would we feel badly for a nurse who hated giving shots??? Change careers. That's why unfortunately the term "hooker" gets thrown around because that is a f-ing hooker. Another girl goes "I hope we don't have to do reverse cowgirl." Since that is one of the most popular shots cuz it shows penetration and face and tits, duh, you're gonna do it every f-ing time, sweety!! I wonder what they think it's gonna be like. I've had girls tell me they don't even like sex and showed up for a photo shoot that turned out to be a porn shoot and I'd ask why they didn't leave and they'd say "the money was so good." So either get out or get with the program!!! I don't sympathize at all, I have no respect for those girls. I appreciate and love girls (like me) who LOVE sex and all the kinky, nasty things that go with it and have parlayed that into a lucrative career. Right on!!! Nobody forces anybody, there's more girls every day lining up, the problem is within them, they are the ones that force themselves to do things they obviously don't like just for a buck...can you say HOOKER????
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Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen
Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07
Posted - Nov 28 2007 : 4:57PM
Everything kristielove said I really shouldn't be here
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nietzsche Deactivated User
5470 Posts 8/03
Posted - Nov 28 2007 : 8:08PM
That's like a doctor saying "I hate blood."
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Nov 28 2007 : 11:49PM
Why else would they be doing it? Do people really believe that women are deciding to do porn for any reason other than the money? This is exactly why they are paid the high rates they receive. How else is the industry to attract women if not for the money it pays? Many people have jobs that they hate, but work there only because they need the money. I'm sure this is especially true for porn chicks.You're absolutely right.
the consumer??? if it wasnt for the plain reason of people wanting money or people wanting to see some hot chick or guy screw there wouldnt be a porn business. How fricken stupid is that??? Kirstie is right.. if the woman doesnt feel at ease during a scene it sucks. A woman can make a buck off her looks in the business but if she dont like fucking she wont ever be shit. you think Jenna Jameson wouldnt be so rich if she didnt like to fuck??? get real man. you ask any man or woman who thier favorite star is and i garuntee if you ask them why its because of the way they fuck. Look at Belladonna and Nacho Vidal scenes. Jenna loves Bella for example; you can see it in every move or touch they make how much they are enjoying the moment. you can hear it in thier moans,see it on thier faces which in part why they are both so damn awesome at what they do. why do you think people like watching ameature porn for? Its because of the real passion in thier sex. you gotta have some talent to even last 3 years in this business. anyway if you honestly think the customer is the one exploited then you obviously have never sold porn. Edited by - nerdgod on 11/29/2007 4:06:28 AM
Annette Schwarz is a good example. Now she is a star and makes good money. But when she started back in Germany, she did the nastiest things for almost nothing. And she still loves it. For perverts like Annette and me (and many more), this business is a great way to live out or fantasies and make money at the same time. Steve Holmes
The master steve holmes is with us .... now for those of us not so lucky to be shacking up with eurohotties here's my opinion on this exploitation bizness. it's a shameful exploitation of the millions of little sperms that are squandered every time you jack off. but the little sperms keep on coming and every day there's fresh new talent. in my opinion the masterminds out there who are able to recruit all the girls and put this together should be paid more, it's pretty obvious why. now if you're a perv that just makes it a dream job!
If we're speaking generally the answer to the question should be that they aren't exploited since at least in the US people have realistic alternatives open to them. It's surely naive to think that once a person utters the phrase "I agree to do that" it automatically can't be a matter of exploitation, but if people have viable options open and still utter that magic phrase, then it really is far-fetched to speak of exploitation. On the other hand, people's tendency in this thread to brush the matter aside with (more or less lame) jokes sort of indicates that the question is hitting a nerve, so maybe I've missed something.
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Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen
Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07
Posted - Nov 29 2007 : 2:18PM
Johnny, do you jack off into a glass jar and store it in the refrigerator?
do YOU really believe that women don't like sex? You actually believe they don't get horny? Men get horny don't they? So what makes you think taht women don't? No matter what kind of fetish a guy has, a girl is gonna have a fetish to match. example, a guy has a fantasy of dominating and spitting in the girl's face, best believe there ARE girls out there that have the fetish on the other side for him and like to BE domniated and get spit on their face by a guy during a sex scene. You ever at least read a sex story? You ever read the part about the girl's nipples getting hard when she got "horny?" or her pussy getting wet? they didn't just "make that up."
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