are they? i mean they both sell their bodies and have sex for money. and if a prostitute filmed her session with her client would that be considered porn and not prostitution? Oh and I dont want to hear about adult movies are just like regular movies with sex cause porn nowadays dont even have storylines. fixed subject line Edited by - heynow on Dec 30 2008
Porn is legal. A prostitute would have to do much more than simply film a session and call it porn. And I don't think anyone has ever said that porn is the high moral ground of the entertainment world... it is what it is... for those that hate it, find other forms of entertainment... for those that want to abolish it, good luck with that, as Americans generally do not like to have rights taken away from them, especially when the right was fought for and won through the court system. And as far as prostitution goes - it exists, will always exist, so why not make it legal and better regulate it to make it safer for all that are involved, and stop wasting tax payer dollars on stopping something that has existed probably since man's first erection?
HeroinJuggernaut: I'm going to suggest that you use the search function (top right of the page) before starting threads in the future. I mean, threads about tattoos (like your infamous "damaged goods" thread) or prostitution are a dime a dozen around here. I used the search function, and I search for threads with the words "prostitute", "prostitution" and "escort" in the title, going all the way back to April 1999 for completion's sake, and I found this exact thread about a billion times. I suggest that everyone read this thread. It is identical in subject to the current one, and it got out of hand in the way one could guess that it might; but more importantly, it discussed many, many interesting points before getting out of hand, and in particular, featured a very good explanation from Kimi Lixx, who has worked as both a porn star and an escort, about how and why they're not the same. [edit: typos] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 12/29/2008 11:29:13 PM
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 29 2008 : 11:29PM
Heroin, it would pages to outline the legal and sociological ramifications of your question. To sum it up, a paid sex act basically involves two (or several) individuals: I will perform this act if you pay me $x. In porn, a third party comes in the picture. The third party contracts out the same 2 indivuals, says to Jane, you will blow and screw John there and I will pay you $800 while I pay John $400. Sign these releases and I own the rights to this material and I can do whatever I want with it. John did not pay Jane to have sex with him. The two were acting it out for someone else. The sex act is an expression and a form of free speech, and between consenting adults. In the early days of porn, the Feds used to bust porn producers, directors and performers on prostitution charegs. So they had to film on the quick and on the sly, to avoid getting arrested, jailed and fined. The rules later changed, but the dreaded "community standards" are still hanging over the industry, so if you perform nasty and extreme type of acts (fisting, scat, etc) the feds will bust you and put you out of business. See what's happened to Max Hardcore as an example of this. So yes, performing a sex act in front of the cameras and for money is a still a paid sex act no matter how you look at it, but in legal terms not quite the same as prostitution.
I dont want to get into a prolonged debate but Personally if i am honest i will always see it as prostitution i am not judging any of the girls and guys, hell, i LOVE a good porn flick but being paid for sex does equal prostitution its such a simple math people can twist words and the letter of the law all day but its how i see it. I think some people may see the word as "dirty" or fear one day the goverment cracking down on it (heaven forbid this happens!) so try to stay as far away as possible from the word but porno is selling penetrative sex services to another person in any reseanable mind this does count as prostitution. Just my two cents on the matter.
^Well, as the poster above you mentioned, the main difference is that the person paying for the sex is not the person getting the sex. If I paid a lot of money to a prostitute, and then she didn't have sex with me, I'd figure that it defeated the entire point of me going to see her. Even if she had sex with nine hundred other dudes in front of me. The fact is that I paid her to get laid. You pay her, she fucks you. In porn, the person who pays the girl doesn't get to fuck her. I'd say that's actually a pretty fundamental difference. But... again, before we get into this discussion, I really do encourage everyone to go read the thread I linked to in my last post. It really does address everything we could possibly say on the matter. Especially the posts from Kimi. Go there, read all her posts, and then come here and say something if you still feel you need to.
Of course we will never get the Psycology of a performer and the nuances of the business i think it is full of different people from the true freaks, to the one movie and outers, to the out and out mercenarys (unfortunately they do appear) so it is hard to impossible for some to classify porno chicks.. But on your point. What about if you paid a prostitute to service a friend privately be it a bacherlor party thing or whatever as long as money changed hands wouldn it still be prostitution in your eyes? money changing hands for sexuel services, like i said its a pretty simple math. Despite my fondness for it the numerous colorful people who inhabit the porn world and nuances between performers the money issue stays constant and is something that will always personally classify it mainly as prostitution for me. Edited by - nightwing on 12/30/2008 3:57:23 AM
Ah. Perhaps I should have been more clear in my last post. Yeah I think this scenario is still different from porn. Here's why: I'm not paying my buddy to have sex with the prostitute. In porn, it's not just the girl being paid, but the guy as well. Thus, the California Supreme Court (and more recently the New Hampshire Supreme Court as well) ruled that it could not be considered the same as prostitution, because all of the people engaging in sexual activity are paid performers.
So what is your point? Do you hate porn and everything involved with it? I'm just curious, seems like a strange post on a porn forum. Everybody involved in making erotic films for major studios are consenting adults making films for consenting adults. How hard is that to get through to you? You obviously have a different opinion and I would be more than happy to hear it if you care to share it with us.
First I have to say, Joey is damn right. This topic has been discussed over and over again. Perhaps we need a tagged thread for newbies with all the topics that have been discussed in-depth before: Is porn prostitution? Has Jenna done anal? Do contracts suck? And why doesn't my fave gal do IR? Well. Since I have too much time on my hands at the moment, I answer the OP's question. In my opinion the distinction between porn and prostitution is a construct. A distinction constructed by different people for different reasons. California wanted to keep the porn industry's tax dollar, hence it created the legal construct. Some porn stars prefer to see themselves as entertainers/performers and look down on prostitutes, hence they created the moral construct. Some consumers watch porn but don't visit prostitutes. Making the distinction between porn and prostitution gives them the feeling of ethical superiority. But after all it comes down to two things: Somebody sell his/her body for money. Somebody pays to get sexually stimulated. Prostitution is the oldest profession. Porn is only 100 years old. And that it uses film/video as a means to an end doesn't make it any less prostitution than the conventional way of trading money for sex. That's my opininon. Anybody is entitled to have a different one. Actually I'm glad that the state of California has a different one.
There's always new stars, new fans, new topics and old topics that become new. It should all be open for discussion. There is a thin very line between porn and prostitution. Maybe it is the same thing. Especially when so many girls are also escorts. I'm sure some of their families think of them as whores either way. As long as there are men who want 'no strings attached sex', being able to just pick a chick and not romance her, getting exactly what he wants, either in fantasy or reality, it will continue. And as long as there are ultra horny women who need more than one man, and a need for constant sex partners, feeling like, "hey, I can get paid to do what I love", it will continue. Let's face it, even rocks stars, sports stars, and movie stars use escorts and porn stars. Can you say, Charlie Sheen? And so many others. These are guys who can go to clubs, or wherever, and pick up the most beautiful women anywhere. For free. Simply because they're rich and famous. Sometimes these guys just want what they want. If money is no object, you can have a constant playground of hot-ass pussy, without ever being stressed for relationships or marriage. And if you are married you gotta get some play! So long live the porn stars and prostitutes. Oh shit, I gotta play my Mega Millions numbers for today.
Can we simply stop another of these stupid discussions before it turns into another shouting match? Here's the bottom line: it doesn't matter if you think porn stars are prostitutes or not of whether you like or respect either profession. The point is, it's a profession and thus it's NOT the place of anyone on this board to be casting arbitrary moral judgments on any people for engaging in it.
I don't know about those other guys but there's no moral judgments on my part. Besides, it's a good discussion. Where else should it be made, if not on a porn forum? On Capitol Hill?
But isn't a Pimp a third party? This thread reminds me of the flick, The Running Man. (In best Ah-nold voice!) Hey Killian, I'll be back! Richard Dawson: Only in the reruns pal!
Of course. But if a new member is really interested in other people's opinion he'd rather revive an old thread instead of starting a new one. Lots of opinions on this topic have been already posted.
Of course it's better to talk about it here than to pass arbitrary laws on the subject that reflect only the opinions of those who wrote it. That said, the point of discussion seems to be to establish if being an actor in the sex industry is as "wrong" as it is to be a prostitute. So, if this discussion is to continue, I'd like to pose the question as to whether the same standards are being adhered to whether or not the person in question is male or female.
"Seems" is the key. Do you consider being a prostitute "wrong" and being a porn star "right"?
Edited by - juha on 12/30/2008 4:42:03 PM
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 30 2008 : 6:16PM
A "pimp" who pimps out a prostitute keeps the money that John pays to Jane. An adult movie producer shells out money to John and Jane to act out a sex out. He will make money (hopefully) later on when he sells the finished product to consumers.
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Knuckle Kids Deactivated User
287 Posts 4/08
Posted - Dec 30 2008 : 6:45PM
A "pimp" who pimps out a prostitute keeps the money that John pays to Jane. An adult movie producer shells out money to John and Jane to act out a sex out. He will make money (hopefully) later on when he sells the finished product to consumers.
Click to expand
Well, the producer is paying the "manager" or as they are also called, "suitcase pimp" so I guess it would be relevant here.
I'm beginning to the the OP is simply the resident ADT troll looking to start up shit on the board. Each and everyone of the topics have been something thats been talked about many times, but has this underlying almost derogatory tone in it. Just my observation.
Absolutely not. I personally find nothing wrong with either profession as long as the person doing it does not feel exploited. Once they are taken advantage of or exploited, it does become a problem. That said, even in such cases, the problem lies with the individual's bad circumstances as opposed to the profession as a whole. Does that make sense? If not I'll try and clarify.
Who cares?OK. If you want to make a big deal over it, if you wanted to get technical about it, I guess you could say they're prostitutes. So what's your point? Every couple of weeks someone comes along with this silly question. What difference does it make?
Again, as with the other guy, what if it is? So what? Seeing as to how I don't have any more of a problem with consensual adult prostitution as I do with eating a turkey sandwich, I don't see what the stink is about with you people. I really just don't get it. Can't you go watch grass grow or something?
Its an interesting question and this is a porn forum so if you like it or not its gonna come up if you hate the subject dont reply to the thread while we continue.
Makes perfect sense. And I totally agree. A porn girl straight from the bus with an abusive boyfriend is definitely in a worse position than a high class prostitute who can be very picky choosing her clients.
Good point. Women are viewed as sluts, men are studs. Porn says, there is nothing wrong with being a slut, if you choose to be. I agree. Capitol Hill never talks about gay porn, does it? I don't know. But to most, gay porn is so far underground it's ignored. Plus...it's just dudes, so who cares? So yeah, it is all aimed at women. And girls. But female porn stars keep stepping out. Trying to go mainstream. There lies the rub. It's a threat to many. I have a former girlfriend who's a producer on THE VIEW. The women on set and behind the scenes were not that comfortable with Jenna Jameson during her visit last summer. I say the biggest threat to the virtue of young girls has been Madonna. She's been fake porn, with a beat, mainstream for two decades. She made slutdom fashionable, far more than any porn star. In fact, I would bet that most porn stars were huge Madonna fans growing up. She was the role model for millions of girls. Most of whom, dressed like hookers. So today, many are pornstars, many are prostitutes, many are both. As long as they all made their own choices and no MAN made the choice for them, WHO CARES? Am I making any sense or am I just jacked-up on tequila? It's the holiday, you know. Edited by - skyscrapper on 12/31/2008 2:50:17 PM Edited by - skyscrapper on 12/31/2008 2:53:22 PM
It also has a search function and this topic has been discussed into the ground just since I've been here. I'm sure in the long history of the forum, it's been discussed to infinity. It might have been an interesting discussion at one time if the people who kept resurrecting it didn't have an obvious agenda.
Agenda?what kind of agenda can someone have poseing a question on a porn forum its not exactly partisan politics. Porn=protitution? Its an eternal question but though i do think it easily qualifies as prostitution personaly i dont care. Some people i feel get caught in some kind of romantic fantasy of the female porn performer as some insatiable beast always on the hunt for cock and see the word prostitution as something to look down upon even some performers themselves see themselves as "adult actresses" seeing the word prostitution as beneath them. The reality is imo they are laregly women in a business that sells sex, sure, we get the occasional women who qualify for that almost mythical type of women but i think they are VERY rare. I am not slagging them of in any way and i love performers like Vanessa blue, giana, ava devine and co i just see the reality of the business but do not let it spoil my enjoyment of it. Just my two pence on the matter and Viva porn! Happy new year everyone!.
I think more important than asking whether pornstars are prostitutes or not, is asking why one would care to discuss this. If you think both are ok, then great, who cares if someone thinks they're the same or not. You might have an opinion on the subject, but you're probably not going to start a thread about it, because it's of no consequence. If you think they're both wrong, then you shouldn't be on a porn board in the first place. Same for if you think prostitution is ok but porn is wrong. So realistically, the only people really into discussing it would be the ones who think porn is ok but prostitution isn't. So rather than have this discussion, instead start at the beginning of the discussion: start a thread called "Is prostitution ok?" in the "Sex Talk" or "Polls" forum. Only once that is answered is there any need for the current thread. [edit: added a bit] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 1/1/2009 3:42:27 AM
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sasha_grey14388 Deactivated User
16 Posts 12/08
Posted - Jan 1 2009 : 3:42AM
to have sex it does not mean that you are doing prostitution, for example all married people have sex but in under the rules of religion first and the legal rules has to be confirmed by religion rules,,,for example again man in islamic religion can have from 1- 4 wives in the same time not more, while woman can not have more than one husband,only if she is devorced ,then she can marry another!!!....in other religions man or woman can have more or less sex partner!!!. prostitution is refused socially while to be a porn star is looked to be high mentioned person in the same society!!! so the problem is in the social point of view!!! not because porn stars are legal while prostitues are not!!! all porn stars are legal prostitues while another legal love makers are more legal because their permission is religious before it is legal!!! so porn stars if they are not confirmed by religious rules they are considered to be prostitues but ..they are permitted by law !! not religion!!
And just how relevant is it? We are all whores in one way or another. My "Pimp" aka manager tells me what to do and when to do it, I don't have much choice in the matter. He takes the lion's share and gives me the leftovers. Now don't get me wrong, I have a good Pimp and the leftover's are way more than enough to eat off. I even lick the plate.
Come on, Kill. you know this is just like talk radio. People share their on-going opinions simply because they can. A new thought pops into your head. Gotta share it. Someone says something that we just gotta respond to. Keeping the chatter going. Having a voice. Who said the topic had to smart or even necessary? Take me. I didn't have to make this statement. But you asked the question. I could not resist. I had to speak up. The mike was mine for taking. We'll be right back. After this message. From The Hugo Brothers. Male Enhancement Formula. Edited by - skyscrapper on 1/2/2009 6:37:35 PM
I think we are going on because most people in our society, no matter what they say, do think prostitution is beneath them. I have asked many female friends thoughts on this and women in particularly most of all seem to despise women who sell sex they see it as the ultimate intimate act which is priceless while men (and myself)are more lenient. We have to ask ourselves questions and answer truthfully when we ask if we think it is wrong, for eg, when we see the hooker on the street corner do we really feel she is your equal? remember not all prostitutes are drop dead model types. Would you be fine with a female relative doing it? It does raise a lot of questions...
@ntfighter: nothing wrong with pointing out that something's been done before. It's not like he said people can't do it again or anything. @Skyscrapper: my point was not that people can't have opinions on the matter. My point was that people are asking of themselves (and others) the wrong question. @juha: I don't see anybody stopping the thread. So what are you worried about? To the three of you: the above post by nightwing is the first honest one in this thread. That's the kind of thing that must be talked about before even getting into the issue of whether or not it's all the same...
Everyone, myself included, has an ego to defend. We all want people to say we're right. My only reason for writing in these threads is because I know a number of people who have worked in both professions who are in a constant battle with hypocrites looking down on and condemning them for what they do but who then shell out money to get their rocks off via their trades.
Not sure why you would want to email me, but the girl in my pic is a smokin hot chic, not me. I am a dude and I'm not a porn star, just a whore like most of us. You see, I'm a sub contractor, (one step away from being self employed, because I have a pimp who gets me work). My point is that we are all either Pimps, Prostitutes or Johns any way you look at it. It doesn't matter what you actually do. And almost no matter what you do people will always think they are better than you. Fuck them. So I like to think that before anybody calls a "Pornstar" a glorified whore they better take a look in the mirror. I also noticed that you have been deactivated but am sure you are reading this as either a guest or under another name.
I hear this a lot,Its so easy to say that "were all whores,pimps and Johns" and maybe to a small extent it is true BUT imo thats far to easy an answer. I dont want to get sappy but the plain fact is in our society sex to most people is the ULTIMATE human expression of love a women can give a man be it one night stand or a long term relationship/marrige and as i said to some people it is priceless so people who sell it are looked down upoun be it the hooker on the street corner or the supermodel looking pornstar. its nothing at all like "working for the man" or being a sub contractor and we all know this. Like i said ask yourself the questions i mentioned above i think its all to eay to state some things on a keyboard but its a whole different ballgame when you apply to your real life.
Ok, I made my New Year's Resolution to be a kinder and gentler poster, but if you think that SEX is the ULTIMATE expression of LOVE I would disagree with you. Now it is only my opinion, but to me the ultmate expression of love is saying " I LOVE U", "I SUPPORT U", "I FORGIVE U." You might insinuate that I just type from my keyboard and have no real idea, but I can tell you I am happily married to a wonderful woman and we are able to share our lives. I am also happily divorced and I hope my ex-wife rots in hell, she cheated on me and I was faithful. I will stand behind my position that "Sex" is not the ultimate gesture of Love. With both feet. But that is just my opinion, one that is not shared by many others.
Introducing Natasha Carter
Posted - Dec 29 2008 : 10:49PM
