Problems With 5 Star DVD?

Author	Post
Max Booty Member New Orleans 484 Posts 6/03	Posted - Dec 13 2007 : 9:15PM I have been trying to log onto Five Star DVD for a couple of days now and all I get is the enter screen, followed by another enter screen followed by a we-are-doing-a-15-minute-system-maintenence screen. Is anyone else getting this? [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Dec 13 2007 : 10:47PM Five Star's business was found guilty in an obscenity trial in Arizona. I suspect they are being forced to shut their business down. I fully expect to see their site to switch to a message from the FBI or DOJ about the domain name being forfeited at some. I do know for a fact that fivestardvd.com is out of business. [Link]
Young Pup New Member 3 Posts 6/06	Posted - Dec 22 2007 : 5:20PM So what happens to their customers details? Are we in trouble? Sorry for sounding stupid. I allways found the service reputable. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Dec 22 2007 : 8:22PM I wouldn't say you're in trouble. But the government did seize all of their servers, accounting records, purchase records, sales receipts, etc., etc. way back when the initial raid happened way before the trial ever started. I have no idea what happens to the website and all of the data that's been collected since the initial raid. [Link]
pete123 New Member 4 Posts 5/07	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 11:17AM Does anybody know anymore ???. I would like to know what is going on. [Link]

Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 2:34PM Do you have a more specific concern? FiveStarDVD.com is out of business. The business was found guilty of selling obscene materials by a Federal Court in Arizona. The persecution (that's not a typo) ruined the lives of the owners of the company. Their brick and mortar video store is being sold to a former employee and the website is out of business. I have no idea why their website is still online. I suspect that it will be switched at some point to a DOJ "trophy" page. [Link]
willywilly Member Activated Member 662 Posts 2/05	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 3:34PM Max Booty wrote: I have been trying to log onto Five Star DVD for a couple of days now and all I get is the enter screen, followed by another enter screen followed by a we-are-doing-a-15-minute-system-maintenence screen. Is anyone else getting this? Click to expand You can get around that by going to http://www.fivestardvd.com/new_release.asp Looks like the newest is Dec. 5, and that's telling you something. :) Try http://www.fivestardvd.com/forum all spam - has been for ages. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 5:44PM You can't add anything to your shopping cart. You can't place an order. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 9:01PM I spent some time tonight reading through some of the court documents regarding the Five Star case. You can dig them up online if you know where to look. There were a ton of pre-trial motions. Some of them had to do with improper execution of the original search warrants. While it's true that the FBI did seize all of the customer records this seizure was not proper. The Feds were subsequently ordered by a Federal judge to return any improperly obtained data and to destroy any copies that might be in their possession. I don't think that anyone needs to worry that the Feds are scrutinizing their porn purchasing habits based on Five Star's customer records. The Feds wouldn't need it anyway. The NSA has compiled a profile on you from snooping your credit card transactions and emails. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 9:16PM All this stuff about Five Star really saddens me. Not many people know that Five Star was our very first advertising customer ever. Prior to their legal troubles due to the anti-porn folks put in place by BuschCo they were one of the top 3 outlets for adult DVDs anywhere on the internet. They were always a pleasure to work with. I apologize that some my replies in this thread and previous threads about the case are rather abrupt and matter-of-fact sounding. Much of the way that this whole situation transpired with the case against them really piss me off. What happened to them is incredibly unfair on so many levels. [Link]
Young Pup New Member 3 Posts 6/06	Posted - Dec 24 2007 : 8:51AM Thank you for the replies Mr Black. It annoys me that my personal data is in alien hands, they really should destroy them if they have shut the buisness down as a matter of obeying legality. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Dec 24 2007 : 9:42AM I don't think the sentencing has happened yet. I should look that up. That's the only reason I can think of that the site is still online although not taking orders. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Dec 28 2007 : 1:19AM BTW, the sentencing is scheduled for 1/21/2008. [Link]
Ohri Member 23 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jan 2 2008 : 7:38PM If you check Wikipedia, they discuss the charges in the entry for Obscene: In June 2006, the U.S. Federal government in the district of Arizona brought a case against JM Productions of Chatsworth, Calif. in order to classify commercial pornography that specifically shows actual semen being ejaculated as obscene. The four films that were the subject of the case are entitled "American Bukkake 13", "Gag Factor 15", "Gag Factor 18" and "Filthy Things 6". The case also includes charges of distribution of obscene material (a criminal act under 18 USC § 1465 - "Transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution") against Five Star DVD for the extra-state commercial distribution of JM Productions' films in question. The case has been advanced to actual trial, which is scheduled to begin on October 16th 2007. At the first date of trial, the US DoJ has decided NOT to pursue the JM obscenity case any further, leaving the matter without resolution, possibly fearing the formal establishment of sperm showing sex films as a nationally legal protected material (declared as "non-obscene") if the trial was decided in favor of JM Productions. While the US DoJ had decided to abandon its legal pursuit of the JM productions, U.S. District Court Judge Roslyn O. Silver has forced the legal case against Five Star DVD distributors to continue, whereby the legal classification of whether "sperm showing through ejaculation" is an obscene act and thus illegal to produce or distribute will be definitely answered in order to convict Five Star of being guilty of "18 USC 1465 - Transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution". The jury found Five Star Video LC and Five Star Video Outlet LC were guilty of "18 USC 1465 - Transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution" for having shipped JM Productions' film "Gag Factor 18". However, the specific content in that film that the jury deemed to be actually fulfill the legal qualification of being "obscene" has not been specifically stated at this point. Click to expand (sorry for the grammar, but that's the way it's written on the Wiki site) Long, but it explains what happened. I found Five Star via an Anime forum eons ago, and while I probably ordered less than a half dozen DVDs from them over the years (my collection is minuscule so that comprises about 75% of it ), they were always quick, reliable and professional. I ended up coming to ADT because I couldn't figure out what the problem with the Five Star site was. I never would have guessed they were forced out of business. It's very, very sad. It also bares a scary resemblance to Castillo vs Texas. I hope the sentencing is a mere formality and that they won't face fines or jail time. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jan 3 2008 : 11:52AM The Wiki is very inaccurate. The Government's case against JM was not dropped because of anything related to sperm coming from a penis. The initial raid of Five Star was botched by the Feds. Some of the evidence obtained in that raid was thrown out by the judge. Many motions later the DOJ had backed themselves into a situation where they had no evidence to connect JM to Five Star and ultimately had to drop the charges against JM. The legal motions had absolutely nothing to do with actual sperm spewing from actual penises. Aditionally, the case wouldn't have set a national precedent. It would have only applied to the Federal district that Phoenix is in. Don't trust the Wikipedia. [Link]

Ohri Member 23 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jan 3 2008 : 9:30PM Drew Black wrote: The Wiki is very inaccurate. (snipped Don't trust the Wikipedia. Click to expand Admonishment taken. I usually read Wikipedia with a grain of salt, but it was the only place I could find any information on the case, and a number of reference sites are actually lifting their reporting of the case from Wiki. Let's hear it for internet accuracy . Searching today I found: Federal Grand Jury Charges Arizona And California Companies (Announcement) The Indictment I can't... well, I can believe that the DoJ wasted time on this. It's just very, very sad. [o\\|] Knowing Five Star was found guilty, this is the most alarming: If convicted, the defendants face a maximum penalty of five years in prison on each of the obscenity counts. Click to expand Scary math to contemplate considering there were more than a dozen counts in the indictment. Ah, just found this (in retrospect, duh! don't know why I didn't check AVN to begin with): Phoenix Jury Finds JM's Gag Factor 18 Obscene (AVN) If I'm reading correctly, they were found guilty of two counts. To contemplate the worst case sentencing-scenario is depressing, so I'll just cross my fingers and check back on January 21st. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 4 2008 : 5:17PM WTF was in Gag Factor 18 that the pussies in Phoenix found so obscene. This is a fucking travesty and if you aren't enraged by this everyone on here should be. Fucking Nazis !!!!!!!!! Unfuckingbelievable. Sad? WTF is sad? You should be furious. "Censorship is the first step towards dictatorship !" Honest Ed [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 4 2008 : 5:22PM Good lord it's only a bj movie with gagging in it? Holy fucking shit ! [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jan 4 2008 : 10:09PM Ohri wrote: Knowing Five Star was found guilty, this is the most alarming: If convicted, the defendants face a maximum penalty of five years in prison on each of the obscenity counts. Click to expand ... If I'm reading correctly, they were found guilty of two counts. To contemplate the worst case sentencing-scenario is depressing, so I'll just cross my fingers and check back on January 21st. Click to expand Charges against the individuals were dismissed. It was the two companies that were found guilty. So, I don't think that this will be a matter of anyone going to jail. It will likely be a matter of fines and the companies going out of business. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 5 2008 : 4:28PM ^ That's a very appropriate avatar. Did 5 star have adult industry legal representation or local lawyers? [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 5:13AM This has been coming ever since 2000. They had intended to go after porn much sooner and more aggressively and they would have except for 9-11. But fear not. They still have about a year. And maybe more. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 5:29AM And furthermore - Don't blame Bush and friends. Blame your friends and neighbors who voted for the bastards. They were warned and they either wanted it to happen, didn't care or they didn't listen. I'm outraged but I'm absolutely not surprised in the slightest. Nobody should be. If you're surprised, you haven't been paying attention. Edited by - randomprecision on 1/6/2008 5:31:24 AM [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 10:23AM backdoorman wrote: ^ That's a very appropriate avatar. Did 5 star have adult industry legal representation or local lawyers? Click to expand They had excellent adult industry representation. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 10:31AM Again my question. What in the DVD did the jury find so obscene. There are tons of videos just like it out there I imaging. That could be a real problem. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 10:48AM Obscenity doesn't work that way. It's not like they can say at 33:45 into the movie such and such occurs. This act is obscene. I'm too lazy to look up the exact text at the moment but the law essentially requires the jury to consider the whole work and not just specific portions. Sure there are tons of movies like this but there's no silver bullet for the prosecution to now go after every movie that depicts sex act X. It doesn't work that way. [Link]

backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 10:55AM Well at least a small ray of hope I guess. I just am in total shock. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 3:20PM backdoorman wrote: Again my question. What in the DVD did the jury find so obscene? Click to expand Simple answer - Sex. More specifically - Hardcore sex. Plain old sex is obscene to these people. Of course, it probably doesn't help that this appears to have been one of those gagging titles but this particular jury would have likely found anything that contained hardcore sex to be obscene. That's likely why the feds chose to file the charges in that particular area. They do it where they think they have the best chance of winning. I have no idea how they came to that conclusion but it looks like they did their homework. It's very likely that the prosecution worked as hard as they could to get the biggest prudes in the country on that jury. I keep repeating this but it's worth repeating it again. In a country where plain old fucking is obscene, it doesn't matter what's in a video. Not that much, anyway. The main reason they went after it is because it's porn. The secondary reason was simply because they could. The time and the political climate was right. They'll go after anyone they think they can get a conviction on. These guys didn't do anything wrong, per se. Nothing except sell adult movies in an area of the country where people won't stand up for other people's rights. That's all it takes. Edited by - randomprecision on 1/6/2008 3:30:40 PM [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 4:03PM Oddly enough, it seems the same jury acquitted them on charges for a couple of other videos. That's if I'm getting the facts straight. Which, really, is kinda irrelevant since one conviction is all they needed anyway. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 2:57AM RandomPrecision wrote: Oddly enough, it seems the same jury acquitted them on charges for a couple of other videos. That's if I'm getting the facts straight. Click to expand Yes, you have the facts straight. Other videos that included hardcore sex were not deemed obscene when the community standards of Phoenix were considered. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 12:40PM The only thing I can figure, then, is that those particular people were simply offended by that particular video more than the others. I don't see how they could determine precisely what the community standards of Phoenix are when no community has a "community standards handbook". And for that matter, since the only people in Phoenix (or anywhere else) who are going to see any of these videos are people who ordered them and paid for them. Stands to reason those people want to see them. Assuming they're not an undercover FBI agent with apparently nothing better to do post-9-11 than investigate people for having genitals. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 12:54PM I have way too many questions to ask about this. Was the fact that the internet is in every community mentioned and that you have access to way more stuff than was on the video? What idiots were sitting on the jury. Old folks retired. Bible thumpers, left wing or right wing lunatics or as I suspect just simple retarded people that don't know where they shit last? Is an appeal in the process? I am reminded of the following poem by Martin Niemöller. When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I wasn't a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out. "Censorship is the first step towards dictatorship !" Honest Ed [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 1:13PM I haven't been able to find any information on the jury or the jury selection process. I believe there were 8 women and four men. So maybe that tells you something. Basically, it appears the prosecution nuked them. That is, they filed so many charges against them that they were bound to get a conviction. It's SOP for prosecutors these days. If a guy robs a bank, they don't just charge him with robbing a bank (Even though that charge alone would be sufficient to send him up for a long time). They charge him with everything that's applicable. Obviously, just in case he's acquitted of some of the other charges. They don't tend to bring charges unless they think they have a case.....somewhere. Juries tend to take their role seriously. People like to feel important. Thus, if they're following the law, if the defendant actually did what they were charged with, they have little choice but to convict. Which still doesn't excuse the fact that you shouldn't even be able to charge people with obscenity for something like this. Edited by - randomprecision on 1/7/2008 1:15:54 PM [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 1:20PM RandomPrecision wrote: And for that matter, since the only people in Phoenix (or anywhere else) who are going to see any of these videos are people who ordered them and paid for them. Stands to reason those people want to see them. Click to expand Here's something else to ponder: the videos were shipped to Virginia not Phoenix. The lack of a community standards handbook is precisely one of the reasons why obscenity cases are so difficult to prosecute and defend. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 2:24PM Yeah. I noticed that. Kinda weird. You'd think they'd have prosecuted the case in Virginia since that's where the video was actually going. How can someone seeing an "obscene video" in Virginia violate community standards in Phoenix? I guess it's because Phoenix is where they were based. Or maybe the Virginia authorities weren't cooperative? [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 3:19PM The crime was distribution. The "distributing" happened in Phoenix. [Link]

RFrog Member 396 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 6:43PM I can offer some sympathies to the FCC for enforcing standards because of the public airwaves. But, who cares about DVDs or pay-per-view? What people want to see in their private homes should be their business. If the DOJ is going to prosecute porn companies, I have to ask, "Who is the victim?" If the DOJ feels that the performers in the video are "victims", well let them try to form a case. Going after child pornographers is one thing. But these performers are legal adults who have chosen to participate in these videos. Who's the victim? As long as these DVD movies are viewed by consenting adults in private, what's the crime? Fight the power! [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 7:42PM Their thinking seems to be that the community is the victim. Victim of what would probably be a more accurate question. I always say people have every right to be offended. They have no right to expect others not to offend them, however. The easiest thing in the world to do is to look away or simply mind your business. [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 7:49PM Drew Black wrote: The crime was distribution. The "distributing" happened in Phoenix. Click to expand But based on that logic, shouldn't Jeff Steward & JM have been tried in Chatsworth? That's where they did the "distributing" (allegedly). [Link]
mrhector Senior Member 5084 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 8:52PM Since I don't want my buying history to fall into unwelcome hands, I guess I need to buy from etailers in states that are more tolerant. Which states are the coolest about this issue ? Or should I start buying my vids from the Netherlands ??? [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 9:24PM If you have a local brick and mortar, why not just do all your adult business in cash? No paper trail at all. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 9:28PM But based on that logic, shouldn't Jeff Steward & JM have been tried in Chatsworth? That's where they did the "distributing" (allegedly). Click to expand Maybe, but the DOJ couldn't prove that JM sold or shipped the DVDs to Five Star. That's why the charges were dropped ultimately against them. [Link]
RFrog Member 396 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 12:06AM I spoke to a "source" today. He told me that he used to work for a porn distributer and the shipping office supervisor told him DO NOT send product to these particular states. (He told me the states, but I forgot.) Is this an FTC issue? I'll have to re-read the court papers. The sights and sounds of human... um... fornication... can be a touchy subject. When did modern humans become uneasy or embarrassed about public displays of sex? I suspect it's psychological. Many married or committed couples enjoy seeing each other naked, but they may feel violated when others see them. For example, they may totally enjoy having sex with each other in their backyard, but they freak when they see the neighbor staring at them over the hedge. One could argue, that's normal. Perhaps there's a psychological need for modern humans to keep their sex private. I can understand a citizen advising their government, "I don't want to take a stroll through the public park and find two couples fornicating by the picnic tables!!!" Where does one draw the line? I'm not sure. What about public kissing? Can a woman give her boyfriend a lap dance (fully clothed) in a public park or is that too sexual and, thus, obscene? I understand citizens telling their government that they don't want to walk their kids to school and see a billboard advertising naked, fornicating people. But, what about the privacy of the bedroom? If the content is on video to be played in private where the public can't see or hear it, is there a crime? Who's the victim? The community is the victim? How can the community see it or hear it, if it's behind closed doors? If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? [Link]
five_star Five Star DVD Tempe, AZ 167 Posts 11/99	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 1:13AM I’m reluctant to post here because we still have a sentencing hearing next month however I wanted to make a few quick comments. The government invested a significant amount of resources to convict us. There were numerous FBI agents, an obscenity task force and several federal prosecutors all focused on putting us in prison and shutting down our company. It’s frightening how powerful the government can be when they set their sights on someone. We fought like hell but the government has unlimited resources and ultimately they succeeded in financially crushing us and shutting down our business. Fortunately we had an outstanding legal team lead by Jeffrey Douglas. Without Mr. Douglas' brilliant legal work it’s almost certain that we’d be facing prison sentences and felony convictions. We consider that a major victory. By the way, our only crime was distributing, to adult customers, movies that showed consenting adults having sex. No children, rape or animals were involved. Right now in this country we’re beginning the process of choosing our next president. Please remember that if you enjoy exercising your right to watch adult movies, the current administration doesn’t share your enthusiasm. If we continue to elect leaders who don’t respect citizen’s rights then we’ll continue to get more of the same - including obscenity prosecutions and spying on citizens. Ken Graham Five Star DVD [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 3:05AM I'm surprised to find this is news to so many. I'm also surprised how many americans seem to have a poor grasp of their own laws. I don't agree with the obscenity laws in the US, but as they exist (just google it, they are built on several rulings not just one) this case is legit unfortunately, and anyone could see it coming, although I'm sure Five Star put up a good fight and it could have gone the other way. The Feds have failed in most modern obscenity cases because, contrary to RP's view, most jurors (women included RP) aren't offended by the sight of a man and woman fucking, in one case a conversative southern jury even found a film with a gang bang scene with Vanessa Del Rio to not be obscene. But S/M has always been misunderstood by the general public and abuse-oriented porn like JM presented the perfect target for an obscenity case because it is so extreme. Certainly this doesn't bode well for Max Hardcore's case, unless he can slip through on a technicality like JM did here. Edited by - BlackSix on 1/8/2008 3:07:13 AM [Link]
Bandit One Deactivated User No Place That Far 612 Posts 9/02	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 3:23AM Nevermind- found what I was lookin for. Edited by - bandit one on 1/8/2008 3:30:53 AM [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 3:33AM 'Community standards' are not defined in law, they are decided on by a jury in part by using the Miller Test. Vague? Hell yeah, thank your supreme court for that. In general, the southern states are seen as good hunting grounds for obscenity case, in particular places like Florida. Ohio and Iowa and Boston are probably not to be considered safe either. Possession of 'obscene' material by your common citizen is not usually a concern; distribution, sale and production is what the Feds are interested in prosecuting. Possession of kiddy porn is the only material that would put one in line for charges. Busting people for distribution is usually the easiest case to make, that's why I think 5 Star was left holding the bag for JM. Edited by - BlackSix on 1/8/2008 3:34:07 AM Edited by - BlackSix on 1/8/2008 3:37:39 AM [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 9:31AM Again I "internet" [Link]
Ohri Member 23 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 12:46PM five_star wrote: I’m reluctant to post here because we still have a sentencing hearing next month... Click to expand So I'm guessing no appeal. Understandable since in the 30+ years since Miller v. CA the Supreme Court has made a habit of refusing to hear these types of cases. Simply translated: you'll give the shirt off your back to take it to the highest court, and they won't deign to listen. I will definitely keep my fingers crossed for you guys. I wish you the best. BlackSix wrote: I'm surprised to find this is news to so many. I'm also surprised how many americans seem to have a poor grasp of their own laws... Click to expand We don't even have a good grasp of our own geography, you thought we'd know the law? Truth of the matter is, unless you have an RSS news feed for ADT and AVN, something like this will fly under the radar. I knew nothing about Five Star's legal troubles until I tried their site a couple of weeks ago and kept getting the "maintenance" notice. It was only after searching ADT that I discovered their trial was pretty much over and done with. The reason I have any knowledge of Castillo v. Texas is because I'm an Anime & Manga fan. Most people - including fans - will remain blissfully ignorant until it affects them directly. c'est la vie BlackSix wrote: I don't agree with the obscenity laws in the US, but as they exist (just google it, they are built on several rulings not just one) this case is legit unfortunately, and anyone could see it coming, although I'm sure Five Star put up a good fight and it could have gone the other way. Click to expand The heart of the problem is that there is no universal standard. By allowing each community to define their own definition of obscenity you open the floodgates for prosecution, since what may pass with flying colors in one area will be considered verboten in another. If Five Star had been tried in my hometown (Sodom & Gomorrah, aka NYC) I'd wager the outcome would have been much different. [Link]
Kensington Chapp Senior Citizen Mine is the biggest. 610 Posts 7/07	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 2:08PM RandomPrecision wrote: This has been coming ever since 2000. They had intended to go after porn much sooner and more aggressively and they would have except for 9-11. But fear not. They still have about a year. And maybe more. Click to expand What do you mean when you say "they still have a year" ? I really shouldn't be here [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 4:03PM Does anyone know the status of this ? http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070714/ai_n19372477 "Censorship is the first step towards dictatorship !" Honest Ed [Link]
Ohri Member 23 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 6:50PM backdoorman wrote: Does anyone know the status of this ? http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070714/ai_n19372477 Click to expand According to the DoJ site, the latest news on the case is this: 2007 - June 14 SALT LAKE CITY -- A federal complaint unsealed Thursday morning charges Sami R. Harb and Michael Harb, doing business as Movies by Mail, an internet sales business located in Cleveland, Ohio, with one count of selling obscene material, U.S. Attorney Brett L. Tolman of the District of Utah and Salt Lake City FBI Special Agent in Charge Timothy Fuhrman announced today. Click to expand From AVN: According to the indictment and other court documents, three DVDs including Max Hardcore's Pure Max 18 and Extreme 12, and Extreme Associates' Cocktails 5, were ordered from a Web site operated by the Harbs and mailed to an address in Salt Lake City as part of an FBI undercover investigation. The indictment alleges that these movies are "obscene." Court documents disclose that Movies by Mail delivered 683 packages to addresses in the state of Utah during 2006; 149 of them to addresses in Salt Lake City. Click to expand Why the DoJ wastes time and taxpayer money on this is beyond me. From the names alone I can guess these are videos I'd have absolutely no desire or interest in seeing, much less purchasing, but if adults consented to make it and adults consented to buy it, it's no skin off my back. To paraphrase Voltaire, I may disapprove of what you watch, but I will defend your right to watch it. On a mostly-related note, you may find this editorial of interest: [ invalid url ] [Link]

Author

Post

Max Booty
Member

New Orleans
484 Posts
6/03

Posted - Dec 13 2007 : 9:15PM

I have been trying to log onto Five Star DVD for a couple of days now and all I get is the enter screen, followed by another enter screen followed by a we-are-doing-a-15-minute-system-maintenence screen. Is anyone else getting this?

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Dec 13 2007 : 10:47PM

Five Star's business was found guilty in an obscenity trial in Arizona. I suspect they are being forced to shut their business down. I fully expect to see their site to switch to a message from the FBI or DOJ about the domain name being forfeited at some.
I do know for a fact that fivestardvd.com is out of business.

[Link]

Young Pup
New Member

3 Posts
6/06

Posted - Dec 22 2007 : 5:20PM

So what happens to their customers details? Are we in trouble? Sorry for sounding stupid. I allways found the service reputable.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Dec 22 2007 : 8:22PM

I wouldn't say you're in trouble. But the government did seize all of their servers, accounting records, purchase records, sales receipts, etc., etc. way back when the initial raid happened way before the trial ever started. I have no idea what happens to the website and all of the data that's been collected since the initial raid.

[Link]

pete123
New Member

4 Posts
5/07

Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 11:17AM

Does anybody know anymore ???. I would like to know what is going on.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 2:34PM

Do you have a more specific concern?
FiveStarDVD.com is out of business. The business was found guilty of selling obscene materials by a Federal Court in Arizona. The persecution (that's not a typo) ruined the lives of the owners of the company. Their brick and mortar video store is being sold to a former employee and the website is out of business. I have no idea why their website is still online. I suspect that it will be switched at some point to a DOJ "trophy" page.

[Link]

willywilly
Member

Activated Member
662 Posts
2/05

Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 3:34PM

You can get around that by going to
http://www.fivestardvd.com/new_release.asp
Looks like the newest is Dec. 5, and that's telling you something. :)
Try http://www.fivestardvd.com/forum
all spam - has been for ages.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 5:44PM

You can't add anything to your shopping cart. You can't place an order.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 9:01PM

I spent some time tonight reading through some of the court documents regarding the Five Star case. You can dig them up online if you know where to look. There were a ton of pre-trial motions. Some of them had to do with improper execution of the original search warrants. While it's true that the FBI did seize all of the customer records this seizure was not proper. The Feds were subsequently ordered by a Federal judge to return any improperly obtained data and to destroy any copies that might be in their possession.
I don't think that anyone needs to worry that the Feds are scrutinizing their porn purchasing habits based on Five Star's customer records. The Feds wouldn't need it anyway. The NSA has compiled a profile on you from snooping your credit card transactions and emails.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Dec 23 2007 : 9:16PM

All this stuff about Five Star really saddens me. Not many people know that Five Star was our very first advertising customer ever. Prior to their legal troubles due to the anti-porn folks put in place by BuschCo they were one of the top 3 outlets for adult DVDs anywhere on the internet. They were always a pleasure to work with.
I apologize that some my replies in this thread and previous threads about the case are rather abrupt and matter-of-fact sounding. Much of the way that this whole situation transpired with the case against them really piss me off. What happened to them is incredibly unfair on so many levels.

[Link]

Young Pup
New Member

3 Posts
6/06

Posted - Dec 24 2007 : 8:51AM

Thank you for the replies Mr Black. It annoys me that my personal data is in alien hands, they really should destroy them if they have shut the buisness down as a matter of obeying legality.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Dec 24 2007 : 9:42AM

I don't think the sentencing has happened yet. I should look that up. That's the only reason I can think of that the site is still online although not taking orders.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Dec 28 2007 : 1:19AM

BTW, the sentencing is scheduled for 1/21/2008.

[Link]

Ohri
Member

23 Posts
1/08

Posted - Jan 2 2008 : 7:38PM

If you check Wikipedia, they discuss the charges in the entry for Obscene:

In June 2006, the U.S. Federal government in the district of Arizona brought a case against JM Productions of Chatsworth, Calif. in order to classify commercial pornography that specifically shows actual semen being ejaculated as obscene. The four films that were the subject of the case are entitled "American Bukkake 13", "Gag Factor 15", "Gag Factor 18" and "Filthy Things 6". The case also includes charges of distribution of obscene material (a criminal act under 18 USC § 1465 - "Transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution") against Five Star DVD for the extra-state commercial distribution of JM Productions' films in question.
The case has been advanced to actual trial, which is scheduled to begin on October 16th 2007. At the first date of trial, the US DoJ has decided NOT to pursue the JM obscenity case any further, leaving the matter without resolution, possibly fearing the formal establishment of sperm showing sex films as a nationally legal protected material (declared as "non-obscene") if the trial was decided in favor of JM Productions.
While the US DoJ had decided to abandon its legal pursuit of the JM productions, U.S. District Court Judge Roslyn O. Silver has forced the legal case against Five Star DVD distributors to continue, whereby the legal classification of whether "sperm showing through ejaculation" is an obscene act and thus illegal to produce or distribute will be definitely answered in order to convict Five Star of being guilty of "18 USC 1465 - Transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution".
The jury found Five Star Video LC and Five Star Video Outlet LC were guilty of "18 USC 1465 - Transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution" for having shipped JM Productions' film "Gag Factor 18". However, the specific content in that film that the jury deemed to be actually fulfill the legal qualification of being "obscene" has not been specifically stated at this point.
Click to expand

(sorry for the grammar, but that's the way it's written on the Wiki site)
Long, but it explains what happened.

I found Five Star via an Anime forum eons ago, and while I probably ordered less than a half dozen DVDs from them over the years (my collection is minuscule so that comprises about 75% of it

), they were always quick, reliable and professional. I ended up coming to ADT because I couldn't figure out what the problem with the Five Star site was. I never would have guessed they were forced out of business. It's very, very sad.

It also bares a scary resemblance to Castillo vs Texas.
I hope the sentencing is a mere formality and that they won't face fines or jail time.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jan 3 2008 : 11:52AM

The Wiki is very inaccurate. The Government's case against JM was not dropped because of anything related to sperm coming from a penis. The initial raid of Five Star was botched by the Feds. Some of the evidence obtained in that raid was thrown out by the judge. Many motions later the DOJ had backed themselves into a situation where they had no evidence to connect JM to Five Star and ultimately had to drop the charges against JM. The legal motions had absolutely nothing to do with actual sperm spewing from actual penises. Aditionally, the case wouldn't have set a national precedent. It would have only applied to the Federal district that Phoenix is in.
Don't trust the Wikipedia.

[Link]

Ohri
Member

23 Posts
1/08

Posted - Jan 3 2008 : 9:30PM

Admonishment taken. I usually read Wikipedia with a grain of salt, but it was the only place I could find any information on the case, and a number of reference sites are actually lifting their reporting of the case from Wiki. Let's hear it for internet accuracy

.
Searching today I found:
Federal Grand Jury Charges Arizona And California Companies (Announcement)
The Indictment
I can't... well, I can believe that the DoJ wasted time on this. It's just very, very sad.

[o\|]
Knowing Five Star was found guilty, this is the most alarming:

Scary math to contemplate considering there were more than a dozen counts in the indictment.
Ah, just found this (in retrospect, duh! don't know why I didn't check AVN to begin with):
Phoenix Jury Finds JM's Gag Factor 18 Obscene (AVN)
If I'm reading correctly, they were found guilty of two counts.
To contemplate the worst case sentencing-scenario is depressing, so I'll just cross my fingers and check back on January 21st.

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 4 2008 : 5:17PM

WTF was in Gag Factor 18 that the pussies in Phoenix found so obscene. This is a fucking travesty and if you aren't enraged by this everyone on here should be. Fucking Nazis !!!!!!!!! Unfuckingbelievable. Sad? WTF is sad? You should be furious.
"Censorship is the first step towards dictatorship !" Honest Ed

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 4 2008 : 5:22PM

Good lord it's only a bj movie with gagging in it?
Holy fucking shit !

[Link]

Bill

All-Star Member

5334 Posts
6/00

Posted - Jan 4 2008 : 10:09PM

Charges against the individuals were dismissed. It was the two companies that were found guilty. So, I don't think that this will be a matter of anyone going to jail. It will likely be a matter of fines and the companies going out of business.

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 5 2008 : 4:28PM

^ That's a very appropriate avatar. Did 5 star have adult industry legal representation or local lawyers?

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 5:13AM

This has been coming ever since 2000. They had intended to go after porn much sooner and more aggressively and they would have except for 9-11. But fear not. They still have about a year. And maybe more.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 5:29AM

And furthermore - Don't blame Bush and friends. Blame your friends and neighbors who voted for the bastards. They were warned and they either wanted it to happen, didn't care or they didn't listen.
I'm outraged but I'm absolutely not surprised in the slightest. Nobody should be. If you're surprised, you haven't been paying attention.
Edited by - randomprecision on 1/6/2008 5:31:24 AM

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Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 10:23AM

They had excellent adult industry representation.

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 10:31AM

Again my question. What in the DVD did the jury find so obscene. There are tons of videos just like it out there I imaging. That could be a real problem.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 10:48AM

Obscenity doesn't work that way. It's not like they can say at 33:45 into the movie such and such occurs. This act is obscene. I'm too lazy to look up the exact text at the moment but the law essentially requires the jury to consider the whole work and not just specific portions.
Sure there are tons of movies like this but there's no silver bullet for the prosecution to now go after every movie that depicts sex act X. It doesn't work that way.

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 10:55AM

Well at least a small ray of hope I guess. I just am in total shock.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 3:20PM

Simple answer - Sex. More specifically - Hardcore sex.
Plain old sex is obscene to these people. Of course, it probably doesn't help that this appears to have been one of those gagging titles but this particular jury would have likely found anything that contained hardcore sex to be obscene. That's likely why the feds chose to file the charges in that particular area. They do it where they think they have the best chance of winning. I have no idea how they came to that conclusion but it looks like they did their homework. It's very likely that the prosecution worked as hard as they could to get the biggest prudes in the country on that jury.
I keep repeating this but it's worth repeating it again. In a country where plain old fucking is obscene, it doesn't matter what's in a video. Not that much, anyway. The main reason they went after it is because it's porn. The secondary reason was simply because they could. The time and the political climate was right. They'll go after anyone they think they can get a conviction on. These guys didn't do anything wrong, per se. Nothing except sell adult movies in an area of the country where people won't stand up for other people's rights. That's all it takes.
Edited by - randomprecision on 1/6/2008 3:30:40 PM

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 6 2008 : 4:03PM

Oddly enough, it seems the same jury acquitted them on charges for a couple of other videos. That's if I'm getting the facts straight. Which, really, is kinda irrelevant since one conviction is all they needed anyway.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 2:57AM

Yes, you have the facts straight. Other videos that included hardcore sex were not deemed obscene when the community standards of Phoenix were considered.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 12:40PM

The only thing I can figure, then, is that those particular people were simply offended by that particular video more than the others. I don't see how they could determine precisely what the community standards of Phoenix are when no community has a "community standards handbook".
And for that matter, since the only people in Phoenix (or anywhere else) who are going to see any of these videos are people who ordered them and paid for them. Stands to reason those people want to see them. Assuming they're not an undercover FBI agent with apparently nothing better to do post-9-11 than investigate people for having genitals.

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 12:54PM

I have way too many questions to ask about this. Was the fact that the internet is in every community mentioned and that you have access to way more stuff than was on the video? What idiots were sitting on the jury. Old folks retired. Bible thumpers, left wing or right wing lunatics or as I suspect just simple retarded people that don't know where they shit last? Is an appeal in the process? I am reminded of the following poem by Martin Niemöller.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
"Censorship is the first step towards dictatorship !" Honest Ed

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 1:13PM

I haven't been able to find any information on the jury or the jury selection process. I believe there were 8 women and four men. So maybe that tells you something. Basically, it appears the prosecution nuked them. That is, they filed so many charges against them that they were bound to get a conviction. It's SOP for prosecutors these days. If a guy robs a bank, they don't just charge him with robbing a bank (Even though that charge alone would be sufficient to send him up for a long time). They charge him with everything that's applicable. Obviously, just in case he's acquitted of some of the other charges. They don't tend to bring charges unless they think they have a case.....somewhere. Juries tend to take their role seriously. People like to feel important. Thus, if they're following the law, if the defendant actually did what they were charged with, they have little choice but to convict. Which still doesn't excuse the fact that you shouldn't even be able to charge people with obscenity for something like this.
Edited by - randomprecision on 1/7/2008 1:15:54 PM

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Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 1:20PM

Here's something else to ponder: the videos were shipped to Virginia not Phoenix.
The lack of a community standards handbook is precisely one of the reasons why obscenity cases are so difficult to prosecute and defend.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 2:24PM

Yeah. I noticed that. Kinda weird. You'd think they'd have prosecuted the case in Virginia since that's where the video was actually going. How can someone seeing an "obscene video" in Virginia violate community standards in Phoenix? I guess it's because Phoenix is where they were based. Or maybe the Virginia authorities weren't cooperative?

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 3:19PM

The crime was distribution. The "distributing" happened in Phoenix.

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RFrog
Member

396 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 6:43PM

I can offer some sympathies to the FCC for enforcing standards because of the public airwaves.
But, who cares about DVDs or pay-per-view? What people want to see in their private homes should be their business.
If the DOJ is going to prosecute porn companies, I have to ask, "Who is the victim?"
If the DOJ feels that the performers in the video are "victims", well let them try to form a case.
Going after child pornographers is one thing. But these performers are legal adults who have chosen to participate in these videos.
Who's the victim? As long as these DVD movies are viewed by consenting adults in private, what's the crime?
Fight the power!

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 7:42PM

Their thinking seems to be that the community is the victim. Victim of what would probably be a more accurate question. I always say people have every right to be offended. They have no right to expect others not to offend them, however. The easiest thing in the world to do is to look away or simply mind your business.

[Link]

Bill

All-Star Member

5334 Posts
6/00

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 7:49PM

But based on that logic, shouldn't Jeff Steward & JM have been tried in Chatsworth? That's where they did the "distributing" (allegedly).

[Link]

mrhector
Senior Member

5084 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 8:52PM

Since I don't want my buying history to fall into unwelcome hands, I guess I need to buy from etailers in states that are more tolerant.
Which states are the coolest about this issue ?
Or should I start buying my vids from the Netherlands ???

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 9:24PM

If you have a local brick and mortar, why not just do all your adult business in cash? No paper trail at all.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jan 7 2008 : 9:28PM

Maybe, but the DOJ couldn't prove that JM sold or shipped the DVDs to Five Star. That's why the charges were dropped ultimately against them.

[Link]

RFrog
Member

396 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 12:06AM

I spoke to a "source" today. He told me that he used to work for a porn distributer and the shipping office supervisor told him DO NOT send product to these particular states. (He told me the states, but I forgot.)
Is this an FTC issue? I'll have to re-read the court papers.
The sights and sounds of human... um... fornication... can be a touchy subject. When did modern humans become uneasy or embarrassed about public displays of sex?
I suspect it's psychological. Many married or committed couples enjoy seeing each other naked, but they may feel violated when others see them. For example, they may totally enjoy having sex with each other in their backyard, but they freak when they see the neighbor staring at them over the hedge. One could argue, that's normal. Perhaps there's a psychological need for modern humans to keep their sex private. I can understand a citizen advising their government, "I don't want to take a stroll through the public park and find two couples fornicating by the picnic tables!!!"
Where does one draw the line? I'm not sure. What about public kissing? Can a woman give her boyfriend a lap dance (fully clothed) in a public park or is that too sexual and, thus, obscene?
I understand citizens telling their government that they don't want to walk their kids to school and see a billboard advertising naked, fornicating people.
But, what about the privacy of the bedroom? If the content is on video to be played in private where the public can't see or hear it, is there a crime? Who's the victim? The community is the victim? How can the community see it or hear it, if it's behind closed doors? If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[Link]

five_star
Five Star DVD

Tempe, AZ
167 Posts
11/99

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 1:13AM

I’m reluctant to post here because we still have a sentencing hearing next month however I wanted to make a few quick comments.
The government invested a significant amount of resources to convict us. There were numerous FBI agents, an obscenity task force and several federal prosecutors all focused on putting us in prison and shutting down our company.
It’s frightening how powerful the government can be when they set their sights on someone. We fought like hell but the government has unlimited resources and ultimately they succeeded in financially crushing us and shutting down our business. Fortunately we had an outstanding legal team lead by Jeffrey Douglas. Without Mr. Douglas' brilliant legal work it’s almost certain that we’d be facing prison sentences and felony convictions. We consider that a major victory.
By the way, our only crime was distributing, to adult customers, movies that showed consenting adults having sex. No children, rape or animals were involved.
Right now in this country we’re beginning the process of choosing our next president. Please remember that if you enjoy exercising your right to watch adult movies, the current administration doesn’t share your enthusiasm. If we continue to elect leaders who don’t respect citizen’s rights then we’ll continue to get more of the same - including obscenity prosecutions and spying on citizens.
Ken Graham
Five Star DVD

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 3:05AM

I'm surprised to find this is news to so many.
I'm also surprised how many americans seem to have a poor grasp of their own laws. I don't agree with the obscenity laws in the US, but as they exist (just google it, they are built on several rulings not just one) this case is legit unfortunately, and anyone could see it coming, although I'm sure Five Star put up a good fight and it could have gone the other way.
The Feds have failed in most modern obscenity cases because, contrary to RP's view, most jurors (women included RP) aren't offended by the sight of a man and woman fucking, in one case a conversative southern jury even found a film with a gang bang scene with Vanessa Del Rio to not be obscene.
But S/M has always been misunderstood by the general public and abuse-oriented porn like JM presented the perfect target for an obscenity case because it is so extreme.
Certainly this doesn't bode well for Max Hardcore's case, unless he can slip through on a technicality like JM did here.
Edited by - BlackSix on 1/8/2008 3:07:13 AM

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Bandit One
Deactivated User

No Place That Far
612 Posts
9/02

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 3:23AM

Nevermind- found what I was lookin for.

Edited by - bandit one on 1/8/2008 3:30:53 AM

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 3:33AM

'Community standards' are not defined in law, they are decided on by a jury in part by using the Miller Test. Vague? Hell yeah, thank your supreme court for that.
In general, the southern states are seen as good hunting grounds for obscenity case, in particular places like Florida. Ohio and Iowa and Boston are probably not to be considered safe either.
Possession of 'obscene' material by your common citizen is not usually a concern; distribution, sale and production is what the Feds are interested in prosecuting. Possession of kiddy porn is the only material that would put one in line for charges.
Busting people for distribution is usually the easiest case to make, that's why I think 5 Star was left holding the bag for JM.
Edited by - BlackSix on 1/8/2008 3:34:07 AM
Edited by - BlackSix on 1/8/2008 3:37:39 AM

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 9:31AM

Again I "internet"

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Ohri
Member

23 Posts
1/08

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 12:46PM

So I'm guessing no appeal.

Understandable since in the 30+ years since Miller v. CA the Supreme Court has made a habit of refusing to hear these types of cases. Simply translated: you'll give the shirt off your back to take it to the highest court, and they won't deign to listen.
I will definitely keep my fingers crossed for you guys. I wish you the best.

We don't even have a good grasp of our own geography, you thought we'd know the law?

Truth of the matter is, unless you have an RSS news feed for ADT and AVN, something like this will fly under the radar. I knew nothing about Five Star's legal troubles until I tried their site a couple of weeks ago and kept getting the "maintenance" notice. It was only after searching ADT that I discovered their trial was pretty much over and done with. The reason I have any knowledge of Castillo v. Texas is because I'm an Anime & Manga fan.
Most people - including fans - will remain blissfully ignorant until it affects them directly.
c'est la vie

The heart of the problem is that there is no universal standard. By allowing each community to define their own definition of obscenity you open the floodgates for prosecution, since what may pass with flying colors in one area will be considered verboten in another.
If Five Star had been tried in my hometown (Sodom & Gomorrah, aka NYC) I'd wager the outcome would have been much different.

[Link]

Kensington Chapp
Senior Citizen

Mine is the biggest.
610 Posts
7/07

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 2:08PM

What do you mean when you say "they still have a year" ?

I really shouldn't be here

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 4:03PM

Does anyone know the status of this ?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070714/ai_n19372477
"Censorship is the first step towards dictatorship !" Honest Ed

[Link]

Ohri
Member

23 Posts
1/08

Posted - Jan 8 2008 : 6:50PM

According to the DoJ site, the latest news on the case is this:

From AVN:

Why the DoJ wastes time and taxpayer money on this is beyond me. From the names alone I can guess these are videos I'd have absolutely no desire or interest in seeing, much less purchasing, but if adults consented to make it and adults consented to buy it, it's no skin off my back. To paraphrase Voltaire, I may disapprove of what you watch, but I will defend your right to watch it.
On a mostly-related note, you may find this editorial of interest:
[ invalid url ]

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