@mharris127 I hope you're right about where the folks producing the porn are financially. All I know for sure is what I see from my side of the equation, and that tells me that the sales are off from where they were. At the very least, they've been forced to lower their prices but haven't found a way to lower their production costs except to pay the talent less. From a talent perspective, consider that the stuff we shoot often gets rolled from one website to another and then a DVD and then maybe a compilation or two and we don't see an extra cent from those. This means that the works produced are likely more profitable in many ways than a traditional media product because there's no residuals to worry about, so yes, there's probably a lot that could be done. I think the main problem is in HOW the works are distributed. If producers were to begin delivering all digitally, the extra cost of manufacturing DVDs (from rendering to box art to shipping) would go away and hopefully lower the price for consumers without disrupting profit margin. You're dead on about my basic business classes. You can't get an art degree without a few of those these days and I like math, so... :) @Algaliarept First, a confession: My knowledge here is specific to the mainstream DVD industry and it's all second-hand, but I promise it's rock solid. That said, CDs and DVDs are two totally different animals. Yes, they look the same, but the costs of making one are not the same as the other. For one, DVDs require a licensing fee to the holders of the technology patent. There's also a lot more computer programming involved in making a DVD (title screens, menus, etc). That said, the costs have been dropping, and DVDs are now selling dirt cheap, especially in the face of Blu-Ray and various digital technologies. The music industry has been fucking with us for ages and has lost several price fixing lawsuits in the past, but the home movie market is falling apart and remaking itself as we speak. Amazon is also NOT the same thing as a regular retailer. If there's a beast out there that can kill the big box monsters like Best Buy and Wal Mart, it's going to be an internet retailer. When they charge a minimum fee to open a small online storefront, and have millions of people doing it, they can afford to sell stuff at a loss. So, in a sense, yes, they are loss leading because they want you to click on their site the next time you want a big screen instead of driving out to a brick and mortar store, and they can afford to take even more of a loss on this stuff than the big boxes can. Hope that makes sense...
To be honest, since graduating I've been doing mostly occasional commissions for friends. I'm only now getting to the point where I'm starting to do my own stuff, so thank you for the info. I want to put together something different than what my last gallery show was like because life has changed quite a bit since I was a fresh and quiet college grad a year ago. When I've got something to show though, I'll definitely follow up on this though!
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Apr 23 2010 : 6:27AM
Please, a study provided by a Norwegian business school? Online studies are inherently flawed statistically they are meaningless. Might as well do a man-on-the-street poll, that would have as much legitimacy.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Apr 23 2010 : 8:27AM
Again, I see an assertion, but no real evidence to back it up...
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Apr 23 2010 : 8:39AM
You mean that you don't know that polls have to be a statistically significant selection of the population across a variety or ages, races and classes? Really?
I'm reading the comparisons between Porn and the Music Industry, and there's one glaring point that everyone seems to be missing. Porn is largely seen as a 'consumable' product, rather than a collectible with replay value. Of course, not ALL Porn, but I think we can all agree by far most of it. While I've heard "Dark Side of The Moon" maybe a million times in my life, I've seen "Pirates" twice, and only because I sat thru the R-Rated version out of curiousity. The Business of Porn and the Business of Music might have similear struggles, but I think it's a mistake to think they are similear products. - Mark Maddy G Productions
See what happens. I am not going anywhere and good-luck. I hope you can break in and get the work that you want. Its just tough right now for almost every performer I talk to. I have never seen it this bad. Well known porstars arent even getting work. Start working on your website !!
It is a vicious cycle no doubt. But I think that my point is that this industry is not going to make the margins and profits they did 10 years no matter how much output they do to make up the difference. And as for oversaturation, I agree. Your label is probably my favorite b/c you make the porn I want to see and the girls seem to love working with you. I always pick up a new title from you to at least "add to my list" for finding at *my* price: $20 and under. Keep up the good work.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Apr 23 2010 : 11:35AM
It's a question of scale... There's a difference however between a poll done for these purposes, and say one done as scientific research... I think your position is sort of akin to criticizing someones spelling in a chat room....The real mistake is to treat a personal anecdote as evidence... And well, if Porn is more consumable, then doesn't that suggest its intrinsic value is less? There's a poll... What has more value... the porn, or the tissue that catches yer jizz.... LOL
I'm thinking that in a diminished market of limited bookings for less money, the girls that get the gigs are the ones that are willing to step it up a notch sexually. I think we can expect to see a lot of anal shy cuties crack open their asses for us to enjoy as a way to get paying gigs. We should see a resurgence in cumfarting, a2m and asskimo pies. As Bob Marley would say, "When one door closes, another will open".
@ PornLaw: Why don't producers/companies sue the sites that carry pirated material? Would it make any difference? @ClaraBeau: When I buy a DVD and watch the BTS, often they will show photoshoots of "pretty girl" pics being done with the stars of the DVD. Do the performers get paid additional money for the photoshoot or is that considered part of the scene and thus included in that pay? Just curious, thanks.
Very few companies properly protect their material through copyright or use work for hire agreements when directors/videographers/editors work on the film. Further it is also costly. The average copyright lawsuit will cost a studio $100,000.00 in legal fees easily -- probably closer to $250,000.00 with experts and other litigation related expenses. And there are cases that could go beyond half a million. Edited by - pornlaw on 4/23/2010 10:28:30 PM
I am not Clayra, but my understanding is that the photo shoot is covered in the fee that the model charges. Some companies allow the model to use the pictures on her site, though -- with limitations, of course.
Nope, mharris is correct that sometimes we'll be given permission to use the pics for portfolio/promotional use, but it's part of what we're getting paid for as a package.
Torris wrote: You know what killed Sam Goody and Tower Records: $18.99 plus tax. Ridiculous to adhere to such a greedy pricing sceme: it practically begs that your customers go online and either buy individual songs or steal it from limewire. If Tower, (which by the end had become as homogenous in their selection as any boring Best Buy) had dropped their retail prices to $9.99 they would still be around. Ultimately people felt that $20 for a CD that cost pennies to produce was a rip off and that they weren't going to lose any sleep over finding a way to get it free. I think of that sometimes whenever I go into a porn store and see titles that are only for sale being listed at $39.95. I'm never going to pay that full fare for a porn disk. And I don't steal porn, but like in music, I keep lists and troll til I find what I want used ________________________ I had to respond to his post which hinted at somebody not understanding the big picture. The music industry is no longer spending the amount of artist development money today that they once used to routinely spend because the return is not there anymore and there is much less emphasis on taking a 'risk' on a new artist because of dwindling sales. I think your comment about music CDs costing pennies and the record companies being 'greedy' is a bit ridiculous. Let me explain. Yes the physical disc might cost mere pennies (actually mere dimes) but those same record companies would loose money when you factor in the amount of cash poured into creating new acts because 90% of the acts they developed back in the day failed so they had to charge a set rate for wholesale CDs in order to keep investing money into risky new artists. Porn movies sell FAR less units than a mainstream copy of anything so the financial return although much less must still make sense otherwise the production of new movies will cease as would any other business venture. We as producers have very little to do with what the retail price will be on a finished movie either online or in a store. There are only a few companies that can still hold a high wholesale price on their movies which dictates that the store must pump that retail price up an extra ten bucks or so and the rest of us must sell them for what is acceptable to the buyers meaning that our movies can retail for around $25 or so. If any of those record companies and retail stores back in the day would have lowered the retail price on CDs as you suggest to $9.99 there would have been a lot less new artists created or discovered. Remember, when people talk about 'greedy artists' the vast majority of them never earned more then 15% of the price of a record unless they were a proven superstar. I can see where many would then think the record labels were 'greedy' but they have to protect their investments. Yes some of the labels made a ton of money in the great years but they were entitled to it because they took massive risks developing talent. That is exactly what we are starting to see in the adult movie business. Because of declining sales (Economy AND pirating) there will be a lot less new movies of quality being produced and many less new stars created for your jack-off moments. We are in a transition for sure and I am going along for the ride but still trying to create quality movies which by the way still cost a lot of money to produce. You can only trim so much before your project looks like shit. Feel free to check us out at www.sitcums.com BTW: I agree with Mike Quasar
First off, thanks to all who answered my previous questions, your responses were quite informative. Second, if I may expose my ignorance further, I was never an economics type, and I always wondered how it works when I buy a porn DVD. Namely, if I buy a porn DVD from an internet retailer, how does the company that makes it get money? Do they get payments periodically, a summation of their cut of sales of their merchandise, or do they only get paid when the retailer goes out of stock on an item and orders more (and therefore the retailer also would have paid for the initial shipment of goods)? I would appreciate any light that could be shone on the matter. PS. Since the music industry has been brought up tangentially here, does anyone know how/when bands get residuals? Say if I were to go to Amazon right now and buy Judas Priest's "British Steel" on CD, would they soon get a check (or electronic payment) for some quintilla of the price?
Aligarept, I would assume that it is similar to the TV show/mainstream movie industry, residuals come once a month on the sales in the second prior month. For example, in March you would receive January's residuals.
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Bluto Deactivated User
511 Posts 3/09
Posted - Apr 30 2010 : 8:59AM
A collapse of the music industry would make the streets much nicer! Ever hear the absolute crap booming out of cars?
Porn industry's loss has been the (whore) mongers' gain. Lot of pornstars are now escorting to make money and those that were already escorting before have lowered their prices. If you got cash to burn its a great time but not many have cash to burn.
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Jan 8 2011 : 10:22AM
Is this post serious? Have you read the countless horror stories from well known musicians artists who've been cheated by the record industry with their abysmal profit sharing agreements over the years? And most artists make far less then 15% per record. And it's well known to most that the record industry is motivated primarily by greed, and nothing more. That is the curse of any profit making enterprise. Eventually in time, whatever motives (however high minded) that previously existed that lead to the production of a product, they fall away and profitability will ascend to becoming the primary motive. Also the music industry isn't spending as much as they used to on musician development because they don't believe they have to. They find a trend, for example, Pop Music for young women, find or create, the best selling artist in the genre (e.g., Britney Spears), and clone her year after year after year. Which is why many pop musicians look alike and sound alike. What they don't do is invest time and money in new artists and new musical sounds, because for the aforementioned reason their only motive is money not music. And so it is with the industry as well.
