^Who's the punk though? The guy who needs that stuff to get off? Or the girl who wants a career in porn, but ends up having to do breathplay/BDSM gangbangs because there seems to be more of a market for it than just plain old fucking? I'd say she probably deserves your pity more. (And yes, I know she gets paid for it... but that doesn't mean she wouldn't prefer a much easier day at work if she could have it.)
^ I am talking about dudes who want to see a certain group of people "degraded" or "demeaned" because they don't have the balls to deal with these kinds of people in real life. I'm not the kind of man who comes home, wanting to see somebody get raped or "defiled" on television, thinking to myself "If only this would happen to my supervisor at my 9-to-5 job", simply because I don't have the balls to confront them. I'm not talking about the people who engage in this kind of "acting" in pornographic flicks. Besides, KillBill, these women know what they're getting themselves into most of the time. If they don't wish to perform these types of acts, all they have to do is walk away or simply say "no". For every porn starlet who engages in this kind of thing, there's another who "don't play that"! Sports commentator Stephen A. Smith once said "We live in a society today where women objectify themselves. Men don't do that to you, YOU do that to you. Where's your accountability?" Edited by - Long Noel on 9/16/2008 5:14:52 PM
While I'm sure there are girls that do it for the money and nothing but the money, again you have your Annette Schwartz types who not only get off on it, but quite frankly are the driving forces of those scenes. When I see her at "work" I don't think "poor her" as much as "those guys probably needed medical aid afterwards." Then again, I don't watch shit like Meatholes and prefer my stars to be maneaters, leaving a path of destruction in their wake. And there's a difference between "wanting" to see it and "needing" to see it. If you "need" it you may want to take a look at yourself.Now that's a valid comparison to Storytelling because it's about power, especially with Justin Slayer who's signing their check.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars 456 Posts 2/03
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 10:55AM
Please name any three Justin Slayer movies as example?[Mod edit: Nevaquit, crop that shit! Copying the first half of DarkPlaces' post, which was about something entirely different, just made it confusing. So I cropped it for you.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/17/2008 1:59:46 PM
"Black Pipe Layers 5" (In Tera Joy's scene, Slayer has Tera Joy repeat after him, saying this is "Nigga shit!") "Big Booty Revenge" (I could have swore I heard Lauren Phoenix say that word in the BTS footage. I may be wrong and she probably said something that sounded too close to it...) These are the only two that I can think of at this moment, where the ladies get to use the word...
I know who you're talking about. And while I think they're losers, I don't know how much pity I have for them necessarily. Maybe I ought to have more... but I don't.Again, I know. This is why I provided the little disclaimer in brackets in my post about how I know the girl is getting paid for it, she willingly signed up for it, etc... but that doesn't mean she was looking forward to getting choked unconscious when she woke up that morning. Pretty much everyone agrees to do stuff they don't want to do at work. But that doesn't mean they walk away from their job. And it also doesn't mean I can't feel bad for someone when they're doing the shitty part of their job, and wish that they could have things a bit easier. I wasn't being all "Oh no! Save the porn girls!". I was just saying that, with a few exceptions, most girls would probably find it a lot easier to do some vanilla fuck scene with one or two guys than a full-on slapping, choking, double anal gangbang. I know they signed up for it, but I have a feeling most of them would put it down as being one of their tougher days on the job. And as a "friend of the workin' man" (or woman), I feel for them. That's all I'm saying. **********************************************************I agree with you on all of that. There certainly are the maneaters out there, and Annette is one of the best examples of a girl who, when I see her matched up with, say, ten guys, I think to myself: "Shit, those guys are gonna need some backup!" There are also the girls who do these scenes because they can't find enough work to do vanilla scenes every day. And I'm sure we've all seen a few of these scenes too (well, unless like you, DarkPlaces, we specifically seek out the maneaters). As I mentioned earlier in this post, it's those girls that I'm talking about feeling sorry for. Again, not because they're "poor, lost souls" or any shit like that; but because it's a tough day on the job, and nobody likes a tough day on the job. I'm not a porn star, but I've had a few jobs where I've definitely had to do things I would rather never do; but I did them anyway. They had to be done for the job, and I needed the job. That doesn't mean it didn't suck though. And if you said to me that night "Oh man, I feel for you. That sounds like it was a terrible day." I wouldn't say "Hey I knew what I was getting into, I don't need your pity." I would've said "Thanks man. I appreciate that. It was a terrible day. Hopefully tomorrow will be better. Now let's play some Rock Band so I can forget about it."Oh hell yeah. There are some fucked up people out there who "need" to see all sorts of things. Initially I got the impression that Long Noel was referring to those guys. In his second post, he clearly used the word "want", so I understand him better now. But whether we're talking about the guy who "needs" to see a girl get the shit kicked out of her, or the guy who "wants" to see it, my above comments remain unchanged. edited for width Edited by - heynow on 9/21/2008 11:50:24 AM
You most certainly do not speak for me. I did work for Spring Thomas, and was asked if it was ok with me to be called the "N" word. I flatly refused. No negotiating. Subject was closed. You will never find one frame of footage with me in it where I would allow it. Ever. If others choose to capitulate to the request for fear of loosing a paycheck, or actually like it, then that's on them. I'm not one to judge. Edited by - tyler knight on 9/18/2008 4:33:17 AM
Hello Ramsey. "Boyz N The Hood" was a groundbreaking masterpiece of American cinema, preserved by the Library of Congress in 2002 for its cultural signifigance, and studyed in film schools across the world. Spring Thomas is not. I'm not sure what you are getting at, however, John Singleton's Academy Award nominated screenplay does make liberal use of the "N" world, however, it serves to advance the exposition of the story, and certainly not gratuitous. In either event, my entire quote stated that I do not like those epitaths directed at me in porn, but I am not one to judge others. I hope this may clear up any ambiguity in my post. Edited by - Tyler Knight on 9/18/2008 3:46:57 PM
I could be wrong but you are an actor right and I don't see the problem if it's all an act? I mean I doubt Cleavon Little complained to Mel Brooks about being called the N-word in Blazing Saddles. Btw, didn't Chris Rock give us the famous Nigga Please phrase?
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Sep 18 2008 : 4:15PM
Ramsey, please you are trying to be too cute by half..
You dont have to see a problem with it. My comfort level of what I want to be called is not for you to decide, or subject to anyone elses approval but mine. Again...If anyone else wants to be lynched for real on film for "art" then thats on them. Whats good for someone else is NOT reflective of where my personal standard should be. How is that hard to comprehend? C'mon man, I thought you were being serious, so I took the time to write a thought out answer. (I hope you are just goofing around anyway, jeez.)
Goofing around? I actually thought you were goofing around being all politically correct while you have the most unpolitically correct job in the world!
I didn't mean to imply that I spoke for the entire race. Kudos to you for standing up for what you believe in and kudos to Spring for asking in the first place. I think when people like Spring use it her movies it also has artistic value. Its a bit of taboo that actually adds to the her scenes. I definitely would not knock guys that let her use the expletive during sexually aggressive scenarios. I'm sorry but I like my porn a little bit dirty. The most popular IR titles, black men are thugged out or primordial. Outside of porn, that is every bit as offensive to me as the N-word. Every porn actor has their boundaries or level of degradation. Some would refuse to work with blacks period. Are they racist? Maybe. Regardless its their choice.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Sep 20 2008 : 3:32PM
The Latin term for black is niger. Nigers, in America were, were whipped, lynched, raped, and stripped naked and sold like cattle or corn. The word has been sanctified by their suffering. It is sacred. It is not a word to be used cheaply. If you think the word hot or sexy, or just plain cool to say at least least [url=401312]learn something about it.Edited by - Clam Digger on 9/20/2008 3:33:50 PM
I don't see why it's such a big mystery why a black man (or woman) might have a problem with the N word. Even if the speaker doesn't mean it in the traditional sense. We've had so much trouble with racial issues in the past. It's such a sensitive subject you just can't be tossing those words around like they don't mean anything. For some people, obviously, they still hurt. If a black man doesn't have a problem with it, fine. But if he doesn't want to be presented that way, he has every bit as much right to refuse as a woman does to refuse to do anal.
Its hateful, its derogatory, and its offensive. But we are talking about porn here. Performances already outside the main stream. Censorship is a slippery slope. I don't agree that the word is any more pejorative than any other racially charged word. No I do not like being called a "nigger". I may get mad and loose my god damn mind. But in the end, its just a word that I refuse to empower or control me. It says more about the utterer (white or black) and does me. BTW, I am equally offended by the words/phrases like buck, porch monkey, spade, hershy, jungle bunny, spear chucker, coon, darky, boy, 8-ball, etc. All of which I heard on more than one occasion during my travels around this great country of ours.
I'm not advocating censorship. I'm just saying that if there's a particular performer who doesn't want to be portrayed that way, he has every right to refuse. He's not infringing on anyone's rights. He's just saying "I won't do that". Porn needs more performers who will demand that the industry respect their limits. It's good for the industry and it's good for the performers. A director who's determined to make racially charged porn will always find someone willing to do it. But I'd sure hate for performers to feel like they have to.
He's entitled to his opinion (though I agree with him on Chris Tucker; Rock comes equipped with intelligence and a point of view), but there's also the thought that the word has been co-opted by the very people it oppressed and before the eye-rolling begins, realize that there is not a white political or economic leader in this country who will not find himself out on his ass if caught using the word, so can anyone say that point of view is not without merit? Also, Chris Rock had stopped using it in his act until David Chappelle became the biggest comedian working and used it regularly and without apology. I was actually surprised to hear it from him in his last comedy special, not to mention saddened. Imagine a 40-year-old porn star getting a tattoo because she sees a hot 20-something star with one. That's what it amounted to. And again, we're taking the discussion out of context, which is its use in someone's sexual fantasy, which is what all porn is. I personally believe like any obscene language it can contribute to a scene. Tyler Knight (whom I like, though he seemed a little overwhelemed by the women in Chemistry) has every right not to do it, just as any woman refuses to perform certain acts. However, it doesn't mean those who do necessary have something wrong with them.
Well, in that case, silly me for giving you the benefit of the doubt comparing www.springthomas.com to an American cinematic masterpiece, "Boys N The Hood". I was giving you an easy out. You are not a troll. You honestly think you've made a stong argument. Bless your little heart.When Dave Chappelle did the Blackface Pixie Sketch, I swear to God I almost died laughing! Part of what makes comedey funny is it's relevancy to, and relateability to the target audience's real life. It's not a subtle sketch but it was spot fucking on GENIUS! DarkPlaces, I totaly agree...What I loved about D.C. is that he spoke his mind about race in his work, and didn't care about pissing people off, as long as he got people thinking. Lauhing was a bonus. True. Other comedians are "also rans". His audience discussions of his skits are great food for thought.
Accusing me of trying to be politicaly correct, or insinuating I temper my posts to be liked? Please. Let me help you out, here is my ENTIRE post (which you've had no response to but the last sentence). Try again. "You dont have to see a problem with it. My comfort level of what I want to be called is not for you to decide, or subject to anyone elses approval but mine. Again...If anyone else wants to be lynched for real on film for "art" then thats on them. Whats good for someone else is NOT reflective of where my personal standard should be. How is that hard to comprehend? C'mon man, I thought you were being serious, so I took the time to write a thought out answer. (I hope you are just goofing around anyway, jeez.)"
Well said indeed RandomPrecision. I certailnly do not look down upon, or begrudge performers that do things I will not. I am not responsibe for paying their bills. Also, who am I to judge what others may actually LIKE. Thats what makes America great. Our freedom to live lifes pleasures according to our own designs. In general, not just the "N" word issue, there are a lot of things I wont do on camera. Admittedly, it's easy for me to say "I won't do xyz" on camera now that I'm quite established. It's cost me p-l-e-n-t-y work in the beginning of my career (when I had the least financial luxury to be picky), but it's payed HUGE dividends for me over the long term. Although I'm very pleased with the course my career has taken as a result, career aside, I still wouldn't change a thing because I have to live with my choices. Self respect can't be bought, and it's true cost is seldom realised until it's lost. I only had to learn that lesson once. (Way before I did adult)
[blah]It's about time someone started another pointless thread addressing racism in porn! At last... a thread that will, once and for all time, end the deplorable outrage of starlets screaming "fuck me n*gger!" while getting drilled in the ass by 12" of black cock. And a thread that certainly won't degenerate into an insipid volley of counter-accusations of racism. Yay! Let's talk about this![/blah]
This thread is more about personal limits in porn than racism or censorship. Some black actors are ok with it some are not. Do you disparage those who refuse golden shower scenes? After all piss is infinitely less dangerous than semen.
It's porn. It's role play. It's fetish. It's fantasy. In that context I think the word should be allowed if the performers are okay with it. You can't automatically assume just because a person uses the word they're racist or see really see all black people in a particular light. In many cases they may just be playing a part or taking the fetish or fantasy to the next level. If you find the word distasteful or whatever that's fine but it's a word that carries different wieght with different people. The "homies" in the hood using the word is probably far different than the same word coming up in a boardroom meeting. For me it's all about context. In some instances it can be cruel and very disrespectful and even racist. In other instances it's a stupid word that gets used too often by stupid people trying to look/act cool. There are even times when it can be used to drive home a point or enlighten us to the absurdity of things. Again, it's all about context. My feeling is that some people give that word too much power. I also think that the word is fair game for white people to use (within the right context) as long as we have so many black people using it and attaching so many different meanings to the word.
Wow you must be well traveled, the only reason I know half of these is because my father has/had a shirt with all of them on it. I don't think the majority of blacks would be offended if they were called most of these words (other than the self explanatory ones) because they wouldn't know to be offended. Buck? Spade? Smoked Irishman? (I know that's not on your list. One of my white friends who is a screen writer asked if I would be offended by that and I answered the hell is a smoked Irishmen? Prior to Clerks II I'd be shocked if half the black population knew what a Porchmonkey is, and hell I think King of Spades is an awesome handle and I plan on putting it to use cus only a few people will get the joke. The bottom line in a lot of ways comes to the fact that I believe as many others do that this is a performance, and if you don't like it don't watch it. I didn't think I would like it but I was watching a scene with Annette Schwartz and a black man (Lex I think) and she looks up and begs him for more of that nigger cock and it was just the hottest thing ever. In my opinion, as long as it's not actually putting people in danger that you should be allowed to say what you want, when you want, how you want. If people disagree with you they will tune you out (or complain. Either way is fine.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Sep 21 2008 : 12:25PM
Well younster you probably never heard of lynching either. The old man wouldn't have a t-shirt laying around with a noose on it would he? Edited by - Clam Digger on 9/21/2008 12:33:23 PM
Never saw Clerks. I did travel quite a bit as a military brat than later as a soldier myself. I agree most will never use the terms to your face. I use to have really good friends who tell me what was be referred to behind closed doors. A perverted "word of the day" if you will. Offensive statements will always be out there. That's my point we can't let words consume us. Because at the end of the day they are just "words". Still must be vigilante because the words tend to accompany actions or intentions.
I'm with you that they are just words. My point was that half of the terms you mentioned were so rarely used that most people wouldn't know to be offended in the first place. I agree that people should be aware enough know what actions/intentions are going on around them but that's almost a different issue entirely. I mean I could use that attitude to justify gangster slang being taught in schools. (and it would probably be a bit more relavant) Also as a Marine I'm contractually obliged to say something deragatory about you as a soldier. But I can't think of anything particularly harsh to say right now so uh. . .good job.
Not so fast. The idea for the website that spawned Blackzilla was all Shane Diesel's idea. The website was My Daughter is fucking a N**gger, and that was 100% the brainchild of Shane.
Why do I think Black America flocked to Clerks II? Honest answer is I don't but it did gross 24 millionvs Bamboozled's limited damn near straight to home video response. Still I can't argue wether or not more black people have seen either movie. With DVD and shit I can't even truly prove that more people have seen Clerks 2 than have seen Bamboozled, or for that matter any other movie. So I could go round and round but since I doubt there has ever been a poll on this we'd just both be pulling info out of our asses. I'm curious though Tyler, since there is a difference between WE knew and I knew, by what logic do you think that the majority of black America is familar with these terms? I mean make it's a California thing and that I'm so far removed from the South that it simply isn't real to me but like I said the vast majority of racial slurs are so rarely used that I've never even used them. Granted some you can figure out on your own within the context (and maybe most Americans are way more racist than I give them credit for) but I hear people say "Call a spade a spade" all the time and I think the majority of them would avoid the phrase (even if the phrase outdates the slur) if they had the slightest idea that it could easily be interpeted as call a Nigger a Nigger. It's an out of date/regional slur. Like Smoked Irishman, I'm sure YOU'RE aquainted with every single slur in the books because everybody on the internet knows the difference between a Gable and a Gwielo. I seem to be the only person on the internet who's didn't complete college and take every elective ever. But then again maybe it's just that I live in Southern California. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs_by_ethnicity
I have never seen Clerks and I didn't know there was a sequel. I have spent considerable time in the south especially the Carolinas, Bama, and Mississippi. Believe me the terms are used and quite often. Especially in like company. I was rarely if ever addressed directly. Usually by over hearing conversation. If I only hear em by mistake, I can only extrapolate how often its used in their daily speech. 15 years ago I was heavy into scanning. My scanner could even pick up bandwidth used by cordless phones and cells. Its amazing what people say when they don't know a third party is listening.
Read my post again. I never stated that that I thought the majority of Black America are (or are not)familliar with those, or any terms. Someone else was making that argument, not I. What any group of people as a collective knows is beyond my, and your scope of knowledge, unless there is a scientific poll done. Neither of us have administered, or are likely capable of administrating such a poll. I was stating an objective fact that "Clerks II" by far is not the first time the phrase "porch monkey" has been used in recent pop culture, specificaly in the medium of modern film you used as your example. No more, no less. Regardless, your speculation as to what someone may or may not know, based on anything less than emperical data, not your opinion or speculation, does not make it so.
For the record, in order to keep me alive, or not chronicly incarcerated, my parents moved me from crime infested North Philly to Georgia (where they are originaly from). Later to the undeveloped farm/woodlands, and suburbs of New Jersey, where I was the ONLY Black kid in school for years. Eventually, I was transfered to a more intergrated school, and adjusted well enough to be elected to student council. I lost count on how many fights I've been in started by racial tension, or being called names, or assaulted as a kid, but the number is well north of 50. Beleive me when I say I've heard, and seen it all when it comes to racial slights, slurs, acts violence, short of lynching, tarring, and dragging. All I'm going to share on an internet forum is that I had serious anger (among other) issues. Those experiences have helped shape the man I am today, for better or worse. I can imagine I am by no means unique in my experience. All this goes back to the original poster's topic of why this porn star in particular won't be called racial names on film, but do not begrudge others for choosing to do so. Edited by - tyler knight on 9/24/2008 8:55:40 PM
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awall Deactivated User
58 Posts 8/08
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 5:47PM
T.knight, like i said before in this thread, i think if a girl has no problem working with black men, like so many of them do, i don't see the problem with the ones that don't, saying racist stuff. Spring thomas, the girl you worked with, use to get death threats for doing so many black guys. You did a scene with Penny Flame, that chick had no problem banging any guy put in front of her for 6 years, as long as he wasn't black. I mean she did a ton of asians and latinos. Claimed she loves black men, but blacks were the only thing she wouldn't touch for years. And hell, even that scene happened by mistake. She was acting like it wasn't a big deal but wouldn't let a black guy touch her for years. I personally wouldn't have done a scene with that girl if i were you, it was kinda demeaning. I mean i see you, tee teel, julius seezher, marcus, mandingo, lex and other black performers actually hanging out with girls who refuse to do scenes with you because you're black. They will do scene with any race but black. That's worse to me than a little acting sex scene with an open minded girl. You should have let spring do it because she rocks. She is the greatest I.R. performer of all time.
Edited by - awall on 9/25/2008 5:52:19 PM Edited by - awall on 9/25/2008 5:52:43 PM
1) The work in Chemistry 4 (who would work with whom) was mapped out before anyone arrived on set. The cast was 100% selected upon the mutual request of all performers involved. There were no "accidents". It's called CHEMISTRY FOR A REASON! And it was two scenes, not 1 by the way, the second lasting the better part of 4 hours of non stop filming. (Who knows what actually made it into the final cut). 2) You N-E-V-E-R saw me hang out with any people in porn. Ever. In 7 years, I went to only one porn related event. That was a very small release "party" 2 weeks ago. Anyone who knows me will say I am a recluse, and I don't even go to AVN Awards shows to get my awards. 3) I could give a rats ass about the descisions, and consequences of others from doing or not doing interacial, as I've stated before. Spring made her bed, as I've made mine in life.4) I don't feel like dignify this idiotic statement with a new response. In case you've missed it posted twice on this thread: "You dont have to see a problem with it. My comfort level of what I want to be called is not for you to decide, or subject to anyone elses approval but mine. Again...If anyone else wants to be lynched for real on film for "art" then thats on them. Whats good for someone else is NOT reflective of where my personal standard should be. How is that hard to comprehend?"
I've enjoyed many scenes from GhettoGaggers. I'm not into black guys, but I have a weird thing for black girls and a penchant for really hard oral, so it works for me, and many of the scenes have the 'feel' of the 'racist' attitude being referenced here, but I think only because it's white guys on black girls. The oral abuse is hard and the dialog is usually degrading, but never specifically racially pointed, at least not from the scenes I've watched. You're right Duke, your stuff does work, and in a way that's hard to put your finger on. I think the 'abuse' genre gets a bad rap from alot of people (many fans included) because they forget about the girl involved, and the very real fact that many woman (like myself) actually enjoy it. But that's probably a point for another thread. - Marie Marie Madison Media
Angel Anthology: Angela White, The - review by bono-one
Posted - Sep 16 2008 : 2:48AM
