then there's the often discussed unwritten porn rule that doing interracial can affect a girl's potential earning power down the road. Guess this involves the feature dancing biz.

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• They don't want to hurt their families of friends.
  


• They can't tour the South or other inhospitable and backward regions of out fine country ('Merica) if they do interracial.

On the other hand, I don't deny that boyfriends of SOs don't influence a girl's decision, but, again, I doubt it's a matter of size, as if size matters. We savvy, street smart New Yorkers don't worry about it, but even here you find resistance. I have a male friend who dated a black chick for about 5 years. I showed him some stuff with Lex and Shyla I think, which I d/l'ed from a newsgroup. You know what he said? "Oh I don't want to see that shit!" I said: "You dated a black girl for 5 years!!" He said: "That doesn't count." I didn't pursue the issue.

The Philosopher

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What I do find sometimes upsetting is that there is certainly stereotyping and racial"humor"rampant in the industry.Any time you have an asian girl,apparently it's ok to talk about them on the box cover as "Rice Queens","Gook whores""Slant eyed bitches"any number of derogatory stereotypes.Perhaps that's just the nature of the idiots who make the porn,not a reflection of the whole industry.I can't imagine the fans DEMANDING that treatment-"Dear sir,I love this new girl you featured Mimi Miyagi,she is very beautiful and elegant,but next time could you please introduce her as a slant eyed ho?Thank you"

Maybe it's the nature of some porn that is juvenile,where these tired attitudes and "humor"are allowed.What about the recent Tight&Asian2,where Jon Dough sets up Lyla Lei with a vision test and tries to blindfold her with a piece of dental floss?hahahahha,so fucking tired.And I won't even get into the more misogynist attitudes displayed by Khan Tusion,Bangbus,Chico(sorry bro,get off your high horse!)and such.

Oh,and Nietzche,I'm not too brite,what does tergiversating mean?

Edited by - Murray Head on 9/7/2003 5:05:03 PM

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The Philosopher

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Re: the "interracial and the South" idea...I think that's just an old wives' tale. Most African-Americans live in the South, and they compose the largest minority. Interracial marriages in the South are rising exponentially every decade--cuz that's where the Black folk are (duh). I mean, it's not like white women are sucking black dick on stage. In addition, only stalkers would work themselves up enough to A)Keep track of the races of all the people a dancer performed with and B) cause a scene about this in a club, where he would very likely be summarily ejected. Such psychopathic personalities can exist anywhere. What I want to hear about from the performers who read ADT is this: have you ever been hassled in a club because of your performances with someone of another color?

I absolutely do not doubt that some performers on Stern have said what they said, but it could very well be that they were parroting some old-school agent who doesn't realize that times have changed since the 80's. Besides, if you've done interracial, why would the owner of the KKKit Kat Klub of Goddam, Alabama invite you in the first place?

Edited by - SueR on 9/8/2003 3:40:58 AM

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Edited by - SueR on 9/8/2003 1:02:59 AM

I always find it amusing when someone tries to pin the blame for America's racism squarely on the South especially people from L.A. You'd be hard pressed to name a city in the U.S. with worse race relations. I live in the South and black people always tell me they encounter more racism outside of the South than in it. There's more segregation in the North too. Ever been to Detroit?

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First off, some of the "tree-hugging" liberals in this forum need to relax and chill out. Whenever the R word (and that's racism, for some of you less scrupulous individuals) gets brought up, people start popping up from out of the wood-work to fight for causes they really have no knowledge on. Having said all this, I quickly want to say as a disclaimer that I like all the regulars in this forum, so don't take what I say personally.

Now, on to BigBang and his question on race relations in porn. Is there racism in society? YES. Is there racism in porn? YES. Is there reverse racism in society? YES. Is there reverse racism in porn? YES(and I'm sure there are people who will argue with me on this, but I'm about to expand on my opinion, so hold on and breath deeply ).

You have to remember something when you talk about this issue: the porn world does not live inside a vacuum. They are real people, just like us, and if a white female performer doesn't wanna fuck a guy b/c of his color, that's her choice. I'm not gonna get into the moral aspect of it, but it's her choice.

Also, you have to look at it from the business standpoint(the only standpoint that really matters). I don't have exact figures, but I don't have to be a genius to tell you that the break down of porn performers is decidedly more white than black. Well, keeping that in mind, think about this:what if black performers don't want to work with white people? I mean, people, everyone here is talking about racism in porn, but did anyone ever stop and look at it from a different standpoint. If you're a black male performer, and you don't want to work with white women, well guess what, you're most likely up shit creak(without paddle)! I'm not looking to make a huge point here, but I'm just illustrating how the uneven racial breakdown in performers changes who certain people are willing to work with.

I'm sure I'll take a little abuse for the way I feel on this issue(especially the tree-hugger comment), but I stand by my opinions. I guess race relations is a really touchy subject for some people, for some reason. I like the fact that the people in this forum are cool enough to have a discussion about this issue without flipping out at each other for the way they feel. Let me know what you think.

Later.

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Why is it acceptable to call Asian women pornstars gooks and chinks? That is UNACCEPTABLE!!!

I know -- bow about we start a line of porn bideos called Nappy Haired Ghetto Nigger bitches!??!? How about "Border-Jumping Mexican Sluts"? Or "Blacks on Crackers"???

(To the black guys here... I'm sorry if my using 'nigge...' offends you, but I'm using that as an example to show the utter HYPOCRISY of Americans of all races. In real life situations I NEVER use that word in a malicious manner, not even with my close black friends. So belive me when I say that I don't hold any malicious intent in saying the N-word. So I beg you for your understanding. I just want to expose the ridiculous and OUTRAGEOUS situation, in that they are allowed to say 'chink' without blinking an eye while NEVER uttering the N-word. I can't believe it. This is SELECTIVE RACISM at it's worst.)

And also, I really belive that it's time we had an Asian MALE pornstar. If you can't find any in the U.S. -- THEN FUCKING BRING ONE OVER FROM JAPAN!!! You guys seem to have no problem at all bringing over Asian FEMALE talents, so why not Asian male talents? If this isn't a strong bias and example of prejudice against Asian men - I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS. There certainly is a market for this, as Rick Lee's site www.asian-man.com is doing very well in the states, and probably over in Asia too. I would like a straight up honest answer to the above questions, if anyone is willing to take up the challenge.

..... I really don't want to make this into another "Make Whitey Pay" type of accusatory thread since it also makes me feel uncomfortable. White people are not always the bad guys, and sometimes minorities are too quick to pull the trigger.

But still - I'M FED UP, and so are a lot of other people. We need a straight up answer, and SOME ACTION!! This is whole situation is VERY unfair, and I'm also pissed that some actresses don't work with black males. But having said that, I think black males have AMPLE representation in the porno industry for now. So how about giving Asian men a chance?

I think this whole scenario is F-U-B-A-R, if you ask me.

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"Gauge had to ask her mom permission to fuck a black guy.That is hilarious!"Anal,Ass to Mouth,Double Anal,Double Penetration,Asslicking,Vomiting..all that stuff is fine honey,but don't go degrading yourself by having sex with those colored men"

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I can bring up all kinds of racial incidents in the North ranging from Boston's school intergration to the riots that seem to happen in LA every 20 years. If the North has less racism as you claim then why did the people I know move? I'm just tired of people who label everyone in the South as prejudiced, inbred hillbillies and don't recognize the irony of their own statement. I also don't like the hypocrisy of people in the news and media who act all indignant about some racial issue like high school kids holding separate proms and then retreat to their all-white vanilla suburbs at night.

"racism is all over the united states but more rampant in the south. correct me if im wrong didnt the KKK march through black neighborhoods in north carolina with the police protectipn? and the greensboro massacre what region did that happend in? I know it wasnt in the west. And the same black people who told you they encountered more racism out of the south did they also tell you about the all black hockey team that won the stanley cup?"

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That being the case, then your second paragraph make no sense, because you are making a comparison to a non-existent situation.

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But still - there are racist undertones directed at Asians in porn. An example is the 'Gang Bang Girl' title with Jade Marcela (I forget the number). She was dressed as a Vietnamese hooker, and all the white and black men as Vietname soldiers! I find personally that offensive as a constientious American of Asian descent, but here me out. That's not all of it.

Here's the catch. I do realize that porn is about fantasy, and if some white guys want to fantasize about dominating and degrading Asian women, then fine. So be it.

BUUUT --- if white men are allowed to see their fantasies on-screen, then I feel that Asian men should be able to see theirs too. I like all races of women. I like Asian women, an usually I can turn to porn from Asia for that. But I also love white chicks. So I want to see some dudes like me fuck them hard on screen. Is that too much to wish for? I find it offensive because there are no depictions of Asian men degrading white women. I absolutely feel that they should have a title or theme where some Mongol Barbarian or Samurai tribe gangbang some white girls and sodomize them. How about that?

Let me reiterate this - it's not that I find Asian women with white men offensive. I've dated and fucked white girls in real life -- both are just the same. Just different features is all. Women are women. But here, we're talking about our fantasies and equal representation. I'm not calling for some silly tit-for-tat where every production company HAS to release the same number of AM/WF and AF/WM porn titles (or else!). I'm just saying that having some Asian male performers screw all types of women would make MANY Asian porn buyers in this country and overseas very happy. The demand for American goods all the way from shoes, handbags and hamburgers is big in Asia, and that INCLUDES PORN. The producer stand to make a handsome profit from the Asian market if they cater to them. So I hink they would be complete morons from a business standpoint to not do it. (Or perhaps complete, disgusting racists. Who knows.)

My only wish is that the porn industry (and Americans in general) would be open-minded toward *all* races. Right now, there is close to no Asian and Latino male representation in American porn. That that is fucking shitty to me.

regards,

jy

Edited by - jy on 10/2/2003 6:28:06 AM

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People always focus on actresses not having interracial sex. Boxcovers are full of derogatory terms, not just about races, but about shapes, sizes, gender, etc. There are some pornographers who think the sole purpose of porn is to degrade.

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T.C.

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Samurai Dai

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It's bad enough that the whole of Asia is lumped into one category. The stereotypes are not only offensive but they're hackneyed, guys! To reduce a quarter of the world's population to images of martial arts, geishas and *American* style oriental cuisine is just WEAK!

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I couldn't have said it better myself. I love RLD titles but I too avoid the 'Me luv U long time' series for the same reasons.

samurai dai

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Now, I know that people have MANY different viewpoints on a myriad of issues, but I was under the impression that most porn watchers (including female ones) understood that porn is about fantasy. Many women are SUBMISSIVES, and do want to be pinned down and some even degraded. Sexual fantasies are about POWER. Hence you have female domination videos, facial and internal cumshot videos, and interracial lines (thanks to the racial-power dynamics in our society). But that is all it is -- FANTASY.

Once the bedroom door opens, all fantasies should be thrown back in the proverbial closet. That is what a healthy sexual relationship should be about, isn't it?
I belive that. In real life, there is no place for the subjugation and de-humanization of women. They are equals.

Therefore, I wasn't simply implying that all women should be degraded, and that I was angry that white women weren't being degraded by Asian men. What I'm trying to say is that people of all races and genders should have the privilige of exercising (or at least dreaming about while watching) their sexual fantasies. And if that revolves around race-themed porn, then so be it. It's okay in my opinion, if ALL people are givent the right. So far it's only white and black men who have access to this for reasons ranging from political correctness to demand and pure cold cash.

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I think part of the "degradation"in porn is because some people are reducing the performers to the rawest primal elements.She's not just a whore,she's a big titted whore,cum sucking whore,ugly whore,fat whore,non english speaking whore...etc.so in the pornographers mind why not use race in a raw and degrading way?

Dominace baby.It's all about Dominance.

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In the interest of political correctness and avoiding saying anything that maybe one person might be offended by: i'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole.

The racism is bad in areas, but stuff like "Me Luv U Long Time" does not bother me. I don't take it too seriously. Stuff like the latest editions of "Little White Chicks, Big Black Dicks" where they are as mean-spirited and insensitive as you can possibly be and in fact tout how racist they are does bother me.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 10/7/2003 10:39:51 PM

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Also, all this pseudo-intellectual debate is all for SHIT if we're not discussing this from an equal platform. It's like a bunch of sociology professors debating racism in their lecture halls:

*In a stuffy New England accent*

"Yes.... there certainly seems to be elements of racism that is prevalent in many parts of the nation, in all layers of society.... yadda yadda yadda."

...then these white, Anglo Saxon professors pat themselves on the backs for a job well-done, and retire to the coffee lounge. It's the same shit here. Porn producers coming here to discuss racism from a detached 3rd-party point of view, then just not doing a damn thing of significance.

Look - it is my opinion that blacks have made HUGE strides in porn. They worked it from a niche market to a mainstream one. Awesome. Great. I think that Asians should be given a chance.

And so what if a bunch of prejudiced chicks won't fuck them? It's just like dating - some people won't want to date/fuck another for whatever reason. You just move on, especially if you have such a ready supply of pussy as black men in porn do. For each girl that wont do a black guy, there are FIFTY that would jump at the chance to fuck Mandingo or Mr. Marcus, to her get her foot in the door. That's why I think that Lexington Steele, as good as a performer he is - is a complete nutjob, complaining endlessly about a few dumb bitches that wouldn't do him on screen for money. Jigga please.... He treats porn as some sort of sociological/moral battle ground where racial politics should be fought. That is a load of crap. Porn is just about selling sex and money. (The 'freedom of expression' schtick is borderline at best. I don't subscribe to it completely.)

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But it's my sincerest wish that American porn producers would wake the fuck up and give porn consumers of every background a chance to live out their fantasies while watching porn.

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