O: The Power of Submission (Adam & Eve)

"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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I hope that I am proved wrong though.

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BTAIM, I seriously doubt that a movie produced in the USA, be it mainstream or adult can do the novel justice.

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You know how much I love lesbians...

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www.ClubCarmen.com

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www.ClubCarmen.com

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Hey Carmen, loved u on Howard Stern. What did you think of him?

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www.ClubCarmen.com

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I hope you are doing well. I'm looking very forward to seeing you at the release party on September 14! I've had the corset cleaned, and the rest of the costume is waiting as you left it. Just a remeinder; you'll need black pasties, since the party can't have nudity.

to check out the movie: www.othepowerofsubmission.com, and the party:
www.surrenderofo.com

Carmen is correct, the 30-year old soft core version is no good, IMHO. It doesn't do the book justice.

I know some are worried that the story couldn't be translated iinto a good movie due to the 'taboo: themes, I'm here to telll you that Ernest has done a great job. However, if a person't idea of "kink" is spitting on women, gaping assholes and mouth fucking them until they gag/puke/cry, or callling them harsh names, then that person won't like this version.

However, there IS: bondage with penetration; whipping with bondage; snowballing; a DP (only one, not two); Carmen walking around naked most of the time (and half of it with visible whip marks); pussy flogging (Carmen does a fantastic job od domming Justine Joli); and the like. Six hot scenes, with four anals and a DP and some of the best real female orgasms I've seen yet. Wait until you see the g/g scene with Justine. The ending of that one is so hot I like to rewind it just to capture again Carmen's incredible climax.

Even better, Ernest stays very true to the story and delves into the darker emotional context of the characters. In that way, it's better than the original movie and more true to the text.

It was shot on video, since film quadruples or quintuples the budget for a movie, and has a lush, rich look, thanks to our editor and our brilliant lighting guy.

It's really a good video, both the story and the sex.

check it out!

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Even if you ran a 35mm camera every single minute of a 10 hour shoot (~60,000 feet), you'd still be under $40K for stock, processing, and transfer. Less if you shoot 3-perf (Super35), and less still for Super16.

Of course even the most prolific gonzo shooter doesn't shoot 10 out of ten hours, and a picture like O a lot of time spend on set-ups, probably as much or more than actual camera rolling time, which makes the cost per day to shoot film even lower.

It's easier to light for film too; the expanded lattitude of the photochemical emulsion can see much further into the shadows and highlights, which allows the final image to show a level of detail only possible with video by lighting very flatly. Less time compensating for video's limitations means more time for actual movie making!

Of course Kodak and Fuji and Arri and Aaton aren't pouring bizillions of dollars into comsumer advertising, so this isn't the message that people hear. They hear video is cheap, easier, even better. Sometimes, depending on the production, it is. But often it wouldn't have been so terribly costly (since you have to pay for DPs and Lexus rentals either way) to shoot on film. And it does look so nice!

Wouldn't it be greatD to see something like O the Power of submission rendered in the same medium as Like Water for Chocolate , Dangerous Liaisons , and Misty Beethovan !

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All of the supporting players are equally good. Shayla Laveaux is great, and her anal scene with a hunky young guy is amazing, with two orgasms for her. And the others are just as strong.

On balance, I feel video is a better format for shooting what is, essentially, a documentary-style, live-action genre like porn. Beyond the tremendous upcharge in expense for the film, processing, telecine, etc., is the added cost of dollies and jib arms, extra crew to handle the camera, film canisters, focus pulling, etc. If you're not going to put out for those extras and plan on just shooting hand held with film, then I think it's better all around to just go straight to video.

Do you shoot on film, btw?

With film, which does a lot of things very well, the action has to yield to the demands of the camera, which will be at the expense of the sex. Bear in mnd that hand-held film cameras have very small magazines, requiring reloading every few minutes, which kills the spontaniety of the sex in many instances.

On-camera sex, like sporting events, lends itself well to the immediacy and flexibility of the video format. With video, the camera follows the action, which is then free to flow as it wants to. This, in turn, leads to more passionate and real performances, as the actors are not burdned with waiting for a film change, or a focus change, or a lighting tweak, etc. It's hard enough to have to stop for stills, without the additional bs involved with film.

When we get multi million dollar budgets, and the multi-week shooting schedules that go with those budgets, then we can talk about shooting porn on film in a way that doesn't diminish the finshed product. Of course I'd love to do something as lush and fantastic as Dangerous Liasions on film! I want to shoot an old fahioned musical, too. But it's not going to happen with five day shoots, low six-figure budgets and no money for rehersals.

I, for one, don't like many of the shot-on-film sex scenes I' ve seen over the years, including from the "golden age" of porn. I liked them when I first saw them, but they were the first sex scenes I'd ever seen, so of course I liked them. When I went back years later and watched them again, I was not so impressed. With the excpetion of the come-shot in the orgy scene in "Behind The Green Door," they don't do much for me.

Film and video both have their place in porn. Neither is superior to the other outside the context in which it's used.

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Are you essentially a newbie to BDSM? But one who's discovered that she enjoys it?

Given that the "Story of O" is about a rite of passage, an awakening, that would make for great casting.

I'm a big fan of Ernest's BDSM videos (especially the "Dark Paradise" and "Nina Hartley's Private Sessions" series) -- so I'm looking forward to this one big time.

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www.ClubCarmen.com

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I live in L.A. so I think I'm going to check out the release party.

See you there if you're not too mobbed by the crowd!

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Something which was dealt with in the 70ies softcore version, BTW.

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Yikes!!!!!!

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Had you read the book, or seen Just Jaeckin's previous flim adaptation of it, you wouldn't have had to "prepare yourself" for the things Zartyr describes.

There is no rape depicted in either, as Zartyr claims. O is repeatedly asked for her consent to all the activities in which she participates throughout the book, beginning with her initiation at Roissy. She is offered numerous opportunities to retract her commitments to both her dominant lovers and repeatedly declines to do so. No force, threat of force or intimidation is employed to secure her cooperation, which is entirely voluntary, though clearly not unconflicted. All versions, including ours, address her inner conflict in different ways, but none suggests physical coercion of any kind.

As to the claim that O is "driven to suicide," in a so-called "alternative ending," this is what the original afterward to the 1954 Grove Press edition has to say, verbatim:

"There exists a second ending to the story of O according to which O, seeing that Sir Stephen was about to leave her, said she would prefer to die. Sir Stephen gave her his consent."

This conclusion was suppressed by the author on further reflection and is "dealt with" in neither the book nor the film. The movie ends with O somewhat playfully branding her initial on Sir Stephen's hand with a heated cigarette-holder. The actual text of the novel concludes with a lavish party at which O is presented, naked but for a feathered mask, to an admiring crowd of Stephen's acquaintences.

Not only does O not die at the end but, rather like Sherlock Holmes following his ambiguous "final" encounter with Professor Moriarity at the Reichenbach falls, comes back for a sequel, Return to the Chateau, in 1967. In the second book, it is O who abandons Stephen and not the other way around. She goes on to explore her BDSM interests independently under Anne Marie's guidance.

To be sure, both novels are shocking to modern, post-feminist sensibilities in some respects and there are elements in the first book suggesting the corruption of a minor that we would never choose to dramatize for a video whose principle purpose is erotic entertainment.

However, the implication that violence and self-destruction are major themes in any of the works under discussion, including our own, is simply false.

The source material is readily available to those wishing to inform themselves before offering their opinions.

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I remember back to my early teens (20+ years ago) when I saw a Penthouse pictorial entitled The Story of O and still vividly remember a picture featuring a woman with a pierced labia and a chain attached. It was the first time I saw such a thing and is probably my earliest memory of kink. I know it's pretty common to see piercings today, but it was so powerful back then for my young eyes. It took me a long time to accept my inner perv and I'm thankful to people like you, and others here on ADT, who helped me with this transition. I think it's finally time to get the book.

Edited by - Twizted6 on 8/15/2006 3:01:30 AM

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BTAIM, it is fiction and erotic literature and fantasies often deal with rape - or for the euphemism inclined, coerced sex.

BTAIM, the book is much darker than the movie from the 70ies and a bazillion times more dark than the brazilian TV-mini series from the 90ies.

Edited by - zartyr on 8/15/2006 5:00:11 AM

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Thanks for the clarification! My avid interest is renewed.

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Here's to ADT, here's to Nina, here's to Twizted6!

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Edited by - bob on 8/15/2006 12:50:30 PM

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I agree that the book is darker than its subsequent interpretations. I think it's fair to say that our approach pays its respects to that dark element. It's not a fairy tale by any means. However, it is modernized by giving O a much more assertive persona. She acts of her own volition as much as she is acted upon by others in the telling of the story. While remaining faithful to the essential plot elements, we specifically set out to rectify what we saw as a basic flaw in the original, which was O's seeming passivity. We also saw this as a weakness of the hyper-romanticized softcore film rendition.

No one who is otherwise shown to be an independent-minded career woman with a somewhat predatory sexual appetite herself is likely to be drawn into such an intense submissive relationship without a strong element of personal choice. We emphasize that element of personal choice throughout our version, which has the benefit of a much greater understanding of D/s relationships that has evolved since the original was written. That's why our story is called O – The Power of Submission. We do not see consensual erotic submission as disempowering in any way.

While I also agree that rape fantasies are common, not only in erotic literature but also in romantic fiction aimed primarily at female reading audiences, such fantasies are not addressed in our picture, nor would they be in anything we would make. That extends to any kind of coercive behavior that blurs the line between consensual BDSM and abuse or exploitation. There is none of that in our movie.

Make no mistake about it. Our O is nobody's victim, and I think Carmen will back me up on this. You can enjoy watching O – The Power of Submission with a clear conscience.

Edited by - Nina Hartley on 8/15/2006 1:56:32 PM

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I'm not sure I should get into the middle of this, but Nina: TonyC does indeed specialize in film, and at no expense to the sex. He and his wife Peggy have learned how to shoot the scene in a minimally obtrusive fashion while capturing full coverage with two cameras. I understand your skepticism, but if you ever get a chance, you might check out the behind-the-scenes of Damon and Hunter. I've seen only the pre-release version, but I was impressed by the footage of Tony and Peggy's quiet, coordinated, dancelike flow around the couple.

Edited by - YogaDame on 8/15/2006 5:05:25 PM

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The "loving dominant" and the "powerful submissive" are observable phenomena, yet deeply paradoxical nonetheless. (Kind of like human nature generally.)

Although my inner perv doesn't know from political correctness, the paradoxes and all the strong feelings involved with BDSM remain tough for me to understand and deal with.

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I do think you'll like O as we've done it, as it really does put a different spin on the characters while preserving the key story points.

And I wanted to clarify my views regarding shot-on-film porn. I think I may have come off as unduly negative on the subject. There has been some excellent film work for adult media that I've enjoyed very much. Andrew Blake's pictures come to mind immediately. Ernest AD'ed for him for several years and he used to come home with great tales of how Blake could bounce around the room with a hand-held Bolex in two-minute intervals and come up with wonderfully smooth and flowing images. No doubt that film's better light-handling qualities contributes to the sensual atmosphere of Blake's movies.

I'm not familiar with Tony's work, but it sounds like he's worked out his own system for taking advantage of the richness of film without losing the immediacy of hand-held video. That's a real accomplishment.

However, clearly these are the works of real filmmakers with tons of experience who know how to maximize the advantages of film technique, even with comparatively small budgets. When shooting for large production companies, the problem of keeping the requirements of film shooting from overrunning the main objective of making a hot picture with limited resources of time and money is a real one. I've been on too many film sets where the action ended up revolving around the camera's needs instead of the other way around.

Like any art form, it's all in the skill of those who practice it.

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Given the complexity of the O shoot, the tight schedule, and unforeseen circumstances which arose at the last minute, I'm glad you were shooting video and not film. I just meant to clarify that Tony does indeed walk his talk. Although I would catagorize his walk as more of a stroll than a brisk jog, ahem. I've had Matt & Khym on pre-order for over a year now. I do understand that this type of extended post-production period is not going to be a workable business model for Adam & Eve.

There's room for both styles, and that's a good thing. I get the sense that this movie is a bit more... intense... than the usual productions released by Adam & Eve. Good for them, for their willingness to stretch into a new area.

Edited by - YogaDame on 8/15/2006 6:12:38 PM

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www.ClubCarmen.com

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I believe I now have a much better grasp of the pain/pleasure paradox than I did as little as a year ago. It helped me to find research like this study reported by BBC: "Brain links pain with pleasure." Basically, the same stimuli which activate the classic pain circuitry also activate the reward circuitry of the brain (and the reward circuitry activates first). Ambiguous sensations can be interpreted multiple ways, depending largely on the associated emotions. I am a person who unabashedly enjoys hot peppers, roller coaster rides, and multiple layers of sexual stimulation (compression, pinching, stretching, vibration, etc.). So I've eventually come to the rather startling conclusion that my body is (and always has been) well built for kink-style sex.

Am I psychologically suited to D/s play, though? I agree that this is a thorny area for me. And ultimately academic, since I'm in a deeply committed and loving relationship with a husband who consistently identifies as vanilla. I don't need or expect him to change. But I feel oddly compelled to keep exploring vicariously through porn (and occasionally, through my fantasies). It's interesting to consider what alternative directions I might've taken if certain key ideas had been introduced at key periods of my life.

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In anycase, I was only responding to Nina's assertion that shooting film costs four or five times more than shooting video, and that's simply not the case. Sony and Apple and Panasonic might like people to think it's the case, and they spend about a jizzillion dollars so that people think it's so, but it's not.

Anyone who can do a compentent job with a video camera can do a compentent job with a film camera, including shooting hand-held from the shoulder. There is a small, but easily mastered skill set require to make the transition from video to film. If you don't believe me, ask Peggy. Shooting B-camera on D&H was the first time she'd ever handled a film camera: frame, focus, and pull the trigger. It's just that easy.

Kodak spends a little money trying to let people know about this, but film is not a consumers product, and does not have the marketing dollars behind it that video has, so most people never hear this message - they shoot video because they think that shooting film costs four or five times what it costs to shoot video, and it doesn't. If you can do a good job with video, you can almost always do a better job with film, with little or no additional cost.

As I said, it would be nice to see something like O on film, and it's more achievable than most people think!

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I hear you when you say your body is wired for BDSM stimulation. I found that out, too, almost by accident, when I responded positively to my first experience with spanking. I just liked it from the first time.

Your husband may be "vanilla," but he is clearly passionately in love with, and attracted to, you. I dare say that he'd "help out" your pleasure lessons in most any way you instructed him to. So, he may not be a spanker, for example, but if you asked him to whack your butt during doggie style sex, would he not comply?

For me the key was understanding the separation of, and difference between, sensation and context. Absent fear, the stimulation of the spank felt really good and acted like an underscore to our heightened arousal. If he had been angry, I dare say that same spank would have been upsetting.

So, as long as your husband knows he's not hurting you, I'd guess he'd be happy to lend a hand!

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Fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I don't know that I'm a good wife. I try to be. Building a healthy, nurturing, trusting relationship with this amazing man is the most challenging and the most rewarding thing I've ever done.

But I know he's not going to watch O when I bring it home. Which is a shame. Carmen looks stunning in the trailer, and I understand she learned every line virtually flawlessly. (Sorry, Carmen, didn't mean to start hijacking your thread...)

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It's Adrianna. I just wanted to post and let everyone know that I am looking forward to the release of O and seeing the final edit of what was a really amazing feature to work on. I felt very lucky to be a part of an amazing cast which included Carmen Luvana, Evan Stone, Kylie Ireland, Justine Jolie, and Nina Hartley. The costumes included custom latex pieces from Syren and sexy lingerie from Agent Provocateur and the shoot locations that we had were quite breathtaking as well (not your typical porno shoot houses).
Kylie and I did a B/B/G/G scene with Tyler Knight and Van Damage which was a hot scene to perform in and my first time being in a scene with Kylie...I've been in scenes that she has directed but had yet to be in a scene with her :)....Watching carmen perform was a treat as well and left my pussy wet. So, I look forward to seeing my fellow cast members again on September 14th at the release party in Hollywood (party info can be found at http://www.surrenderofo.com/) and hope to see fans and ADT members who are in the area as well. Come out, say 'Hi' and introduce yourselves.

xxo,

Adrianna Nicole

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He and his crew did some pretty extensive setup related to lighting, sound, et cetera, but once we were rolling we weren't interrupted. Honestly, we didn't even notice that we were being filmed.

cheers,
Matt and Khym

"The only real blasphemy is the refusal of joy."

ps- Sorry for the threadjack; The Story of O is one of our favorite books, and we look forward to seeing the new movie!

Edited by - agoodbadhabit on 8/16/2006 6:40:40 PM

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As any ADT regular can attest to, I am a (sometimes overly) passionate advocate of film. But whether or not film can or should be used to shoot sex is not the subject of this thread; the subject of this thread is the imminent release of O: the Power of submission . And however one might feel about film or video or rape fantasies or sexual encounters that leave unanswered questions about consent, it would seem that this film offers some hope to anyone who believes that sex can and should be the subject of serious artistic inquiry.

In an day where most producers continue to explore the innermost limits of low-budget production, O has a comparitively lavish budget.

In a day where most directors openly express contempt for their players, their viewers, and their subject matter, the creative team behind O seems to have a personal investment in all three.

Whether or not O is to one's taste is a question that can only be answered in the watching, but the early indications are the production is an honest effort. These days, that counts for a lot!

Edited by - tonyc on 8/16/2006 9:08:42 PM

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Thanks so much for the encouraging words. Ernest and I know that you take your work seriously, as do we, which gives us a great deal in common. We never condescend to our audience or disrespect the power of sex performance, those who give so much to do it well and/or capture it for the viewers.

I hope you'll check out O and very much look forward to your impressions thereafter.

And hello Adrianna. Thanks to you too for your contributions to the picture. Not only did you give us a great sex scene, your knowing and graceful presence throughout much of the picture added immeasurably to the atmosphere of sultry realism we strove so mightily to create.

See you at the party!

Edited by - Nina Hartley on 8/16/2006 9:49:54 PM

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We certainly hope so. We put a great deal of time and effort into giving it the look (as much as the video format can) of a mainstream movie, with lush production values and scrupulous attention to detail.

But what really makes it movie-like is that it's character-driven. Carmen's performance as O is so convincing, she gives real depth and complexity to O's conflicted submissive sexuality. The rest of the cast steps up to her strong acting chops and the script gives them all plenty of "real moments" in between the sex so we can get to know them.

And the sex itself is platformed by story situations created in the dialog and action of the rest of the picture. It's not one of those high-school plays that drops dead every few minutes to jam in an irrelevant sexual encounter.

We tried for the look and emotional impact of a real movie movie. We didn't get it in every frame, but from what I infer from you question, I don't think you'll be disappointed in the result.

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