It really seems like if you showed a pic of a porn star to a room of guys, virtually every guy is going to know who it is. And what little i know of women, they are even into it also.. I constantly hear women talking about porn.. While it will never be shown on network TV, I have a feeling it's pretty widely watched.
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TeganLovesSara Deactivated User
Are you smoking yet? 252 Posts 12/09
Posted - Jan 12 2010 : 7:03PM
It is less mainstream then us one hand wankers want to think.
I haven't met a single person (in the real world) who can carry on a conversation with me about performers, companies, or movies. I had to explain to someone the other day what Deep Throat was. Aside from cross-over hits like Pirates, I would say that mainstream appropriations of pornographic stereotypes have become mainstream -- imagery of blonde fake-boobed women, visual and aural soundbytes, etc. -- while the actual content hasn't. It feels like it's becoming mainstream because it's more visible, and because mainstream consumer culture is using porno imagery to sell their products.
Please. I was reviewing documents in an attorney capacity, and sometimes porn comes up, and years ago I remember some guy saying "wow, I know who this is" and it was Tera Patrick, and I pretended I had never heard of her. People know.. It's common.
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Fernandez Deactivated User
781 Posts 12/08
Posted - Jan 12 2010 : 7:24PM
I spend a lot of time in bars, and I've never heard anything about porn, even from drunks. Also spent several years in the military, ditto. I'd be interested where you hear women talking about porn. Never heard that either.
I know women that want to make certain genres of porn, like ninjas raping white women.... Maybe people in public just don't admit it? I admitted I wasn't honest, but that was in a work environment, where sex is unacceptable. If you own up to knowing who people are, it probably means you jerk off, instead of have sex, which is true in my case.. But I would be less open about it in a bar.
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jan 12 2010 : 7:34PM
Same here. If the conversation should for some reason tilt towards "porn" movies, somebody might mutter the name of "Ron Jeremy" (just goes to show you how behind the times they are) but beyond that, the general population is totally clueless of porn current events, movies, performers, trends. I rember an inteview I saw some months back on CNN between Rick Sanchez and a well-known porn actress who was considering running for political office. Sanchez was blushing like crazy and seemed to be in some difficulty in asking questions and finding her quite articulate (which he probably did not expect). He and his staff could have done some homework (as they no doubt do for other stories they run).
They're embarraseed to admit they know, I presume you are talking about Mary Carey. I recently watched Boondocks Saints with a friend, and when he asked me who the actor was I said "err, the porn guy?" and I knew exactly who it was, Ron Jeremy.. I was just embarrassed to admit I watch pron and wank to it.
^ You don't know me, clearly. Obviously I can't convince you of what's true or not, nor do I much care, but you're just gonna have to trust me -- the way my life is, the people I'm around, and my line of work, people are honest with me and they *don't* know (the ones I speak to, anyway). In fact, they want to know, and I have had many, many long and involved conversations on a wide variety of topics to do with porn. Other people don't want to know, and that's cool too - I never push it on anyone. But everyone I know knows that I'm the go-to person, and can talk openly to me.
Edited by - Gore Gore Girl on 1/12/2010 9:21:02 PM
Porn in the US will never be that main stream to many people when they hear the word porn they think it is gross & they act like anybody that watches porn they are one of the top 10 worst people in the US. If you do watch porn you better keep it to yourself in US people lives have been screwed up beause other people found out they watch porn
I don't think it's that mainstream with exception to house-hold names like Jenna Jameson, Ron Jeremy and Sasha Grey, I don't think people know who the other pornstars are. Also, I think porn is less taboo now as well because of all the celebrity sextapes that was popular in the 2000's.
I remember years ago on Letterman they were making some joke about someone on the show, and they show some guy ina bathtub, with porn music playing in the background (the song from I like to Watch). Some porn songs are actually famous and everyone knows they are from porn.. Same with Debbie Does Dallas. Everyone knows what it is..
I'd like to respond to this question in a different fashion: porn has made certain sex acts more mainstream, particularly for younger females, such as ass fucking, ass eating, and girl-on-girl. I've come across lots of girls who know that this is expected of them. Even plenty of fairly conventional, straight girls will make out with each other and feel each other up. I attribute this to the influence of porn.
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jan 13 2010 : 2:03PM
When mainstream actresses are cast for roles of strippers, etc, they usually take lessons from porn star/strippers not disco dancers. When Joan Collins had to portray a stripper in SEVEN THIEVES (1960,20th Century Fox), guess who trained her and choreographed her moves? None other than the iconic Candy Barr. Porn has influenced mainstream moviemaking and vice versa for quite some time, in ways it is difficult to even begin to imagine. Sometimes it is subtle (a line, a passing reference to a performer, a sex act, porn expression, etc) and sometimes not so subtle. The movie DEEP THROAT (1972) spawned and publicized a sex act that was little known even in porn circles at the time. And that moniker was even used for one of the characters in the book and movie ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN just to give an example. Edited by - Len801 on 1/13/2010 2:09:21 PM
Mostly no, but yes in an indirect way. The sexual revolution in the 1970s started a trend where sex could be talked about in public. And it made porn (which had been around forever) much bigger although still not accepted. Guys have had their sexuality and willingness to explore influenced hugely by porn. Women, not so much just for the simple fact they don't watch much porn and only in the very recent years has that changed. Still there are WAY fewer women watching porn or even being interested in it. Women's willingness to explore is influenced way more by what is being covered in the mainstream media and by pressure from their male sexual partners. And I wouldn't really label all of that 'willingness' either, there is a lot of pressure on women to do things that many of them have little or no interest in. Things they're not eager to do on one night stands or at the points in relationship where it is asked of them. I base this on what I've heard from many girls once you get them to talk in a general way about this stuff. It's not that girls are ruling out the kinky stuff, but they are really feeling the pressure to an extent where many couples have issues with unrealistic expectations from the guy. Girls don't want to that stuff as often, or as early in the relationship than what is expected of them. There is a certain disconnect between the sexes here. Feel free to try and shoot it down, especially the females. I'm just sharing my impressions. Edited by - JohnW on 1/13/2010 5:34:19 PM
Please, two whole people recognizing Tera Patrick outside of her native habitat doesn't make something mainstream. By suggesting it is mainstream, you have to compare it to other mainstream media to have a valid comparison. Ancedotal stories about recognizing a porn star or a porn title doesn't mean porn is a mainstream media product. To be mainstream a product has to pretty much be mass-media accessible and tied to some commercial concept or enterprise. Playboy is porn and Playboy comes closest to that definition, but that's about it. Vivid may want to get there, hell I think they are even more profitable than Playboy (who I hear is hurting these days). But finding a Vivid DVD anywhere other than an adult retail shop on the outskirts of town is still keeping them far from mainstream. I think porn watchers and performers WISH it was more mainstream than it is, but wishing it doesn't make it true. Now I do believe that the average-joe's knowledge of the porn industry has been heightened in the past 10 years, largely due to influences of the internet and all the new legal issues surrounding access to same. But that's more like saying the walls around porn have become mainstream than porn itself. This "porn is mainstream" is an old meme that pops up around the internet all the time. And its been proven that porn is pretty much NOT mainstream by any number of studies. One of the more meaningful sources is the GSS (General Social Survey) study conducted annually. The study itself is pretty deep, but surveys a crapload of societal behaviors. But here's an article that does an excellent job of debunking this "Porn is mainstream!" myth using this study. What you'll see is that porn is not now, nor ever has been, mainstream. ESPECIALLY with women. What is most odd is that most of the people who try to claim porn IS mainstream are ultra-conservatives....they want desperately to paint porn as the blame for any number of societal ills. And try as they might, they haven't been able to do that yet. Neither can anyone else.
I promise you, Jenna Jameson is probably one of the most famous people in America. Don't forget that talk radio ALWAYS has pornstars as guests. Howard Stern, Opie and Anthony, CONSTANTLY have porn stars as guests. These shows have many, many listeners. Porn is kinda like masturbating, until recently, most people denied they did it. I was shocked to get to college and how people openly talked about "rubbing"..
Using somewhat dated stats from Arbitron (casual Googling, help yourself to better ones), the primary rankings study for all radio programs, XM/Sirius combined have about 12 million total subscribers. Howard Stern grabs about 1.2-1.5 Million listeners each week. Opie and Anthony, by most reports, weren't even getting a third of Howard's numbers. By comparison, for that same period Rush Limbaugh was grabbing around 13.5 million listeners. Howard is hardly the "king of all media" he proclaimed himself to be. And that means his listeners, while a relevant media marketing target, don't really represent mainstream radio audience USA either. Jenna Jameson is famous, no doubt. So is Linda Lovelace to an older generation, likely even more so than Jenna. But you can't claim that because of the notoriety of a handful of names that the entire industry has hit mainstream. It MAY be very popular within certain circles....you mentioned college and I don't doubt that. So I think its safe to argue the popularity, notoriety...even name recognition of certain porn stars all you want.
x2 I had a couple of young girls round to my place and they asked me if I had any porn to watch ! Years ago you had to beg or trick a girl into watching it !
We're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like! 1660 Posts 2/06
Posted - Jan 14 2010 : 11:50AM
Referring to him as a character in a book and a Hollywood movie doesn't exactly make your depth of knowledge clear but nevermind, I shouldn't post when I'm tired. Edited by - david starsky on 1/14/2010 12:01:06 PM
A lot of you are confusing watched with followed. Lots of people *watch* porn, not very many people *follow* porn. I know I've seen probably thousands of porn movies and who-the-hell-knows how many porn pictures at this point in my life. I probably couldn't name more than a dozen or two porn stars on sight. I don't make an effort to learn who they are unless something about them is interesting enough that I'd actually want to take the time to search out more movies/pictures that they were in. Millions of people watch, but very few of them have the adult-dvd-talk-forum-poster level of obsession.
This. Most men watch porn, very few learn anything about it. For most guys porn is a substitute for sex, not a sexual experience in and of itself. Even if I had every woman I ever wanted, I'd still watch porn because I like watching porn. I don't think that's true of most men.
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TeganLovesSara Deactivated User
Are you smoking yet? 252 Posts 12/09
Posted - Jan 14 2010 : 4:11PM
No. When perfomers start using their real names, then I think you can make a case for the porn industry being mainstream.
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jan 14 2010 : 5:05PM
A very few of them use their real name (Ron Jeremy, Ginger Lynn, etc). What astonishes me is when they are being interviewed and they state that their parents are aware (or are supportive) that they do porn movies. What hinders them from using their real names? But yours is a rather odd and unfair statement as people in the entertainment (movies, music) often use pseudonyms. So why do THEY have to use fake names?
Lots of hollywood actors use fake names. A few people not using their birth names: Nicolas Cage Red Buttons Bette Davis Michael Crawford Rock Hudson Sigourney Weaver Doris Day Gary Cooper Fred Astaire Kaye Ballard John Barrymore Jacky Benny Tom Berenger Jack Black Charles Bronson Geena Davis Jimmy Dean Sandra Dee John Denver etc. etc. Edited by - TheCuriousDizzle on 1/14/2010 5:18:34 PM
This is an interesting discussion indeed but I must disagree with cantgetlaid.... it's far, far, far from "mainstream". Is it moving that direction? Sure. And I WOULD agree that Jenna Jameson has come the closest. I live in a tiny little hick town (by my standards being from a big city) and our local video store does indeed have some Jenna movies out in the open, next to Star Trek box sets and other TV shows. It also has an aisle of adult movies.... but from the glancing I've done, I'd say it's all soft porn. So this is proof of moving in "that" direction. But I agree with whomever said your case of some guy knowing who Tera Patrick was is hardly proof of anything. Do a study on your clients (lol) that includes THIRTY data points (people) and THEN we'll take you a bit more seriously. I've watched 1000s of porn movies as well and I could only name maybe 2 dozen stars... as someone else said, those stars that really rev me up who I wish to take note of and search out in other movies. America is backward and frigid in the sex department... so most don't admit it and a very tiny minority has a clue what is going on in the porn world. Ask your buddies what a "blowbang" is or what a "DPP" is or what a "Bukkake" or "Gokkun" is.... It's likely that you yourself cannot answer all 4 of these terms intelligently! Lots of people know who Ron Jeremy, Seka, John Holmes are... but "Alana Evans"? or "Brandon Iron"? or "Jules Jordan"? or "Francesca Le"? I think not... yet these are or were in recent years, HUGE stars in porn. Jules Jordan would probably rank the highest (sorry Brandon)... yet I bet I could stand outside a supermarket and ask ONE HUNDRED PEOPLE (and I live in a college town!!!-mostly young folks) and I'll be you maybe 1-3 would know who he was. Mainstream? I think not.
Not a worry! I'm just dealing with inner demons, that's all. It has more to do with getting to know myself on the inside as opposed to having people know me on the outside. It's cool to find one aspect of yourself (even if it's something you are secretly ashamed of) in someone you just meet for the first time. It's like a dog seeing another dog in a park. Instand attraction. Woof!
I honestly don't know the names of many mainstream actors. People talk about celebrities all the time and I have no idea who most of them are... Again, the question comes up to how honest people are. Look at the sales of porn, look at much of the internet is dedicated to porn, and then suddenly wonder if it's not that well known? People are just dishonest about if they are questioned. Please, if you were watching Boondocks Saints, in a theater with 200 people, when he appears, and the question was asked, most people would pretend they didn't know who it was, but virtually everyone would actually know.. The only reason why names are harder to come by these days in common parlance is because there are SO many more women in porn now... There used to be just a few, now there are many. Even in EUrope, in Italy, some former porn star was elected to public office there. I promise you , 95% of heterosexual males in the US over the age of 27 knows who Silvia Saint is, but might not admit it in front of their mothers.
Again, I think the facts would make you realize your conjecture is way off base.Only 12% of all domain names are for pornographic web sites. That means the overwhelming majority of the internet is NOT porn. You exhibit a rationale that is fairly typical for a young male: You assume everyone else is just like you. You have a difficult time acknowledging porn in front of your non-peer group, perhaps even in front of your peer group. You hide your sexuality from your family because you were likely raised to believe sex and masturbation are dirty and sinful. You don't recognize the names of many mainstream actors yourself and yet insist that everyone else knows the names of porn stars. I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying that these perspectives are typical for someone who believes everyone else is just like they are. Maybe the question is....how mainstream are YOU? Perhaps you just obsess about porn so much that you believe everyone else does as well? Fun fact: The single biggest group of interrs searching for "porn" in internet search engines comes through ISP's hosted in Elmhurst, IL, home of the Chicago-area SBC/AT&T internet service. So theoretically, if you walked down the street here and asked 50 people at random about porn sites, you'd have a higher chance of getting positive reactions than anyplace else in the world, just given empirical usage statistics. Look at the facts. Porn is big business, no doubt. But it doesn't rule our lives the way mainstream media does. Not unless you've got an unhealthy fixation/addiction to it at least.
Porn will have become mainstream when TV shows like Access/Hollywood/Extra/TMZ/ET are regularly including pornstars in their daily mix of celebrity gossip, rumor and non-news.
^ Indeed. I saw a TMZ article on their website showing pics of Jenna Haze at the beach (looking lovely and natural), and the article couldn't seem to get past the fact that she is a porn star. That's to be expected, but then I read the comments -- all along the lines of "She's a porn star??" and various derogatory remarks about small boobs, skinniness, all suggestive of a preconceived notion of what a porn star is "supposed" to look like. I think this is indicative of something... As for the amount of porn people watch, I'll echo a couple of other people here in saying that watching porn is different from following it. Most people I know watch movies, but I can't talk to them about directors etc. They know the stars though, and names of movies. Ultimately, porn may be consumed in large amounts, but that doesn't make it "mainstream."
Personally, I'm somewhat thankful that porn ISNT mainstream. Don't we already suffer enough of a glut of repetition as it is? I can't imagine how bad it would be to have McPorn all over the place.
I was thinking this too. It's already McPorn in a way though - I think of "porn" and "mainstream" as two different industries, and then there are "mainstream" and "marginal" films within each industry (we refer to "mainstream" porn - Wicked, Vivid etc). Maybe we need to create some new terms to refer to all this...
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 2:14PM
As an attorney, you should know that you can't generalize anecdotal evidence. GGG's observations seem spot on to me. The stereotypes of porn have been taken up by conventional media, certainly, and as noted elsewhere on this forum, it is almost impossible to find an adult who hasn't see porn at sometime. The sales of porn for the last 40 years absolutely verifies its wide popularity, but, as yet, the kind of familiarity with it that is typical with ADT members, or the kind of wide exposure that box office biggies lie "Star Wars" or "Avatar" get, is certainly not the case, and I doubt it ever will be. BTW, why did you pretend you'd never heard of Tera Patrick? Not afraid of besmirching your reputation, were you? Porn freaks in the legal profession? Scandalous!
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 6:15PM
Porn is not mainstream. But relatively speaking, it is now more mainstream than it has ever been before. Maybe ten years or twenty from now, porn will be more mainstream than it is today. I posted in another thread about how I recently visited a music/video store that I patronize, and noticed that the store has a porn video section right out in the open along with all of its other videos. This is not an adult store. It's just a regular store, no different than FYE or any other store. But they have an open display of porn. I was surprised by the bold decision of the store to do this, as well as really surprised that they're able to get away with it considering that the store is open to children. To me, this is a sign of porn becoming progressively more mainstream than it has ever been. Many here may see porn becoming mainstream as a good thing. But I'm not so sure. There are pros and cons to porn being too mainstream. The good thing about it is that it means more social acceptance, and that people can enjoy it without having to hide in the shadows and pretend not to know what it is. Being mainstream also diminishes the strength of those who oppose it and seek to wipe it out. But there's also a negative side to it, which I think even overpowers the good side to it. For one thing, I like the fact that porn is dirty, taboo, and illicit. IMO, that is what makes it so good. Porn is good because it appeals to sexual fantasies that would be socially disparaged if practiced in real life. If it becomes mainstream, which means the masses are accepting of it, then where's the fun in that? It would be like fantasizing about eating a Snickers bar. It's not really a fantasy if I can just easily go out and do it and nobody cares. Also, becoming mainstream would negatively affect the quality of porn. Like everything else that becomes mainstream, whether it's rap music or reality TV shows, once it becomes mainstream, it starts to suck. When something becomes mainstream, it often loses its creativity and originality by trying to mold itself into what the masses want it to be, and becomes nothing more than a cookie-cutter clone of something else in a contest of selling the most or gaining the most popularity. Consequently, it becomes stale, predictable, dry, commercialized, worn-out, and fake. Oh wait! All that has already happened to porn. Nevermind that last paragraph. Maybe porn really is mainstream after all.
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 6:44PM
It may be time to define what is meant by "mainstream" in this case. If we're talking about "Debbie Does Dallas" on TNT's "The Essentials", that ain't happening, of course. Nor should it. If we're talking about a kind of 'don't ask, don't tell' kind of broad acceptance and occasional enjoyment of pornography that most people keep to themselves or even deny, I think that clearly has already happened. On the other hand, if we're talking about a social acceptance of porn in which no one thinks twice about discussing it or admitting readily that they enjoy it, it's clear just in the responses in this thread that we aren't there yet. I hope we get there for all our sakes, but I think that,if we do, it will be a long trip.
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 7:00PM
Realtip: ...becoming mainstream would negatively affect the quality of porn. You're not serious are you? There are, of course, exceptions, but negatively affecting the quality of porn is like negatively affecting the quality of Chinese drywall. It's scarcely possible, let alone likely.
Seeing Sasha Gray at Blockbuster in GFE says a lot. In the next 5 years it will be mainstream, although there will always be a conservative portion of the population. Choice is the future...
I, personally, do not think that porn itself will be become part of the mainstream movie genre. At least, I hope not. It takes away the lure of being a "rebel" (IMHO). Having said that though, if a performer has the opportunity to rub shoulders with the mainstream movie elites or partake in a mainstream movie, I say go for it!
Porn is huge, bigger than any of the four major sports leagues individually (I think I heard a stat that it was bigger than the NFL, NBA, and NHL combined). Huge doesn't mean mainstream however. Nothing can be mainstream if most people who watch it are embarassed to talk about it in public. It can't get in to society's collective consciousness hidden away on computer harddrives and peoples secret porn DVD stashes. Edited by - Christopher256 on 1/23/2010 5:56:17 PM
^ Correct. Also, those stats and figures that get thrown out by companies have been shown to be near impossible. I wish there were some reliable figures.
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Bluto Deactivated User
511 Posts 3/09
Posted - May 5 2010 : 7:42PM
It was claimed by many to be mainstream in 1980. Every town had a porn theatre and adult bookstores.
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Gummy Bear Deactivated User
94 Posts 4/10
Posted - May 5 2010 : 8:02PM
The irony is that porn is becoming mainstream just as the traditional business model is collapsing. It's like some huge sleazy Ponzi scheme from hell.
Not more mainstream. But Female Porn Stars names/monikers as well as faces are more familiar & recognizable. By both men & women i think. And more acts only seen in porn are being performed by people in there personal lives. Not sure if porn is influencing the trend or people just being more honest about there own desires.
Audrey Madison Interview
Posted - Jan 12 2010 : 6:56PM
