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Veronica Hart

All Forums > The Porn Pool > The Porn Pool Forum Page 583 > "Socially Responsible Exploitation"-Veronica Hart
AuthorPost
-Kelly-
Senior Member

2517 Posts
5/03
Posted - Mar 6 2006 : 4:57AM
The second disc of the new DVD release of Cecil Howard's Neon Nights features rather long new interviews with Jamie Gillis, Eric Edwards, Veronica Hart, and C. Davis Smith (the film's cinematographer), each one with their own set of notable moments. There are notable moments I found from Veronica's 30+ minute interview:

I always had a real social conscious when I was acting, believe it or not, because I felt that I represented women, and I never wanted to present certain things in a bad light. Like I didn't want to portray "a woman getting raped and then enjoying it because we all know that women need to be raped". I mean I didn't want to put across negative values, and that was kind of tough. You know, because, it's gee, I'd really like to be able to pay rent or pay the telephone bill this month, and somebody's asking you to do something and you're not so sure if you should do it. I tried to basically make films-be in films-that I was okay with their message. A lot of people in our business just churn out whatever type of pornography without thinking of any kind of repercussion. Even as a filmmaker now, a director, and a producer, I try and associate myself with projects that I feel are socially responsible. I know it's funny because you say, "Socially responsible in an exploitive nature?"

Hopefully, in the films I've made-that I've directed-if it is a bad guy and he does have rough sex it's because he's an asshole and you know it. Or it's a game they're [presumably the lead characters] playing and they enjoy it. I did a film called Edge Play (2001), and that's where women live out their roughest fantasies-such as gangbangs or whatever-but they still are able to maintain control because it's a sheltered environment. So, I'm saying yes it's okay to live out your fantasies, but the woman should be in control. Don't think that if she has a rape fantasy she necessarily wants to be raped. Check it out with her first. Maybe she'd like to keep it a fantasy.

I did another film, actually shot on film, and it was called Taken (2000). It was that same thing. The woman does get kidnapped in it, and she does fall in love with her kidnapper. But what's the story really about? It's a story of basically telling guys to take care of your wife at home; even though you're married and have kids, she still needs love too. That was the message behind it. The way to do it was this kidnapping thing, and it turns out it was all a dream [...]

We used to be paid by day. Now, the actors and actresses are paid per sex act. So, when you're paying for a blowjob or for two people to be together boy do you shoot it. I mean you shoot it from 25 ways to Sunday. The thing that we've done better in the last 25 years is that we've perfected the angles. We know the best ways to shoot the angles of sex, whether it's the under or the up and over or the side we've got it down. And as result a lot of our films kind of went clinical. Maybe that's why gonzo did so well because it broke out of that [though one could argue that gonzo has now fallen into the same trap, just that it is also the lighting, costumes, boxcover concepts and designs, titles and circus act themes, etc. as well as angle that has become overly clinical]. But now a script, a good script, for one of our movies is probably 25 pages. Back when I was making movies we had 90 page scripts. So, the formula is pretty much changed. Before it was 15 minutes of acting with maybe 5 minutes of sex. Now, I'm lucky if I get 5 minutes of acting, set-up, and story for a 15 minute sex scene. So, it seems a little reversed. It was much more about acting back then, and now it's less so--depending on who you work for. There are directors who still like actors. There's Michael Raven, uh, Nic Orleans, James Avalon...myself of course. We're all still interested in doing movies. Movies, that's it. I'm not really interested in reality TV, reality sex. I might be interested in filming my guy [makes the motion of holding a camera while looking down] while we're fucking, but that doesn't interest me as a filmmaker. So, I think my days in the business are pretty outdated.

----

What do you think of her take on the change from per day to per sex act and the effect it had on filming techniques? Plus, do you agree with my own personal assessment that the clinical argument could made for gonzo now? Her talk of socially responsible porn is in a storyline context, and for the most part so is her need to make sure that the woman is always in control to some degree. So, does that mean it's completely outdated?

Edited by - -Kelly- on Mar 7 2006

picman
Senior Member

Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass.
2884 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 6 2006 : 6:55AM
It isn't outdated if it's good. There's a market for erotic movies and it's poorly served by the softcore on cable and formulaic couples fare coming from the major porn studios. But we romanicize the "golden age of porn" too much. Gonzo was born as much out of mutual frustration with 15 minutes of bad acting and 5 minutes of butchered sex as any other reason. Viewers and performers alike were ready for something more focused on just sex. Has it gotten stale? Of course. Too many clueless filmmakers and disinterested performances. I still see more good sex scenes in this environment than I ever witnessed in the golden age.
I might add that Veronica Hart was the premiere actress of her time, possibly all time in porn, and a very hot woman to boot. I would have loved to have seen her in something with the scope of Fashionistas where all of her talents could have been mined equally.
saratoga120
Senior Member

1404 Posts
5/05
Posted - Mar 6 2006 : 7:31AM
Veronica's always been a smart cookie and I take what she says very seriously -- she's been there from almost the beginning.

I had the happy pleasure to watch her dance at New York's Show World (a seedy porno emporium in Times Square when it was squalid and not the chain store magnet it is today). It was her first show of the day, a weekday like at one o'clock, and there were all of about three people in the audience. Ever the professional, in spite of it all, Veronica was magnificent. Cheery, well-choreographed -- and sexy as hell. After the show she was as charming in person as her professional personality suggests she'd be.

My next memorable "contact" with her was while I was on vacation in Maine one summer and who should pop up on NPR's "Talk to the Nation" but Jane Hamilton, (Veronica's real name).

Defending her industry with the kind of earthy eloquence I'd long admired her for, she blew away the carping contingent of naysayers on the program and fielded quite a few sympathetic calls from the public.

I really can't tell you how glad I am that it's all worked out so well for this gorgeous, distinctive woman.

By the way, I just learned this past week that she did a nude stint on "Six Feet Under" in recent years. Anyone see this?

Flash All-Star Supporter
Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01
Posted - Mar 6 2006 : 11:11AM
I think that directors/companies/etc have allowed the per sex act change filming techniques. Just because the way an actor or actress has been paid has changed doesn't remove the ablility to make an adult film. See Pirates, Nic Andrews' work, Jonathan Morgan's work, Michael Raven's work, etc. I'll agree with the fact that many gonzo films appear to becoming clinical in their selection of camera angles. Note I said many and not all. Some films you can inticipate what angle will be used next just from your knowledge of the camera man. I think what has hurt the adult industry the most was the switch from film to video tape. Not that films produced on video tape are crap, but with film what was going to happen had to be thought out more due to cost. With video, you can just film tape upon tape upon tape with no thought and try to make it work in editing. I think if video tape or now DV tapes were thought of as film and everything was thought out more we'd end up seeing more variety in the angles and shots used.
Rey de Azulejos
Member

San Pornando Valley
153 Posts
12/05
Posted - Mar 6 2006 : 3:24PM
Opinions are like assholes........ everyones got one.
 
DOYLE
Member

143 Posts
2/06
Posted - Mar 6 2006 : 4:51PM
Wow!!!!!!!! what an original axiom, you are so so badass. Yeah and message boards are almost all opinion so its kind od a dumb coment.
Yankey Doodel
Member

283 Posts
11/05
Posted - Mar 7 2006 : 3:29AM
It's interesting about mysogony and 'clinical' predictability in porn regarding the past and present. It's obvious that modern porn succeeds in some ways much better than the oldies, but I think it's traded in alot of its thrill in the meantime. My own interest in classic porn comes as much from just watching people get it on as it does from a facscintion for exploitation films, especially from that era, one of the most important criterea of which, for me, is not knowing what to expect or what might occur in the next scene. So to me a bad classic is more fun than a decent modern porno; even in the more predictable classics I sense an atmosphere of excitement and novelty just at what's being made, and the more primitive techniques add to that feeling.
So having enjoyed all variety of exploitation flicks, I can easily watch something like 'I Spit On Your Grave' and the meaner roughie porns she presumably refers to in the interview, with a bag of popcorn and be happily amused or even emotionally moved. Yet when I see scenes of sexual brutality that were probably designed to satisfy the same type of audience, but in the modern context, I usually get disgusted and mad at my TV.
It could be that watching classic roughies and the like from a historical perspective can soften the experience, but I don't really think that's the thing. To me it seems like the real difference is that in the old days the victims of tortures were usually characters in a narrative, within films that usually look like they were fun, new and exciting to make. Whereas in an Extreme Associates type of movie the girl often seems to be portrayed, without character motivation, as a representative for the whole female half of the race, to be spit on, yelled at, ridiculed and punished for femaleness.
I don't mean this as any kind of rant against rough sex in the Joey Silvera sense or 'circus acts', which are really standards in current porn and not extremes. I'm not condemning anything or anyone for liking it, just making some observations that came to me from the original post.
I'm no expert on the modern stuff, but from what I've seen it seems sort of ironic that an originator of gonzo, Stagliano, seems to have retained the most about what made the classics fun as 'movies', rather than just edited series' of shots.
dac
David Aaron Clark

Just another WKW wannabe
574 Posts
2/04
Posted - Mar 7 2006 : 3:16PM
Great post, Yankey.

Yankey Doodle wrote:.

It could be that watching classic roughies and the like from a historical perspective can soften the experience, but I don't really think that's the thing. To me it seems like the real difference is that in the old days the victims of tortures were usually characters in a narrative, within films that usually look like they were fun, new and exciting to make. Whereas in an Extreme Associates type of movie the girl often seems to be portrayed, without character motivation, as a representative for the whole female half of the race, to be spit on, yelled at, ridiculed and punished for femaleness.


"alt porn is like the Hot Topic of erotica" -- Smut Mutant

Edited by - dac on 3/7/2006 3:29:40 PM

-Kelly-
Senior Member

2517 Posts
5/03
Posted - Mar 7 2006 : 3:23PM
+1 everything Yankey said, particularly the section highlighted by DAC

I've had similar experiences with watching so-called classic porn in comparison to modern porn.

Edited by - -Kelly- on 3/7/2006 4:08:52 PM

rc7394
Senior Member

1109 Posts
8/04
Posted - Mar 7 2006 : 4:13PM
The camera angles have definitely improved. Back in the 1970's there was no where for them to go but to improve. They were horrible back then. You were lucky if you saw a full body shot or both partners in once shot for 10 seconds. And the closeups back then? Come one.

There are a few "directors" nowadays who call themselves "directors" who don't know how to shoot a sex scene in my opinion. They are usually young actors turned directors.

Edited by - rc7394 on 3/7/2006 4:13:56 PM

Lazerus
Member

187 Posts
9/03
Posted - Mar 7 2006 : 6:11PM
+1 not only what Yankey said, but for Kelly also in posting Veronica's comments.

It seems that a lot of the serious discussions on this board, whether about rough sex and the depictions of women, unprotected sex, underage stuff, etc., are in reality about this idea of "social responsibility." Many of the older pornographers, whether because of the era in which they worked, criticisms of the genre, the history of prosecution, or whatever, thought a lot more about the images they were throwing up on the screen, and the way in which viewers would receive them. They asked these kinds of questions to themselves.

Even Max Hardcore videos in the early days (1992) had a disclaimer at the end reminding viewers that this was just fantasy, and that no self-respecting male should behave like Max does in the movie. (Except that the videos celebrated this character, where older films, as Hart describes, would have vilified him)

So Hart begs this question: Should pornographers take social responsibility for the depictions they produce? Or is it even an important issue? I think the question is at the heart of most of the debates about things we see in porn these days. Which is why I think Hart's perspective is so interesting.

Sheldon
Member

263 Posts
9/04
Posted - Mar 9 2006 : 7:43AM
It's difficult to take what Veronica Hart says seriously about social responsibility. This is the same woman who bragged about not working with black men (or women) in a panel discussion on porn that appeared in a tabloid-style film magazine called "Jump Cut!"

This is the same woman who fired Lexington Steele before he was supposed to do an IR scene for VCA days after the Cambria List was released.

Rey de Azulejos
Member

San Pornando Valley
153 Posts
12/05
Posted - Mar 9 2006 : 3:57PM
Are you bored? Is that what it is?



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