"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - May 5 2012 : 12:00PM
In the near future, I'm planning on getting a new computer. There's a very good chance I'm going to build one myself. In fact, I just may build a fairly tricked-out system. I'm not a gamer, so I don't plan on dropping an $800 video card in (a $100, $200 max, would seem to handle all my needs). As a matter of fact, the onboard video capabilities (processing power) of a 3rd generation Core i7 processor are so good that, the only real need for a video card is to supply your outputs for your monitors. My primary video needs are processing and transcoding video -- not gaming -- and these type tasks are best handled with quality software running on powerful processors, anyway. What do we think of this MSI N430GT-MD4GD3 GeForce GT 430 Video Card - 4096MB, DDR3, PCI-Express 2.0 (x16), 1x Dual-Link DVI, 1x HDMI, 1x VGA, DirectX 11, Single-Slot video card for $94.99? I want to have both HDMI and VGA on the card (not VGA available via an adapter). OK. So, as I'm checking-out components and prices, I get the bright idea that, maybe, just maybe, I would use a solid-state-drive, instead of a conventional hard-drive, as my "C" drive (wherein I would just have my OS and program files), and use conventional hard-drives to store files on. Can you imagine a Core i7 processor running your OS from a solid-state-drive! Do we think that solid-state-drives are now ready for primetime? Would you trust one as your "C" drive? Here are a few articles to consider: SSD Myths and Legends -- Write Endurance Solid-State Drive Review 2012 OCZ Vertex 2 2012 I would be inclined to go with a 256-GB drive. On my current system, I've used a 256-GB hard-drive as my "C" drive (and a second internal drive to store things on), and have never been remotely challenged for capacity issues on the "C" drive. OCZ VTX4-25SAT3-256G Vertex 4 256GB Solid State Drive $299.99 Comments and suggestions are welcome. Some of you may even have been down this path recently :)
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - May 5 2012 : 12:11PM
just got into SSDs not too long ago. I read a lot of SandForce problems and stayed away from these drives, although I hear the new generataion SF SSDs are somewhat better at bugs. For nonSF drives, 2 come to mind. Intel 320 or 510 SSDs. These are more expensive and not as fast as others, but they are much more stable and less problematic (performance tradeoff of stability). Other series with good performance is Crucial M4s. I have both Intel 510 and Crucial M4. Size, recommend at least 128-120GB. If you can afford it, 250-256GB to allow growth. As for last gen OCZs (<=3 not most recent 4), I've heard high risk high reward. I've heard lots of problems with crashed for OCZs. As for GPUs, even though you don't I recommend at least a cheap graphics card. Even though you don't do gaming, there's a huge jump in onboard video vs even budget GPUs. Plus new GPUs have good algorithms and video playback enhancements quality enhancements (just look at these benchmark articles - HD Video Quality: HQV 2.0 Benchmark).
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - May 5 2012 : 12:35PM
I didn't say no graphics card. What do you think of the $94.99 card I linked to as far as meeting my needs? I was saying that, as a non-gamer, I don't see any need for the "$800 video card" for my purposes. (I also don't want to slap on a "$24.95 card," either -- ROFL.) I could easily wind-up spending $2,000 - $3,000 putting together a very high-end system. So, an appropriate level of video card is an important consideration. I've fantasized about possibly using Adobe Premiere, but really don't want to drop that kind of money. Here are Adobe's requirements. I'm debating whether to pony-up for a card that meets their requirements -- but, maybe that is a purchase best delayed until I actually, if ever, buy Adobe Premiere, and what their requirements are at that time. BTW, Adobe requirements state "7200 RPM hard drive (multiple fast disk drives, preferably RAID 0 configured, recommended)" -- and I wonder if this would be a problem if I go the SSD route? Honestly, if I could really find out what video software the quality porn studios are using, I would probably go with that in a heartbeat. I'm very good with editing porn for my own needs, but I'd love to be fluent with the industry standard programs. If I say so myself, I do a much better job editing than 90% of the porn DVDs I've been watching, and I secretly harbor the dream of editing porn for a living. I'll have the system for it. And, if I already know the right software, I just might take a shot at it :)
I felt the same way last year after buying a new, powerful, PC that didn't include an SSD. It took forever to power up and I figured that I needed an SSD to fix that. And I figured that it would make everything else faster (even though my machine was very fast, once it powered up). I ended up buying a 256MB Crucial SSD. It runs extremely fast in all hard drive test utilities. But it did virtually nothing to speed up the power on process on my PC, which is bogged down by all of the hardware in and attached to my PC (internal HD's, external HD's, DVD drives, Blu-ray drives, printer, scanner, NAS, etc...). Do my applications startup any faster? Probably. But if a data hard drive needs to wake up in order to the load data for those applications, the SSD doesn't speed things up any faster. Since Goldstein is looking to use his new PC for processing and encoding video, I'm making the assumption that there will me multiple data hard drives to store those video files. So, he's probably in a similar boat to me. Personally, I got a whole lot more mileage by spending more money on a high end CPU and a couple of high end (at the time) video cards (I have 2 of the same card that I recommended to Goldstein). Overall, I save a whole lot more time encoding video files faster, by having more power, than the SSD card will ever save me. Of all of the things that I've bought for my PC, the $500+ that I spend on my SSD was probably the worst investment that I made.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - May 5 2012 : 10:22PM
I've put SSDs in a laptop and 3 desktops. (Normal computers, not editing bays.) I didn't buy high capacity, bleeding edge ones, either; humble Kingston ones with big rebates. They boot up much faster, they shut down almost instantly, they install Windows and program updates much faster, they run virus checks much faster, they open and close applications much faster. Just a much smoother, less delay-prone user experience. I'd never go back.
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - May 6 2012 : 11:44AM
Bill, I'm likely to be going with a 3rd generation Core i7 processor, which are just about the fastest most powerful consumer CPUs you can buy. I'm thinking along these lines: Intel Core i7-3770 BX80637i73770 Processor - Quad Core, 8MB L3 Cache, 3.40GHz (3.90GHz Max Turbo), Socket H2 (LGA1155), 77W, Fan, Retail $319.99 Possibly, a proven 2nd generation Core i7 like: Intel Core i7-2700K BX80619i72700K Unlocked Processor - Quad Core, 8MB L3 Cache, 1MB L2 Cache, 3.50 GHz (3.90 GHz Max Turbo), Socket H2 (LGA1155), 95W, Fan, Retail $339.99 I don't see any reason to look beyond quad-core processors (e.g. at six-core i7's, etc.). I'm still up-in-the-air on the SSD. On paper they look like a great way to go. They are even being offered on consumer builds, which means that the manufacturers have to be covering them with their warranties. HP, for example, wants a $500 upcharge to custom build with a 256-GB SSD. Their price is just ridiculous, and you can't even determine what brand of SSD they then provide. But, it does show that they have enough confidence in the technology to use them and warranty them (2-year HP warranties on their custom desktop builds come as standard). Crike! Run amok, one could easily spend $4,000 building their own high-end system When I started looking at this, I looked over the HP options, tricked them out, and found out I was looking at $2,000 units. I quickly determined that, I could build my own system -- with higher quality components -- for that kind of money. I'd like to keep what I build to $2,000, but will go to $2,500. I just received a large check, and I could spend just about "whatever" if I were to "lose control," but I don't want to just throw money away (if you get what I mean). Then, there's also buying new updated software for a Windows 7 system. I've been running XP SP3 up until now, so 7 will require updated software, as well. Also, I'll be moving from the IDE world to the Serial ATA world, so all new internal hardware, as well. I'm eternally grateful that I dodged Vista, and I have no interest in playing games with Windows 8. DDR3 memory seems to be so cheap that I'm planning on 16-MB of RAM. (I'm even inclined to limit my mother board options to boards that will support up to 32-MB.) Hell, if you guys push me hard enough, I might even pop for Nvidia's new GeForce GTX 680 graphics card. It's very difficult to resist the VIP room when you have the money in your grubby little paws. It's AVN week and the hottest dancer in the club is hinting at you getting a blowjob, if only you'd take her to the VIP room. Did I mention you've had a few drinks? To be continued...
If you're looking for the ability to pick and choose all of the components in your new machine, take a look at CyberpowerPC. Although they specialize in gaming machines, they have models optimized for other applications. With all of their configurations, they start with a suggested configuration, but allow you to modify virtually anything that you want. So, you can start with one of their HD Video configurations and work your way up from one of the lower models or down from the high end model, to get to your desired configuration/price point.
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - May 6 2012 : 2:07PM
If I read correctly, this is my recommendation. Budget is big factor in systems. CPU - diminishing returns of after 2500K-2600K Intel, unless you are doing heavy multicore >4 core processes (6 core) (i.e., Core i7-3770 waste compared to 2500-2600K). Save money and buy retail CPUs at MicroCenter high discount for retail box. RAM - Anything beyond DDR3 PC3-12800/ 1600MHz is a waste and diminishing returns - all benchmark reviews show this, except for maybe lower CAS (7-8) latency modules. 16GB would be optimal for your use. Motherboard - don't skimp on motherboard. Gigabyte one of best for least issues. HDs - you don't need a 256GB SSD. 120-128GB system/OS drive would be more than fine and put all programs and OS on it for only $120-160. In this get a 128GB SSD for OS/programs and large traditional 7,200RPM 1TB-2TB WD or Seagate for large files and large project active space. Case - get decent case, saves lots of time on upgrades, reduces thermals, and good expansion PSU - more underrated component, heard bad stories of bad PSUs killing motherboard. You can get a decent one for okay money now. Budget and leave room for Power/Wattage and growth/future expansion. Graphics cards, you can make an entire different thread. Just stay away from on-board. Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 5/6/2012 2:09:11 PM
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - May 6 2012 : 3:02PM
What do you guys think about a WD VelociRaptor<brSATA Hard Drives as the "C" drive? May be the traditional way to get a lot of speed without the lifespan issues SSDs may (or may not) introduce? From WD:I especially like this claim:The WD VelociRaptor SATA Hard Drives just may be the better choice when it comes to video work. The larger sizes, versus SSDs, would also give programs lots of room to throw files all over the place :) I actually think the VelociRaptor drives are available up to 1-TB now. I could make a case for a 300 or 600-GB as a "C" drive, and another 1-TB VelociRaptor as the 2nd drive. After that, I would use 2 or 3-TB "normal" 7200-RPM drives for storage purposes (things that will seldom, if ever, get altered once they get stored). I've always been partial to WD drives. I've had about 15, and not a single one has ever failed me. A lot of people and retailers seem to be pushing the Seagate Barracuda drives. I was almost convinced that their reliability was acceptable. However, I just worked on a friend's 2-year old Dell desktop where the Seagate Baracuda drive just died. Good one day; dead the next -- with absolutely no warning of any problems.
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - May 6 2012 : 3:53PM
^ They were a good solution back mid-2000s to a few years ago. They blew away 7200RPMs, but they are expensive and alternative to pricey SSDs. The problem is SSD prices have come down and even blow the VelociRaptors performance. So price and performance now goes to SSDs. The only advantage is their lack of wear or write-cycles like SSDs (longitiivty). This review by Anandtech (the best website I use often) shows how most recent VR is destroyed and sum it up well. "The biggest problem for the new VR today is the same issue we had two years ago: SSDs are much faster, and are quickly becoming more affordable. As a primary drive I wouldn't recommend the VelociRaptor simply because you can get a better overall experience with an SSD. We have a number of very reliable, reasonably affordable (128GB), high-performing SSD options to choose from. Intel's lineup, Samsung's SSD 830 and Crucial's m4 all come to mind. As secondary storage, the new VelociRaptor appeals to those users who need more capacity than an SSD can affordably offer, for active use. Launching applications, games, and working on (not just streaming for playback) large data files are all going to be quicker on the VR than on a standard 3.5" drive. If you're building the ultimate workstation, you could use an SSD + VR for internal storage coupled with some larger, slower drives in RAID as a backup or for your more passive data (movies, music, edited photos). For most users however, I'd honestly recommend an SSD plus a couple of large, 5400/7200RPM drives in RAID-1 for everything you can't store on your SSD. While the Raptor line was quickly embraced by the enthusiast, I believe it has transitioned exclusively to a workstation role."
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Jul 15 2012 : 12:37PM
^ pretty good build but what about video card? Also I know lots of people like to use the onboard (motherboard) audio and it's okay for most things, but from all your other components looks like you are going to watch and do multimedia. A $50 sound card blows away onboard audio in everything and only $50 more. Asus makes really good sound cards and better driver support than Creative (many hardcore hardware builders have left Creative for Asus and others). I have a Xonar D1 card that is spectacular and plays flawless. You can get an ever cheaper Asus card that is 1 hex than onboard. ASUS Xonar DS 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Audio Card
He addressed this at the bottom of his postThe motherboard that he chose has graphics capabilities. Goldstein isn't playing video games with his new machine. So, he's waiting to see if he really needs an additional graphics card.
Very nice. Good luck with your new setup. I have two comments. First, I don't understand why you went with the Lite-On DVD ROM Drive when Lite-On's corresponding DVD Burner is less expensive and gives you a backup burner if you have a problem with the Plextor. Second, with all of the hard drives and DVD/Blu-ray drives you have, I hope that you have better success with the Solid State Drive than I have. Although my machine is extremely fast at opening programs using the SSD, it still takes a long time to boot up because of all of the other hardware that is connected. Some of my hardware is external, USB based, so that probably causes more delay than the hardware that you are installing. But, I don't know that you will be as happy with the SSD as you expect to be. Edited by - Bill on 7/15/2012 4:26:47 PM
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Jul 15 2012 : 5:38PM
Because the DVD-ROM drive has faster DVD Read Speed (18x) and faster DVD Access Time (105 ms) than the Lite-On IHAS124-04 burning drive -- and read-only will be its primary mission within my system. The Sony Optiarc BD-5300S-03 Internal 12x Blu-ray Burner Drive gives me a backup burning drive to the Plextor. This way I have two burning drives and I don't have to grind either one down (and freeing the Blu-ray drive from burning DVD+/-R disks, which will still be the overwhelming majority of disk burning I expect to be doing). Going with this three optical drive setup, I could -- theoretically -- copy disks from one drive to another, and still be able to continue working with the third optical drive. God knows, the Core i7-3770K with 32GB of 1600 MHz DDR3 RAM should be able to handle almost anything I throw at it :)What I am expecting from the SSD is the ability to run the OS and programs as quickly as possible once the system has already booted-up. I don't really care if I have an operating Windows desktop in 30-seconds or 60-seconds or a minute and 30-seconds. And, regardless of the actual boot time, I'm sure that it will still be as fast as is possible with the build. Coming from my XP SP3 IDE world, maxed-out at 2GB RAM, this system will be like greased-lightning. BTW, I have many external USB drives now, BUT, my practice is to leave them unplugged unless I need to be using them. I plan on continuing this practice with the new build system. The 2 x 3TB = 6TB of internal archive drive storage, with the two Western Digital WD30EZRX Caviar Green internal hard drives, will allow me to store anything I want, for as long as I want, before burning DVD backups and moving things to my external USB archive drives. So, absolutely no need to leave my external USB drives connected all the time (plus the savings on electrical usage, and -- in Florida -- unplugged means no exposure to lightning strike damage). And, yes, there is a tremendous and noticeable difference in boot-times when you have external USB drives plugged-in all the time, and even noticeable during use (as they keep "going to sleep" and "waking-up" as they aren't and are being accessed).
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Jul 15 2012 : 5:47PM
Yes. And, going with the Ultra 1050-watt power supply gives the reserve power to add any high-end GPU (or two!) that I may choose to add :) And, another thing... Goldstein has virtually zero interest in gaming, now or in the future, and even less than zero interest in 3-D video, TV or movies. My primary focus is transcoding, editing, creating and burning video -- porn especially -- and the Core i7-3770K with 32GB of RAM will burn through these tasks faster than an Apple laptop battery before it explodes Secretly, I'd like to wind-up doing sub-contracting video-editing and authoring for the porn industry. Then, like all good middle-aged perverts with penis-replacement strategies (like fancy cars, graphite-shafts and trophy-wives), I will buy the biggest, hardest, baddest, most phallic GPU necessary to accomplish the mission :) Edited by - Goldstein on 7/15/2012 6:02:07 PM
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Jul 15 2012 : 6:42PM
Yeah thrown off on the 1K PSU. Also, graphics cards offer more than just gaming. They have better playback and correction to them (linked in a previous article). Also remember they offload some of the graphic load on the CPU to dedicated GPU, free up more CPU resources. One concern I see if the CPU heatsink. Even it not overclocking, with video editing and AV (audio editing) and transcoding, you are putting extremely high loads on your CPU and if you do this enough, you just want to minimize thermals as much as you can so your CPU will last longer. DIdn't see a CPU heatsink and Intel stock heatsinks blow donkey *&%#&. Even cheap $20-30 heatsinks lower CPU temps by a lot. It just kills me to see all the money on a system like that but not even a $50 video card which will help with things like larger buffers too.
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Jul 15 2012 : 8:26PM
^ Did you see the heat-sinks built on the motherboard, and the monstrous fan-cooling capacity that comes with the case? The case also features high-end cable management (better air-flow due to no cables cluttering-up the case interior), and is completely prepared and ready for water-cooling should I need to pursue it. Believe me, Goldstein isn't going to let anything run hot and damage anything -- this is a big investment. Also, NO OVER-CLOCKING! I'm considering adding a Ballistix Active Cooling Fan to the mix, once I get what I've already ordered set-up and running, and see what tweaks, if any, need to be made. In addition to improving cooling for the RAM in particular, this also helps stir-up the air in the case, and help prevent hot spots from developing. I'm not spending $2,500+ (before even buying any software) to let the system be compromised for lack of cooling, or suffer inferior video for lack of a "$50" GPU. If I wind-up buying a GPU -- and it will be the right GPU to meet the demands of any software (like Adobe Premiere) and hardware I will be using -- it will more likely be in the $400-$500 high-end Nvidia category. The most wasteful mistakes, IMHO, are made trying to buy absolutely every component up-front, without any shake-down cruise, before you see where any weaknesses and needs are in the build. Unless people have tried building their own systems (and I know you have and are familiar with it), I don't think they realize the amount of time the planning and vetting takes. For example, most of the whiners in reviews are people who try to mate components together that aren't meant to work together (e.g. trying to use 3rd-generation Core i7/i5/i3 processors with boards with the Z68 chipset -- you need the Z77 chipset on Socket H2 LGA1155 boards if you want it to work properly). Or, even buying the correct memory (e.g. all 1600 MHz DDR3 RAM is not created equal -- the ASUS P8Z77-V motherboard, for example, does not support memory sticks built with "DIMMs made up of 512Mb chips or less" -- and that's most sticks 4GB or less that are currently being sold). In any event, this build will run, and run well and with acceptable video, as it stands (and certainly afford me time to evaluate any tweaks and additions, like a GPU, before I rush into spending money on the wrong/insufficient/incompatible items). Even Goldstein doesn't know everything about every component out there
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Jul 15 2012 : 8:48PM
Even if you're not overclocking, if you're doing stuff that has the CPU pegged for sustained periods, I would think that the stock heatsink fan is going to be running fast and LOUD.
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Jul 15 2012 : 9:22PM
Why not? Just kidding. Not sure how much experience you have (so please ignore if you know), but remember, if you agree that Intel heatsink sucks and don't wanna use it, people usually don't mount it to just take it off and replace a better heatsink. If you don't use it, it means you start using your computer without a heatsink which isn't advisable (which is why it's good to get the good heatsink when you build everything instead of later). Here's a good example of what Harri and I are talking about about heavy CPU loads and Intel sinks. Also don't forget 120mm (or 80mm) case fans for good general airflow. Even if you aren't doing overclocking, stress testing is good idea (Prime95 is best, OCCT is good too) and you need to make sure you get all cooling parts in place before you even think of stress testing. Also remember to use thermal compound for heatsink (which usually requires stress testing for burn in phase). Good luck with your build. 100% CPU load - Intel 70C load compared to 40Cs. Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 7/15/2012 9:26:15 PM
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Jul 15 2012 : 9:50PM
"My primary video needs are processing and transcoding video" Doesn't that involve the CPU running full-bore until the job is done? Basically like running that Prime95 thing, or Folding@Home?
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 9:06AM
Right. So my current XP SP3 machine, maxed-out with 2GB RAM, with whatever stock piece-of-shit cooling fan(s) it came with, does these tasks (i.e. "processing and transcoding video") without breaking a sweat (although, obviously, now much too slowly for me to stand it anymore). And, I doubled the power supply, and have two optical drives and two 7200-RPM hard drives running constantly, as well. But, I buy Intel's flagship processor, put it in a case the size of a walk-in closet with enormous cooling fans, run it with a virtually heatless SSD "C" drive, give it all the power supply it can stand and 32GB RAM (so that whatever processing done is done as quickly as possible), and I'm going to have a melt-down? All because I'm going to do the same things -- although faster and more efficiently than an 8-year-old consumer desktop running XP -- that I'm doing now? Even my new lowly Windows 7 laptop, with a 5400-RPM hard drive, an Core i5 processor and only 8GB RAM, does these tasks without running hot or pitching a fit Getting back to my new case: Corsair Obsidian Series® 650D Mid Tower Case - ATX, Micro ATX, 4x Ext 5.25", 6x Int 3.5", 2x 200mm Fans, 1x 120mm Fan, 4x USB 2.0, 1x USB 3.0, 1x IEEE 1394, 4-Channel Fan Controller and, at the mfr. Obsidian Series 650D Notice the removable panel (I've marked with a red "X") that is designed to facilitate removing and swapping processor cooling solutions down the road should the need arise. Now, just for computer geek fun, check-out my case's bigger brother: Corsair Obsidian 800D Full Tower Case - Steel, ATX, 4x 120mm Fan Ports, 3x 140mm Fans The cooling fans and approach are different, BUT, what I want you to do is play the video and observe how the various case components and cooling solutions work (like the removable processor access panel both cases share). Warning: Computer geeks may experience embarrassing stiffies
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 9:16AM
Here's a cool blog a guy posted about his build in the Corsair Obsidian Series® 650D Mid-Tower case (the one I have): Silent, or Close to It: 650D + Intel Sandy Bridge/P67 Build Log Be sure to play his "Now We Turn On The Power" video! And, yes, Goldstein notes that Mike has installed a Corsair Hydro Series H60 liquid cooling solution for his processor. Goldstein will cross this bridge if and when he has too Edited by - Goldstein on 7/16/2012 9:18:31 AM
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 9:49AM
I have a case that looks almost exactly like that except it has 2 120mm fans on the bottom, Antec Eleven Hundred, and it's great airflow, cable management (but best is easy 3.5" mounting system). You shouldn't need a water cooling system (usually only needed for extreme overclocking where you are pumping lots of voltage thru chips, even my OC experiments haven't needed one and I've hit 4.5GHz as temps never get that high), if you get a decent heatsink. I have the Sony Optiarc BD-5300S drive as well and it's work great. Dont' forget the thermal compound.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 5:50PM
It doesn't matter how much ram you have, what case you're using, how many case fans you have, how many watts the power supply puts out, etc. What matters is that you're going to have a quad-core CPU running at 100%, which generates a lot of heat which has to be dissipated. I'm sure that Intel provides a heatsink and fan which is capable of keeping the CPU from damaging itself, even if run at full blast all the time in a poorly vented case in a non-air conditioned room in a tropical climate. But I'm also fairly sure that the fan they provide is a little fan which runs at high speed and makes a lot of noise. If you want to spend $2500 on a computer and then listen to a 40 or 60 mm fan running at 4,000 or 5,000 or 6,000 rpm, go ahead. I sure wouldn't.
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 12:32AM
Excellent point about the noise. Noisy fans suck. But I have to disagree with the other part. Although Intel heatsinks are fine for 90% of the users (office, low end multimedia, websurfing...), not sure they are designed to cover hardcore users with systems running at 70-100% CPU loads for long intervals. WOuld it kill it, probably not, but excessive heat isn't good for CPU (e.g., lifespan) and there are much better choices for controlling thermals. Why run a system with CPU running at 70-80C at 80-100% load, when it could be <50C (thousands of hours CPU running at 75C?).
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 8:36AM
^ While you guys keep fretting over it, Goldstein is quite content to install the cooling fan that comes with the Core i7-3770K and see what the actual performance and temperature ranges maintained are before seeking out an alternative cooling solution. One thing that is known is that, the i7-3770K processor does run hotter than the i-2600 and i-2700K 2nd generation processors did. Intel knows this, and, especially since the i7-3770K is sold as unlocked (thus attracting the over-clocking crowd) and packaged with a fan, Goldstein is inclined to believe that the packaged fan will meet a certain level of performance, and that it will probably be better than what many people believe Intel provides (i.e. lacking). As I've discussed, the Corsair Obsidian Series 650D case is designed to make switching-out processor cooling solutions easy and accessible (i.e. you don't have to remove the motherboard in order to perform the task). As I have repeatedly stated, I am open to upgrading the processor cooling solution (and/or adding a GPU) once I see how the assembled system actually performs. I also believe that, the system will perform satisfactorily -- and safely -- at least long enough for me to assess everything before making an informed opinion and then ordering any upgrades and tweaks. And, Harri, if the stock processor cooling fan isn't noisy enough for me, I have plans to attach some baseball cards to the fan blades, so that I can get a nice motorcycle revving effect as the fan speeds up and slows down Edited by - Goldstein on 7/18/2012 10:11:32 AM
Nope. I dealt with this when I installed my SSD. Once my machine is up and running, the drive is fast. The machine just boots up really slow. Actually, now that I think of it, while ACHI sped up the drive, I thinks that it slowed down the bootup time (Gigabyte Motherboard). I also got lucky after going to ACHI. I have a couple of Samsung 2TB hard drives in my machine. A few months after I converted to ACHI, Samsung discovered that they had a firmware bug that was causing corrupt data to be written in some cases when using ACHI and issued a firmware patch (which I immediately applied). Luckily, I didn't have any problems. Edited by - Bill on 7/17/2012 10:41:36 PM
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Jul 19 2012 : 1:47PM
What do you guys think about this as a possible GPU? It's in a comfortable price-range, and I like the I/O ports selection. Also, liking the PCI Express 3.0 connection (which my ASUS P8Z77-V motherboard has and supports). Expecting that compatibility would be excellent with both GPU and MoBo being ASUS. ASUS GT640-2GD3 $114.99 at TigerDirect Edited to add: I'm also thinking that the HDCP support on the GPU card may be necessary/required if I want to watch Blu-ray on anything more than a VGA monitor. Also, considering the Samsung S23A700D 23" Class Widescreen 3D LED Backlit Monitor - 1920 x 1080, 16:9, Mega Dynamic Contrast Ratio, Real 120Hz, 2ms, HDMI, DVI, 3D Capable, as a suitable monitor for this system. I already have an earlier Samsung SyncMaster P-2370 monitor that I love to death (it has a single DVI input). With my new build, I'd like to take advantage of DVI and/or HDMI quality for my monitor connection(s). The key thing my P-2370 has, as does the new Samsung S23A700D 23", is the 2ms response time. I consider this essential when watching and working with video. I can see the difference as compared to 5ms (or, god forbid, 9ms) monitors, and I'm just not satisfied with anything less than 2ms. Edited by - Goldstein on 7/29/2012 12:27:36 PM
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Jul 19 2012 : 9:05PM
^ I'm not sure, but I read that even the highest end PCI-E video cards can't benefit from PCI-E 3.0 yet (more future), but I could be wrong. I was going to recommend a good HTPC video card, but not sure if you are using any programs like MediaEspresso, where certain cards give you much better performance (saving time encoding) than other models, even $20 difference can give major %. Oh yeah a couple more things. I usually recommend people get cards with GDDR5 instead of GDDR3, but that's just me. Also, another thing is if you are going to use multiple monitor (dual display). Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 7/19/2012 9:07:00 PM
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 6:35PM
THis is why graphic cards aren't just for gaming. There's so much variation between image/video performance even between graphic cards. Noise/artifact reduction, conversion, scaling... Anandtec
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 11:31PM
Reviews I've been reading suggest that, the GT640 cards would be a good buy in the $80 range and/or by adding the GDDR5 memory to the cards (which some reviewers suggest that Nvidia is making available on some OEM versions, but not on consumer versions yet). It seems like just a matter of time -- which would validate my "wait a bit" strategy :) Like I said previously, I like the output ports mix, the fact that it supports PCI Express 3.0 and that it features the newest Kepler architecture. Learning about GPU cards really has a high learning-curve. IMHO, the fact that older products and new products are being sold side-by-side, even within the same "series," makes it even more confusing (especially if you haven't looked at a GPU product in years). FYI, even with a high-end approved GPU, Adobe Premiere has so many other demands and gotchas that, I think I'm ruling it out. (Which makes my ultimate choice of GPU card a bit easier.) FYI, interesting website.
I'm with Harri. I would strongly suggest that you upgrade your CPU cooler. I have the COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus on two different computers. The reviews on Newegg are overwhelming good, it's one of their best-selling CPU coolers, it's incredibly inexpensive at $19.99 with free shipping (and right now, with a $5.00 rebate if you're inclined to bother), and it's extremely well made. If your motherboard has fan-control software (or you install SpeedFan), you can adjust the noise/cooling ratio to suit your tastes. As you'd be changing out coolers, I'd also suggest buying Arctic Silver Thermal Material Remover & Surface Purifier. ------------------ Edited by - bob on 7/24/2012 2:41:54 PM
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 7:20PM
I have a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Plus for one of my systems too! On all reviews they are just as good as $50 ones and perform great for only $20. Easily best bang for the buck with CPU coolers. Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 7/22/2012 7:21:10 PM
True, but it takes up vertical space that isn't needed for anything else and nothing on the motherboard is blocked. Eight copper heat-pipes from the CPU-contact-point travel up through dozens of thin aluminum plates, allowing the cooler to dissipate heat effectively. Also, the large fan can spin more slowly (and quietly) than a smaller fan to move the requisite amount of air. The first time I installed it, it was a huge pain in the ass, because the documentation sucks. I found an installation video on YouTube, though. The second time, I was able to mount it in a matter of minutes.
I have a similar tiering arrangement with my hard drives, although they all have less capacity than yours. My C-Drive is a Vertex 2 SSD, 90 GB, which is large enough to function well as a system drive, with sufficient room for documents and family photos. Then I have a Velociraptor 150 GB that is partitioned into four logical drives: one for downloading (to save wear and tear on the SSD), one for certain temp files (ditto), one for an internal backup drive, and one for limited storage. Then I have two Western Digital Caviar Black HD's (1 TB each) for storage. ----------------------- Edited by - bob on 7/22/2012 8:54:38 PM
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 10:34PM
^ I don't understand the 3 tier HD arrangement. SSD is for OS and programs obviously, but what do you use the Velociraptor for? Pagefile/swap space? Some 7200RPM drives aren't too bad these days. But I guess you guys have a system.
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Jul 23 2012 : 11:12AM
The Velociraptor is used as my "active drive" (i.e. Drive 2). Meaning that, everything that is actively being worked on, downloads, etc. will be directed to the "active drive." I've already been doing this for years with my XP SP3 system (albeit with two regular 7200-RPM drives), and it works well. Every video-editing software I've ever used allows me to specify where, including which drive(s), I want to output my work to. Firefox allows me to direct downloads to wherever I want them (you don't have to go with the default "Downloads" folder it creates on the "C" Drive). In fact, even most everyday programs let you output work to a drive/location you specify. I like to keep my "C" Drive as clean and wide-open as possible; This two-drive approach has worked well for me :) The two "Western Digital WD30EZRX Caviar Green Internal Hard Drive - 3TB, SATA-6G, 64MB" drives will give me an enormous amount of internal "local" storage. I chose these because of their energy-saving and cool operation. They really will be for storage, not "working" space, per se (although I'm sure I'll still be able to view completed video and stored DVDs just fine). We all know there are "faster" drives out there, but they would serve no benefit (in fact, they would just increase operating noise and heat) within my system's design plan.
I might have used a small 7200 RPM drive instead of the Velocipator, but I had the Velociraptor handy because it was my former C-Drive -- and why waste it? It makes backups slightly faster and, as I said, I use it for downloads to limit the amount of writing onto and wiping off of my SSD. I tried using it for pagefile/swap space, but it was just too big a pain in the ass, and the amount of writing to the SSD for that purpose seemed minimal. I have 8 GB's of RAM and so I have experimented with turning off virtual memory entirely and just using the RAM for pagefile/swap space. However, there have been a few occasions when I haven't had enough RAM for that. I plan to have at least 32 GB's of RAM in my next system, so I will move to that configuration then. Generally, I like the tiering arrangement because it keeps different kinds of functions and data segregated. I'd love to build a new computer for kicks, as my RAM is DDR-2 and my processor is an LGA socket 775 Core 2 Quad (Kentsfield). But the machine runs so fast and so well that I can't justify the expense to myself (or to my wife, for that matter).
Also, re tiering: Because I use my computer for work as well as play, I like to have both an internal and an external backup drive for extra redundancy with regard to critical documents and Outlook data.
After all the coin you've already spent, it seems a shame not to go ahead and buy a really kick-ass graphics card. Were I you, I'd probably pop for an AMD Radeon 7950 or 7970 or an Nvida GeForce 670 or 680. But, of course, I'm not you.
