Is it supposed to degrade? I can't say that makes me feel any better about the intended audience.

Edited to add that it doesn't endear the director(s) who would cater to such audiences to me, either.

Edited by - hardware on 4/24/2007 1:09:32 PM

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And for what it's worth, I said I agree with you about that. I didn't hear anyone say they like it when the girls are taken by surprise.

I believe the viewer generally tends to assume that all of the necessary agreements and negotiations have taken place before the camera starts rolling. Thus, when someone says they enjoy watching rough sex, they assume the girl has already agreed. Viewers are being blamed for the sins of directors here. Why would someone want to hold a viewer, who only wants to see fantasy, responsible for the actions of an unethical director? Because we watched and enjoyed? We were under the impression that the talent was working willingly and with foreknowledge of (basically) what was to happen. If that happens to not be so in a particular instance, well I'm sorry but I didn't film the thing.

And more to the point, how do we know what the motivations of any of these people are?

Edited by - randomprecision on 4/24/2007 1:01:19 PM

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I am concerned when that fantasy requires that somebody should be unaware of what's going to happen to them. It would be nice to assume that the 'surprise' is always discussed and agreed to beforehand, but I don't feel that is an assumption we can make. Furthermore, if it is a fantasy, I'm not sure why we should be required to do so. With DVD technology and BTS, it seems easy enough to let the audience in on the discussions about what's going to happen in the scene.

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But frankly....I think that's asking a bit too much from this industry.

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the main point is that I don't like such thing and they're not supposed to be in a movie unless clearly stated anyway after that I'm done with the series and Chico and possibly with both performers

Hope it was my mistake anyway

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I don't see why some kind of "porn oversight committee" can't be established in which the industry would voluntarily police itself. Studios and producers that voluntarily complied with the rules and regulations agreed upon would put a "seal of approval" of sorts on their product. The consumer would know how to distinguish between acting and real abuse. The "committee" would be made up of actual industry insiders . Performers would be included and have a say.

I don't understand why something like this wasn't done long ago. It would be an effort, no doubt. But if it was successful, it could clear up so much nonsense and confusion. If the industry doesn't regulate itself (and that requires organization and structure), the government will, no doubt.

It starts with this kind of thing. Pretty soon, somebody is going to question why she's frowning when the cum splashes across her face. I suppose that will require a 15 minute behind the scenes documentary so she can assure everyone that she is fine, her face didn't melt and she agreed to do it. And then, the critics will say "Well, how do we know there isn't someone there offscreen, coercing her? How do we know they didn't drug her?" And I suppose they would be right. How do we know anything is what it appears to be? We don't we just have to take the world around us at face value or we spend our entire lives second guessing our every move. That's more thought than I'm prepared to put into jacking off, frankly. This should all be taken care of on the business end. The consumer can only assume it has been.

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But for a given scene, does the agreement typically spell out exactly which physical acts are going to happen as well as a scripted play-by-play of when to expect same?

Or is it more generic and reads something like this:

"Rough Sex Scene"
no anal/insertion of anything into anus
oral/vaginal sex only
facial cumshot, one load, swallowing optional
Other acts of "rough sex" may include hair pulling, spitting, flat-handed slaps on the ass, thighs, breasts, face and twisting arms behind back.
Off-limits acts: (performer fills in here)
Price: $1100

If the above were true (I'm most certain it's a silly approximation of an actual contract), then you could still maintain SOME element of "surprise" and true improvisational performance as opposed to a director saying off camera "OK now, line up her face for the spit! Hey sweetie, there's another $100 bucks in it if you open your mouth for it!"

Then again, for all I know, this is EXACTLY how such agreements are done in advance. The directors (well the good ones anyways) want spontaneity in the performance, so they contract for a "type" of scene, add in a bunch of "may includes" and then the two adult performers sign up and agree on same. Now when the time comes, the performers....perform.

The problem here is that we, the viewers, NEVER get to know what was contracted for/agreed upon before the scene. Even if we could get the details in a BTS segment, I doubt most directors would take the time/energy to include it.

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This material can be erotic. Even people who are into it probably aren't going to enjoy the kind that's described in the above post. Unfortunately, it sells enough that they can keep making more.

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BTW would you sign any contract with uncertain terms?
I certainly won't

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For example, a band I was in once signed a contract with a record company on the assumption that they wanted us to make a record. Seems a reasonable assumption, wouldn't you say? It turns out that wasn't really the case, though. They just wanted to take us off the market.

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I've bought real estate countless times with uncertain terms. You can never know whether or not mineral deposits will be found on the property, but they are almost always owned by someone other than the property owner. Same for easement rights. There is no such thing as a "full disclosure" contract out there in many fields. Porn may or may not be one of them.

Along the same lines, however, I sincerely doubt that "normal" b/g scenes include every position that will be used during the shoot.

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Chico

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If you were that pissed off, why wasn't the offending scene edited out before production?

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Every scene is so dependent on the male performers that some could get away with it and others cannot. The best male performers out there have a pulse on what the girls enjoy or disagree with yet can perform at the level the director wishes. I can be a cut-less shooter with no limited editing if I want to but some fucked up surprise in the middle of a scene that makes the girl almost want to quit can cost me money and pisses me off almost as much as the girl.

Yes, there are some girls out there that are not all there but that doesn't mean I have to get a bad reputation because a male performer did some fucked up thing. I simply will not tolerate it. I let the male talent after the incident know how pissed off I was and don't test me while he was blabbering on about how it was an accident. Bullshit, proof was in the camcorder. I still kept it in the scene because I'm a firm believer in reality porn and it also explains why the scene kind of fizzled afterwards. This also explains why my BTS generally shows the real people and not some fantasy illusion. I love to break that barrier.

Chico

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I for one appreciate the candor in your reply. It is as I've suspected....there is no such thing as a "fully scripted" scene between the performers. You let them be professional and control their individual movements/actions/reactions but at the same time expect them to be professional with one another.

Sometimes, as it appears in the case with French, they aren't professional.

Thanks for giving us a straight answer.

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Any person that is a nuisance to my scenes simply will not work for me again, whether it be male or female performer. I believe most directors think the same way. I've had scenes where it looked like the girl was cracked out and I had to cancel it which cost me money. I've had scenes where it looked like the guy was partying with no sleep and couldn't achieve wood which cost me money. Professionalism and creativity amongst performers is key. I will never do anything that would throw money in the trash. Which explains why the performers who last the longest in this business are professional in their behavior and know that the scene comes first above all else if they want longetivity.

Chico

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Lately, I've been going vanilla which may surprise alot of you. It's nice to have chemistry in a one on one level which different shooting tactics to make things work out. Although I don't want my name out there anymore until my own stuff comes out, you will recognize my voice.

Again, I've suddenly shyed away from the choking, rough stuff and super hardcore stuff I've been known for in the past. One of the last scenes I shot was with Manuel Ferrara and Mia Rose and the scene was amazing because Manuel made the girl cum all over the place yet it had an edge. Performers like him are an absolute joy to work with because they have the pulse of the girl, scanning their emotions to get what they want. In fact, in a scene such as this example, I am no longer a director, just a camera man because I don't have to think. The performers do all the thinking for me and keep it varied and interesting yet sexy and hot. But there is only one Manuel, one Steve Holmes, one James Deen, one Michael Stefano. They're ability to improvise and add something above and beyond the scene to make the girl feel comfortable yet get an amazing scene is all part of the joy of shooting. Especially when I don't have to think, just point.

I remember when I was shooting little Kat about a year ago and asked her what kind of scene she wanted. She asked specifically for a rough scene. She personally requested it. Now I love the girl but she's like 90 pounds paired up with James Deen and Steve Holmes. Numerous times, I'd lock in close to the penetration and asked her if she was doing fine. She gave me the thumbs up. There is a reason when, if things get too intense or I get a negative vibe, I tell the females especially to use my code word which is, look at the camera and yell "STOP".

I'm actually glad I'm shooting more Vanilla sex now and making the setups more reality. But I will always shoot for what the producer wants and, for myself, will always shoot what I want which can be either a fun, joking, shoot with girls having happy-go-lucky sex or go balls out and make it intense.

It is all up to the producer; however, if you're the boss of the whole realm, the possibilities are up to you. Jeez, we all shoot the same porn, alot of directors I admire especially the Evil Angel boys because you can tell they greatly care about every intricacies of the scene. But I'm really an Internet shooter so we'll see how that goes.

One bad apple should not be blamed on me but I was the director and take full responsibility though I was stunned that we had to take a 10 minute break after the spitting incident as I took the male talent to the side and excorciated him for his stupid behavior. It's a waste of time and potentially a money losing venture if the girl doesn't recover and the scene kind of dies. That I will not tolerate. Trinity was a real trooper and recovered quick. Thank God. After all, I try to make each scene count but what was my choices? Cancel the scene because some bullshit happens and no one gets paid except the kill fees from Steven French to the talent. It's all about money and making scenes to the best of my ability.

Chico

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"Music the true universal language "

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