Personally, I'd rather see the "no-condomed-porn-for-me and no exceptions" guys be driven away instead. But that's just me. Porn can be so much better than it is. ::sigh::

Edited by - MLyons on 4/20/2004 7:12:01 PM

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BTW, I don't like anything heavier than light anal(I am starting to develop a liking of standard DP's, though, which bolsters Mutt's addiction point, because I used to hate them). Gapes are gross. In fact, I saw Felix Vicious puke in Service Animals 9 last night, and I turned it off.

But, that doesn't matter. What matters to me is that I would rather see ALL porn become disgusting to the point of me not wanting to watch it, than have the gov come in and regulate anything.

Of course, that won't happen(only disgusting porn, not gov reg). There will always be a market for the kind of porn anyone can like. so, there will always be a variety.

I realize I am in between two arguments in a sense, but they are related, of course.

I would rather see the whole thing collapse into freakdom before the gov tells anyone what they can't do in a consensual sex situation.

But that's just me. I'm a fanatical libertarian from my heart.

Oh wait, I do like feet, alot! Is that wrong?

J.

Edited by - valjean4876 on 4/20/2004 7:34:24 PM

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btw cumwhipper if you know nothing about europe then please don't make any statements
wether 'there is NO screening to speak of', especially in metropoles like budapest.

-

i agree with much of dac's comments, though i have to say while
porn can be artsy it certainly doesnt have to.
besides i said more than once what i think about certain acts,
and i swallowed more than once the words about certain producers.

but not all hope is lost - there is good porn out there, we just have
to push it and drop the scum, but that's up to this community, if you don't
want to raise your voice to defend your visions of porn you will drown in shit,
easy than that.
I love good porn to the point i'm proud of it but i don't want to be overshadowed
by degenerate scum that's a shame for all passionate porn producers.

Well back on topic, of coz you can still do GOOD porn with condoms.
And you can even have oral sex w/condoms. But these laws won't change a thing
even if the government in every us state would enforce such things,
the porn industry would just settle down somewhere else.
If the government would be serious 'bout that they would not only have to forbid
the production but although the sale of condom-free porn.
hey somehow this idea appeals me, creative people would have their field day

Edited by - x-ray on 4/20/2004 8:50:57 PM

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But it just seems strange to watch a porn where the guy is fucking the girl while wearing a condom only to pull it off and ejaculate in her mouth. It's like a cop wearing a bullet-proof vest around all day, and then takes it off when there's an armed stand-off.

I hate to say this, but I think the adult industry has done a pretty good job of policing itself so far. This is the first HIV outbreak in, what, five years? Considering the multiple partners and high-risk activity involved, they seem to have a decent track-record.

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And the implication was cute, but wrong. I've indicated that I don't go for extreme circus acts. And my hand does get plenty of action, but so does my girlfriend.

Well, maybe bukkake, lol.

J.

Edited by - valjean4876 on 4/20/2004 9:44:33 PM

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Then again, what do I know?

Quaze

Edited by - Mike Quasar on 4/20/2004 10:37:20 PM

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Edited by - M.B. on 4/20/2004 9:55:46 PM

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i emphasized 'the gov tells anyone what they can't do'
coz that's exactly how generalizations start off.
so no need to juggle the words.

btw there was no vicious implication adressed directly to you,
the text in brackets was meant to be funny, notice the i use them plenty

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If you work in a metal shop, you wear eye shields, the blades have guards...you have protective equipment.

If you're being exposed to potentially HIValichous semen explosions on a daily basis, you wrap it up first.

Do I like condoms in porn? Not particularly. Is my desire for condom free porn worth the life of an actress? No.

All the 'if they don't make condom free porn I'll never buy it again' people are starting to sould like petulent children. If they were passing out free Ferarris they'd return it because they didn't like the radio.

Myk

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"Last year, the county health department issued a report concluding that the porn industry posed a health risk to its workers and the general population . Health officials at that time recommended that the Board of Supervisors ask state officials to develop regulations that would require adult-film actors to use condoms and be tested for a variety of communicable diseases, including HIV and hepatitis.
Since that time, county and state officials have been working with adult-film industry representatives, but news of last week's infections gave the effort to require a condom-only policy new momentum.
Rather than requiring condoms, the industry requires performers to undergo testing for HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases every month."

The Board of Health was well aware of the gonorrhea/chlamydia problem from last year, since all cases of gonorrhea have to be reported to the county. It was at the county's insistance that testing for these two infections was started for porn performers (It certainly wasn't porn producers who cared about it). If you go back and read the Aug. 2003 article in AVN.com about STD's in porn, Sharon Mitchell stated that the government officials were looking closely at the STD situation, and were considering even then more strict regulations.

I suspect the County was concerned about gonorrhea and chlamydia because if either a man or woman has these, he or she is more susceptible to becoming infected with the HIV virus if they have sex with an HIV positive person.

About my italics above for "the general population": The County is also well aware that the porn community is not a self-contained enclave, where people only have sex with other porn performers. Owing to a number of facts - that porn actresses travel the country and work as escorts while they are feature dancing, that both actors and actresses go to other countries and make porn movies, that porn actors visit prostitutes, and so one, thus mixing with the general population, the County has no choice but to be concerned about this situation, since it is their responsibility to keep a handle on all infectious diseases. I don't see what they are doing now to be any different than what they need to do if there was an outbreak of tuberculosis, or food poisoning or SARS. It is their mandate to investigate contagious infections and do what is necessary to ensure the health of their communities.

Jewel, you also mentioned that condoms are not effective at stopping transmission of the HIV virus, because the virus particles are so small, they can pass through the condom. This was true of the old natural condoms that you could buy about 20 years ago, since these were made from sheep membranes and contained pores. However, the latex rubber condoms do not have such pores, and so are far better at stopping the passage of the virus particles. If a latex condom breaks, of course, the virus can be transmitted, but it is still better to use one than not, in regards to protecting oneself against HIV.

Edited by - Renee on 4/20/2004 10:31:24 PM

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Just my opinion of course

Quaze

Edited by - Mike Quasar on 4/20/2004 10:57:55 PM

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Ejaculating into a person's mouth - moderate
Ejaculating into a person's eyes - high
Ejaculating into a vagina - medium/high
Ejaculating into an anus - high
Ejaculating onto unbroken skin - low
Performing DP, DPP, anal or DAP with condoms - low

Obviously they'll be more concerned about some acts than others. My guess is that they'll push for condoms plus some measure of training and education for the talent, both in terms of knowing the risks, and knowing their rights.

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period

you know it, whether you choose to believe it or not

performers educated about the potential dangers of this specific job are adult enough to make the hard choice about condoms or no... this is not a new thread, or concern... DAC, it seemed disingenuous of you to keep repeating 'scumbag this and that' because the clear data is that very few men and women perform in this industry... and every single one of them by choice... its like what has been said about Savannah 10-15 years ago... she was messed up and woulda been no matter where she ended up...

and for every messed up performer 'reduced' to porn, there are successful, pleasant, happy, talented, purpose-filled career people diggin' what they do...

As a retailer, I'm always saying in defense "hey, accuse me of bad taste all you want" so maybe I'm too sensitive and didn't realize...

you meant "scumbag" AS A COMPLIMENT

Jewel's assertive attitude of standing by the code and structure already in place was the most honest post I've read... condoms-only is not the point... the point is to defend by any means necessary the lifestyle and ethical choices we make every day to work in this field

performers are most effected NOT BY "vague, swirling in the air viruses that potentially will kill them and others" BUT BY the disregard of other performers engaging in unsafe sex acts outside the industry and not maintaining a rigorous test regimen that mitigates the potential for the spread of viral disease.

This may be an unpopular sentiment in the midst of the tragic circumstances that have come to pass, but I stand by AIM and the ability of the industry to regulate itself. Anything less is industry suicide.

I count some of these performers among my personal friends, and when people mess with my personal friends, they mess with me... which ain't cool

I see CA OSHA or any other bullshit regulatory involvement as a mere smokescreen intended to eventually perform a double anal... in the industry's ass

so to speak...

sold as a personal use item for enhancement of the sexual experience

Edited by - calandra on 4/20/2004 11:19:17 PM

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Max Booty
"She smells like angels ought to smell."
Frank Miller, Sin City

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Quaze

Edited by - Mike Quasar on 4/21/2004 1:33:07 AM

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Max Booty
"She smells like angels ought to smell."
Frank Miller, Sin City

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"What's a rimjob?..It's when you put your legs behind your head and someone licks your ass!" - South Park,Bigger,Longer,& Uncut

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I for one have very little time for American Features. Some of the girls are gorgeous, but then there's the condoms and all of that, which I prefer not to see. So when I buy American porn, it's almost all "gonzo". At the same time, I avoid most of RLD's stuff because I'm not intersted in seeing below-par looking women doing the nastiest things possible.

Something like a John Leslie or Jules Jordan (NOT WoAD) kind of thing, regular sex, some anal, facials, DP. All is good.

Then there's car-crash-like curiosity at seeing DPP and DAP which may or may not float my boat at the time depending on the performers, since I haven't seen a lot of it. I won't NOT buy something because of this, and even bought DVSX' DVDA out of curiosity (though I haven't watched it yet).

No interest in A2M, A2OGM, creampies of any kind, I might be able to overlook one of these in an otherwise good scene/dvd but I won't buy anything themed with them.

Choking, women being slapped with herring, vomiting. And Ron Jeremy or Max Hardcore. No interest and these pretty much = an automatic no buy for me.

Just that you'll find many of the loudest posters here share the love of ultra-hard-hardcore, much like in any other forum on the net you'll find a lot of the ultra-hardcore fans of any topic to be the loudest posters on their boards (see: Wrestling boards, MMORPG boards, RPG boards, etc etc).

The most hardcore fans speak for themselves, but being the most vocal on the net doesn't always equal the biggest proportion of consumers...

cheers,

scipio

edit - clarity

Edited by - scipio on 4/21/2004 6:17:17 AM

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And what about the female condom? Do they still excist? nobody would see it, and there is still a condom right?

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All you so-called film makers have done is try to keep up with the Joneses, but you've done it at the expense of the talent and the customer.

If I like a certain girl I don't want to see someone shoot cum in her eye on purpose, see two dicks up her ass or see her do something which obviously isn't pleasurable to her, and to anyone with half a brain is downright dangerous.

You've all got away from the point of making porn films. That is: to make creative, erotic and arousing movies!

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Edited by - M.B. on 4/21/2004 12:11:24 PM

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I don't like the concept of people who have no idea what porn is setting standards for what it should be. If the transmission of bodily fluids is a problem, say goodbye to blowjobs, cunnilingus, cumshots, open mouthed kissing, dildo use between two partners, etc. The government of the state of California can work on better ways of protecting the public health than this. I wish the industry will continue to be allowed to police itself; I think they are doing a stellar job. Compared to other 'high-risk' occupations, porn is safer. This is quite obviously just a backdoor attempt to fuck the industry; and by some news groups reactions, this is consciously being blown way out of proportion and distorting the truth of the matter.

The most awful flipside of this story is that more porn companies' will go overseas rather than film in California to make hardcore porn. And as the industry has standards set in the USA but obviously can't enforce such strict testing in say, Brazil, this will only create more HIV outbreaks.

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Take care.

J.

Edited by - valjean4876 on 4/21/2004 1:20:04 PM

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Edited by - valjean4876 on 4/21/2004 1:12:03 PM

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You cant see them as a customer, and as a performer you are still safe, and for the anal, well i guess that is then with a normal condom, but at least the vaginal sex will still look the same?

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-

i don't think it's the right time now to point fingers at people
having troubles to pay their flat rent. it's better to support each other
as most people sit in the same boat.

back on topic , i don't think that porn and condoms exclude each other.
it is a fair option.

For most similar aged and like-minded people i talked to AIDS is still
the No.1 reason NOT to become a porn-talent or even think about it.
i guess it's basically the same in the states, maybe as soon as condoms
become mandatory the pool of talents will get even bigger, who knows?

right now i don't see that this law discussed here will have any impact
on porn valley at all!

And even if every state would follow May, i highly doubt it would have
ANY effect on the situation in Europe.

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I think what all of this boils down to is the lack of responsibility, self-respect and self-discipline of 'some' of the parties involved in the adult industry. Being involved in this industry for the past 4 years, I can actually say that with confidence. No matter what happens or what deliberations take place, whether you decide to shoot in Los Angeles or in Egypt; talents, entreprenuers and crew members must all look out for each other. This is a business. What you do on your off time will effect what you do when you are on your on time. Be responsible!

To get back to what Jewel is saying, I firmly believe that the knowledge learned in this business can easily be applied to the world outside of Adult. Being categorized as a crew member, I know, for a fact, that the knowledge that I've learned in my 4 years time can be applied to outfits in the mainstream media. In other words, if you're low on cash because of being irresponsible, look for other work my friend. There's no excuse not to.

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and these principles of personal freedom won't change that quick!
please don't oversimplify

that being said, right now -to repeat myself- i don't see any impact
on the american porn valley not to speak of europe.

Maybe Private will switch to 'Condom only' at one time but even than
there are still countless other europe based production companies that won't.

right now i don't want to value if this is a sad or a good thing.

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of course it will have effect in Europe! Our governements are big ass kissers to the US, so they will get envolved, as they are talking about it already on the news, and the actors and actresses and companies will change to in the end. Its not like HIV can only happen to Americans.
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Kinda like France, Germany, and now Spain, maybe Poland in the effort to pacify Iraq. My ass is sore from so much ass kissing from these countries.

-"What's the difference between toilet paper, and the French flag? A: Nothing. They're both all-white, and they share the same purpose." Glenn Wright

Edited by - Eric Lowery on 4/21/2004 3:04:27 PM

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----------------

Here's my problem with the performers being able to choose for themselves. We all know how that goes. Girl goes to gonzo company and says "I want to work with a condom." Gonzo company says, "we don't shoot with condoms". Girl is left with the choice of either going to another company, or shooting without a condom anyway. In a perfect world, she'd be able to get enough work and shoot condom porn with other company's, but in the real world where everyone "knows" that condoms don't sell units, she's under HEAVY pressure to shoot without a condom. Eventually, she'll relent, as will so many other performers and of course there won't be any condomed porn in gonzo because the girls have given into the financial pressure put on them to shoot without them.

The thing is, short of not performing at all, they suddenly DON'T have a choice anymore. I don't discount the argument that it's still "their choice" but that doesn't mean I have to feel good about the circumstances under which they have to make that "choice". Sometimes the pure capitalist, libertarian ideal just doesn't fuckin' work. If all gonzo companies WOULD go "condom-optional" and TRULY be that way, I'd feel alot better about the whole thing, even if the girls were offered more money for condom-less scenes I'd at least feel like they still have a freakin' choice!

As an aside, I'm tired of the generalizations. I DON'T have a "hard on" for condom porn. But I won't throw porn away if that's what it comes to. I also don't feel that I should have to put up with what passes for feature porn these days just because gonzo companies refuse to at least CONSIDER the possibility of "condom-optional" policies.

I really think I need to stop participating in these threads. Not only do I feel that people like hardware, myk and I are being misinterpretted most of the time because people aren't really listening, but I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall. There are good arguments being made on both sides of the issue, I believe. And I respect everyone's opinion here. I'm just tired of being lumped into some camp as if I've made up my mind and fuck the rest of you. I have a feeling alot of us are. I have no idea how this is going to shake out, my main point is that I'm not quite so against exploring all the possibilities as some others seem to be.

Enough of my rambling. I don't really know shit anyway. I'm just a consumer. The only influence I really have is with my wallat, but sometimes just SOMEtimes I think money shouldn't rule over EVERYthing.

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