Ummm, yes they do. Can I refer you to the August Ames tragedy.
In the interests of equality, in a series of the 'The Bachelor' one of the women confessed to the bachelor that she'd previously had relations with women. brooke-the-bachelor-2018 (And in a full circle, this woman is now going to be a 'Bachelorette', as openly bisexual, with both male and female contestants.)
This is probably bordering on off topic, but I can't help but respond to this. A person's "apparent gender" is often the same as their "true gender." Someone presents as a woman and identifies as a woman, and so their "apparent" and "true" gender are "woman." I suspect what you are saying here is that their gender does not line up with their assigned sex, in your opinion. That's not the fault of the trans/non-binary person.
Also, as missporn points out, sexual orientation is entirely different and this analogy doesn't work. If the lesbian doesn't let you know, how is that different from a straight chick not letting you know she isn't into you? That's an issue with the other person's desire for you or lack of it. A trans person might be into you, so what exactly are they meant to be disclosing? As far as they're concerned, you are hitting on them. Am I supposed to disclose that I have a vagina?
As I read all of this discussion, I feel like there is a point being overlooked. Aubrey is a big star and it's pretty impossible to miss the fact that she has penis. She shows it off enough. Wouldn't she and others just assume Holmes knew? And if he didn't, imo that makes Holmes at least partially responsible for not being knowledgeable about the industry/not doing a bit of research. And the bottom line, as many have noted here, is that his reaction is the real problem and the big red flag as far as his character goes. There is no excuse for that at all.
But there's more to this than Steve Holmes refusal to work with Aubrey Kate. In an industry where consent is non-negotiable, Holmes is welcome to refuse to work with anyone of a specific demographic or individual. That may be an uncomfortable reality for some people but it sets a nasty precedent if consent/right to refusal is ignored. However, it didn't end there, did it? Holmes could have taken Kate's criticism on the chin and point out as matter of fact that he is free refuse to perform with anyone he's not comfortable with or has a distaste for. Kate could not rationally argue against that without ignoring consent. Holmes squandered that opportunity by wilfully misgendering Kate, clearing any doubt of transphobia. To me, Holmes' response is infinitely more unpleasant than his refusal.
A bank refusing to loan a customer money is one thing but refusing to make a loan and calling the customer an indigent bum pretending to be worth more than they are is another.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 27 2021 : 9:42AM
You don't seem to understand that while gender may be the only thing that matters to you, race may matter to others. For example, it's certainly mattered on porn sets in the past, to the point that female talents have actually denied that certain black male talents they've shot with are black.
EDIT: You're mistaking gender for sex. As GGG pointed out LCF was likely doing so too, but I'm just too lazy to unpack that distinction.
Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/27/2021 10:33:03 AM
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interlinked Deactivated User
2 Posts 5/21
Posted - May 27 2021 : 5:38PM
I got banned from the forum by Captain Jack for mildly disagreeing with him on this thread. No warning or explanation.
^ Nope, you got banned by me because you've been previously banned three or four times minimum already. Being banned once doesn't mean come back with a different name, and we don't give warnings for those previously banned. I'd say you owe Captain Jack an apology for blaming him for something he had nothing to do with, but you won't be here long enough to do so.
Wow! I never even thought this was a controversial comment. It's grounded in the fact that some female performers don't wish to work with male performers who have sex with other men. And this should be respected, without having to justify why.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2021 : 10:26AM
^^Some female performers don't want to work with men who are black. Do black men who have a racially ambiguous appearance have an ethical responsibility to inform every woman they shoot with that they are black?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2021 : 7:05PM
^Perhaps you think they could handle it, but as I told hawki, some performers have responded with denials and even anger when told by viewers that a man they shot with is actually black.
As for the blood donation rules, porn performers shows each other their tests before shooting. Either those tests are up to date or not. That's the responsibility, to get tested as often the system dictates and have your test ready to show your shooting partner(s).
Sure, the female performers can have that position, and it should be respected, but that's very different from male performers having a responsibility to ensure female performers are aware of this. They shouldn't lie when asked, but they don't need to volunteer the information.
I have a responsibility to tell police officers where I was last Tuesday evening if they ask me*, but that doesn't mean I tell every police officer I see where I was last Tuesday.
* except no, never talk to cops. But that's not the point.
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hawki Deactivated User
141 Posts 12/16
Posted - May 29 2021 : 3:27AM
IMO if you don't wanna work with someone because of their race then you are racist and I dont have to disclose anything to racists. Its their problem,not mine. Though I feel in porn woman who dont work with black guys is not really racism. It is just business, they are just trying to make more money for their first. Not right. Shouldnt be acceptable. but it is what it is.
And I dont understand why are you so stuck on race though. It has nothing to do with topic in discussion. If you want to be in a romantic/sexual relationship with someone then their gender and stuff between their legs is the most important thing and you should be made aware of that before you proceed any further.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 29 2021 : 10:53AM
^Again, for YOU "gender" (you mean sex) is the most important thing, but there are a variety of things that someone may want to know before having sex with someone, on or off screen. Sometimes, one of those things is race. Furthermore, your want to know something doesn't necessarily create an obligation to disclose for the person you intend to shoot/sleep with.
The reason these guys feel like there needs to be responsibility for men to reveal their sexual history is routed in 1980s homophobia based around the hiv/aids scare. It's not based on anything but passed disproved stigma and discrimination.
Let's remember this is porn and not an adult relationship or partnership....it's a business. I'm not going to go into the problematic nature of disease testing in porn and its effectiveness at prevention, another discussion...BUT if anything, as porn is a business, it should be on production companies and industry to protect and insure performers safety...Putting responsibility on that on individual is ridiculous, because they are hired by production companies.
Today's porn regularly has two dicks in one girls ass, and sharing of almost all bodily fluids in all orifices....if you think gay sex is anymore dangerous behaviour i don't know what ti tell you, for real.
Did I think or say what? And the point here is that *in some peoples' opinion* it is an ethical responsibility. In others, it is not. And in others still, to view it as a responsibility is homophobic. You are presenting an opinion as an established fact.
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Penguin Deactivated User
2 Posts 3/14
Posted - Jun 2 2021 : 1:35PM
MOD: Your application for deactivation was accepted.
[MOD: edited. people insisting on using derogatory terms to describe transgendered individuals in this thread is old]
Blindsiding talent is wrong.
The fact that they tried this shit on a seasoned pro no less, is very disturbing.
If you're a fan of porn you should be bothered by the fact that this took place.
I have a feeling some of yall would have no problem watching people being forced to perform against their will. I'd use the explicit word reserved for this but I don't want to trigger any censors or filters.
Steve was obviously being an asshole by calling Aubrey a "dude". I also think that trans performers should declare that they are trans, ofcourse.
I find trans performers like Aubrey Kate and Chanel Santini very attractive but I wouldn't engage in sex with them because they have cocks and that's a bridge to far FOR ME. That's not to say I speak for every cis male, I'm just saying I understand where he's coming from. He was very wrong for the language he used though. He could have just said he's not comfortable with having sex with a transsexual performer, he instead chose to really hurt her feelings instead, that's not cool.
Fact? Can you demonstrate it to be the case that the producers deliberately conspired to mislead Holmes into this situation? If not, that's your opinion. Portraying this "fact" can be treated as defamation if you can't show it to be true.
I agree that consent is sovereign and non-negotiable. That sovereign status of consent gives you the inalienable right to refuse to work with anyone, not the right to go out of your way to belittle those you choose not to work with. I don't think what Holmes said to Kate was becoming of a "seasoned pro".
^While I agree with what you're saying, you're acting like Steve messaged Aubree out of the blue and started shitting on her. He tried to go in and explain himself, and I would assume apologize. The producers wouldn't let him. Then Auibree sought out Steve and started giving him a hard time.
^ That's your interpretation but if you paid attention to this thread in general, you'd have seen I acknowledged openly that Kate gave Holmes a hard time, thus showing your interpretation of what I'm "acting like" to be misunderstood.
Perhaps you should read my previous posts in this thread?
Steve Holmes did not know Aubrey kate is trans Evil angel booked him for a scene with another female performer and Aubrey Kate and described the scene to him as boy Girl/girl which is wrong they should have told him that Aubrey kate is trans
^I agree. Now that some time has passed I still see it the same way. i.e. all 3 parties involved were in the wrong, some more than others. And I bet this kind of blunder from producers isn't gonna happen again any time soon. It could have been avoided very easily.
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bridge6296 Deactivated User
1041 Posts 8/13
Posted - Jun 14 2021 : 6:26PM
You caught me. Nothing gets me hotter then watching forced sexual interactions. It don't matter what kind we're talking about, as long as it's a traumatic sexual experience, I'm down. What are you doing this weekend? Down for some non-consensual sodomy?
Your above statement is that he went out of his way. What Steve did, while wrong, was reactionary to Aubrey giving him a hard time. That is by definition not going out of his way.
^ Let's quote what you said, word for word.That was what I responded to first. You made no initial statement claiming I said Holmes went out of his way. You struggle to make a point when you change the goalposts to fit your narrative.
Are you seriously saying being "reactionary" involves intentionally saying something to offend them and belittle their identity? If performer XY was black and performer XX was white and the latter refused to work with the former on set, to which performer XY criticized XX and XX responded with a racial slur or racist statement to XY, could that be downgraded to being "reactionary", "while wrong"?
We've managed to disagree without belittling each other. Flash and 2bollocks disagreed without doing so either. What gives Holmes a free pass for his conduct to be mitigated as being "reactionary"?
I don't disagree with you in general my point was whatever your true sex is interacting with other people at some point may reach sexual level and thet is the point both should make sure they're aligned including consensus , I was a political acttivist for a time between 15 and 25 years old , I supported lesbians and gay demanding for right some of them hit on me , I just said I wasn't available and almost always it was enough, a couple of them was insistent , but nothing unmamageable , point is I wasn't telling to everybody what my true sex was , it was unimportant I only said it when it mattered
Also she might be a superstar but I much like Holmes didn't have any idea who she was until now , more I couldn't name 3 transgender porn star to save my life , so being well known in her work environment doesn't mean those out of it know either, furthermore it's double edged Holmes is a worldwide well known hetero only performer ,if he should have known about Aubrey she should have knownabout Steve either
also In real life a woman might not let me know she's not interested with my and that's fine, but we're talking business everything should be on the table when dealing.
That's not even what I said. I didn't say he deserves a pass. But people are acting like he hunted her down and started berating her. That's simply not true. She sought him out to give him a hard time. The point that I'm making is that there is a lot of blame to go around in this situation. Steve is wrong for attacking her gender identity. The producers and director are wrong for not making a genuine good faith effort to make sure that a straight performer knew they were signing up for a TS scene. Lastly Aubrey is wrong for not being more professional about the situation
A "free pass" was a figure of speech on my part referring to your literal use of the word "reactionary" (yes you did use that word) as if being so mitigates what he said. You have a funny way of making a "point" by accusing me of "making it" seem like Holmes chased Kate down when my previous comment in this thread acknowledged that Holmes responded to Kate's criticism and refuted your claim.
Do I think communication from the production team could have been better and do I think the performers could have done their research? Sure. Do I think the exchange between Holmes and Kate is equally unpleasant? No. We have the power of hindsight but Holmes could have come out of this far better if he simply said his right to refuse is something Kate has to deal with and that he doesn't have to justify himself but he decided to throw away his chance of holding his head high walking out away from this.
This is the conversation that took place after he left the set.
She didn't even swear at him. Not one single curse word, and he called her the transgendered equivalent of the n- word. All I can assume is that to satisfy those who felt that all 3 parties were wrong or that Aubrey is in any way wrong she should have just stayed shut the fuck up. This is just so sad.
How could one read that interaction and conclude he is the one in the wrong?
After he was misled, she picked a public fight with him. She was a stranger who had contributed to HIS time being wasted. And she was a participant in him being misled.
What consideration does he owe a stranger with that level of disillusioned entitlement?
+ she challenged his manhood in public. It would be super if he turned the other cheek and laughed it off. But why is that expected of him?
All I can say is wow, just wow. Clearly, there is no point in further discussion with people who laugh at transphobia and find him in the right because she "wasted" his time.
^Nothing. I've seen people call ts's "freaks" or even "faggots". That would be far worse than "dude". IMO It's not the equivelant of the n-word at all and I'm glad more agree with me. As far as Aubrey having any blame, she made the mistake of not disclosing being ts and apparently just assuming anybody she talks to should simply already know. And then the personal attacks on Steve without starting a civilized conversation first. They're all in the wrong.
^ Misgendering has the same effect on trans people as the n-word has on black people. So they are on the same level of severity. It is a shame that in 2021, this still has to be explained to people.
When a performer chooses to not work with you, your reaction should not be to start a confrontation with them on twitter. We argue every day about performers' rights to bodily autonomy, who they get to work with, and what types of scenes they will do. Well those rights apply to men too.
^ She wasn't challenging him on not wanting to work with her. She was challenging him on wasting her time by not realising she was trans until he walked on set, which is a legitimate complaint for her to have. Googling Aubrey takes just a few seconds and it is quite clear that she has a penis. If he had done this, another male talent could have been found. The only comment she made that I disagree with was 'not being man enough', but that does not justify in any way his response.
I don't believe it's really Steve's responsibility to google if a performer is trans or not. That's the producer's and director's responsibility to inform someone who is normally a straight performer that they are being booked for a TS scene. And even if it was Steve's responsibility to do research, it's still not a professional reaction on her part to start a public confrontation over it. Point blank, you don't pick fights with people who don't want to have sex with you.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 16 2021 : 2:46PM
^Aubrey wasted her time by showing up on set and, I assume, doing some prep work for a scene that was planned well in advance. It is perfectly reasonable that she was upset about that and that she expressed those feelings.
If you had read my post properly, you would have seen me say that she DIDN'T pick a fight with him because he didn't want to have sex with her, but for the waste of her time as misspornUSA rightly says. And, I'm sorry, it's 2021 and almost every human in the western world have access to all the information the internet contains available to them 24 hours a day on multiple devices. So it may not have been his responsibility, but it was lazy of him to not do so. The director and producer have some blame too, but the person in this with the least blame is Aubrey, yet she seems to be getting as much stick for this as Steve.
Steve Holmes @ AEBN
Posted - May 27 2021 : 5:06AM
