Not really sure if this fits the framework of a porn pool discussion.
Since I started directing about 8 months ago, I've always shot with a Sony VX2000. It's a really workhorse camera to shoot with. Everything I shoot is on auto except for the manual focus.
I went to a Zupko shoot a couple of months ago and was seriously impressed with their cameras, the Panasonic 24P. The richness in color and the motion rate really hit my eyeball especially in the edit bay.
I spoke to some of my buddies at UCLA who tell me they switched from a 1/2" 3CCD JVC to the Panasonic 24P.
Then an HBO crew I found was shooting with it.
I'm not sure but I dropped the dime and bought it. It should be coming in this week from BHPhoto.
I bought it if for no other reason than I really like the look of the movie. I'm still keeping the VX2000. There's simply not a better camcorder for Internet work but really, for the Net, there's not much difference from it than the TRV900.
I know Elegant Angel uses the Panasonic. Curious if any of you directors use it as well and what your insight is.
I was looking hard at getting a few of the DVX100s late in 2002 as a step up from the PD100/150 handicam (in most ways the VX2000 is just a MiniDV version of the PD150).
The image quality of the DVX100 is certain superior to the PD150/VX2000, and the onboard 24p --> 3:2 pulldown is definitely eye-catching -- it's the same framerate/motion effect that you get when you shoot film. The audience may not know why they're interpetting what they see differently, but it definitly has an effect on them.
Ultimately we rejected the camera for the following reasons:
1) The preview versions of the carmera had gear-driven zoom and focus mechanisms. The camera Panasonic finally delivered to market had zero-feedback servos. Not really a problem shooting gonzo and other run-and-gun styles, but no better in that respect than a VX2000
2) Althought the resolution and saturation are great, the lattitude was disappointing. Not a problem in controlled lighting situations, but troublesome in high-contrast situations.
3) No native 16:9 and no qualilty anamorphic glass. We were looking for a low-cost video camera we could intercut with S16. Everything we're shooting S16 is being framed 16:9 safe. The only way to do that with the DVX100 is to crop then blow up; then crop again for 4:3 presentation. The chip set on the DVX100 just doesn't have the resolution for that.
4) The DVX200 is a full-sized, full featured camera with a superior chip-set and superior image controls for only a few hundred dollars more. Probably too big for gonzo, but works well for our purposes.
All that said, I think the DVX100 would make a great camera for gonzo. I've seen a bunch of fake reality TV using the camera, and the gama and frame rate definately helps set the productions apart and pushes them into a look that is neither video (as we're accustomed to seeing it) or film. I would definitely consider using the DVX100 for my docu-porn work.
It's a great camera but similar results can be had with the canon Xl1S in 30p. Prepare to take a bashing from the raincoat crowd however, many of them hate the film-like look of either camera.
Quaze
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DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Feb 29 2004 : 5:30PM
More of a technical thing Chico.
I'm moving this to Tech Talk.
(However I will be reading what others add to the thread.)
The DVX100 is a major step up in image quality from the VX2000 et. al, and I think you'll be really happy with it, as long as you can endure the slings and arrows of the "all porn should be 30i" crowd. I personally find the 24p --> 3:2 less stobey than 30i, so maybe they'll cut you a little more slack than they do Quasar's 30p.
But I think the reason it's been showing up on HBO shoots, etc has more to do with the amount of money that Panasonic has put behind the camera than the way the camera actually looks; there are much better 24p video cameras that are well within the budget for an HBO shoot.
Panasonic is selling the DVX100 like it's the magic bullet that's going to move the filmmaker wannabes to the ranks of a David Fincher, ("If only you had 24p people would take your shit feature project seriously!") and at $3200 there are a lot of buyers who are willing to believe the hype. Then some producer who doesn't know one camera from another starts hearing about how great the DVX100 is and insists that's the camera they must have, when they could easily afford a much better camera.
The sdx900 is a 25k cam and has an approx 600 a day rental rate, so I'm sure the pornsters won't be going with THAT lol..
The DVX100a is currently the best; however, you must SHOOT LIKE A FILM CAMERA to get the best results. Quick movements can create jittery effect while in 24p.
New cams will be announced at NAB 2004 that will be amazing.
Chico! You once let me in the AVN's for free, thanks bro. I still appreciate it.
I'm not in LA and can't quote you a rate for the SDX900 off the top off my head. I can tell you that here in NYC you can get the Panasonic Varicam (HD big bro to the SDX900) for about $600/day with a 3 day week. That works out to about $350/day if you shoot all week. Prices at rentals houses are *always* negotiable. No one pays list.
In any event, the DVX100 a step up from the VX2000 for sure. And if you don't like the 24p --> 3:2, it will also shoot 30p and 30i. No matter what frame-rate/interlace you choose, there are still plenty of ways to fuck up a shoot -- most of them having nothing to do with the camera.
Frankly bro, I don't remember it but I'm sure I was drunk cause I lost 5 years of my life during the AVN Convention.
Dude, I should be getting the DVX100A by mail early this week. I'm basically getting it out of the recommendation of my buds from UCLA. I'll be back to shooting Behind The Scenes with the camera for the rest of the Anabolic/Diabolic crew. We'll see how it performs under pressure.
All news and other ENG-style footage is shot 30i, and that motion signature is what people have come to associate with reality. (That's why the hardcore raincoaters give Quasar such a hassle about shooting 30p) Shooting BTS footage at 24p --> 3:2 is going to give them a very different motion signature from the 30i that most people are accustomed to seeing from "reality", and I wouldn't be surprised if some people question the veracity of what your shooting.
Not to get into a pissing contest, but 60i is Panasonic marketing hype. NTSC is 29.97 fps (commonly refered to as 30fps) with 2 interlaced fields. As each of these fields displays only half the scans lines, calling them frames is a stretch at best.
So what would I, the virgin videographer with mild aspirations to shooting some strokable cine du gonzo be best off using? My guess is the Sony standard, because it does well with low light and motion, and because I've seen a lot of pretty good footage of regular city streets scenery.
Roger Zigster's recomendation of the PD150. Not the state of the art, but comes with a host of professional-like features including balanced stereo XLR audio inputs that will let you hook up real audio gear to it.
If you shoot away from the PD150's weaknesses, you'll get an image that can be intercut with BetaSP, and even an educated eye won't notice (unless you tell them to look for it.)
$2700 is WAY too much for a used PD150. When the camera was SOTA, it retailed for about $3500. The design is now several years old, and you can get a Panasonic DVX100 (the camera the de-throned the PD150) for only a few hundred dollars more.
Well, I did get myself the Panasonic PD100A. I have been testing it on Behind The Scenes. The only problem is that I just feel too chickenshit to use it in a regular scene for fear I'll fuck it up.
There's something about the picture I really like. The color saturation is just that much more vivid.
It's kind of a tough hill to climb. I know the Sony inside and out. But this camera simply intrigues me like no other.
I went to a Zupko set last night to test it out BTS. I couldn't really tell. But the footage was great. Oh what to do, what to do.
Chico, don't you have friends in the bizz that you can use for un-release test shoots? Do a few of them and really put the camera through it's paces. Aside from the motion rendering differences of 24p, there are going to be ergonomic differences just from the different size, shape and weight of the camera. Test, test, test!
Now get ready to can it because the hi def cams are coming to NAB in Vegas this month - one from Sony that looks like the pd170 and one from JVC that has 3 chips...
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Apr 7 2004 : 2:51PM
Correct - NTSC is 2 fields per frame to make a pseudo-60 fields. However, the 60i Hi-def is actually 60 frames which makes it super crisp (almost too crisp for my tastes.)
I'm familiar with HD systems like Panasonic's Varicam that will record 60 progressive frames per second, and yeilds 1/2 speed 30p playback, and I've worked with Sony's HDCAM, which does 24p, 25p, 30p, and "60i" (60 interlaced fields per second). But I'm unfamilar with any system that does 120 interlaced fields per second (true 60i), or normal speed 60p.
What hot new gear have you got over there, Tricia? Dulca? Viper?
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Apr 7 2004 : 5:01PM
Tony - you're right. I'm having a more-than-normal off-day here.
I wasn't even noticing that I was copying typing the 'i' after 60.
So even though I definitely said it wrong, I think we're in agreement. NTSC is 60 interlaced fields for 30 frames. And some of the less expensive HD cameras shoot 60 interlaced fields and some of the more expensive shoot 60 frames (without interlacing).
I've seen 35mm film projected at 60fps and it look AMAZING. I think IMAX is 60fps (in addition to being a HUGE negative)
The HD I've seen has only been 24p, 30p or 30i. Never seen 60p, either at normal speed, or the over-crank the Varicam delivers. HD looks good on an HD monitor, but in most cases I can barely tell the difference between HD and SD on an SD monitor. Until HD monitors and HD disc players are common place I think Chico is going to get a lot of use out of his new toy. The DVX100's 24p --> 3:2 effect and film-like gamma are going to be noticable, regardless of the spacial resolution or aspect ratio.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to find a 23.976/29.97 motor for my Super16s.
