How do I tell a legal download site from a pirate site? Trying to ask Google, I mostly find pirate bay & co... I would have thought "way too cheap" implies a pirate site. Hoever even Adult DVD Talk lists e.g. X Movies which seems to offer unlimited downloads for ca $30/month. Is the industry really happy with this - letting people download a gadzillion moves for $30 and then unsubscribing?
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screwcap Deactivated User
I'm walkin' here........ 1032 Posts 6/10
Posted - Sep 10 2010 : 6:18PM
Google Diamond Foxx. Look at the returns. Most are not from reality kings, Score Group, Bang, Naughty Amer., Brazzers et al. If it's not from a production company it's pirate. If SC is wrong, speak up.
Free=pirates Pay=legit Usually, there are exceptions to this rule though. Some pirates do steal content and then sell clips of that content on various websites as well.
well if you mean those big archive sites like videobox and videosz, they are legal. somebody paid someone at some point the rights to distribute that content. videobox even has premium channels with Evil Angel and Vivid content, this is not an underhanded operation. yes these sites are a bargain, but that is not illegal. you can't fault porn consumers for liking a bargain!
Most ripped off content has the original producer's logo on the corner. A DVD rip won't. But when in doubt, just email. If you see SCORE DVD box covers at a site, email us at webdesk@scoregroup.com.
Check out Graboid.com for one of the exceptions. I can't for the life of me understand how that can be "legal" download of porn (and current-release Hollywood) movies for a pay site. They have to be asking for trouble.
Keeping an eye on the intersection of Pop Culture Blvd. & Porn Culture Ave. 151 Posts 7/11
Posted - Aug 4 2011 : 1:26PM
Many of the big tubesites* are owned by Montreal based Manwin (the world's biggest porn company). Manwin also owns some of the biggest porn production companies in the world like Brazzers and Twistys. If Manwin's tubsites have content from Manwin's production companies then it is legal because you can't steal from yourselves. It gets murkier on those Manwin tubesites for content from other producers because often it is illegally uploaded but sometimes there are side deals to pay something to the other producers. *I did not name Manwin's tubesites because I am uncertain if that falls within the Board rules but most of the top Google searches for tubesites are Manwin owned.
There is a legal and free use of tube sites it is when amateurs upload their own material for free , of course all the performers must be of legal age and must agree for the public upload in that case it is legal. The owners themselves are distributing it for free, though they are usually of bad quality , very short and with bad camera but although they're acted in many cases (exaggerated reactions due to the knowledge that there's is a camera) they're mostly real there's plenty of these kind of clips , though you can't be sure whether it is legal or not , for example someone who hates the girl after being dumped could be the illegal uploader without her consent. Or the guys could be underage but you wrongly assume they are of age , it is risky to download such files I believe
There is a mix of copyright-legal and copyright-violating content on the tube sites. The website owners claim ignorance, powerlessness, incompetence, apathy, lace of motivation, laziness, irresponsibile, (feel free to pick your preferred excuse or invent new ones) when it comes to screening out the violating vs. non-violating videos amongst the tons of content that get uploaded to their sites.
A tubesite by itself is not illegal (depending on the Country maybe) what is illegal is the use of it , if you put a birthday party it is a legitimate use if you put a copirighted video with no permission is illegal and so is to watch it
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Aug 6 2011 : 12:34AM
Actually, you can. It's known as embezzlement. Back in the 70's, George Harrison actually was found guilty of plagerizing himself and the song My Sweet Lord.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Aug 6 2011 : 2:09AM
^ No. He was found to have plagiarized the Chiffons' "He's So Fine" in writing "My Sweet Lord." Listen for yourself. Edited by - Harri Patel on 8/6/2011 2:13:50 AM
Rosco Fuji is confusing George Harrison's troubles with solo John Fogerty being sued by the owner of CCR's record label for sounding like he did with CCR. And that's all a copyright issue, not an embezzlement issue. You could be a CEO (but not sole proprietor), and still be embezzling if you skim off money in addition to your contractual salary. That would be stealing from the other shareholders.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Aug 6 2011 : 11:42PM
You're right, I was thinking Fogerty, but for some reason, I was stuck on Harrison. And I wasn't saying that was an embezzlement issue, I should have put a "Secondly" in there.
The site starts with downloading and installing their program, for Windows. Since I don't have Windows and don't install programs from porn sites, I don't know what they do that might be illegal.
Another handy way to tell these sites apart: If a virus alert pops up on your screeen, but then your computer's virus protection software is able to deal with the threat, then it was a legal site. But if the virus takes over your computer and forces you to take it in to the repair shop, then that was an illegal site.
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 6:48AM
I have a devils advocate question regarding the "tubes vs. legal download" debate. What kind of data has been collected to address whether folks use the illegal "tubes" to preview clips that they ultimately buy. For example, a person finds a Anabel Chong 3 minute segment, goes to IAFD or ADM and searches for the title then purchases the dvd. I also have a second question, how is are Ebay and Adult DVD Marketplace viewed by the industry since they sell adult titles at way below retail prices or prices at Adult DVD Empire and others?
Since sales have plummeted drastically since the introduction of tube sites, it's a safe assumption that no one is using them to preview what they might ultimately buy. In regards to ebay, reselling one dvd that has already been paid for once isn't in the same league with uploading it so that thousands can look at it for free. Edited by - mike quasar on 8/13/2011 6:41:40 PM
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Aug 14 2011 : 9:15AM
Mike thanks for responding, regarding your comments about eBay, does the same apply to Adult DVD Marketplace? Also, if tubes show content from defunct or discontinued film studios that do not have copyright agreements, could an end-user be liable? The same goes for segments uploaded from compilations (Leasure Time titles for example or old Max Hardcore stuff on Zane such as the Hitchiker series? Finally since tube sites are supposed to be like YouTube, would folks who upload private or amatuer material be guilty along with end-users. I'm asking alot of questions because I like man folks knew bit torrents were dangerous (for your hardware & illegal) and stayed along way away from them. However I erroneously believed that the tube sites paid some royalty fee for the segments they uploaded similar to musicians paying for samples from pre-recorded material. There have got to be tons and tons of people who have made the same mistake. I would just like to hear from you and other insiders or folks in this forum who have more experience with the legal issues involved. BTW, in my opinion the tubes are gone!
to the person who asked about "why a studio would let someone download 100 videos from a legal site like Videobox for $30 a month?" Because despite the proliferation of online pirates, the end customer, the porn viewer, still exists. There are 2 major categories of porn viewer: the regular and the occasional. The porn regular needs new material every time he goes to his porn provider. No matter how much porn he has, he must have new. He will always be buying, no matter how much porn he amasses. He is the perfect subscriber because if you give him new porn at the rate he needs he will never leave you. The occasional porn customer doesn't know everything about navigating the world of porn, so he will dip in and dip out. Whoever has the best publicity, be it pirate or legal, will get this guy. If he googles "blow job", whoever's at the top of that results page will get his money. It's up to a porn company's marketing department to decide whether they want to pay to be a the top of that page.
Tube sites pay no royalties. In many cases, the content you find on a tube site has been legally acquired but in many other cases, it has not. These sites hide under the banner of "user generated content" -basically saying "we are not responsible for what people upload" despite the fact that in most cases they themselves have uploaded the material. The onus is then on the copyright holder to request that the infringed material be taken down, which it usually is, only to be uploaded again the very next day. Multiply this activity by the hundreds of illegal tube sites and you can begin to see how impossible it is to protect your content. Tube sites and torrent sites are one hundred percent responsible for the decline of the industry despite what the skeptics say. If there was a place giving away cars, you'd be less inclined to purchase one. It's that simple. The primary strategy behind a tube site is to generate as much traffic as possible. If only .01% of that traffic converts to someone actually paying for something, it's still a tremendous amount of money. Ironically, youtube is very proactive in making sure that no copyrights are violated and they remove any infringing material almost immediately. Of course, youtube is owned by Google, the largest facilitator of wholesale copyright infringement and theft on the face of the earth. As far as people reselling DVD's, if it's a new release and you are undercutting legitimate distributors, that's certainly not a welcome activity. Otherwise, if you bought it, you own it and you can sell it if you want to.
Mike, thank you for contributing to this thread. I remember that you've addressed this issue on ADT in the past and I appreciate you giving us your insight again. I wonder about Evil Angel and the tubesites, though. Evil Angel seems to never have any product up on tubesites or on torrent sites. What do they do that's different from the other studios? Are they hypervigilant about protecting their content? Or are they in bed with the tubesites? I totally didn't even mean that last wordplay.
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Aug 15 2011 : 8:57AM
Mike you're awesome thanks for straightening this out for me, I do hope that copyright lawyers go after the tube companies vs. end users. Staying away from tube sites sounds like the right thing to do! I am concerned about one thing however, as Bustdown Gal says of the two kinds of porn consumers there are many "occassional" folks. I worry about the unfortunate occasional customer who could be laid to waste by an unscrupulous lawyer threatening to "out" his/her porn "habit" which could ruin many lives when the real problem is with the tube providers. They (pusher or pimp) get away with stealing and the "john" or "addict" is punished severely. That doesn't seem fair to me. All that said, you have presented a compelling case for going after providers with gusto, but as an average occasional porn user i'd only ask that you advise your legal counsel to proceed with caution regarding end users!
This brings up an interesting gray area. Theoretically anything that can be bought can be resold, but the porn industry does not yet have a download resale market.
^Downloads cannot legally be resold. In the fine print when you purchase downloads, re-distribution (or whatever terminology they use) is explicitly forbidden. No gray area.
Merchandise without resale value has less retail value. I will factor that into my download purchase decisions. Windows copies are individually licensed, so they can be used by whoever buys a used computer with Windows installed. I don't especially want to see the porn industry copy a Microsoft model, but I would like to see some legal alternatives to full retail for all downloads. Edited by - charn on 8/15/2011 4:52:33 PM
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Aug 23 2011 : 3:17AM
Question for Mike Quasar and others regarding "Tubes." Is it still pirating if an end-user watches a clip purposely and willingly provided by a producer/director to create interest in their product? Since Max Hardcore has been out he's been uploading tons and tons of his stuff presumably because so many online retail or resale sites/stores won't sell his material for fear of running afoul of the feds & right wing "christian" conservative prosecutors. It is an interesting strategy, but the question I pose is "if a person watches this Max's uploads from a Tube site supposedly created as a "video sharing" space....is it stealing?"
I don't know how you can be sure its the producer uploading their own stuff as opposed to a fan or pirate. But that said, there's already been a couple copyright infringement cases where the owners of the content have created "honeypot" schemes, whereby they've uploaded their own materials but purposefully mis-named (posting porn video as a record album as in this case). The owner of the content uploaded it to a known torrent site with the explicit intent of using it as bait to get the IP addresses of downloaders. Once the bait was taken, they were subsequently sued for copyright infringement/piracy. So really, unless you paid for it, I wouldn't trust anything you are downloading as being from a "legitimate" source. For all we know, Max/Paul's new "business model" is just like so many other porn producers....attempt to extort/sue their way back to some cash flow. Even if they have to bait you to do it.
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Aug 25 2011 : 1:50AM
B6 you could be right, I've read your stuff for quite a few years so i trust your hunches. on the other hand, Max could be doing what they used to refer to in retail as a "loss leader" to get customers in the door with cheap stuff in order to trade them up to more expensive stuff? who really knows i guess!
Introducing Lady LorReign
Posted - Sep 10 2010 : 4:09PM
