One thing me and my editor dude were pondering this weekend was what makes the 'porno standard'? I've been told by other directors that five scenes straight up, one after the other after the other, is all you need.
I'm from Anabolic/Diabolic where six scenes generally are the standard. I've actually tinkered around with putting 8 scenes in a video, then six with a DVD Extra scene and even 7 scenes.
The problem I faced with my movie edited this weekend (I won't name it cause this thread has nothing to do with my movies) is the fact that there are 6 main scenes, 14 mini-scenes, and 3 in-between bumpers. The final DVD version will be 3 hours and 20 minutes long with no DVD extras. I just can't imagine what more I could put inside.
However I'm faced with my own internal question: Is this overkill. My other next releases have, in essence, 6 scenes with an hour of genuine behind the scenes.
I'm fully aware that killer sex drives a video but what about some of the intangibles? I rarely get any feedback from the viewing public other than fan or hate mail often with dumbass questions about making sure I leave in dirty anals and the like. And I've noticed that there is a seeming lack of creativity in porn today. Certain production companies out there are content with putting 4 scenes at an hour and a half and they're happy with that.
Only in the past four months have I started to watch porno from other directors. I'm still relatively new to the directing game and my desire to watch porno was not to jerk off but to observer.
One thing I did notice is that the majority of the directors out there, I simply can not distinguish from one video to another. I just can't tell who the director is, their style, their creativity, their vision. Perhaps it's not my place to say, but if I can't distinguish their movies from others, I guess if I went to a video store, having their name on the box wouldn't mean Bo Diddley to me.
On the other hand, a handfull of directors I started to admire their work. Mason, Tom Zupko, William H., Joey Silvera, Johnny Darkko, Mike John, early Rodney Moore. Is it just me or is there a distinguishing pattern regarding the work they do? I also notice that there is a certain confidence with which they pursue their craft, a certain stylistic flair combined with vision, a certain 'attitude' which resonates on the screen in each and every video I've seen from them.
On the flipside, however, I'll be the first person to say that the majority of the directors out there look like cookie cutter, generic garbage. Shit, I may be included in this ghastly line up. Here I won't name names, but when I can't tell whose video I'm watching, when even the girls look like they're just moaning to get it over with, when there's no energy in the scene, when I'm bored to tears, when I feel like I could be watching a coma, that's when I feel there are problems.
Every scene looks the same. Every scene follows a mechanical ticking clock. Every scene starts the same and ends the same. I think I've said it before, there are three ways alot of porno start, almost like a book:
(1) A girl introduces herself and talks about how horny she is after the customary "Hi my name is blah blah, i'm blah blah years old, these are my blah blah titties, i'm so horny right now blah blah".
(2) A girl is in a setting, her ass hanging out, you follow the ass up a flight of stairs, into a house and bingo, the fuck starts.
(3) A dull interviewer who sounds like he just came out of a coma askes about 5 standard questions and (flash cut) the scene starts.
(4) A girl is by herself and suddenly overcome by a desire to fondle herself as she sits there in her nymphomania "I wish I could suck some dick" and BAM the scene starts.
I've heard some people on this board (especially in the midst of the HIV crisis) talk about the lack of creativity in porn. I think the directors I've mentioned are spearheading the drive, but what exactly is creativity and what is it's relation with porno. My personal opinion is that most buyers or renters of porn do it to jerk off. Perhaps they have a niche they love like swallowing or cream pies or teeny boppers, but they buy them to fantasize and jerk their chicken. My personal tastes also tell me that I don't care how you do it, a solo masturbation scene can never be creative cause I'd still be bored to tears but that's a personal taste issue.
I'm fully aware that we're not filmmakers in porno. We're also not artists or creative masterminds. After all, if we were, we definitely wouldn't be in porno but in mainstream. There's higher quality pussy in mainstream so it ain't precisely a sex addiction thing.
I can tell you one thing. Directing porno is one of the easiest and hardest thing to do out there. It is so easy to pull off, shoot videos, and just pump out content. However, it's hard to diffentiate yourself from the pack. What is it? Better girls? We all shoot the same girls. Better editing? I don't think the average end user notices a cut unless it's a bad cut. Better camera work? Is there really a difference between excellent gonzo camera work or just plain good camera work?
I suppose all I'm asking and seeing what you think is what exactly is the X Factor that you look for when you go to a video store to buy jerk material. After watching all these pornos, I think I'd do it based on girl cast and director names on the box.
THAT , dude, that attitude right there: that if you had any talent, artistic ability or creativity you "wouldn't be in porn" -- is what's wrong. Whether I'm being fooled or not, sometimes I get the feeling from some directors, camera operators, talent, etc. - that everyone involved was "glad to be there," and it shows.
But you're right: at the end of the day, when the jizz is all mopped up and everybody's gone for the day -- if you got everybody on set at the same time, sober, able to get wood, able to take it in all the holes that needed filling that day, and at least half of the load in the requisite orifice for that title's "niche of the day," hey, have a drink on me! Well done!
I think the "X Factor" is that there are people making porn who make porn on purpose , because they love it, not because they're incapable of moving into mainstream. Or they have some clarity of vision for what they want out of their porn, and bring it to the table every time, and don't settle for mediocrity because it's "just porn."
They don't look down on porn and/or themselves as a bunch of subhumans when, after reading and participating on ADT for a year now, I fuckin' know better .
Given a camera, two naked people and a well-lit room, anyone could make porn -- let's not sugarcoat it. As long as the talent is attractive, the sex is hot and you can see everything -- that's a 75% improvement over some of what's being schlepped together as it is, is it not?
Does that mean you shouldn't and/or can't aspire to more? Would that just be a waste of time? Great! Then, fuck it, forget about it.
It's just so sad to me when people say "it's just porn," or "take your time, it's hourly" or anything like that. We're only on this planet a short time; why not leave behind a legacy of work you're proud to have your name on, rather than just mailing it in? Why settle for mediocrity, just because "that's the way we've always done it."
When I was 18, I worked in construction on the lowest rung of the ladder - laborer. Haul lumber, sand and scrape walls, squirt caulk until your hands ached, all that -- but dammit, I made sure my caulk lines were even and completely filled the cracks. I made sure I was leaving something behind that I would be proud to have someone come behind me and say "hey, nice job with the caulk." Does it matter in the grand scheme of the universe? Maybe not, but it mattered to me , and that's what I don't hear out here all the time. Self-deprecation is one thing, but self-loathing is quite another.
Is it so much to ask of our purveyors of prurience to learn their craft, have fun and try thinking outside the silly cliched box once in a while? Does sex always end in a pop shot? Not at my house. Remember those awkward gropings in the back seat of a car in high school, how nervous and excited you were? I popped in my pants more than once feeling up some cute young thing's blossoming breasts while whispering in her ear, trying to talk her into going farther than she might've thought she wanted to go. Is sex just interview / strip / bj / eat pussy / vag / anal / facial? No!! So why reduce it to that?
Burn out? How do you deal with that? I've been in the computer industry for over ten years, here's how I deal with burnout: ADT. Seriously though, by distraction, taking a break from reading 1500 page technical manuals all day, every day. I'd fuckin' crack if all I did was immerse myself in my work all the time. Of course you don't want to end up bitter, jaded, and soulless. Get a puppy. A little joy and happiness, especially in the midst of all the fear, the sniping, the inhumane posts on ADT, the atrocities of war, the shit we all hear on the news every day, makes it a little easier to bear.
When there's some sense of purpose, of contentedness and a sense that no matter what you think - the universe is unfolding as it should (yes, bullshit ripped off from the Desiderata). And you're part of it. You matter. Why? You're here , aren't you? (Please go read that link -- as trite and silly as you may think it is; read it like it's your first time ever reading it, and you will feel better, I promise, and understand where I'm coming from with all this.)
Here's a hackneyed old saying: If only the birds with the prettiest voices sang, something about how quiet the forest would be. Get me? And have fun! It's SEX!! Try not to lose sight of what a wonderful thing that is.
My book How to Make Porn and Still Feel Good About Yourself will be in stores by autumn. Any advance orders?
So, anyway Chico, that's what I think, at least right this moment. Hope you have a great one, and do something you're proud of today.
What differentiates the good directors from the pack? Oh, that's too easy, Chico. Their personalities. They make movies that they want to see, not what they think somebody else wants to see.
Let's take Jonni Darkko for example. The minute one of his scenes starts I know that here's a guy who cares. The performers haven't done anything yet but the production values tell me that Jonni's not just mailing it in, he's putting in the effort.
Let's take a look at Rocco. Here's a guy who has a passion for sex. He's not the world's greatest filmmaker but his ability to connect with the women in his movies informs his scenes with a reality that few others can match.
Let's take a look at Joey Silvera. Here's a guy that's got a quirky vision tied in to a desire to show personalities. Not just bodies, but the personalities inhabiting them.
I could go on but I think you get the idea. These guys aren't reading it off a script, they're not scouring ADT to make sure they are in line with what the majority of fans want. They're pursuing their own visions and by being true to themselves developing their own followings.
As with any profession, porn directors should love what they're doing or get out...assuming they can afford to. The 1-2 title a month grind requisite imposed on directors is not conducive to creativity. Anytime you're forced to produce, you're more likely to phone it in. Paint-by-numbers porno is the end result. Why bother seeking inspiration when you can fall back on the tried and proven formula? As long as you have X number of anals and X number of facials, people will buy it, right? Apparently so. Right now, the market supports this practice, so there's no compelling reason to change or improve.
I think directors like Mason are refreshing because they don't crank out 12 titles a year...among other reasons. In Mason's case, she's obviously had plenty of time to think things through and does everything possible to bring her vision to the screen. That's what I want to see more of.
I realize it's a business, but the urgency to push product out the door at record speed is not always transparent to the viewer.
I do find my preference is for directors who do not appear on camera having sex. (Joey and Jules excepted, but they often are more peripheral as cocksmen) And I also think a lot of the more generic stuff is generated by performer-directors. I have not seen much Jonny Darrko stuff, but intend to check out a few based on all the applause.
But, yeah, I'd vote for a) foregrounding personalities, b) avoiding the cliched kinks and being original, c) please God, at least a little "technique", d) can the cheeseball stuff -- a la David Luger, e) let the scenes reveal at least some reason and rationale as to why the filmmaker wants to shoot them, whether it's a William H, 6-man pseudo homeless guy "cock compass" or Joey Silvera making Cris Taliana pretend to be his "neighbor bitch" and he's the dirty old man banging her in his laundry room (hot! on her way home from soccer practice (hot!). I'm so sick of watching people fuck on couches (even though I love fucking on couches myself, and afgter 15 years of owning the same couch perhaps I should drag it into a field and torch it in a proper Viking burial -- or ship it to Boogie Nights 3.0).
I wouldn't say that Darkko's found his 'voice' yet, but the man obviously has skills and is willing to use them. With his photographer's eye I think he could be the director many of us wish Andrew Blake was. I don't know that's what he's aiming for, but check him out and you'll see what I mean.
It's hard to pinpoint, but I know it when I see it. Part of it is a voice, or perspective. My new fav is bookworm bitches. It has a specific premise...an A for a Lay. Man in power without cruelty or hostility. I loved streetblowjobs too. There is something specific to wank about. A scenario that we can use in the fantasy file. What makes me pick one box cover over another is strictly the look of the girls, but what makes me go back to a website is the theme or style. I guess that these are just gimmicks and that people get bored of them quickly, but when they click...it is great. Hot girl, believable premise, plenty of coverage of her face, no under the nuts shots, and a smiling facial. My 2c.
I cut your post down in my quote...wanted to save some bits.
Porn is one of the most personal choices you can make, so its almost impossible to generalize from what one person says to what you should market. The loudest id-massager is not always the most prevalent view.
I think the most important thing is to know why the people on the screen are having sex-the set up. I know they're getting paid, and that's the real reason, but I like to be able to take off my reality hat and think that they're actually doing what they're doing because they...well, whatever, that's you're job, to figure out the set-up. The set-up for the action brings you into the scene, without it all you have are plunging genitals.
The 'hi my name is' or the interviewer bit might be OK for a single movie, maybe 2. Its done. Please stop, whoever you are if you're doing this.
Beyond that, I want to see people that look like they're enjoying what they're doing. Unobtrusive edits. At least average camera-lighting. No story line that I need to pay more attention to than a sitcom. No wristwatches because that annoys Renee.
The issue is that many people are fixated on a single act or 2. Videos that cater to that tend to be a prolonged set-up for whatever the event is...double-whatever cream-that. Essentially, you've got 2(or more) people going through the numbers untiil they do whatever the picture on the box cover is. Dear god, just skip the souless lead-in and get it over with.
You all are probably wondering what Myk is talking about - it's the Renee Wristwatch-O-Meter, where I give a rating to most of the porn films I've reviewed, based on how many scenes contain a male performer who's wearing a watch. Worse yet is a guy wearing a watch and a wedding band , though he's naked otherwise.
It's this sort of thing that can lessen the heat of a scene. Do we the viewers have to know that the guy has the correct time, and what his marital status is? Isn't this supposed to be about fantasy, from the viewer's point of view?
That's something I sense in a lot of films - the inattention that the director gave to what the viewer will be seeing once the disc is popped into the DVD player. For example, flighty camera work, or too-long close-up shots, or choppy editing, or poor/harsh lighting. Even if the sex action is great, and the chemistry good, it all gets downgraded by this inattention . Amd a lot of times, the action isn't all that great.
A while ago, in response to one of my reviews, an actor/director wrote me that he had a great time filming/performing in a certain scene. I'm sure that he did. But the camera work was sloppy, with the cameraman not knowing what to focus on. When his camera was on one man/woman pair, the viewer could hear the other man/woman pair off-screen moaning their heads off, which left me wondering: what the hell's going on with the second pair? What am I missing now? Why should I have to look at the first pair, if the second pair sounds like they are fucking themselves to death?
My sense was that the performers were naked and fucking, so what more should I want or expect. Which is a rather widespread attitude, I presume, and honestly, I think naked/fucking is all that most porn fans want or expect. As long as these two criteria are met, most fans are happy, whether they are casual viewers who watch porn 3-4 times a year, or the hardcore porn fans who watch 3-4 new titles a week.
Love Eva Angelina in her Shane's World "dating game" with Mr. Pete and "Dick Tracy" (Jesus, someone help out these retards with picking their names, will ya?). Very natural and fresh and fun and hot! Mr. Pete got a little rough but it worked totally in the context.
But, I am with Renee, it makes a HUGE fucking difference when stuff is properly lensed. Along with burning the goddam YELLOW COUCH, I'd like to teach the porn world not to sing, but how to use quality lighting and video equipment, and how to emphasize full-body shots and medium shots that keep the girl's face as much in the screen as her soon-to-be-gaping-cream-pie-filled ass. A tight shot of pecker-stuffed-twat means jackshit to me as a viewer. For me, nothing quite beats reverse cowgirl anal -- Jeeze, PLEASE see Roxy Jezel in the opening scene for "Service Animals 16." That is the SHIZZLE! No better "how to" manual exists than to simply learn from Joey Silvera how to instigate a scene.
I've become seriously fascinated with the vibe of a video. In every instance where I truly appreciate a director's work, it's because there is a certain personality or a vibe which encompasses the video itself which is primarily why I really like the styles of the directors I've mentioned.
Perhaps that's the X factor.
It's bad when I see a director's video and immediately press the Fast Forward button to get to the meat. There's no build up to the jerk, I suppose, because the intro to the scene doesn't intrigue me or bores me to tears.
One director who I will always admire, for example, is Khan Tusion. Though we may differ in stylistic approaches, the way he can razor sharp pinpoint directly into the girl's weaknesses is a fascinating facet of his work. I only wish I could approach 10 percent of that level of pinpoint accuracy. Love him or hate him, his main goal is not the physical but the emotional which is pure human element revealed.
I always tell my minions who shoot junk for me. It's the content, not the camera work. Great scene, bad camera work is still decent footage (particularly on the Internet). Horrible scene, great camera work is a worthless scene. That's just my opinion on it. Fortunately they achieve both a great scene, good camera work and that ultimately does wonders.
The reason I point alot of this out in my original thread is that the average consumer doesn't know thing one about porn and buys based on the box or the length (cheap comp titles drive bookstore profits). I would say this applies to about 95% of the purchasers. My guess is that this doesn't necessarily apply to most ADT people who are rabid porn hobbyists and know what they want.
However, if I happen to rent a video from a certain director and find I love it, I will remember and continue to buy it. Isn't that the goal of everyone selling product? Whether it be prized lamb chops or bananas?
This is a really interesting thread. I think Porn companies and directors seriously underestimate their audience. Just as in the mainstream movie industry I seek out films based on the director, actors and production company and I'm certainly not alone. These are the 3 basic things I look for.
Positivity - This is the major reason that companies don't capture the large female market - time and time again we see terrible porn where it's just another excuse for misogyny and a negative represenatation of a women as a piece of meat rather than a sexual being in her own right. The uninspired set ups, the same positions, the "dismembered penis" POV filmmaking. When a man and a women are in a relationship and go to buy porn together, the women will always pick the title and not as many women are fans of couples films as you may imagine. Where are the scenes where a woman is teaching a guy to really eat a pussy? Where are the scenes where she comes and he doesn't?
Performance - Genuine heat in scenes, intensity, smiling, laughing, being relaxed, having fun, only doing acts the perfomers enjoy etc
Personality - The director needs to have a style, an attention to detail and a love of what he/she is doing. If they don't love sex and worship the female form (appreciating it for beauty not just holes to fill)then they should get a job elsewhere. I heart John Stagliano.
Good luck Chico. I hope better things are coming out of Anabolic in the future. I have hated the anabolic movies I have seen, for the treatment of the girls, and so have ditched the studio, but you sound like you're onto a good wavelength.
Porn companies may indeed underestemate their audience, but I think the porn audience also overestimates the resources that even top porn studios bring to bear on their projects. Even by indie film standards (where many or most of the people are working for a screen credit) porn budgets are preposterously low and production schedules preposterously truncated. No matter how good a director's intentions, or how skilled a film makers s/he is, if s/he's got to shoot and edit one 90 minutes video a month, there's just not going to be enough time to do things at a very high level of finish. You simply can't shoot 4 scenes in a day and expect that everyone will be as excited about the 4th scene as they were about the 1st scene. You can't edit a ninety minute film (let along a 3h20m!) "over a weekend" and expect to get the level of flow and finess that we demand for other genres of film/video.
Conversely, anyone with the desire and talent to work at a higher level is not going to be drawn to porn. For a lot of people, the chance to work at the top of their ablities is more important than money.You simply can't give your best effort working economic constraints of the (grind 'em out!) porn industry.
You know, I think I'm even ready to forgive the yellow couch, if I can believe that there's a reason for them to be on it other than that it happened to be close to the camera.
I think I've got as much $8 porn that I hate as I do $25 porn. Its interesting that the higher prices don't always equal higher creativity and standards.
Please, sir, may I have another? *WHACK* Please, sir, may I have another? *WHACK* Please, sir, may I have another? *WHACK* Please, sir, may I have another? *WHACK*
I would highly suggest watching Asian Fucking Nation, Trophy Whores, G for Gianna, Slut Collector (for a different edge), and most of the Angels of Debauchry, Bet your Ass or Boob Bangers series. Ohh and Girls Love Girls 2 ... if you like GG. Ok nevermind ... just pick up anything he has done LOL (I just noticed i listed almost all of his lines).
BTW, Just saw Boob Bangers 4 (not out yet) it is going to be awesome!!! It has a killer cast!
Edited by - sworldmegan because she can't type today and had a ton of typos
Agree with Renee - the lensing is also important. All too often there is too much footage of cock pounding pussy. If you have a hot female, show her! Closeups are good but don't let it dominate the scene. Camera work and lighting is no brainer. With the quality of DVD and modern digital video you gotta have that.
Some like Jules and Quasarman have an eye for making a woman look hot. When a girl knows how to dress, damn it looks good. There is no shortage of porn with 18-19 year olds buck naked getting nailed.
Chemistry is easy to say, but has to be the hardest to get. If two people don't click, they don't click. I guess the best approach would be to do your best to make it lighthearted and fun.
Edit - As mentioned, stay away from the static, Oh hey, there's a dick, let's fuck! It's ridiculous setup.
