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All Forums > Gay DVD Talk > Gay DVD Talk Forum Page 13 > Thick As Thieves and its ilk
AuthorPost
Billy Bathgate
Member


Choooooooch!
507 Posts
7/02
Posted - Jan 10 2004 : 12:49PM
Referencing the “Thick As Thieves” thread previously....

This may be a little more self-confessional than anyone wants to read or I want to write but.....

I just don’t get the drooling, fawning, worshiping over titles like Thick As Thieves and the entire Bjorn oeuvre and its imitators, the Bel Ami stuff, the William Higgins Eastern European epics, etc., etc., etc. Yes they are usually well filmed but to me the sex is a bit mechanical, a bit forced and a bit too unenthusiastic. Am I missing something? The gay porn audience is a wide spectrum of tastes and I know mine run toward the rougher stuff but I still can find the gentler pure sex stuff great and hot. But these things usually don’t even meet that test, IMHO. Judging by the extensive postings on this board, I would seem to be the only randy, horny gay guy out there who has this problem with these films. However, I simply fail to believe that is the case. Does anyone else feel this way?

And with the success and popularity of titles from Titan, Raging Stallion, MSR, etc., I would hesitate to characterize S&M as a niche. If it is, it’s a very wide and deep niche, indeed. I would argue that most of what those studios produce contains some elements of S&M brought into what is essentially today's mainstream porn.

Billy

joeblow69
Member

946 Posts
2/00
Posted - Jan 10 2004 : 1:04PM
I can certainly see where you are coming from Billy. As much as I've loved Bjorn's work, after you see a number of them, they're pretty much all the same. I just can't get myself to buy another one of his films. The last I've seen was the Isle of Men... and it's weird, because I really did like that one. I've seen a few snippets of the newer ones, and it does seem to me like the same ol' same ol'. Plus, his focus on 4-ways and more-ways is getting a bit annoying. Maybe if Bjorn used more gay men in his films the sex wouldn't seem quite so mechanical?

These days I've been focusing my money filling out my Titan collection. Just picked up Slammer, which I had been avoiding for a long time. Turns out to be a pretty damn good flick! Comparing the sex from something like Slammer to a KB flick, it's just a completely different vibe.


YogaGrrl
self-removed user

757 Posts
12/01
Posted - Jan 10 2004 : 2:28PM
I really, really wanted to like Thick as Thieves, because I like GaySatyr and I know he's said it's his all-time favorite. And I could see some good things about that movie. The men are attractive, the production values are pretty, and the storyline is romantic. But my overall reaction to the sex was similar to yours; I found it a bit mechanical, unrealistic and not very engaging.

I've been watching my first ever Titan movie over the past week, and it's been a completely different experience. I LOVE Pumped Up. I took a real risk in purchasing this for $35, because even though it's an older title (2000, I think) I couldn't find any reviews. Luckily, a friend recommended it, and it's perfect for me. Buff older guys frolicking in a gym environment, with plenty of playfulness and enthusiasm and a bit of humor (I adore that the exercise bike has a dildo attached). It's taking me a long time to get through this movie because... well, frankly because I've already had four or five orgasms during only the first hour of viewing, which is a highly unusual experience for me.

Pumped Up might even pull me out of my reviewing hiatus, though technically I'm on a self-elected break until mid-March.

GaySatyr
Senior Member

Half dirty ol' man; half horny ol' goat!
1684 Posts
10/00
Posted - Jan 10 2004 : 3:38PM
I'll defend Bjorn with this point: He raised production values in gay porn by at least an order of magnitude. Not all of his titles are equally as good -- there is variation. However, the level of performance in his videos is exceptional. There isn't a loser in the bunch. Neither Titan Media, nor Bel Ami, nor any other gay studio I can think of can make that claim.

As for the sameness, that applies to other studios as well, except that most studios have more than one director, giving them some added variation. I find it fairly easy to spot work by different directors and it isn't just by the performers appearing in their videos. Bruce Cam, probably Titan's most talented director, puts his touch on anything he does, including the many videos on which he worked as cameraman before joining a few close friends to form Titan Media. The same can be said of George Duroy, Taylor Hudson (the first of Chi Chi LaRue's many directorial names), John Rutherford, Herve Handsome, John Travis, Csaba Borbely, Paul Barresi, Wash West, Derek Kent, Dirk Yates, Jean-Daniel Cadinot, Lucas Kazan, Michael Lucas, Matt Sterling, Kevin Clarke, Josh Eliot, Chip Daniels, Steven Scarborough, Joe Gage, Michael Zen, Phil St John, Thor Stephens, Wakefield Poole, and many, many more.

As for the argument about 1-on-1 versus groups, the complaint goes both ways: reviews seem to bemoan the lack of variation in videos featuring duos and the lack of duos in videos featuring groups. Bjorn usually gives us both: off-hand, I can't remember a single Bjorn video without a 1-on-1 scene -- many have two such scenes. There is usually at least one 3-way and at least one scene with a larger group. Given that Bjorn's videos usually have five (and sometimes six) scenes, that is a pretty good variety.

It is true that chemistry among some of his performers sometimes isn't what it should be but I wouldn't describe the sex as being purely mechanical. In too many videos from too many other production companies (every one of whom also use gay-for-pay performers, including Titan Media), the sex is too often even less than mechanical -- it's often simulated to the point of being nonexistent. I've seen many fucking scenes where the bodies don't even line up -- much less those where the humping is shot from an angle where the likelihood that body parts are only touching by accident will most likely be masked. And don't forget the tongue-wagging-in-space rimming found in too many videos from too many major studios. Thank god -- and in no small part, thank Bjorn -- such practices are beginning to be a thing of the past. Sex in Bjorn titles is, at the least, very real.

I've watch the hardcore versions of Titan Media's Fallen Angel series -- all of them. And, I admit that I'm enthralled. They are fantastic, exceptionally well-done videos -- quite possibly some of the best ever made. And, yes, they get me off. But that doesn't mean I like them: I don't. I find them as grotesque and as off-putting as I find them exciting.

By contrast, I find the final scene in Bjorn's Thick as Thieves to be my ideal. It is that final scene that raises this video to a level few others have attained: It features tender and romantic, yet still incendiary sex between two men where, if the chemistry between them isn't real, then they both deserve Oscars for their performances. It doesn't matter to me that the theme of the video is far-fetched or that some of the scenes are more comic than pornographic (the artist's studio 3-way) -- they are still good sex and the eye-candy factor is off the scale. BTW, Thick as Thieves contains two groups scenes, two 3-ways and the final 1-on-1 scene between Arpad Banfalvi and Zsolt Kopazs - both of whom admit to "having played around a little" but who identify themselves as being basically straight.

Yes, S&M is a very broad niche, I suspect the broader because it is only fairly recently being fleshed out. Many of the leather- and S&M-themed titles in the past danced so lightly through the subject that they were more laughable than exciting or foreboding. Before S&M titles from Titan Media, I could more easily expect the performers to be trading quiche recipes than having sex; with Titan's releases, there are no quiche leftovers in my mind. Plus, there is some really good product coming from more than just Titan Media. Regardless, it just isn't my taste in porn.

I've rambled enough....

~ GaySatyr

P.S. That's okay, YogaGrrl -- I asked for your opinion, not your reflection of my opinion. I respect other's points of view -- it's beside the point that mine is always right!

YogaGrrl
self-removed user

757 Posts
12/01
Posted - Jan 10 2004 : 5:08PM
LOL! But ya know, GaySatyr, I'm still glad you recommended Thick as Thieves. Even though it didn't speak to me as much as it does to you, it was a pleasant enough experience to watch twice. I've also loaned it out to a couple who requested it, and they really enjoyed it.

Daddy Oohhh! makes movies that are often romantic, BTW, and they never (never!) use gay-for-pay performers. I've spoken directly with the producer about this, and it's strictly against their philosophy to put straight men in gay scenes. So studios like that do exist, but you might have to do some searching. Daddy Oohhh! movies don't have 50+ cumshots like Thick as Thieves, however, and the technical aspects aren't as good (yet) and the angles aren't always explicit. They do show sex in a way that's very human, very realistic, and that's what I like best.

Edited by - YogaGrrl on 1/10/2004 5:18:09 PM

 
TonyC
Comstock Films

2523 Posts
8/03
Posted - Jan 11 2004 : 8:35AM
If someone made a film with Daddy Oohh's casting and chemistry, but with competent production they'd really have something. Daddy Oohhh players are very good looking, but in a realife sort of way that makes seems them fuck much more fun than Bjorn's plastic boys (who were themselves much more fun to watch fuck than Chatsworth's plastic girls.)

As to production philosophy, I don't really care whether people are gay for pay, straight for pay, pretending they're into it or putting on a good show. A production philosophy should be a method and approach for getting what you want on the screen; not an audience guide to excusing a production's short comings.

-T.C.

RobHammer
Independent Producer

San Jose, CA
444 Posts
4/03
Posted - Jan 19 2004 : 2:03PM
I hadn't seen anything by Kristen Bjorn and was really psyched to get Bone Island for review. Well....

I watched some of the first scene myself last week and then most of the first two scenes last night with my wife. She really liked the box cover. It's well shot with great production values and all that. The guys didn't seem overly plastic and I thought some of the setup was funny. She doesn't have a real boy/boy fetish and after several rounds of threesome acrobatics in the first scene it got boring enough to hit the fast forward. In the second scene she thought the guys looked great in police uniforms. So far though, a few stirrings but no real zing for us. It's third down in my review pile and I'm lucky to finish one a week. More later.

Edited by - RobHammer on 1/19/2004 2:03:52 PM

joeblow69
Member

946 Posts
2/00
Posted - Jan 19 2004 : 6:18PM
Hmmm... suprisingly enough, (especially considering how much I've written about having given up on Bjorn) I picked up a copy of Bone Island this week. (I got the shorter 4 scene version, though). I may have to take back what I've said in the past... I've only really watched the first scene, but I REALLY enjoyed it. Of course, the fact that I was having torrid sex on the couch at the time might have had something to do with it!
RobHammer
Independent Producer

San Jose, CA
444 Posts
4/03
Posted - Feb 3 2004 : 2:35PM
I finished the review of Bone Island. It's a great piece of work. There are a lot of group scenes, not all of which produce a lot of real heat. I did like the couch sequence in scene 2, and the first part of the orgy scene throbbed. The last scene is one on one and excellent in terms of chemistry and heat. I've read about different versions of gay movies, but wasn't aware that this one might not be the full version. It's 4 scenes, but pretty lengthy at 2 hours 15 minutes. I looked at Kristen Bjorn's website and didn't see anything about different versions.
GaySatyr
Senior Member

Half dirty ol' man; half horny ol' goat!
1684 Posts
10/00
Posted - Feb 3 2004 : 4:18PM
Thus far, only three of Bjorn's DVD titles -- Isle of Men, Dreamers, and Bone Island - all fairly recent -- are offered with director's cut versions. Each of the three includes one additional scene. It's Bjorn's way of enticing people to buy DVDs directly through his web site at full retail such that he gets all the money. Not even TLA Video has his director's cut versions.

~ GaySatyr

GaySatyr
Senior Member

Half dirty ol' man; half horny ol' goat!
1684 Posts
10/00
Posted - Feb 3 2004 : 4:19PM
BTW, RobHammer, great review. ~ GS
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