Twistys "scandal"?

Author	Post
Deleted Member 116 Posts 2/14	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 8:09AM @Mods: please move this thread to the appropriate subforum if required, thank you. This is NOT a thread meant to bash one performer or another. Is this just Vanessa Veracruz getting mad at losing a vote or is there more behind all of it? http://www.mikesouth.com/reader-mail/9372-9372/ Quote: Publically I am requesting that if you have a Twistys membership please cancel it today and support ethical business behavior and our boycott on Twistys. http://forums.clubvanessaveracruz.com/?thread=voice-your-opinion-on-the-twistys-scandal [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 9:36AM ^There's more behind it. She came in second place, but they announced that the person who came in 5th place actually came in second (Madison Ivy) because they wanted a boy/girl performer on the trip was was a prize for the first and second place winners. Her, Elle Alexandria, and Sophia Knight all placed above Madison. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18631 Posts 4/08	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 10:16AM Yeah the main dude at Twistys (Rob?) even quit over this. It was ordered that he change the results by the MindGeek (formerly called Manwin) execs above him. Here's more on it: Twistys Treat of the Year Contest Sparks Outrage (UPDATED) MindGeek are bulls in the china shop of porn. They throw around all their illegal tube site money at whatever sticks, with no knowledge or care for what fans want, what differentiates the studios/sites from each other, etc. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10078 Posts 3/10	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 12:33PM I'd love to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they didn't know what would happen when they did that but I can't help but feel that they just didn't give a shit and they want to make what was essentially a solo glamorous porn site into a more hardcore site with a bigger emphasis on b/g content. I can see the advantage in doing something like that if you didn't already have plenty of other sites that offer this type of content but we all know Twistys is owned by the same people who own Brazzer, Wicked, DP, RK and a slew of other sites so the b/g hardcore market is already something they offer in abundance. I know times are hard and a job is a job but how many of the affected models will really want to work for any of the Mindgeek/Manwin owned sites from now on? How many of their friends will want to? Even if every model involved goes and works for them. How many paying members have they now lost who won't be going back? You can't buy this kind of bad publicity. You can only earn it by screwing people over. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18631 Posts 4/08	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 12:48PM ^ Yeah but the thing with MindGeek is that it doesn't matter, because I bet if you add up all of their subscription profits, and all of their DVD sales profits, it's just a drop in the bucket in comparison with the money they make off ads on their tube sites. Several of the tube sites rank amongst the most visited websites in the world. 3 are in the top 100 according to the Alexa rankings. And MindGeek owns all of these. If you lumped them all together as one site (which you might as well, since they all have the same owner), imagine how many views per day that is. And that's just the top three. They own several more in the top 500 websites in the world, and several more that are below that. So the visits to their own sites, subscriptions, DVD sales, really don't matter much to them. Now, I don't imagine they want those sites to lose money either, but the money those sites make is so small in comparison to their big money makers that surely they can only care so much about them. [Link]

Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 1:09PM The Walt Disney Company does this sort of thing all the time. It's always their demographically desirable, as their bean-counters define it, family of four with one boy and one girl, that wins all their "contests," and gets chosen for all manner of special events, perks and promotional opportunities in their theme parks. Ever see the fat middle-aged single guy leading the parade? What Twisty's apparently has done, however, is just unfair and stupid, IMHO. For one thing, they invalidated the fan's choices. (Disney merely picks who they want in the first place.) The right thing to do, as we all agree that Manwin doesn't need to worry about the minor costs involved, was to extend the prizes and perks to all five girls and invite them all on the trip/shoots. Fans would have loved it. [Link]
Dread Senior Member Latex and boobs 5085 Posts 3/07	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 1:27PM The backlash had gotten so bad in the Twistys forums that they banned admins, mods, longtime PAYING members, and ACTUAL MODELS FOR THE SITE. Then since they couldnt deal they shut the member forum down completely hoping to contain the situation. This story is nuts. In the same vein not surprising for Manwin/Mindgeek or whatever they're called now. ----Dread's Twitter---- [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 3:47PM ^ They went so far as to actually ban the guy that they bought Twisty's from. It's crazy. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/23/2014 3:47:50 PM [Link]
JigglyBoobs Senior Member 1614 Posts 3/12	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 4:11PM To play devil's advocate, there are all sorts of business practices in this industry some would consider unethical or deplorable but they are so commonplace and institutionalized that nobody bats an eyelid to it. However, all of a sudden a vote is rigged and there's outrage. With that said, if paying members have been banned for their complaints and probably not violating the terms and conditions of their subscription, that's definitely out of order. [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 4:45PM ^ A few well-written complaints to the pertinent state's attorney general, regarding mistreatment and cheating of paying customers, would get Twisty's attention right quick. Of course, there probably aren't too many of us Internet perverts going to write that letter. Maybe some serious complaints to Twisty's credit card processors would focus their thought processes? [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 5:46PM Honestly, this whole thing ends if they publicly apologize to Vanessa and give her and Elle a few shoots to make up for it (and it's not like they weren't going to shoot either one 5-10 times in the next year). I'm legit amazed that they haven't just done and done that and gotten it over with. [Link]
Idlewild66 Deactivated User 721 Posts 12/11	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 5:56PM Sucks for the girls, but I don't care and think it is no big deal. I came to conclusion years ago, that most porn related contests are rigged. All of the AVN awards, Ms Freeones, XBiz, etc. All that stuff is rigged, and I have no problem with it. It isn't like if a girl I like wins, I win something (think NCAA bracket), nor is it really a factor in determining who the directors shot. I can't think of his name at the moment (been drinking), but a director from the 80's had famous quote, that went along the lines of, "the directors are shooting their fantasies, not yours." It is what it is. This industry has always been "f'ed up". Weird though, if you had bit of money and you wanted to invest in industry that the government stays out of, this would be the one.....oh, wait, thats what Manwin/Mindfreek is doing. [Link]
Idlewild66 Deactivated User 721 Posts 12/11	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 5:58PM Goldstein wrote: ^ A few well-written complaints to the pertinent state's attorney general, regarding mistreatment and cheating of paying customers, would get Twisty's attention right quick. Click to expand Umm, I'd be pissed if my state's attorney general got involved in this. priorities? [Link]
youngrphoto Senior Member 3539 Posts 3/14	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 5:59PM JigglyBoobs wrote: To play devil's advocate, there are all sorts of business practices in this industry some would consider unethical or deplorable but they are so commonplace and institutionalized that nobody bats an eyelid to it. However, all of a sudden a vote is rigged and there's outrage. Click to expand Manwin/MindGeek has been the tidal-wave that has revolutionized this business from top to bottom. Their understanding of the digital age has allowed them to re-write the rules of the entire industry. Complaining about some rigged contest is tantamount to the proverbial rearranging of deckchairs on the Titanic. If the jilted performers had good managers, they would turn this situation into a powerful marketing boost. They already have received more attention for losing than they would have for winning. Why not put together a "runner's up" Costa Rica shoot and make an even bigger splash? Look for opportunities! MindGeek is not going away. Fabian Thylmann may no longer be running things, but the business model is a strong one. Figuring out how to survive given these new rules is the real challenge. [Link]
La Lunitica Deactivated User Zenogias 181 Posts 6/13	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 6:55PM What's strange to me is if this really is just a drop in the bucket of the Mindgeek empire, why go to all these lengths to cover up everything? Anyway, the real dick move is blocking members from cancelling their subscriptions. [Link]

Blue Agave Deactivated User 108 Posts 3/14	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 7:00PM La Lunitica wrote: Anyway, the real dick move is blocking members from cancelling their subscriptions. Click to expand How is this even legal? [Link]
La Lunitica Deactivated User Zenogias 181 Posts 6/13	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 7:04PM Blue Agave wrote: La Lunitica wrote: Anyway, the real dick move is blocking members from cancelling their subscriptions. Click to expand How is this even legal? Click to expand Probable because it's packaged as a technical error when members have tried (there are screenshots). Of course, the timing of these errors are very suspect. [Link]
Idlewild66 Deactivated User 721 Posts 12/11	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 7:08PM La Lunitica wrote: Blue Agave wrote: La Lunitica wrote: Anyway, the real dick move is blocking members from cancelling their subscriptions. Click to expand How is this even legal? Click to expand Probable because it's packaged as a technical error when members have tried (there are screenshots). Of course, the timing of these errors are very suspect. Click to expand I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I gotta ask for a link. LINK? [Link]
Idlewild66 Deactivated User 721 Posts 12/11	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 7:09PM youngrphoto wrote: JigglyBoobs wrote: To play devil's advocate, there are all sorts of business practices in this industry some would consider unethical or deplorable but they are so commonplace and institutionalized that nobody bats an eyelid to it. However, all of a sudden a vote is rigged and there's outrage. Click to expand Manwin/MindGeek has been the tidal-wave that has revolutionized this business from top to bottom. Click to expand Manwin/MindGeek hasn't revolutionized ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They just bought a bunch of companies. That is all. [Link]
La Lunitica Deactivated User Zenogias 181 Posts 6/13	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 7:15PM Idlewild66 wrote: La Lunitica wrote: Blue Agave wrote: La Lunitica wrote: Anyway, the real dick move is blocking members from cancelling their subscriptions. Click to expand How is this even legal? Click to expand Probable because it's packaged as a technical error when members have tried (there are screenshots). Of course, the timing of these errors are very suspect. Click to expand I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I gotta ask for a link. LINK? Click to expand It's in killbillvol69's link above, but here is the image from the story. [Link]
youngrphoto Senior Member 3539 Posts 3/14	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 7:44PM Manwin/MindGeek hasn't revolutionized ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They just bought a bunch of companies. That is all. Click to expand Yeah, right. And Craigslist is just a website. [Link]
Idlewild66 Deactivated User 721 Posts 12/11	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 7:49PM youngrphoto wrote: Manwin/MindGeek hasn't revolutionized ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They just bought a bunch of companies. That is all. Click to expand Yeah, right. And Craigslist is just a website. Click to expand Ok What has Manwin/MindGeek done to "revolutionize" the industry besides buying companies? Don't say tube sites, because they didn't start those. In fact, some the ones they own were started by other entities. Hey before you answer, you might want to look the word, REVOLUTIONIZED, in the dictionary. I'm waiting. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10078 Posts 3/10	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 8:00PM killbillvol69 wrote: ^ Yeah but the thing with MindGeek is that it doesn't matter, because I bet if you add up all of their subscription profits, and all of their DVD sales profits, it's just a drop in the bucket in comparison with the money they make off ads on their tube sites. Click to expand See I always thought that the number of hits a tube site gets is only good for bragging rights and nothing else because those hits only mean that these people are watching porn for free. Was I wrong to think that? I know tube sites have banners to paid sites so you can get secondary hits but anyone getting it for free has very little incentive to actually pay for it. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18631 Posts 4/08	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 8:30PM ^ Tube sites have banners for paid sites. Banners that are seen by numbers that are possibly millions of times larger than the numbers of people that would be exposed to your banner if it were just about anywhere on the internet. That kind of exposure equals pretty big dollars for the ad space. But they don't only have banners for paid sites. They have banners for dating sites, ED pills, sex toys, all sorts of stuff. And again, when you're getting the kind of traffic that the big tube sites get, that means big fuckin money for those ads. It's like how companies pay $3 million+ for a 30 second ad during the Superbowl. Because they know a LOT of people are going to see it. [Link]
youngrphoto Senior Member 3539 Posts 3/14	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 9:09PM Ok What has Manwin/MindGeek done to "revolutionize" the industry besides buying companies? Don't say tube sites, because they didn't start those. In fact, some the ones they own were started by other entities. Hey before you answer, you might want to look the word, REVOLUTIONIZED, in the dictionary. I'm waiting. Click to expand "Revolutionize" (Merriam) transform, alter dramatically, shake up, turn upside down, restructure, reorganize, transmute, metamorphose " Thylmann's game was "monetizing Internet traffic." Simple concept. He created software called NATS, which enables users to determine which banner ads, links or recommendations a surfer used to reach a porn site on the Internet. If the surfer isn't just looking and becomes a paying customer, the site operator pays a commission. NATS makes it possible to manage this activity. It isn't much more than dry bookkeeping, just modified to suit the needs of the porn industry. "His path to success began when Internet connections became fast enough to smoothly transmit videos, not just photos. The fury he encounters in Internet forums today is partly attributable to the fact that he, as the owner of Pornhub and YouPorn, helped create a dog-eat-dog environment in which many businesses in the industry could no longer compete. "His ad-funded sites distributed pornographic material around the world, providing free access to photos and videos. They were uploaded by users who said to themselves: If we keep the stuff that's stored on our computers to ourselves, we'll remain small. But if we feed it to a worldwide community, we'll be big. And eventually we'll be so big that no regulatory authority in the world will be able to do anything about us. As a result of this approach, huge numbers of bootleg videos are now circulating on these websites. The flood of free images has led to the bankruptcy of many pornography businesses." -Der Spiegel He changed the game. Transformed the industry. Fees we pay performers have dropped drastically. Don't tell me he didn't shake things up! He created the end of the paying customer. Even the big production houses are seeing 20% declines in revenue. His sites generate 16 billion hits per month. BTW, you don't have to "start" something in order to revolutionize it. Craig Newmark wasn't the first to put classified advertisements on the Internet. That doesn't take away the fact that he revolutionized more of society than one wishes to imagine. [Link]

Blue Agave Deactivated User 108 Posts 3/14	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 11:12PM What is Madison Ivy saying about all of this? [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18631 Posts 4/08	Posted - Mar 23 2014 : 11:39PM ^ During the Costa Rica trip she just posted a bunch of pics of how much she was enjoying herself. To be fair it's possible that she didn't know about the controversy until she got back. As it says in the article above, the winners weren't announced until the girls were already on the trip. She was probably just told that she won and to get on the plane. So when she came back on Mar 15, she tweeted the following: @MsVeracruzXXX I <3 u and I feel terrible 4 all u have gone through. You're such a sweet & amazing girl! And Vanessa seemed to take that as genuine, replying: @Madison420Ivy Thank you Love Like I said Before it's unfair to all of us including @XNicoleAnistonX -To have to deal with this. 💋❤️ [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10078 Posts 3/10	Posted - Mar 24 2014 : 7:34PM It's like how companies pay $3 million+ for a 30 second ad during the Superbowl. Because they know a LOT of people are going to see it. Click to expand I completely agree with everything you wrote but is it possible that there is a difference between the traffic a commercial will engender during a sporting event like the superbowl and the traffic generated by banners on tube sites? The people watching the superbowl are aware that the commercials are a necessary evil so that they can view the SB for free since the money generated by the commercials is what pays for the broadcast rights but almost every person using a tube site does it because he did not want to pay for it in the first place. Why would anyone using sites that offer free porn give a rats ass that the banner will bring him to the pay site from which the video was taken? I know that normally more traffic equals more profit but I don' think this rule can be used in conjecture with tube and torrent sites. The perfect example is the state of the porn industry. If tube and torrents sites were such great engines of wealth than we wouldn't have the dying porn industry that we currently have. [Link]
Jacco All-Star Member "liable to deprave and corrupt" 2673 Posts 5/04	Posted - Mar 24 2014 : 8:37PM ^Tube and torrent sites are only a great source of wealth if you steal all the content. Do you really believe that all the content on tubesites was uploaded by users? Jacco [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18631 Posts 4/08	Posted - Mar 24 2014 : 8:38PM ^^ Yeah that's why I pointed out all the other ads they have on tube sites. Very likely not a lot of money is being filtered into the paid sites via tube site ads (though surely a little bit is). But what about dating sites? Or computers? Or whatever else? Just because someone isn't paying for porn, it doesn't mean they don't pay for anything. Edited by - killbillvol69 on 3/24/2014 8:38:44 PM [Link]
Idlewild66 Deactivated User 721 Posts 12/11	Posted - Mar 24 2014 : 8:55PM Jacco wrote: ^Tube and torrent sites are only a great source of wealth if you steal all the content. Do you really believe that all the content on tubesites was uploaded by users? Jacco Click to expand Yes. The dirty little secret with warez/tubesites/torrents/file-hosting, is they PAY you to upload. THEY PAY YOU!! [Link]
Jacco All-Star Member "liable to deprave and corrupt" 2673 Posts 5/04	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 6:23AM ^They don't pay you, they pay a bunch of people in a low wage country to "upload" the majority of the content. Sure, they have affiliate programs and little bonuses for uploaders, but in the end the tubesites are crooks and Manwin is the biggest crook of them all. Jacco [Link]
Idlewild66 Deactivated User 721 Posts 12/11	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 9:27AM Jacco wrote: ^They don't pay you, they pay a bunch of people in a low wage country to "upload" the majority of the content. Sure, they have affiliate programs and little bonuses for uploaders, but in the end the tubesites are crooks and Manwin is the biggest crook of them all. Jacco Click to expand Yes they do. [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 10:39AM Idlewild66 wrote: Goldstein wrote: ^ A few well-written complaints to the pertinent state's attorney general, regarding mistreatment and cheating of paying customers, would get Twisty's attention right quick. Click to expand Umm, I'd be pissed if my state's attorney general got involved in this. priorities? Click to expand It's not that the state attorney general actually does something (at least not based on one complaint). Rather, it is knowing that your company is generating complaints to the AG that typically encourages companies to clean-up their acts. In the old days, when you made a complaint to a company and threatened to contact the AG over the matter, most companies would find some way to work things out with you -- as they did not want anything to do with AG complaints. In a "red state," for example, I'd think adult companies would really not want to roll the dice, particularly during an election year. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10078 Posts 3/10	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 9:09PM Just because someone isn't paying for porn, it doesn't mean they don't pay for anything. Edited by - killbillvol69 on 3/24/2014 8:38:44 PM Click to expand Maybe but my point is that since most of the people using tube sites are only doing it because they don't have to pay for porn then they are probably not the type of people who will spend any money on the stuff offered by those banners. My thinking may be wrong but I believe that most regular customers of tube sites are thieves and thieves by default don't make for good customers. [Link]

whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Mar 25 2014 : 9:37PM ^ Your thinking is wrong. Advertising is/can be effective even if you don't immediately buy the product, solely because it puts the product in your mind, which makes you more likely to buy it down the line. The people that pay for ads on tube sites know that most of the people who see the ad won't click on it, but at least they'll have heard of the company, which is an important step. Especially when it comes to things like cam sites and adult dating sites, who are arguably the most likely companies to invest in that advertising. [Link]