For a start companies like VIVID and PRIVATE who barely get mentioned here still sell many more DVDs that the small gonzo studios that get talked about and reviewed all the time.

There is porn around that is quite different.

I'd recommend DVDs from UK studio Viv Thomas, they are well known for their lesbian stuff mostly but have done two of the best B/G movies I've seen in many years one is "Sex Wives and Videotape" the other one is "The Sex Analyst".

Edited by - Joey Starr on 1/10/2004 5:57:08 AM

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I despise features so bad i get ill, but on the other hand gonzo has become so predictable and extreme that most of it I'm not that interested in. There's some good stuff shot just for the Net like Netvideogirls and Socal Coed but alot of crap too.

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A male equivalent of a Jenna Jamison? I think Private is having a hard time trying to find a younger woman who is her equivalent, and doesn't have breast implants.

Kitty Kat, your comment about wanting the ideal actor to put the woman's pleasure as an utmost concern: Mark Davis fits the bill pretty close, and yet he gets more negative comments from male porn fans on this message board, than just about any other actor. And this is so, even though porn actresses have posted that they like working with him, and porn directors have said that girls request to work with him, more than just about any other actor, and even with Davis having done some rough sex stuff. It's almost as if the more care a male actor takes with the woman/women in a scene, the more people will post here that they don't like it. There have been also been a number of posts about Rocco going too "soft" compared to his raunchier films from a few years back.

Unfortunately, I suppose porn studios read these comments, and it has the predictable effect, of encouraging them to go to more and more extreme stuff, whether this is what everyone wants or not.

A good illustration of even male porn fans not being impressed with gonzo films was the Howard Stern show a few weeks back, where Brigitte Kerkove and Britney Foster were on promoting their new gonzo films for Fusxion. Howard and his three buddies, all men in their 30's and 40's, all men who like porn and are willing to spend money to watch it, were unanimous in their opinions: They did not like the two films they saw from the woman.

The men didn't go for the spitting, the slapping, the hair pulling, and the over-emphasis on anal sex and circus acts. Even Foster's all girl video had this stuff. One man asked her if she was purposely trying to make the actresses look ugly on film? And why did the actresses have to wear those horrible day-glo fishnets?

Both directors' only answer was the same: this stuff is what the fans say they want. Howard asked, "What fans?" Bridgette said, "the fans who tell us what they want." I can guess that she meant the fans from this message board and others like it, and people who write into her website.

Now, I have nothing against these kind of films myself. But, studios are missing out on some opportunities to attract other porn fans, instead of catering to the loudest ones who post on message boards about all their needs and wants.

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I love reading your post. We are guilty of rough sex here at Platinum Pictures Inc. too, I guess the difference is that we do make other kinds of projects too.

Here is the danger of a small company doing what you suggest. Our customer base got used to our rough sex "Lorenzo Smut Stories", so when we came out with a movie called "The Policy" with a storyline that portrayed sex with a couple, they were not reedy for it. and sales immediately dropped.

We depend on the sales from our last movie to make the next movie. Most companies aren't willing to take that risk (even the one's who could afford too).

I will say, "The Policy" is now doing a little better because it took time for the softer (or customers that like a bit more intimacy) to tell others who like the same about our stuff.

Once again, I love reading your thoughts and post.

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I dislike Marc's penchant for choking for several reasons. First of all it's quite dangerous, and some idiot is going to watch Marc and try that himself on a girl and wind up hurting her (and/or winding up charged with battery). But the other problem is that I can't fantasize to it - I just don't have an impulse to grab a girl's throat when getting intimate (never mind that were I to try it I'd probably wind up missing a few vital organs). Strangulation just doesn't seem erotic to me.

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Anything like face slapping, rough treatment or humiliation of a woman is a total turn-off for me, and I would never watch the movie again.

Anything that looks non-consensual, like simulated rape or a woman forced to do something she dislikes - ditto. It just ruins the mood in my case.

Any time the woman in the movie looks like she is not having fun, or is bored or uncomfortable - sorry - for me, it's just not erotic.

I fully realize that there are thousands who would disagree with me. I respect their right to view and enjoy their own fantasies. All I am saying here to the studios is that "this is the opinion of one fan who is telling you what he likes."

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I agree entirely with Licker on this.

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I was using Mark Davis as an example, not to pick on him at all. Yes, he does choking, but I believe he does this no more than numerous other actors, so I didn't mean to imply he is the worse practitioner of this out there. Not that I like it, I don't. As for his appearance - to tell you the truth, it doesn't bother me one bit, and I can see it doesn't bother the actresses he's paired with, so it's all fine with me. Actually, I like his look, plus I've been with guys who've had his type of build, and they're ever so comfy to snuggle up to in bed.

In regards to Rocco, I prefer his more recent films, but as I mentioned, there are those who are quite vocal about wanting the rougher side of him, 24/7, in their Rocco porn consumption. These Rocco fans just do not want to see another facet to this performer. The problem is that people from Evil Angel read this website, and I bet anything that the feedback makes its way over to Mr. Siffredi one way or another, since he can't afford to ignore sales in the US.

Yes, I heartily agree about the faulty feedback loop that has come into existence through message boards like this (and this one is tame compared to some of the postings over on RAME). Those who post the loudest and most often, will get their wishes granted by somebody. And, frankly, it's easier to give fans stuff that is act-driven, such as slapping, gaping, double penetrations, etc. You just hire the right people, and tell them to do it.

On the other hand, delivering a porno film that gives intense performances where the people look like they want to be with each other, is a lot more difficult to deliver, and deliver consistently. Occasionally, unintentionally, it happens, or at least it can happen in one or two scenes out of 5 in a gonzo film.

I have no idea how people can get off of the feedback merry-go-round. Well, maybe some porn insiders will read this thread and think about all the postings. Maybe that's a start.

P.S. For those of you outside the US, Howard Stern is a radio talk show host, from New York, who puts on a morning show that is also televised late at night. He's one of those obnoxious "shock jocks", who uses a lot of crude humor, makes fun of people, etc. He and his buddies, at least on air, are definitely down in the gutter, and naturally, a lot of people listen to him. That's the point I'm trying to make with his example - if someone like him doesn't like an all-too-typical gonzo film, there's something wrong.

Someone (maybe here on ADT) posted that Stern doesn't have the right raincoater mentality to enjoy porn . What a rationalization ! You know what, I bet there are more people like Stern and his buddies out there, than raincoaters, anyday.

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Sex is about reciprocity. The way porn has evolved, it has become more and more one-sided (not that it was ever really reciprocal). And people are making their sexual education with that. Lets face it, even if porn is illegal to minors, we know they're gonna come across it at some point. So young guys are basically getting told that you have to force a girl into a BJ and choke her while pounding her ass violently (without lube or condom most of the time). It's just as bad with girls, who are learning that they should enjoy taking this. Then, you'll get genrteation after genration of people who'll go into sexual relationships wondering if they're "normal" for not liking this stuff.

And I'll repeat myself form another thread but I think the more harcore porn gets, the more it is a cop out for its lack of sexual creativity and intensity. Instead of having creative positions with heat between partners, you try to satisfy a bored audience by getting in more shock value stuff like gapings and DAPs.

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1) There is a terrible dichotomy in porn today between what we call features and the all-sex gonzo stuff. This is partly the fault of cable, which has forced producers to shoot features in a format and style that would be applicable to the cable companies, and easy to edit into soft and hard versions. There is no rule that says that features cannot have intensive, continuous hardcore action. And while there is an assumption that features will have a narrative structure of some sort, that structure does not have to even include "story" within it. The only problem is, you could never make such features "cable-ready." And given the cost of making a feature, it is foolish to go to all the trouble if all you will get out of it at the end of the process is 5,000 unit sales, or thereabouts. Fashionitas was a recent example of what could be done with feature porn, but hardly any other company in the industry could afford to make a film like that, and afford to lose money if it didn't sell particularly well (which it has). The market in porn today is so glutted with product, that nobody is going to invest a lot of money in any one project, unless they have something like the cable business to fall back on. The result of this has been the slow death of the creative porn feature. (This is apart from the technical issues, where even someone with a good idea will often make a mess of it because nobody in the current state of the industry remembers how to choreograph and shoot feature hardcore erotically)

2) The porno market, especially in the US, is sorely lacking in both quality male and female talent at the moment. This is not to say that there aren't a lot of cute girls and decent studs in the industry. But honestly, how many girls or studs are there working in US porn right now that could carry the audience for a full two hours IF they were the only talent in the movie? How many could move 10,000 units as the only talent in the movie? Very few, I would think, at least in the gonzo format.

3) Contemporary all-sex and gonzo films suffer from a lot of problems right now. One is repetition, of course. But a bigger issue for me is the rigid sexual power structure within the gonzo style; I could summarize this briefly as

MALE OWNER/MASTER------------FEMALE SLAVE/ROBOT

Now I have nothing against "who's the master, who's the slave" games in sex--I quite enjoy them, actually. But a little variety would be welcome. To me, the ideal gonzo video would involve real or fantasy segments where one special person or couple explores a range of sexual customs not easy included in commercial or feature porn. And the fact is, that although we like to chat up how "extreme" or "hardcore" today's gonzo porn is, it really operates in the narrowest of sexual spaces compared to what is possible. If anything, American producers today are scared to death of most anything that resembles conflict, context, emotional catharsis, or (particularly) joy in sexual play. These things will bring the censor faster than all the gagging videos in the world.

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These post give me hope that producers like myself will be able to have creative non-traditional expressions sell to a receptive audience.

I will be showing my boss all of these post Monday and hold a meeting about our role (Platinum Pictures Inc.) in continuing to offer something different in the market place.

Thank you Lazerus, Cayuse and the others. You make me proud to be a part of this industry!

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As Renee and others have mentioned , Mark Davis has a better connection with his co-stars than many of his male competitors . For that reason I'm willing to overlook his less than perfect physical condition , and still enjoy the scenes he performs in . Besides , he's my alter ego onscreen . A British guy getting the job done - rule Britannia ! How much better it would be though if he was back in his early 90's shape . ( wish I was too ! )

Kitty-Kat I don't think that a powerful new male star will make any difference in the short term to the way porn is produced in America . I get the feeling that male stars these days ( and possibly in the past too ) are given a checklist of the *acts* the director wants to see , before the camera rolls . Under these conditions it's extremely difficult for any performer , no matter how handsome , suave or dynamic , to break the mould and reinvent the porno industry . Infact I get the impression that some of the better and well established men we have now are unable to fully express themselves onscreen . Example : Steve Holmes tenderly kissing the cum covered face of Laura Angel at the end of Dangerous Woman . He clearly wanted to do this very badly , and yet I've not seen him finish a scene off like this again ( he may have but I've probably missed it ). Could it be that he's been asked not to , so as not to upset the perceived wishes of *the fans* ?

Finally , I totally agree with everything that Lazerus posted . Could the straight-jacket rules of cable company broadcasting someday be broken ? Is it possible that the distortion to US feature porn that these rules have created , and the subsequent hole in which gonzo/all sex has flourished could one day be narrowed ? I certainly hope so . This isn't a slam against gonzo , but it does unfortunately offer higher rewards for far less effort . The current situation allows some very meagre talent to not only endure but also flourish . In a smaller marketplace the survival of the fittest might have a spring cleaning effect on these so called directors .

Finally , finally ! If anyone is looking for fun gonzo with a more equal emphasis on male and female pleasure I'd recommend Seymore Butts . Mission to Uranus was in my DVD player just last night , and it was so interesting to see pleasure on the faces of the women for a change . It threw the other gonzo that I've recently been watching into stark relief . There was none of that ' man with a blow-up doll ' effect that most of American gonzo appears to have degenerated into . As a side note , I seem to have fallen in love with Alisha Klass ! Wow , she's a true exhibitionist in a field of wanabees . For any women who may be interested , there's a fantastic scene featuring Hakan Serbes . Not only is he very good looking , but he shows a real interest in the feelings of his partners . Backing off when it's too much and going for it when the situation dictates . Gotta love his grin when he realises that the girl under him is getting off . :)

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As for companies searching for new markets the biggest factor is setting the boxcovers and content apart from the rest. For example: Say company X generally shoots gonzo but releases a "couples film." The couples film must clearly state so on the box and the box must be different from the regular gonzo. Private does quite well with this method. They shoot several different product lines and perspectively keep them "seperated" to avoid confusion for consumers. The best thing Private does is deliver good sex on a regular basis. I am quite surprised that nobody follows Private's basic marketing concepts.

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I want to clarify, that when I say I like some intensity in the scenes I watch, I'm not talking about features - I don't watch these, 'cause I can't stand the overly made-up women, the lousy dialogue, the bad acting, etc. I only watch gonzo, so there's no question about what kind of films I'm talking about.

Unbelievably, I have found two scenes (out of about ~100 I've watched over the past couple of months) where the woman took some of the control of the sex action. The first was Sandra Romain with Manuel Ferrara in PXP's Ultimate Asses 2. She gives him a workout, and even slaps him playfully when he's going too slow for her.

The second one was Vicky Vette with Mark Wood in Zero Tol's Wet Dreams Cum True. She's the one who sets the pace in the scene, and she's vocal about what she wants, and when she wants it. The funny thing is the boxcover on the back describes their scene thus: A sex-crazed candy-striper serves her tender rump to an anal addict with a sweet tooth and a hard-on.

This copy makes it sound like he's in total control, and she's serving herself up to him for whatever he wants. In reality, there is also vaginal sex in the scene, and she is the one who initiates the anal sex. Goes to show how much the studios, even an innovative one like Zero Tolerance, shy away from upsetting the power imbalance, which they perceive porn fans want to see reinforced over and over again.

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You should check out movies where women fuck men with strap ons, they are definitely in control!

Edited by - Joey Starr on 1/12/2004 7:15:04 AM

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Could you tell me whar were some successful releases and top stars at Platinum?

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Our two best selling videos are FACE winner of "Black Video Illustrated Editor's Choice Award." and Lorenzo's Smut Stories a hardcore ghetto project.

Another "Black Video Illustrated Editors Choice Award" pick was our Platinum Stories one "The Policy".

Although we have a list of major stars we are attempting to work with (both female and male) We have made the conscious decision to create new stars. Ms. Sultry Foxx is one of our stars. Sultry has been featured in Both Black Tail Magazine and Nasty Magazine.

Lorenzo Loretto is our main male star and he has an ever increasing cult following. Lorenzo was also spoke of in the same Black Video Illustrated article as "The Policy". See the end of the article

We do not have wide distribution is stores at this time. We can be found in mostly the east coast stores. Or the best way to get our stuff is directly from our web site. Rcently we have made the decision to focus our attention on the mail order, web order, web payperview markets.

Breaking into wide distribution and playing the major studio role is a very difficult, expensive game. At this time we are content to be an alterative to the others.

Thank you for asking.

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Steve

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