Hi there. I've been reading this forum for a few days now so thought I'd wade in with my first post. Terrific forum and great to see so many people from the porn industry getting involved and giving their views. Anyway, I'm from the UK and a huge fan of quality porn. I see the bulk of posters here are from the US and the bulk of talk centres around US porn, which is useful for me as I know less about US porn than European porn. So I'm throwing in the age old question....which is better? I have to say that having viewed pretty large quantities of both for a good few years now I much favour European porn. There's something a bit more natural and flowing about it and I find it more wanton and voyeuristic, whereas a lot of US porn I find to be very staged, generic and quite often nasty and unpleasant, even misogynistic. For sure, the 2 stables I find myself going back to most repeatedly would be Christoph Clark and Private, in that order. Christoph is the king for me. I was surprised to see a thread about the Evil Angel label on here where he was very much a footnote alongside people like John Leslie and Jules Jordan. Pah! There's more heat, energy and out-and-out cock-throbbing horn in one of Christoph's intros than a ton of Leslie/Jordan scenes. I haven't seen anyone so consistently capture such stunning girls who love what they do and treat them with that enthusiastic eye-popping respect (they look so comfortable in front of his lens....a massive talent and turn-on), whilst still delivering the ultra-hard goods. I've rarely seen a bad Christoph feature and the Euro Hardball series I would say is pound-for-pound the hardest, horniest and best porn I have ever seen. Private are consistently reliable in bringing stunning European girls with an outstanding appetite for sex. At times they can be a bit generic (blowjob > vag > anal > cumshot) but in some ways they're the victims of their own success. A great wide-ranging label, in truth, that makes up nearly 50% of my collection I would think, such is the quantity and quality of their output. I could make a whole thread about Rocco Siffredi and probably will at some point - suffice to say, I think he's been terrible since about 2001....all massive self-indulgence and empty "hardcore" promises (some of the softest stuff I've bought lately has been his....been genuinely cheated on occasion) but the pre-2000 stuff (before he decided he needed to "push the envelope" and forgot what he was good at) was consistently great, again up there with my all-time faves. OK yes so I have a bit of a problem with US porn, I have to say. I find there is a different attitude to sex displayed by most of the male performers. The best European males tend to have this "excited schoolboy" thing and normally clearly enjoy what they do without dominating a scene too much. It's that thing of the woman initiating the sex and the guy greedily accepting, without making too much fuss. That's the style that gets me off. It's an everyday fantasy thing. The girl at the bus stop....in the office....at the pub (bar if you're American) "What if she seduced me and I could do exactly what I wanted?" I think too many US male performers approach it from the exact opposite angle and think the scenes are about them. "OK we're here to shoot some porn....which sluts are we fucking today?" etc., which removes the fantasy element and reminds me that I'm watching porn. Quite defeatist. Also one of my biggest turn-offs is throat-grabbing (and general manhandling of women), which just seems standard in US porn as far as I can make out. It's creeping into Euro porn as well, annoyingly. I don't like that kind of aggression. Is fucking a beautiful woman not enough, one has to wonder? And what's with that bizarre thing of a guy holding a girl's head when she's sucking him off or when he's about to do the cumshot?! Awful. She's not going anywhere, I don't think. I want to get the idea that the girl is doing it because she likes it (and is ultimately in control of it) rather than being under any coercion or some guy's plaything to abuse. Again, it's a "know your place porn guys" thing in my eyes. You're not the attraction. Concentrate on your sex game and just get on with it. Also whilst I'm not big on storylines I do find that European porn does a better job of suspending my disbelief and making me forget - in as much as it can - that I'm watching porn. That's not easy and it's what I'm looking for, in the main. US porn - by and large - has that more low-budget DIY feel of girl intro > standard sex. Sometimes I like that and it's not per se a non-starter but it's not normally the best porn for me. It's hard to make that style of porn become super-hot, although it can be done. Horses for courses, I guess. I do find though that I'm starting to look more and more at US porn of late, which I haven't done for a few years. I'm thinking the US female pool of porn stars I haven't really tapped into is more appealing than seeing the same European girls again and again. Also I think the master Christoph has fallen off a little with his latest Euro Domination and Angel Perverse series. The former is a bit too fetish wear-based for me (well, the title says it all so fair enough) and the scenes in the latter I'm finding a bit too long - he's substituting length for heat, I think. Also the male stars aren't quite up to the level of his earlier stuff. I think the formerly great David Perry is going through the motions a tad now and I'm not keen on his current "go to" guy Omar Galanti, who has the showboating US style down too well for me. I guess even the very best fall off eventually and I'm not writing Christoph off just yet, for sure. But I'm spreading my horizons so enjoying reading this forum for pointers these last few days. OK let me be a bit more positive about US porn and say that I like the 3rd Degree label. Probably no surprise that they use a lot of European girls but still, whoever's in them their DVDs tend to be solid. And Lauren Phoenix is by far and away one of the best porn stars I've ever seen. Unbelievable performer. I kinda wish she'd cross the Atlantic one time and get taken on by some of the better Euro studs but I guess the flights always go the other way, which is fair enough. In fact, I'm not knocking the US girls one bit as whilst I absolutely despise breast implants (another reason for me staying away from US porn back in the day and to some extent now) there are some superb girls in US porn and I'm by no means any authority on them anyway. OK I'll say one thing. I tend to find that Euro girls have that sultry oozing confidence thing and a lot of US girls are too giggly and sickly sweet but that's a bit of a generalisation. Phoenix and Gauge buck that trend, to name just 2 I like. So....any thoughts on the above? Sorry to be a bit negative and bits of that probably come across as a rant at times. It's a bit long as well, isn't it? Oh well. I guess we all have our opinions on porn as paying consumers and it can only be good if these views are shared honestly etc. Also in general how much Euro porn do you guys consume? I suppose I have this narrow-minded view that American porn consumers are starved of the Euro stuff by terrified US porn moguls intercepting it at US Customs and that if they could get hold of it they'd turn away from the US stuff in droves. But that's a bit of a personal opinion, I guess. I'll keep an eye on this topic, for sure. Cheers for reading if you stayed with it.
I'm from the UK too bud. Have to say I watch almost exclusively US material because they have the girls I love. That's not to say all the girls are from the US though, you'll also find most of them don't have implants, its gone out of fashion now imo. If I was to think why US beats euro this would be it, **Brianna Love**, Bobbi Star, Rebeca Linares, Sasha Grey, Stoya, Sophie Dee (UK girl),Jenna Haze, Charlotte Stokely, Missey Stone, Lexi Belle, Lindsay Meadows and a whole load more.I suggest you take a look at the girls I listed cos they are HOT. Having said that Killergram who have a rep who posts on here, are beginning to seriously interest me with some home grown talent!
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 6 2008 : 4:08PM
Cheers Bobcat. Lots of new names to me there, will be sure to check those out. Think Ms Linares is Euro though? Bit of a Private staple. Not a huge Jenna Haze fan. Like her enthusiasm but a bit too "cheerleader" for me. Yeah would be great to see more UK girls in porn, eh? Always loved Alicia Rhodes, Angel Long and Ashley Long, although sadly I never saw the latter in a scene I thought did her real justice. There's a UK girl Paige Ashley in Christoph's Dressed To Fuck 2 (think it's no 2) who delivers a sizzling scene. Not seen anything of her since, though.
As long as one is willing to navigate foreign language websites (not too hard when all you're doing is buying porn) there's very little to stop anybody in the USA from buying all the European porn their heart desires. I'm in the USA. I have a large collection of European titles to go along with my large collection of American titles. As I've said before, Sturgeon's law applies equally to porn on both sides of the Atlantic, so the idea that one side's porn is better than the other is just a myth. Fortunately for me, I don't have to take sides. I can enjoy the women I enjoy wherever they come from; and it's the women, not the directors, that drive my purchasing decisions.
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 6 2008 : 4:19PM
Ah yeah I was being a bit facetious with the Customs thing, of course. ;) Re: your 2nd point - do you not agree though that there does tend to be a difference in style between the 2? I think it's pretty marked personally. The Voyeur series would be the US porn that I think most closely resembles Euro porn but I find it a bit tame in relation to the best Euro stuff. I guess the key word for US porn would be "gonzo". You don't get that style so much in Europe, although it is on the increase a bit. I think the point I'm making is it's a bit daft to say there's absolutely no distinction between US and Euro porn. Give or take the odd blurring of the edges (and obvious actor/actress overlap), of course there is.
Have to agree with you about Christoph Clark. I started watching his stuff back right around the time he released the original Euro Angels 2 and was hooked because the girls were just so beautiful and he did nasty anal just the way I wanted to see it. I still watch the old Euro Angels tapes I have sometimes and still get off to it. As far as what's better now? Well, I think there's good stuff made on both sides but good American stuff seems to be harder to find than good European stuff. I have to confess I usually like the Euro girls better. Not just their looks but they do seem less inhibited in some ways. There is clearly a difference. Not to say one is necessarily better than the other. Edited by - randomprecision on 5/6/2008 4:32:27 PM
I think the idea that there is 'a style' to porn on either side of the Atlantic won't hold water. European porn isn't just Rocco and Christoph, you know. You've got the likes of SG Video, Bemefi and Telsev, just to name a few. Here we've got everything from Red Light to Suze Randall.
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 6 2008 : 4:41PM
Great stuff RP. Yeah Christoph just makes porn exactly how I like it. He has such respect for the girls and seems to make every film as though it's his first. Real wide-eyed excitement/reverence. Literally worships the girls and doesn't take what he's doing for granted. I think the Euro Hardball episode Ass Gangsters was the first of his I ever saw. The first scene in that is brutal. A bit too much, really. The rest had my eyes popping out, though. Cassandra Wild and Stephanie Steel in that one! Just volcanic. I think my fave is EH Analholics but there's not much between any of his from that period. Any thoughts on his more recent stuff? Seen any of the Euro Domination/Angel Perverse/Dressed To Fuck DVDs? The latter series is the pick I'd say.
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 6 2008 : 4:59PM
And just throwing in an interesting angle to the topic....I've made mention of the fact that a lot of European girls/guys come over to the States for porn careers but are there any examples (specifically of girls) of porn stars going the other way? I guess the money and industry connections tend to be a bit better in the States? I know a lot of female stars populate this forum so I'd love to know if any US girls have been tempted or could be tempted to go over to Europe - even briefly - to make porn and capitalise on seeing a different part of the world at the same time/take in another culture etc.? I have purely selfish interests here perhaps as I think my dream ticket right now would be seeing a whole bunch of the best new US girls in Euro porn. A Euro/US themed series of that nature I think would be just awesome and also kinda turn the tables a little bit. Any Euro porn moguls taking this on board? ;)
Have to say my viewing habits are totally governed by the girls, even if it means she is soft core I'd still want her movies, if she's a honey, Ms Carli Banks! As I've not seen much euro porn since the days of Silvia Saint in her prime, who are the current really hot euro babes that I should check out? Got a list for me Vulture?
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 6 2008 : 5:27PM
I'll have a go, for sure! Not sure all of these would class as "current" but pretty much within last 5 years or so max and most certainly still active as far as I'm aware. Natalli Di Angelo Victoria Blond Diana Gold Jennifer Dark Ellen Saint Sandra De Marco Melissa Black Lara Stevens Lucy Lee Vivienne La Roche Just 10 off the top of my head, really, and the top 2 being my 2 current fave new starlets. Hope that's of help. Can you (or anyone else) help out with any particular titles that kind of "mop up" some or all of the US stars you mentioned in a few easy sweeps?
Thanks for the list. If you look to the left of the page(set to all forums) and scroll down, to pornstar stuff, then click on pornstar photos you can search all the US stars movies and get links to pic's of them. I doubt there's one DVD that will cover all the big names and then it will also depend on what girls YOU like. If you are new to US girls I'd try and find a movie with Brianna Love, Bobbi Star and Sasha Grey in. These three are "all singing all dancing" hardcore Queens who won't disapoint with either there looks or perfomances. Edited by - bobcat on 5/6/2008 5:51:42 PM
I haven't really been watching a whole lot of porn past couple of years. I've been trying to explore the nooks and crannies of porn to see if there's anything a little more obscure that I may have missed. I watched and loved all of Christoph's Euro Angels series up until about #13. I didn't stop watching because I was bored though. I just wanted to check out other stuff and didn't have the money for everything I was interested in. The Hardball series (what of it I saw) was a little too fetish oriented for me. I'm sure it's great stuff if you're into that. I think I saw one of the recent Angel Perverse flicks. Still the same good old Christoph! I guess Euro Angels really stands out in my mind because I'd always wanted to see good gaping and Christoph was really the first one who ever did it right.
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 7 2008 : 2:31PM
Can't believe I left Simony Diamond and Julie Silver off my list. 2 absolute faves. There we go, I'll leave it at that round dozen.
I'd say my generic take goes like this: Europe: constant stream of stunning young beauties who will do anything with a plastic smile on their face. Best example: Sandra Kalerman US: constant stream of mes-a-mes girls who I can relate to culturally and seem more genuine on film but less willing to do things like anal right of the bat. Best example: Larisa Fox And don't me me counter examples I'm talking generalities in thousands of girls. This whole example could boil down to Private Casting versus More Dirty Debutantes.
Bang on. My heart sank when I saw the title of this thread - I think anyone who wishes to start another thread on this old chestnut should be freely allowed to do so on the sole condition that they make a sizeable donation to an appropriate charitable cause, such as DefendOurPorn.org.
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 8 2008 : 1:36PM
Fair enough. I still say that anyone who can't see the clear differences between the aesthetics of the 2 - and especially the male performers' attitude towards sex - must be crazy.
Well, see, that's the problem. You claim there's an aesthetic to European porn and we're scratching our heads wondering what the fuck you're talking about. The idea that SG Video, Manni Maneto, DBM, Marc Dorcel and Adrenalin have a common aesthetic is, well, laughable.
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 8 2008 : 3:24PM
Well, I only know Marc Dorcel from that list so not in a position to comment on that specific point. I've seen a good range of stuff though and explained my reasoning. I think it's a valid point. You don't have to agree but I'd like to hear some more specific, fleshed-out reasons as to why the 2 are more similar than I think. And I'm not keen on your use of "we're" there. Speak for yourself, Hardware. You're not the spokesman for every user on this forum.
Hey Vulture, in a recent thread on here I said something about Christoph Clark picking up where Rocco left off. I love his work. As far as being a "footnote" amongst the Evil Angel directors, all I can say is that the directors on Evil Angel's roster bring lots of different things to the table. The consistent thing is quality and talent, but different fans are going to like different directors. I love Christoph's series, new as well as old. I think he continues to get better and better.
Have to agree. For me Christoph is simply the best director out there. The girls always feel very comfortable shooting for him and many of them did their best performances on front of his camera (Jessica Fiorentino and Suzie Diamond to name two). He always respect the girls and really cares that they enjoy the scene. And you see that in the result. To Euro Domination: The first 3 are really fantastic, but then there was a break, not so much fetish anymore and more hard anal fucking. Don't get me wrong the others are also not bad, but not as good as the first 3. By the way Christoph stopped this series with no.9. His new series is called Nasty Intentions and it seems this is more a step back to the goold old Hardball series (simply the best movies in the history of porn). And by the way: British porn actress Paige Ashley is also in Angel Perverse 8 (IR with Joachim Kessef, if I remember right). Edited by - camaban on 5/8/2008 3:41:55 PM
In reverse order, the 'we' I'm speaking of is Gabriel and myself. I thought that the order of posts made that clear. My apologies for making an assumption; I do know better. Second, the only similarity I see is in the variety. Again, if I understand you correctly, you are claiming that there are distinct schools which define and differentiate American and European porn. Am I in error? If I am correct, then I have already made my argument clear and have given you examples to back my argument up. However, I will reiterate - there is no single school of European porn nor a single school of American porn. Both Europe and America have a wide variety of porn producers catering to extremely varied tastes. Is there overlap? Most certainly, to the point where Wicked can seamlessly offer Marc Dorcel titles repackaged for the American market. Are there differences? Only to the extent that European and American laws differ as to what the limits on pornography are, and this may be where the idea of European males treating their counterparts in a 'more natural' manner comes from. The more misogynistic stuff is just too hard to be freely advertised in the American market.
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 8 2008 : 4:38PM
OK I think you're missing the point. I'm not talking about marketing....what is and isn't available or repackaged in what way....just how the films look and feel. I'm intrigued by your last sentence though. I certainly don't see much if any misogyny in Euro porn and yet a lot - or at least what I consider to be borderline-misogyny - in US porn. So I'm not sure I see how that fits in. Anyway, if you want me to expand a tiny bit - and I know this is narrowing the debate and deliberately so - I'll say that if you take a random scene from a film made by Private/Dorcel/Clark/Puaka and show it to me I'm confident I'd immediately identify it as Euro. Similarly, take a random Third Degree/Red Light District/Zero Tolerance/Anabolic scene and I'm confident I'd know it was US in a flash. That's kind of my only point. And it has nothing to do with who is in the scenes either or even my familiarity with those brands. The look/feel/ambition of the film. Narrowing, yes, but those are very big hitters in the field of porn and I don't think it's unreasonable to draw on those examples.
Pardon the interuption... I was wondering if I could put my humble opinion into the flay. After reading everyones points, here are my thoughts from an American who has produced in Europe for over 10 years. I think The Vulture has a lot of validity in his statements. We are all products of our cultural heritage, accepted social norms, environment, worldly experiences etc. This certainly plays a role in a directors vision, be it a European or American director. I know it does for me. Yes there are differences as to how the porn industry operates on different sides of the pond, and it is reflected in the movies. But honestly I'll keep my opinion on the differences to myself. For me it is very easy to spot a Euro title from a US produced title. I do think good things come from both sides of the Atlantic. But they are different at least in my eyes and experiences. Tommy
Here's where we disagree - 1. that there is a European aesthetic. I say there are many European camps with their own aesthetics. To suggest that there's no difference between any of the directors working in Europe is as much nonsense as to suggest none exists between American directors. 2. That US porn is more misogynistic. I think that while you may find differences in the amount of misogynistic behavior within certain genres, the overall level is probably about the same. If you were to compare German porn to that made in the USA, I suspect that Germany would come out on top.
Look, all you are comparing is "the US porn with which I am familiar" with "the European porn with which I am familiar". For example, did you actually know that there is absolutely loads of pretty hateful rough sex style stuff on the German market right now? Apparently not. I've no need to do this argument yet again it's played out for me. Have fun discussing, but out of good manners if nothing else, please expand your horizons and view some different stuff before you start casting such aspersions either at me or Hardware or anyone else on here who disagrees with you. Otherwise you're only going to receive responses from posters who confirm your prejudices, and what's the point of a discussion on that basis? See ya.
Well, you pretty much can't make any blanket statement about anything and have it be absolutely true, can you? But I do think in general, it's easy to spot a difference between US and Euro porn. I can't exactly identify what it is but like someone else said, I could likely identify Euro porn or US porn very easily even if I didn't know who made it. Of course, the accents would be a dead giveaway. But there are other things. Generally Us porn is better for some things and Euro porn is better for some things. I do think that people are different in different parts of the world. They have different personalities and customs. Not uniformly, of course. But I'll put it this way. If I meet someone who isn't from my neck of the woods, I know it almost immediately.
[Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again
114 Posts 5/08
Posted - May 8 2008 : 7:33PM
That's valid though, isn't it?I think my only real point was a gripe at some aspects of US porn and to promote Euro porn a bit more on this forum. Also to try to find out what percentage of each people watch, but the thread moved away from that. I think you're being a tad precious.
It's fine that you've found European porn that you like and want to promote. What grates is when your posts suggest that's what you think European porn is. European porn is all over the map. While I encourage you to talk up those European directors and companies that you enjoy, please don't confuse the issue with broad statements which suggest you're casting your net over the entire European porn industry. How would you feel if Gabriel Nine came in here and started saying that US porn was crap based on a few companies whose product he objects to? You'd think 'What an idiot,' right? I have well over one hundred European titles in my collection. Even so, I've barely scratched the surface of European porn, so I would never claim that I could recognize Euro porn whenever I see it.
There are differences, but given the range of porn available on both continents only very vague generalisations can be made about the porn scene in the late 90s / early 21st century. FWIW, I think Rocco 'invented' the very intense, sweaty, full-on porn typified by the Animal Trainer series. I think that style was very influential Stateside and the legacy is still very apparent. The slapping, spitting, choking, etc. was not really something you saw in US porn until relatively recently. The fetish / kink thing was much more available in Europe due to legislative issues. So fisting, pissing, etc. could be considered quite mainstream in comparison to the USA. Online porn is changing that. I always sense something a bit grubbier / darker about the GGG-style in Europe compared to the US. There's more of a frat-boy element in the US ("Look at the crazy shit going on here!") that is less effective, IMO. Ditto amateur stuff from Germany and Italy, especially. It's just grungier somehow. Personally, although I like more 'intense' material, there's something that jars when, in US porn, scenes take place in "Someone's House". So much US gonzo just looks generic 'cos so much of it seems to take place in the same houses that seem to have been used for as long as I've been watching (nearly 2 decades!) There's good and bad from both sides. And way, way more bad than good.
"European porn" isnt existing as a monolithic term. I hate german porn, but I love the old danish and dutch classics from the 70s to the 90s. Starting in 2000, US porn "invaded" Europe. Sex Shops and Video stores were flooded with thousands of titles. They outcrowded national productions. Now quite a lot of dutch porn productions are looking like US porn productions. Some even have a NTSC Regional coding and a cover box in english language only. I totally lost my interest in this stuff. The biggest difference between Porn in Europe and the US is, that in Europe, porn companies are much more important as stars. Many collect every movie from a company, I too. If star xy played in a porn movie of a mediocre company, I dont collect it. Its the opposite in the USA. Stars rule. People ask for the latest movie with Audrey Hollander, company isnt so important. Only if the company has a very bad reputation. Or produces DVDs with an inferior picture quality. These differences in porn reflect the different societies. An individual-capitalistic society vs. a more developed social welfare society. Because of the so-called globalisation, also because of the pressure of the US government and the World Bank, this changed and now european porn reflects this change too. National companies are now targetting their movies to a "world market". So they have to abide US laws and they have to respect, that some things are taboo in US porn. Thats one of the main reasons, that porn has become so boring. 5-10 years into the future, US and porn from Europe will be almost identical.
As usual Caroline you are on the mark. Nothing more potent than a woman who understands porn. Japanese produce the best films these days, apart from a few producers I have given up on Western porn. Edited by - leatherdick on 5/10/2008 3:39:34 PM
I question whether the different emphasis reflects societal differences so much as it reflects regulatory differences and how those affect the markets. I doubt that there was much of a European market until the last few years. Rather, I suspect that there was a German market, a French market, an Italian market, etc. Compare that to the US, where 99% of porn is made in a single location and all of the companies use the same distributors to sell the same product into every single state. Those distributors don't have to fill out customs forms to ship to any of those states. In other words, the continental US represents one single market. Furthermore, very little differentiates one company from another. Do you want to see anal sex? No problem, dozens of companies put out anal movies. This is why it tends to be the performer who differentiates the product, not the company.
As a matter of fact, I do, though I don't claim to know it as well as an economist would. However, judging by the internet sites I visit, there still isn't the kind of commonality of porn distribution that I see in the USA. Back on the topic of studios versus stars, if you look at the EBI forums, you'll see that there are many threads following specific porn stars to go along with the threads on what Private and other companies are putting out next. Edited by - hardware on 5/11/2008 1:01:16 PM
Hardware wrote:But northern europe( Scandinavia, Netherlands, northern part of Belgium ) were a market, Italy/France were very similiar, Germany-Austria-Switzerland too. ( Only Norway and Switzerland dont belong to the European Union, so this refutes your theory ) Northern Europe had a higher female interest into porn, even if it differed extremely between the countries and the capitals vs. the rest of the country. Italy/France was a large market for features, where northern Europe was a market for loops, fun and sometimes self-ironic porn, teen porn ( because of more liberal age laws ). Feature movies werent very popular here. Porn was more respected and hadnt such a bad reputation as in Germany/Austria/Switzerland. Enthusiasm, fun, sex drive and exhibitionism were the main reasons for a lot of teen models in NL, to a lesser extent in DK, to perform and participate in a porn movie. Ive met some in the 90s, some had a very good financial background, because parents had a high income, they dont needed the money at all. Most werent "long runners", at first they only wanted to hold a copy of her own movie in her hands, but some had so much fun, that they wanted to repeat this experience. I dont want to generalize this, some needed the money for a drivers license or for her first own appartment. But in general, porn wasnt as money driven as in the USA. Because money wasnt so important in the 80s or 90s in northern Europe ( also Germany/Austria ), because the social systems were very developed. ( Some say over-developed ) Excluding girls/women with high debts, nobody needed to play in porn. Totally different, if I look at the weak and instable social system in the USA. Now almost all european governments cut back welfare and social spending. In the last 8 years, many women entered porn, because they need the money badly. German porn producers told me, the heavy cutting into the social system 3 years before, led to a flood of young women begging for a casting. These arent the best requirements for a good porn movie. Looking at some of the german porn covers, I only feel pity for some of the women. They endure it. Because of US regulations, but also because of cowardice and opportunism of dutch porn productions, dutch porn now is as boring as generic US porn. Excluding very few exceptions. European porn now is almost as unilateral as standard US porn. Yes, there are still some gems, like the scandinavian Heartcore porn movies, italian Salieri still has some superb movies, french Colmax too, but too many are producing stuff for the "world market", instead of producing porn movies with national roots. Denmark was once the leading porn producer in the world, now they are producing mostly category B Amateur stuff or US porn with danish actresses. Almost the same here in the NL. The same stuff again and again. Almost no dialogues, because they want to market it worldwide. And not a lot of people understand dutch or danish. Almost no one is paying for synchro anymore - with the exception of expensive feature movies.
Its no wonder, that most dutch girls/women nowadays watch only feature movies or no porn at all ! Why should they watch a "dutch porn" without dutch girls ? Without a story at all ? With no connections to the Netherlands ? Directed by an east-european director ? Playing in a studio that could be everywhere, in San Diego, Minsk or Prague ? Porn reflects the so-called "globalization" better as every other genre. ( or worse ). Globalization isnt the exact term, its an "USAmericanization".
[Link]
Tobin Deactivated User
450 Posts 11/07
Posted - May 11 2008 : 2:23PM
Exactly the way things should be.
[Link]
Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - May 11 2008 : 3:28PM
Quite right.Quite wrong. No reaction without a counter-reaction, and when people see their culture, traditions and values being partly eroded and partly overrun, the counter-reaction doesn't tend to be pleasant. To prove the point, just look at e.g. the resurgent nationalist and dogmatic sentiments in Russia. Its political implications aren't benign, and it's probably just a small taste of what's to come, the inevitable tidal wave. The greater the height, the harder the fall.
While there's no doubt that the US government wants the global market to work according to its own model (and advantage), the average American would probably tell you that globalization means everything is made in China.
Neglecting to mention that the companies are all American-owned... It doesn't matter where it's made, it's who makes it (or in this case, who designs it, and with which market in mind). Thus, globalization can still very much be considered Americanization.
Both genres (US & Euro porn) have their merits and shortcomings. Also if you are getting burned out on both there is Brazillian porn, which is highly underated & overlooked since Brazil produces incredible porn IMHO.
A few random thoughts for my two-cent investment......I have favored Euro-porn over the domestic stuff for years. Maybe be because I remember the time when the mere mention that a film was "Foreign" conjured up images of forbidden subjects and extreme acts that were beyond the comprehension (and legality) of the American mind. That being said I have enjoyed a deep admiration for Euro-flicks because they have always pressed the envelope by doing things to their actreses that would make most American starlets walk off the set in protest. You would be hard pressed to find the number of drop-dead beautiful women in American who would subject themselves to the degredation you find in Euro-flicks. Yet directors like Rocco and Christoph have filled my porn library with miles and miles of videotape of some of the world's most beautiful women doing unimaginable things. Speaking of Christoph Clarke, while he is truly underrated, I believe he has firmly stepped away from Rocco's shadow and has found a way to established himself as a leading director in his own right. Somehow he has found the magic formula of providing fetish/fantasy role play with pure unvarnished sex to develop his own unique signature style.
Heh! I find it fascinating how a lot people are so "unpatriotic" when it comes to porn viewing. The appeal of exotic, foreign lands must be irresistible. [:P)] I from the EU but I, too, watch American productions almost exclusively. Though I must agree that Brazilian porn is indeed pretty good, but of course, curvy Brazilian chicks make every porn look incredible.
Central European porn stars are at the top of any list as great babes. The products of DDF, SapphicErotica, Viv Thomas and so forth demonstrate just the tip of an iceberg of beauty. Sure all those are lesbian focused, but what is better than a beautiful woman? Two beautiful women! Take a look at EuroBabeIndex.com This is not to say there is not beautiful babes in other places, but as one that is an expat in Central Europe... Oh my gosh! They are everywhere here even in the most distant and smallest of villages. My theory is that its the mix of genetics from the Celts, the Illyrians, the Dacians, the Romans, the Slavs, the Germans, the Hungarian, the Turks, the Mongols, the Gypsies and other tribes and armies that settled, wandered and marched their way through. And then added to these people the mixture of genes from armies that came as conquerors and invaders like the Napoleonic troops, German armies and the Soviet occupying forces. Its a sad history like everywhere patriarchy has stuck its ugly dick, but it has left as a legacy a beautiful and healthy genetic mix. Most women who grew up before the privatization of education and health coverage are highly intelligent with multiple languages. Before the introduction of American fast food most women here were highly physically fit. The stereotype of the old woman with the babushka scarf in combat boots was typically a Cold War propaganda tool. Sadly like most of the world the next few generations will "mature" in an era that is modelled after the American corporate fascist system.
