^ I don't think it will change much in a short time , it is happening what I had foresee some years ago when the Credit Card companies in accordance to the power that be (guess who) begun to refuse payment to bestiality sites in Holland , then begun to hit japan companies who produced bestiality althought it was the 0.05% of their production , then begun to hit japan company who produced comics containing bestiality although it was a very minor produvction , then begun to hit regular porn if they they deem it obscene thus forcing all of them to cease all of such productions or to sell them throigh retailers. I said it was unwise to say the least to allow such companies to decide what anybody can buy with his own money ,as much as I hate bestiality , it was legal were it was produced , not to mention japanese comics where was no actual crime. But still there's a say here : when the wise points out the Moon the silly stares at his finger this is just the beginning , sooner or later they will refuse to pay anything they deem obscene
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 6/3/2012 11:03:35 AM
^I know that the general rumour is that Visa is dictating what can and can't be seen on sites like Brazzer but I don't know if I believe those rumours. Credit card companies aren't known for their moral stance so why start now. The amount of money most people owe CC companies is so high that there isn't a single government that could force them to do anything. Case in point is the interest rate they charge. How many government agencies have tried and failed to get them to drop their rates? These companies would gladly fuck their grandmother over if it meant making an extra buck and Brazzer must be a great customer. If Brazzer is taking scenes down then it's either because they want to do something with them or because they fear that since they are one of the biggest, if not the biggest company on the net that they run the chance of having a gungho DA out to make a name for him/herself by bringing charges against them.
^ are you kidding? they had forced and still are forcing entire sites and companies out of business all over the world in the last 5 years They begun with (then legal) bestiality sites , then companies , then comics , it is almost not known because most of them were bestiality or monster related sites , but now they're arguing about content It is a well established behavior on their part many of us wouldn't notice I don't buy bestiality , nor comics related , nor loli comics , nor rape related comics but still I believe this shouldn't be allowed
Sometimes life is goofier than a monkey on ether 12073 Posts 7/10
Posted - Jun 3 2012 : 9:03PM
^ So, "Brazzer sucks" = censorship is okay by me! What an enlightened position! So, If I think, hypothetically, that you suck then you would be okay with being banned from this board for just that reason?
Edited by - PornStarNamedBuckNaked on 6/3/2012 9:04:12 PM
People tell lies my friend. Some people like publicity. I don't like publicity. 674 Posts 5/11
Posted - Jun 3 2012 : 10:10PM
I hate censorship of adult content but I have had nothing but good experiences with Visa. Years ago, I was double billed by a travel company that resides overseas and Visa credited me back the money when the disreputable company ignored my requests for a credit. I recently returned an item to a Seller from AtomicMall.com and the Seller was a total Prick who ignored my request for a refund, refused to accept the returned item even when it was delivered to him. Visa credited me back the purchase price instantly, no question asked. About adult content sites being blocked by Visa, it has to do with ignorance and fear. The Age of Consent in many states in the USA is age 16 and age 17 so the cheerleader theme is completely legit in terms of abiding by the law. What you have is likely one or two morons at Visa with a substantial amount of power who acted impulsively without researching what is legal and what is illegal. Many of the executives pulling the strings are scared to death of legal action taken against them and throw in the towel when the sites are completely legit. If you ever run into someone who is dishonest when you used your Visa card for the transaction you will be glad you used Visa as you will be able to get your money back, just keep records of what took place.
The removal of the blatantly child-like portrayals, such as the pigtails and giggling will only make the scenes more enjoyable and less revolting. I support them on this particular issue.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 3 2012 : 11:30PM
And by regularly practicing a policy of censorship, it now sucks even more. When is the porn industry going to finally realize that nobody wants to see sanitized porn?
And how is it censorship? Brazzers can just drop Visa as a payment option for subscribers. It's a free country. I mean, don't get me wrong. I think Visa sucks too.
Manwin, which owns Brazzers, has more to do with santizing porn than you can even imagine. But that porn star abuse content was the dumbest shit ever. As far as I can tell, Visa hasn't asked Kink to alter its product. So maybe they just have better taste in their rough sex websites.
Yeah that's my thoughts too. There are plenty of ways to process money online; it seems crazy to resort to self-censorship when they could just find a creative workaround for handling the VISA payments.
If the board's administrators decided to ban me because THEY thought I sucked, then, yes, you could gloat because YOU think I suck. But what that has to do with Visa withdrawing its support of laughably cartoonish rough sex content, I don't know.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 12:47AM
Yes, if all this is true, they could drop Visa. But by doing so, they would also lose a lot of money from subscriptions. Unless I'm mistaken, Visa is the largest credit card company in the world. Losing Visa would also mean losing out on a shitload of money from potential subscribers who would mostly all be Visa cardholders. This is not to say that I agree with Manwin allowing Visa to control their content. But I do see how they would find the alternative to be an undesirable option.I agree with your first sentence, but disagree with everything else after that. While most of Brazzers does suck, the Pornstar Punishment site was the best site that Brazzers had going for it. If allowed to operate to its full potential, it would probably be the best porn site online. I also don't get the comparison to to Kink. They're not the same, and were never intended to be. One site focuses on consensual S&M, while the other site focuses on forced domination role-play. They're two completely different fetishes, and there's nothing wrong with either one. I don't care for Kink at all. But I did really enjoy the Brazzers punishment site back when it was good.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 12:50AM
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 12:53AM
I really don't give a shit about Visa's taste in porn. The point of the matter is that they have no business enforcing policies of censorship. If they have to power to censor one thing, then why not everything else?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 12:55AM
I agree with you about comics since that's purely fictional, but bestiality is not legal in Japan or Holland, and even if it was...would you be okay with companies trafficking in child porn just because it wasn't illegal? Visa has every right to not work with whoever they don't want to work with, especially when it involves the abuse of animals. In this particular case with Brazzers, it's not censorship for Visa to refuse to deal with a company because of their content. A credit card company exists to make money, first and foremost, why would they want to get mixed up with the kind of porn that can lead to prosecution? More importantly, Porn Star Punishment was a shitty porn site.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 12:58AM
You've never seen Bound Gangbangs have you? Many episodes are based on forced domination role-play.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 1:00AM
I always find it funny how people find censorship OK as long as it's something that they don't like that's being censored. Screw everybody else who does like it. I like to see how these same people react when these censorship policies start affecting things that they like to see, as they inevitably will. As usual, people are completely missing the bigger picture.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 1:06AM
The interwebs love to throw around the word censorship with little apparent understanding of what it actually is. It's not censorship if corporate America doesn't want to deal with pornographers. Cable companies carry porn because it makes them money, they don't have to carry any and all kinds of porn. Censorship is when someone prevents someone from producing content. Refusing to work with a company is not censorship. A bank isn't required to give a business loan to someone who wants to start up a pornography business, a landlord isn't required to rent out their warehouse to a pornography company, etc, etc. How is this any different? Just because it will significantly hurt Brazzers business isn't Visa's concern. If Brazzers gave shit about anything besides making money themselves they would stand up to Visa, but we know that's not going to happen and we know why that is as well.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 1:33AM
Exactly! What do you think this is? Interfering with a company's ability to generate revenue unless that company alters its content is tantamount to enforcing censorship.It shouldn't be Visa's concern at all. As I said, if Visa feels the need to concern itself enough in this instance, then why not in other instances? What happens when Visa decides to no longer bill for subscriptions to BDSM sites, or gangbang sites, or anal sites, etc.? Will that be OK, too?You're right that if Manwin had any principles, then it would stand up to Visa. But that doesn't excuse what Visa is doing. If our financial institutions keep exploiting us and ripping us off, does that make it right for them to keep doing it as long we never stand up to them? What Visa is doing is still wrong.
It's not censorship. If Brazzers feels strongly about presenting that content, they can find a way for patrons to pay for it beyond Visa. It's not like they are some piddly little website. They own fucking everything. They are big enough to make their own rules .. and tell Visa to fuck off. But they didn't, because they don't care about the porn fan. They care about the money.
Let me say something here: It's not just about Brazzers being afraid to drop Visa as a payment option. More to the point, there's a reason that this hasn't happened to Kink or Evil Angel or other sites that produce relatively similar content. I don't know if anyone remembers this, but when the head of Manwin gave that talk at AVN this past January, he talked about how he'd gotten a huge loan from Wall Street to go out and buy up whatever companies he felt he needed to. The bigger reason that Brazzers isn't going to stand up against this is because if they were to try to fight this and lose Visa as a payment option, there's a good chance they'd mess around and default on that loan and be in a world of trouble. So, basically, in his bid to take over the porn world, he's left himself in a position to be able to be completely pushed around by the credit card companies.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 2:50AM
BlackSix and Skronker are correct: it isn't censorship. And I wouldn't be surprised if the dropping of the pornstar punishment line actually had little or nothing to do with Visa, and a lot to do with a decision that concentrating on making cookie-cutter scenes of women with fake tits having passionless, mechanistic sex is a lot easier and more profitable than trying to eat Kink's lunch with ersatz BDSM crap.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 4 2012 : 3:51AM
^Whatever the reason, it's a bonehead move to get rid of the only remotely interesting site on the whole network. It also sucks that Brazzers is the only network that has even bothered to capitalize on the punishment fetish. It wouldn't be so bad if there were other active sites offering similar quality content. But when the only site offering this content disappears, it sucks even more for those of us who are fans of it. With as as much copy-catting as there is in the porn industry, it's just astonishing that no one else has decided to copy the fetish of punishment sex. It just goes to show that porn really is sanitized now.
That is not the point , as I said I don't like such things , the true point is that this had opened a door to someone who judges how you spend your money , for example is illegal to drink alchoolics in some islamic countries , what would you say if Visa was owned by such a Country and they refuse to pay your drinks or even your supermarket if they sell alcholics? If in a Country something is legal and those who buy it in such country are within their laws , who is entitled to forbid to buy? I Agree about pornstar punishment and ever more to facial abuse (Visa apparently is fine with it) but still this is not the point. Can't be the owner of a bank the one who decide how you live your life by refusing to pay your purchases
Or maybe the problem is that the fans of PSP-type porn are actually just a small - but extremely vocal - minority, that aren't worth catering to for other companies. This thread is rapidly reminding me of the "PSP scenes removed" thread at Brazzers' own forum last year...tens of pages, but seemingly 80+% of the posts were created by the same three or four posters who kept writing the same complaints over and over again.
^ You know when they run out of minorities then will be your turn I'm not a fan of that site nor of Brazzers for that matter, but I still want to be surrounded by tons of minorities , they will keep me safe , any loss is a hole in the wall that is protecting me , so I'm willing to loud out my protest for every threat to any minority no matter how small .
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 6/4/2012 8:45:40 AM
I loved PSP and I think the processors are being pussies, but if they are controlling content through their economic clout and legitimate contracts with Manwin, then I understand and I don not protest. Carry on. There's plenty more content out there.
It's also quite possible that Manwin wants to make Brazzer more cookie-cutter porn and take the content from PSP to open a new site/network that will compete with Kink. That would probably a good business moves on their part because I think that Kink is possibly one of the only companies capable of stealing cutomers from Manwin/Brazzer because they truly offer a great product that isn't available anywhere else.
A good friend lost their job of over 10 years because of Manwin, so I have no love fot them ... not that I love Visa either. I am strictly a debit card consumer.
I made no comment about the (alleged) payment processing issue. And having actually read the BZ forum thread last year, the handful of vocal PSP fans didn't actually seem to care all that much about that, either, they were just royally pissed about Brazzers taking away their beloved punishment porn no matter the reason. All I'm saying is that I found it interesting that the fans of that sub-genre were somehow even more vociferous and more convinced that everybody must be agreeing with them than even the anal/IR/natural-boobs obsessives ADT typically gets.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 5 2012 : 1:39AM
Internet forums are always that way. It is a mistake to base the popularity of a product on the activity of an Internet forum. For example, we know that millions of people watch porn all over the world. But going by your logic, we could deduce that hardly anyone watches porn based on the relatively small number of active participants that are here at ADT. I also go to IMDB sometimes. It's amazing how a major blockbuster movie that made hundreds of millions of dollars in ticket sales will only have about 25 people talking about it on the IMDB forum. So we can't go by that. Besides, Brazzers has so much as admitted that the Pornstar Punishment site was its most popular site that drew in the most subscriptions. So there's no argument about its popularity.The problem is that most of it sucks.Kink isn't for everybody. I don't like Kink. I always said that porn should have something that appeals to everyone. Just because Kink is a BDSM site doesn't mean that every other domination site should follow their formula. I always thought that the Brazzers site did it better.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jun 5 2012 : 2:43AM
When Amazon refuses to carry porn that doesn't prevent anyone from producing porn, it just prevents them from being distributed by Amazon. This is why before the arrival of VHS and mainstreaming of porn the industry had its own distribution, media and production networks. If Visa decided to not traffic with any kind of porn at all that would be within their rights and pornography would continue to exist. There was a recent attempt to use Kickstarter to support the production of The Opening of Misty Beethoven on blu-ray that was kiboshed by Kickstarter when they figured out that Misty was porn, that sucks but it's not censorship.
^ I don't think so, I agree for Amazon which is a seller , but can't agree about VISA or any other Credit Card company , the same concept of credit cards is that the card IS MONEY , the very moment they are able to decide what you can do with your money they are forcing you to live not the way YOU CHOOSE , but the way someone else judged proper , today porn, then alchool , then the whole Nevada (gambling and legal prostitution) then what , any seller who is atheist?
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Jun 5 2012 : 5:37PM
Oh please! They aren't decided what "You" can or can't do with "Your" money nor are they forcing you how to live, they are deciding what type of businesses they want to be involved with regarding the type of product said business sells. If you have a problem with Visa not wanting to do business with Brazzers, the solution is simple; Mastercard, AMEX, Discover, your Debit card, etc etc. What I find ironic is all the people who normally trash Brazzers for their business dealings are now defending Brazzers against Visa.
^ I'm not defending Brazzers against Visa I'm defending MYSELF against this shit , they aren't involved in any business no more than a bank clearing a check , it is money , what if your bank refuses to pay a check because they don't do business with whoever they say? What's next? You can buy from Visa sponsored or owned sites only? Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 6/5/2012 6:16:30 PM
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Jun 5 2012 : 8:17PM
Oh Please! If I interpreted everything correctly, the only issue in question is that Brazzers has content that depicts actresses dressed as minors having sex and/or consuming alcohol in a prelude to having said sex. Since that happens to be the only issue, I really think you're in the clear and don't have to defend yourself against anything. There's a term for your carrying on, it's know as being a drama queen. At no point in any of the posts did it say Visa has an issue with Brazzers AND Laurie Cameron Fan. Do you even belong to Brazzers and if so, do you use your Visa?
I wasn't saying you should, or that any other enterprise emulate it. I mention it only in that you were saying that Brazzers had the only website devoted to punishment fetishists, which isn't the case.
Who gives a fuck? This is BS. Fuck Visa. I'll be canceling mine as soon as I can and will tell anyone who will listen they should do so as well and why.
Interesting discussion. On the one hand, Brazzers does not want to be complicit in any kind of abusive porn, so they refuse to process the payments. On the other hand, who are they to take the moral high ground when they hose so many people financially? I wish that god damned porn star punishment shit would change to proper erotic punishment - spanking - and cut this other crap. And I wish Kink would devote some effort to it, too. But the only say I have in any of it is what I buy, so I guesss what I think makes minimal difference.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Jun 5 2012 : 10:35PM
So what is going to be your exact arguement? "Hey, you should cancel your Visa because they don't do business with Brazzers porn site?"
