What do you guys think of extreme hardcore porn?

Author	Post
shadows Member 17 Posts 10/08	Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:40PM It seems whenever I hear someone who watches porn dissing hardcore porn, they sound like Christians dissing the porn industry. I personally watch hardcore porn, it's just a fantasy to me, it's not something I would be doing with a sex partner. The thing that bothers me the most is when you are automatically called a 'women hater'. I've only been to one hardcore porn site that really pushes the envelope and that's facialabuse.com/latinaabuse.com/ghettogaggers.com(said one because they're owned by one comapany) I just thought it'd be nice to hear what both sides have to say. [Link]
Mr Springer Member You don't do more with less, you do less with less. 61 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:59PM Ghetto Gaggers is not my cup of tea. But I'm not one to condemn the choices of others because I'm into other forms of BDSM. To each his own. That said, I think there are some "women haters" that do get off on that kind of porn, but that may/may not describe the average viewer and it definitely doesn't describe ALL viewers. For the purposes of this thread, what do you mean by "extreme hardcore?" That can mean different things to different people. [Link]
WardqueenJanine Member 914 Posts 2/08	Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 6:12AM Mr Springer wrote: For the purposes of this thread, what do you mean by "extreme hardcore?" That can mean different things to different people. Click to expand +1 [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 5:29AM Mr Springer wrote: For the purposes of this thread, what do you mean by "extreme hardcore?" That can mean different things to different people. Click to expand "Extreme hardcore" is the stuff most porn girls wouldn't do if the rent of the last three months wasn't due. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 5:33AM shadows wrote: it's just a fantasy to me, it's not something I would be doing with a sex partner. The thing that bothers me the most is when you are automatically called a 'women hater'. Click to expand If women in misery are your fantasy, you shouldn't be surprised that some people call you women hater. [Link]

porndude Member 88 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 5:59AM To a monk, kissing is hardcore porn. Also I wonder what Annette Scwarz would class as hardcore porn? Edited by - porndude on 1/25/2009 6:10:11 AM [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 6:54AM Juha makes a good point. I don't really care if people like watching shitty 'extreme' porn, its when they suggest that it is the end-all and be-all of porn that I feel like telling them to fuck off. There's good rough porn and bad rough porn, but not all porn has to be rough. While you have the right to watch what you want others have the right to say it is shit and/or comment on it as they see fit. There also seems to be an inability to differentiate between S&M fantasy and real abuse by some viewers (those looking for scenes with the women 'in real distress'), but what can you expect from the kind of mouth-breathers that a porn forum will inevitably attract? Edited by - BlackSix on 1/25/2009 6:57:31 AM [Link]
Breeze Member One Smokin Hot Chic 532 Posts 11/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 9:58AM I love what I would consider "extreme" hardcore porn with consensual adults. My favorite "extreme" film is Fashionistas 1. I even have enjoyed watching some of Max Hardcores films. I like it when the actors are "into it." Watching girls get abused and not seemingly enjoying is a turn off to me as is watching the male talent just acting like teenage assholes and laughing as they act. As long as everybody is consensual I love it. [Link]
SunShowers Member 333 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:31AM "I even have enjoyed watching some of Max Hardcores films. I like it when the actors are "into it." Watching girls get abused and not seemingly enjoying is a turn off to me as is watching the male talent just acting like teenage assholes and laughing as they act." Wow. I have seen enough of Max Hardcore to know that none of his co-stars can be described as "into it." You say that the girls not enjoying it is a turn off, yet you say you can get off to Max Hardcore? I doubt any of his co-stars experience even accidental pleasure from working with him. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 1:11PM ^ "None of his co-stars"? I have to disagee with you based on logic and common sense. Max has had girls who've done multiple scenes with him. If the experience was so unpleasant I doubt they'd come back for a second time. All girls are different. Some girls probably liked the "extreme" stuff. Some probably didn't. Max was purposely making movies for a particular audience. I'd guess that most times the girls who seemed to not like what was being done were playing a role and acting like they disliked it more than they really did. From what little I've seen of Max's stuff more often than not the girls were being portrayed as being into what was happening (I'd have to imgine some were). I'm not saying every girls loved the experience but I'd have to imagine that the fact that Max has been around for as long as he has and he had repeat co-stars it's hard to believe that every girl he worked with had bad experiences. And really...if you take away the stupid stuff like smearing the lipstick, using the strange toys/devices, showing the insides of the girls anus and peeing...Sexually Max wasn't packing that much. I'd think doing a scene with the bigger endowed porn guys who would be much more uncomfortable and harder to do for a girl. That other stuff I mentioned is meant to be degrading but it's only as degrading as a person chooses to see it. Smearing lipstick? I see it as stupid more than anything. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 1:24PM Before I discoved this site my personal definition of "extreme" was hard and heavy sex along the lines of what the EVIL ANGEL and JULES JORDAN lines do. I've never seen the stuff at the sites mentioned here but I'm not a fan of the choking, slapping and gaging stuff in general. Scenes of guys just being mean to women isn't a turn on. I'm guessing that's more of the actual definition of "extreme". But even that stuff can be exciting if the girl is totally into it and keeping up with the guy no matter what he throws at her. There are women who can do that type of scene and make it sexy. I think Belladonna, Sandra Romain, or Kelly Wells can do that stuff and make it hot. So it's not a totally black or white thing for me. [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 1:59PM I like the extreme stuff if the girl is obviously/unmistakably into it. If she is resisting or having major difficulty (whether pretend/acting or genuine) I don't like it. Something about a girl with BIG sexual appetites who likes to do "unusual" things to get satisfaction. [Link]
Mr Springer Member You don't do more with less, you do less with less. 61 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 2:48PM Breeze wrote: I love what I would consider "extreme" hardcore porn with consensual adults. My favorite "extreme" film is Fashionistas 1. I even have enjoyed watching some of Max Hardcores films. I like it when the actors are "into it." Watching girls get abused and not seemingly enjoying is a turn off to me as is watching the male talent just acting like teenage assholes and laughing as they act. As long as everybody is consensual I love it. Click to expand The first Fashionistas was a great movie. Even though the back of the box says it's not for the novice porn viewer (which I consider myself to be), the whole thing was tasteful. Consensual is the way to go. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 4:19PM BlackSix wrote: those looking for scenes with the women 'in real distress' Click to expand Yes, these threads are appalling. [Link]
SunShowers Member 333 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 5:46PM Whatever. I have a vagina, along with a woman's perspective. He's an ugly, old bastard with an unimpressive package. He says weird, stupid shit during sex, most of which is anal, and pries women open with speculums. Any guy who thinks that is normal sexual behavior towards a woman is bad news. [Link]

killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18635 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 7:29PM ^While I agree with you that Max Hardcore movies are terrible, I'd like to play Devil's advocate for a moment. As a woman, what would you say to another woman who does like Max Hardcore-type sex and porn flicks? If she claims it's normal, healthy, beautiful, sexy, or whatever else, would you dispute her? And how? [Link]
porndude Member 88 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 8:38PM SunShowers wrote: Whatever. I have a vagina, along with a woman's perspective. He's an ugly, old bastard with an unimpressive package. He says weird, stupid shit during sex, most of which is anal, and pries women open with speculums. Any guy who thinks that is normal sexual behavior towards a woman is bad news. Click to expand You do not decide what is correct porn, or not. You are not the decidanator. [Link]
SunShowers Member 333 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 9:38PM "As a woman, what would you say to another woman who does like Max Hardcore-type sex and porn flicks? If she claims it's normal, healthy, beautiful, sexy, or whatever else, would you dispute her? And how?" Of course I would dispute her. You know, this is a touchy issue. On the one hand, different strokes for different folks. There are as many fetishes as there are people, and everybody is entitled to have fantasies. But on the other, some of those fantasies can be unhealthy and dangerous. As much as it annoys some people, people who like to believe their abnormal sex habits are actually just "sexual choices," some issues ARE black and white. Having a light spanking fetish is different from liking to imagine you are anally destroying an underage girl, which is what Mr. Hardcore likes. It depends. Is this a woman who just watches his type of porn or one who regularly works with him? Because working with him is a different matter entirely. It's one thing to get off on the idea of someone being so terribly mistreated and going through it yourself. The irony is that no clits are probably ever stimulated during his scenes, which is what it takes for most women to get off. I seriously doubt there are women who wholeheartedly and enthusiastically would enjoy that kind of sexual treatment. I can conceive of some perhaps liking it from a fantasy standpoint, but not physically enduring it and enjoying it. "You do not decide what is correct porn, or not. You are not the decidanator." Sure, I do. Just as I "decidanate" that murdering or hurting others is incorrect human behavior. [Link]
Mr Springer Member You don't do more with less, you do less with less. 61 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 9:51PM SunShowers wrote: pries women open with speculums. Click to expand WTF?!? I understand first amendment and all that, but that's a bit much. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:07PM Damn here we go again !!! [Link]
porndude Member 88 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:08PM Sure, I do. Just as I "decidanate" that murdering or hurting others is incorrect human behavior. Click to expand Then don't watch it. If someone wants to watch a girl drink piss or whatever who gives you the right to go round saying that should be banned? And there are probably girls that want to do that sort of thing, bugger off if you think you can say they can't. Edited by - porndude on 1/25/2009 10:10:02 PM [Link]
MythMaker Member Jada... the best thing in porn 919 Posts 7/07	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:25PM An interesting thread. I think it is important to understand that adult videos are fantasies. To sustain and perform at the intensity and creativity that performers exude in most any scene, from generic to 'hard-edge', would be near impossible for most couples. These are staged events that are filmed over hours in a day. In that they are staged fantasies, the level at which the performers perform, the direction, and the subject matter/material/fetish are generally pre-determined, or at least monitored (totally a guess, I would have no way of knowing). Scenes with gangbangs, DAV/DAP, large toys, cumeating, and such are what I consider extreme acts in and of themselves. The tone of the act, in which the recipient is made out to be humiliated by what they do or do so against their will is what gets me. I have watched Jake Malone, whose movies I LOVE, and many times there is a pre-interview where he tells the woman she is going to be pushed to see how far she can go. Mason also pushes her talent. Michael Ninn has done so to great effect. I find it erotic when it looks like there is an edge, but it feels safe becuse it could be stopped, or everything is above board safety wise. I have not seen people with questionable web content, but I would think there are less talented people who present things that portray these "forced" or "limit-pushing" acts on unsuspecting talent whose reactions of fear are genuine and disturbing. I say disturbing, not provocative. It is these envelope pushing events that will bring violence into the formula. This is the type of content that draws negative attention legally, professionally, in a business sense, and morally. The things put out by Jake and Mason, to name a few I like, are acts and events I could never act out in real life and I am, not to sound like a schmuck, engaged with the dynamic in an intellectual as well as primally sexual way. I also believe Jake and Mason understand that angle, and it's not about portraying women as dirt or of no value. This is very hard to explain. Someone above posted the fan of ultra-hardedge material as believing that's what sex is and should be like at all times is disturbing. It's that individual, male or female, who will act in such a way in real life. Chicken and the egg phenomena, but I believe there are many other intertwining factors other than the adult material this individual consumes as contributing to a potentially dangerous act. I may be off topic. Hard edge is titllating when the safety is understood and respected. This holds true in adult material much like it would for someone who enters a situation in real life where mental, emotional, and especially physcial safety are at risk. To end - adult material that claims to portray a woman as "barely legal" but has them swinging on a swingset calling for "mommy" is truly fucked up. What that is meant to portray is not open for argument, it's pretty clear, regardless if the actor is 50. Keep violence and genuine abuse out of adult - there is just too much else to work with to foster these vile outlooks on sexuality. My opinion on all scores is subjective, of course. [Link]
SunShowers Member 333 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:45PM "Then don't watch it." I don't, but it doesn't change the fact that, like genocide or serial murder, it bothers me that it exists. "If someone wants to watch a girl drink piss or whatever who gives you the right to go round saying that should be banned?" I never said it should be banned. My initial point was that most women wouldn't enjoy that kind of sexual activity. I responded with surprise because someone said they liked rough porn that shows women enjoying it, then used Max Hardcore as an example. My point was, most if not all of his co-stars probably don't enjoy it. "And there are probably girls that want to do that sort of thing, bugger off if you think you can say they can't." Again, never said they couldn't. I've been known to like piss in porn. I'm talking about his ignorance of the clit, his plunder of a girl's dry asshole, his penchant for saying horrific things, and his love for stretching girls wide with speculums. Not to mention the childlike appearances of the girls and his little Barbie/dildos he likes to use on them. It's all a god damned nightmare and YET AGAIN, I repeat that most if not all of his co-stars probably don't enjoy it. If you're a champion for Max Hardcore, then you obviously like the misogynistic aspect of what he does. So wouldn't it add to your enjoyment that the girls are probably hating every minute of it? So what's the problem? [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18635 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:49PM SunShowers wrote: Of course I would dispute her. You know, this is a touchy issue. On the one hand, different strokes for different folks. There are as many fetishes as there are people, and everybody is entitled to have fantasies. But on the other, some of those fantasies can be unhealthy and dangerous. Click to expand First of all, thanks for your response. The reason I asked about this is because I know that I, as a man, have particular things that I would say to another man in regards to discussions surrounding extreme sex and incredibly rough treatment of women in sex, etc. But I imagine it's a bit of a different conversation if one woman is talking to another woman about the same thing. To continue the discussion just a little bit more, let's assume a particular woman you know is into this type of extreme porn, but only as fantasy - she's not into actually being anally destroyed, or shit on, or beat within an inch of her life, or pried open with a speculum. But she loves to watch it happen. Is this something that you would consider speaking to her about, because of some sort of concern for her mental well-being? (Assuming of course that this is a person you feel comfortable speaking about intimate subjects with.) Or would you say "live and let live"? (I should add here that I don't personally know what I would do in this situation, but I'm curious what you have to say nonetheless.) [Link]
SunShowers Member 333 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 11:05PM "First of all, thanks for your response. The reason I asked about this is because I know that I, as a man, have particular things that I would say to another man in regards to discussions surrounding extreme sex and incredibly rough treatment of women in sex, etc. But I imagine it's a bit of a different conversation if one woman is talking to another woman about the same thing. To continue the discussion just a little bit more, let's assume a particular woman you know is into this type of extreme porn, but only as fantasy - she's not into actually being anally destroyed, or shit on, or beat within an inch of her life, or pried open with a speculum. But she loves to watch it happen. Is this something that you would consider speaking to her about, because of some sort of concern for her mental well-being? (Assuming of course that this is a person you feel comfortable speaking about intimate subjects with.) Or would you say "live and let live"? (I should add here that I don't personally know what I would do in this situation, but I'm curious what you have to say nonetheless.)" It wouldn't be my business to talk to her about it. Everybody has faults, little seeds of perversity or darkness in them. I don't think it would be good for someone like that to indulge in the fantasy too often, but that would be up to her. This question hits too close to home because I have REALLY gotten off to some rough porn before. I think Max Hardcore is the lowest you can get, but I'm not going to say that I don't find some degradation exciting. But I recognize that this isn't healthy for me to indulge. I don't like the way I feel when I fantasize about or see this sort of thing. It may feel good while I'm doing it, but it's gone as soon as I cum and I'm left there to fight the guilt. I'm not a prude, but I do think sex and violence are too closely linked in the first place. It can be dangerous to let them get mixed up. I worry more about the male viewer who watches this kind of thing and lets it replace positive sexual inclinations. I think it's easier for men to do that then it is for women. [Link]

Breeze Member One Smokin Hot Chic 532 Posts 11/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 11:28PM SunShowers wrote: To continue the discussion just a little bit more, let's assume a particular woman you know is into this type of extreme porn, but only as fantasy - she's not into actually being anally destroyed, or shit on, or beat within an inch of her life, or pried open with a speculum. Click to expand Dude, I sure hope you aren't married, cuz if you are you better invest in a chastity belt. I happen to know a handful of women who like to be degraded, and they like to have their ass stretched, pussy stretched. They like to get fucked rough and hard. But it is all consensual. A little slapping on their face while they suck my rock hard cock. The girls I date even like getting spit on. To each their own. [Link]
stinkfist Senior Member Subterfuge...... 7401 Posts 4/07	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 11:29PM Breeze wrote: SunShowers wrote: To continue the discussion just a little bit more, let's assume a particular woman you know is into this type of extreme porn, but only as fantasy - she's not into actually being anally destroyed, or shit on, or beat within an inch of her life, or pried open with a speculum. Click to expand Dude, I sure hope you aren't married, cuz if you are you better invest in a chastity belt. I happen to know a handful of women who like to be degraded, and they like to have their ass stretched, pussy stretched. They like to get fucked rough and hard. But it is all consensual. A little slapping on their face while they suck my rock hard cock. The girls I date even like getting spit on. To each their own. Click to expand Pssst any phone numbers. [Link]
SunShowers Member 333 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 11:31PM Nice. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:04AM It can be good or it can be crap. Just like any other kind of porn. More often than not, it's done very poorly. I used to be happy with it as a basic product but hardcore fucking and so forth are just the bare mechanics of sex. Sex is more than that. [Link]
Breeze Member One Smokin Hot Chic 532 Posts 11/08	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:16AM stinkfist wrote: Pssst any phone numbers. Click to expand Well if you could teach me how to write " I am crazy" upside down I might be interested in helping you find these girls. They are rarely super models and just "normal people" that feel trapped in a dead end marriage. [Link]
stinkfist Senior Member Subterfuge...... 7401 Posts 4/07	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:19AM Here you go. [Link]
Myload Senior Member A rose is what you are to me 2069 Posts 6/03	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:26AM I don't condemn people who are into extreme hardcore porn, but I'm not into it. That type of porn just isn't my thing. [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:29AM shadows wrote: The thing that bothers me the most is when you are automatically called a 'women hater'. Click to expand It doesn't bother me. Actually, I find it hypocritical and ironic when I hear those comments coming from people who watch porn, since that's the exact same thing that the anti-porn crowd would call them for watching porn at all, extreme or not. To call someone a woman-hater or a misogynist because his taste in pornography is more on the rougher edge is absolutely ridiculous; no different from any other ridiculous broad sweeping generalization. Porn caters to fantasies, particularly male fantasies. Since when do fantasies have to be safe or socially acceptable? It's a good thing that no one else can read our fantasies, or else we would all probably be labelled perverse deviants and thrown in jail. The other good thing about fantasies is just because we have them doesn't mean we're going to act on them. An adult man who sees a voluptuous, physically developed 16 year-old girl walking down the street may naturally have certain fantasies enter his head. But upon finding out how old the girl is, he won't act on it. Also, I cannot count the number of times I have heard women say they fantasize about being raped or dominated by a man. Yet, that doesn't mean that they really want some sociopath to jump out the bushes and attack them. It's only a fantasy. Likewise, just because a man enjoys watching Max Hardcore stick a speculum up a girl's ass doesn't mean that he hates women. To the contrary, he might be a better husband/boyfriend than some jerk who has never watched a porno before in his life. Porn has nothing do with why some men really do hate women. Just like how teenagers committing crimes has nothing to with rap music or video games or any of that other bullshit we try to blame it on. Having said all that, I enjoy rough/extreme porn. I also enjoy non-extreme straight vanilla-type porn. Whether it's a couple having romantic vaginal intercourse on a bed, or a guy flushing a girl's face in a toilet, I'll watch it either way as long as it's good. But I'm not going to put labels on anyone simply because of the type of porn they watch, as long as it's legal and consensual. People who do that simply don't know what the hell they're talking about, and are obviously speaking from a very limited and prejudiced worldview. Edited by - realtip on 1/26/2009 12:33:31 AM [Link]
Myload Senior Member A rose is what you are to me 2069 Posts 6/03	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:54AM Mr Springer wrote: The first Fashionistas was a great movie. Even though the back of the box says it's not for the novice porn viewer (which I consider myself to be), the whole thing was tasteful. Click to expand I totally agree with you. It's one of my favorite movies. But I don't put it in the "extreme porn" category because everything in the movie is part of the plot. [Link]
reaper Member 21 Posts 12/08	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:18AM shadows wrote: It seems whenever I hear someone who watches porn dissing hardcore porn, they sound like Christians dissing the porn industry. I personally watch hardcore porn, it's just a fantasy to me, it's not something I would be doing with a sex partner. The thing that bothers me the most is when you are automatically called a 'women hater'. I've only been to one hardcore porn site that really pushes the envelope and that's facialabuse.com/latinaabuse.com/ghettogaggers.com(said one because they're owned by one comapany) I just thought it'd be nice to hear what both sides have to say. Click to expand Like minded people attract like minded people. That is all I got to say. [Link]

Mr Springer Member You don't do more with less, you do less with less. 61 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:52AM realtip wrote: shadows wrote: The thing that bothers me the most is when you are automatically called a 'women hater'. Click to expand It doesn't bother me. Actually, I find it hypocritical and ironic when I hear those comments coming from people who watch porn, since that's the exact same thing that the anti-porn crowd would call them for watching porn at all, extreme or not. To call someone a woman-hater or a misogynist because his taste in pornography is more on the rougher edge is absolutely ridiculous; no different from any other ridiculous broad sweeping generalization. Porn caters to fantasies, particularly male fantasies. Since when do fantasies have to be safe or socially acceptable? It's a good thing that no one else can read our fantasies, or else we would all probably be labelled perverse deviants and thrown in jail. Edited by - realtip on 1/26/2009 12:33:31 AM Click to expand I must agree with you on these two paragraphs. If thought crimes were illegal, I'd get 25 to life or locked up in somebody's institution. I used to do a lot of work with teens and... well, I'll just leave it at that. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:53AM realtip wrote: Porn caters to fantasies, particularly male fantasies. Since when do fantasies have to be safe or socially acceptable? It's a good thing that no one else can read our fantasies, or else we would all probably be labelled perverse deviants and thrown in jail. Click to expand Yes, porn caters to fantasies. But for the performers it is reality. And you live out your fantasy by buying the DVD. Because you spent your dollar in reality and not only in your fantasy you reinforce producers making women suffer. I don't care what you fantasize about but as soon as it is put on DVD it isn't a fantasy anymore. It's harsh reality. [Link]
Mr Springer Member You don't do more with less, you do less with less. 61 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:58AM juha wrote: realtip wrote: Porn caters to fantasies, particularly male fantasies. Since when do fantasies have to be safe or socially acceptable? It's a good thing that no one else can read our fantasies, or else we would all probably be labelled perverse deviants and thrown in jail. Click to expand Yes, porn caters to fantasies. But for the performers it is reality. And you live out your fantasy by buying the DVD. Because you spent your dollar in reality and not only in your fantasy you reinforce producers making women suffer. I don't care what you fantasize about but as soon as it is put on DVD it isn't a fantasy anymore. It's harsh reality. Click to expand I see where you're trying to go with this, but porn is no more realistic than "reality" TV in some cases and action movies in others. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 2:06AM Mr Springer wrote: I see where you're trying to go with this, but porn is no more realistic than "reality" TV in some cases and action movies in others. Click to expand Action movies are produced in a safe environment. And the actors and stuntmen are professionals. If a veteran porn star chooses to produce a DVD with triple anal I'm fine. I don't watch it but I don't call it extreme porn. If a just turned 18 girl is abused on set its extreme porn. And people who get off on this stuff are misogynists. [Link]
Mr Springer Member You don't do more with less, you do less with less. 61 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 2:15AM juha wrote: Mr Springer wrote: I see where you're trying to go with this, but porn is no more realistic than "reality" TV in some cases and action movies in others. Click to expand Action movies are produced in a safe environment. And the actors and stuntmen are professionals. If a veteran porn star chooses to produce a DVD with triple anal I'm fine. I don't watch it but I don't call it extreme porn. If a just turned 18 girl is abused on set its extreme porn. And people who get off on this stuff are misogynists. Click to expand You're painting the industry with a very broad brush. Abuse on set is wrong, and its fucked up. You'll find no argument from me there, and sometimes I wonder about people who get off on that stuff, but to each his/her own at the end of the day. I haven't been around enough people who enjoy that kind of thing to come to any educated conclusion on that. With this particular discussion, it's hard to say what is extreme porn, because like anything else, it's up to the individual viewer to determine what's extreme. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 2:46AM Mr Springer wrote: With this particular discussion, it's hard to say what is extreme porn, because like anything else, it's up to the individual viewer to determine what's extreme. Click to expand You approach this topic from the wrong side. It's not up to the individual viewer. It's up to the individual performer. And if a vast majority of performers agrees on specific acts being unpleasant and extreme, then it is extreme porn. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 4:30AM juha wrote: You approach this topic from the wrong side. It's not up to the individual viewer. It's up to the individual performer. And if a vast majority of performers agrees on specific acts being unpleasant and extreme, then it is extreme porn. Click to expand Your arguments are becoming more and more bizarre. Could you please elaborate? What are you talking about? [Link]
Gunzo Senior Member 1377 Posts 2/05	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 5:40AM Those making extreme hardcore porn are like Uwe Boll, they know they suck at the craft, so instead they have to do something that'll piss a lot of people off in order to get attention (and a very select few die hard fans calling them misunderstood geniuses). [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 11:00AM RandomPrecision wrote: Your arguments are becoming more and more bizarre. Could you please elaborate? What are you talking about? Click to expand The viewer only can decide if the stuff he watches entertains him or not. But letting the viewer define what's "extreme" is plain wrong. The "your kink is as good as my kink"-phrase is bullshit. If the perfomer feels degraded or hurt then the porn is "extreme". And you can't say that its okay, just because that's the stuff that gets you off. [Link]
NewRomancer Deactivated User under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 11:05AM Mostly, I think at best it's pretty boring At worst it's mostly pretty disgusting. Your mileage may vary [Link]
RevCo Member Pot 'n' Porn Party (PPP) 40 Posts 9/08	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:20PM "Wow. I have seen enough of Max Hardcore to know that none of his co-stars can be described as "into it." You say that the girls not enjoying it is a turn off, yet you say you can get off to Max Hardcore?" SunShower - when you use the term 'none' you are just begging for argument. There are more than a few women who look like they are enjoying it with Max. Catalina and Layla are two that immediately pop into mind. I think that if you look, about 80% of porn the performers look board or not 'into-it', which is why 'real deal' women make a big splash in the scene (Sasha Grey). Ultimately, however, they are getting paid to 'perform', they are doing it for money, so while I love the altruistic slut who does it 'because she really likes sex', it is generally simple economics. If you want to argue that this type of 'acting' is damaging to the woman performer, then you are getting way too close to 'big brother' for me. If you are concerned with the affect it may have on the audience, to the best of my knowledge there has never been a study that has linked porn to violence. I see far more abusive behavior to women in America that is done by the 'main-stream media'. Remember, in the U.S. an 'average' kid will see about 10,000 deaths on TV before they are 15 years old, but when Janet Jackson shows a nipple-cover (not even the nipple) then there is true outrage. WTF.... Finally, can we stop with the 'Max Hate'? Yes, he looks like an asshole but is a true innovator of porn, while you may not like what he has given to the industry, it is hard to argue against it. [Link]
john lyons Senior Member Co-founder of Vinegar Syndrome 1188 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:20PM I think the key here, and always is, the amount of genuine realism one's getting. Just to be very general, if the person is being harmed in any way (even if they're into being harmed), I'm against it. As long as no one is getting hurt, it's OK by me. I find a lot of the stuff disgusting, but it's simply not my taste. I don't think anyone who watches this stuff is a woman-hater per se, but if you're getting off on the idea that the performer is truly miserable or in pain, that's just awful regardless, whether it's in relation to a man or woman. My response to Killbill's comment regarding whether it's "OK" for women to say they enjoy watching or engaging in Max Hardcore like sex is of course it's OK. I've met people into way more extreme stuff than what he does. But again, the key is consent and comfort. It's easy for a viewer to say "I dig it" than a performer to engage in it. To that extent, anyone who enjoys watching unsimulated suffering and gets off on the pain and injury of others is probably a bit sick. I look at it in the same way as I view people who enjoy watching real death footage. Blood squibs are different than bullet holes. [Link]
Mr Springer Member You don't do more with less, you do less with less. 61 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:26PM RevCo wrote: If you are concerned with the affect it may have on the audience, to the best of my knowledge there has never been a study that has linked porn to violence. Click to expand There are a ton of scholarly studies on the effects of pornography on aggression (I'll probably be doing my master's thesis on that very topic). I have some issues with the methodology of a lot of the studies I've read, but a compelling case can be put together that porn leads to violence against women. I'm not saying I buy it, but nonetheless, a case can be made. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:32PM juha wrote: The viewer only can decide if the stuff he watches entertains him or not. Click to expand The viewer can decide anything he or she likes. Because it is their mind. But letting the viewer define what's "extreme" is plain wrong. Click to expand How do you figure? The "your kink is as good as my kink"-phrase is bullshit. Click to expand Can you explain why you believe this or is it good enough just to say it as though the word "bullshit" makes an effective argument all by itself? If the perfomer feels degraded or hurt then the porn is "extreme". And you can't say that its okay, just because that's the stuff that gets you off. Click to expand If the performer feels degraded or hurt, the performer should do something about it. You can't blame the viewer (who wasn't even there) for what a porn performer allows to happen. Edited by - randomprecision on 1/26/2009 12:33:56 PM [Link]
RevCo Member Pot 'n' Porn Party (PPP) 40 Posts 9/08	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:33PM juha wrote: RandomPrecision wrote: Your arguments are becoming more and more bizarre. Could you please elaborate? What are you talking about? Click to expand The viewer only can decide if the stuff he watches entertains him or not. But letting the viewer define what's "extreme" is plain wrong. The "your kink is as good as my kink"-phrase is bullshit. If the perfomer feels degraded or hurt then the porn is "extreme". And you can't say that its okay, just because that's the stuff that gets you off. Click to expand WTF bubble do you live in? I am sure a lot of performers don't feel 'super great' the day after they have a triple-anal, but they go back and do it again and again and again (bless them). Is that 'extreme'? If I watch a 'cosplay' movie where the woman dressed in the rabbit-suit feels degraded, then I guess that's extreme too? I would suggest that if you really are concerned about bad influences on women, then you should do some research on the causes of anorexia and bulimia in this country... I don't think they came from porn but think about the twisting of young psyches to 'fit in' that can lead to death, that is obscene. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 11:42PM Draxxx wrote: That other stuff I mentioned is meant to be degrading but it's only as degrading as a person chooses to see it. Click to expand That's a common excuse but come on, the entire point is that IT IS degrading, otherwise what's the point? Those who like it should just admit they get off on degradation and stop making this weak argument. [Link]

Author

Post

shadows
Member

17 Posts
10/08

Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:40PM

It seems whenever I hear someone who watches porn dissing hardcore porn, they sound like Christians dissing the porn industry. I personally watch hardcore porn, it's just a fantasy to me, it's not something I would be doing with a sex partner. The thing that bothers me the most is when you are automatically called a 'women hater'. I've only been to one hardcore porn site that really pushes the envelope and that's facialabuse.com/latinaabuse.com/ghettogaggers.com(said one because they're owned by one comapany)
I just thought it'd be nice to hear what both sides have to say.

[Link]

Mr Springer
Member

You don't do more with less, you do less with less.
61 Posts
1/09

Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:59PM

Ghetto Gaggers is not my cup of tea. But I'm not one to condemn the choices of others because I'm into other forms of BDSM.
To each his own.
That said, I think there are some "women haters" that do get off on that kind of porn, but that may/may not describe the average viewer and it definitely doesn't describe ALL viewers.
For the purposes of this thread, what do you mean by "extreme hardcore?" That can mean different things to different people.

[Link]

WardqueenJanine
Member

914 Posts
2/08

Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 6:12AM

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 5:29AM

"Extreme hardcore" is the stuff most porn girls wouldn't do if the rent of the last three months wasn't due.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 5:33AM

If women in misery are your fantasy, you shouldn't be surprised that some people call you women hater.

[Link]

porndude
Member

88 Posts
7/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 5:59AM

To a monk, kissing is hardcore porn.
Also I wonder what Annette Scwarz would class as hardcore porn?
Edited by - porndude on 1/25/2009 6:10:11 AM

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 6:54AM

Juha makes a good point. I don't really care if people like watching shitty 'extreme' porn, its when they suggest that it is the end-all and be-all of porn that I feel like telling them to fuck off. There's good rough porn and bad rough porn, but not all porn has to be rough. While you have the right to watch what you want others have the right to say it is shit and/or comment on it as they see fit.
There also seems to be an inability to differentiate between S&M fantasy and real abuse by some viewers (those looking for scenes with the women 'in real distress'), but what can you expect from the kind of mouth-breathers that a porn forum will inevitably attract?
Edited by - BlackSix on 1/25/2009 6:57:31 AM

[Link]

Breeze
Member

One Smokin Hot Chic
532 Posts
11/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 9:58AM

I love what I would consider "extreme" hardcore porn with consensual adults. My favorite "extreme" film is Fashionistas 1. I even have enjoyed watching some of Max Hardcores films. I like it when the actors are "into it." Watching girls get abused and not seemingly enjoying is a turn off to me as is watching the male talent just acting like teenage assholes and laughing as they act.
As long as everybody is consensual I love it.

[Link]

SunShowers
Member

333 Posts
4/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:31AM

"I even have enjoyed watching some of Max Hardcores films. I like it when the actors are "into it." Watching girls get abused and not seemingly enjoying is a turn off to me as is watching the male talent just acting like teenage assholes and laughing as they act."
Wow. I have seen enough of Max Hardcore to know that none of his co-stars can be described as "into it." You say that the girls not enjoying it is a turn off, yet you say you can get off to Max Hardcore?
I doubt any of his co-stars experience even accidental pleasure from working with him.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 1:11PM

^ "None of his co-stars"? I have to disagee with you based on logic and common sense. Max has had girls who've done multiple scenes with him. If the experience was so unpleasant I doubt they'd come back for a second time. All girls are different. Some girls probably liked the "extreme" stuff. Some probably didn't. Max was purposely making movies for a particular audience. I'd guess that most times the girls who seemed to not like what was being done were playing a role and acting like they disliked it more than they really did. From what little I've seen of Max's stuff more often than not the girls were being portrayed as being into what was happening (I'd have to imgine some were). I'm not saying every girls loved the experience but I'd have to imagine that the fact that Max has been around for as long as he has and he had repeat co-stars it's hard to believe that every girl he worked with had bad experiences.
And really...if you take away the stupid stuff like smearing the lipstick, using the strange toys/devices, showing the insides of the girls anus and peeing...Sexually Max wasn't packing that much. I'd think doing a scene with the bigger endowed porn guys who would be much more uncomfortable and harder to do for a girl. That other stuff I mentioned is meant to be degrading but it's only as degrading as a person chooses to see it. Smearing lipstick? I see it as stupid more than anything.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 1:24PM

Before I discoved this site my personal definition of "extreme" was hard and heavy sex along the lines of what the EVIL ANGEL and JULES JORDAN lines do. I've never seen the stuff at the sites mentioned here but I'm not a fan of the choking, slapping and gaging stuff in general. Scenes of guys just being mean to women isn't a turn on. I'm guessing that's more of the actual definition of "extreme". But even that stuff can be exciting if the girl is totally into it and keeping up with the guy no matter what he throws at her. There are women who can do that type of scene and make it sexy. I think Belladonna, Sandra Romain, or Kelly Wells can do that stuff and make it hot. So it's not a totally black or white thing for me.

[Link]

ninja1
Senior Member

2939 Posts
1/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 1:59PM

I like the extreme stuff if the girl is obviously/unmistakably into it. If she is resisting or having major difficulty (whether pretend/acting or genuine) I don't like it. Something about a girl with BIG sexual appetites who likes to do "unusual" things to get satisfaction.

[Link]

Mr Springer
Member

You don't do more with less, you do less with less.
61 Posts
1/09

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 2:48PM

The first Fashionistas was a great movie. Even though the back of the box says it's not for the novice porn viewer (which I consider myself to be), the whole thing was tasteful.
Consensual is the way to go.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 4:19PM

Yes, these threads are appalling.

[Link]

SunShowers
Member

333 Posts
4/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 5:46PM

Whatever. I have a vagina, along with a woman's perspective. He's an ugly, old bastard with an unimpressive package. He says weird, stupid shit during sex, most of which is anal, and pries women open with speculums.
Any guy who thinks that is normal sexual behavior towards a woman is bad news.

[Link]

killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18635 Posts
4/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 7:29PM

^While I agree with you that Max Hardcore movies are terrible, I'd like to play Devil's advocate for a moment.
As a woman, what would you say to another woman who does like Max Hardcore-type sex and porn flicks? If she claims it's normal, healthy, beautiful, sexy, or whatever else, would you dispute her? And how?

[Link]

porndude
Member

88 Posts
7/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 8:38PM

You do not decide what is correct porn, or not. You are not the decidanator.

[Link]

SunShowers
Member

333 Posts
4/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 9:38PM

"As a woman, what would you say to another woman who does like Max Hardcore-type sex and porn flicks? If she claims it's normal, healthy, beautiful, sexy, or whatever else, would you dispute her? And how?"
Of course I would dispute her. You know, this is a touchy issue. On the one hand, different strokes for different folks. There are as many fetishes as there are people, and everybody is entitled to have fantasies. But on the other, some of those fantasies can be unhealthy and dangerous.
As much as it annoys some people, people who like to believe their abnormal sex habits are actually just "sexual choices," some issues ARE black and white. Having a light spanking fetish is different from liking to imagine you are anally destroying an underage girl, which is what Mr. Hardcore likes.
It depends. Is this a woman who just watches his type of porn or one who regularly works with him? Because working with him is a different matter entirely. It's one thing to get off on the idea of someone being so terribly mistreated and going through it yourself. The irony is that no clits are probably ever stimulated during his scenes, which is what it takes for most women to get off.
I seriously doubt there are women who wholeheartedly and enthusiastically would enjoy that kind of sexual treatment. I can conceive of some perhaps liking it from a fantasy standpoint, but not physically enduring it and enjoying it.

"You do not decide what is correct porn, or not. You are not the decidanator."
Sure, I do. Just as I "decidanate" that murdering or hurting others is incorrect human behavior.

[Link]

Mr Springer
Member

You don't do more with less, you do less with less.
61 Posts
1/09

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 9:51PM

WTF?!?
I understand first amendment and all that, but that's a bit much.

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:07PM

Damn here we go again !!!

[Link]

porndude
Member

88 Posts
7/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:08PM

Then don't watch it. If someone wants to watch a girl drink piss or whatever who gives you the right to go round saying that should be banned? And there are probably girls that want to do that sort of thing, bugger off if you think you can say they can't.
Edited by - porndude on 1/25/2009 10:10:02 PM

[Link]

MythMaker
Member

Jada... the best thing in porn
919 Posts
7/07

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:25PM

An interesting thread. I think it is important to understand that adult videos are fantasies. To sustain and perform at the intensity and creativity that performers exude in most any scene, from generic to 'hard-edge', would be near impossible for most couples. These are staged events that are filmed over hours in a day.
In that they are staged fantasies, the level at which the performers perform, the direction, and the subject matter/material/fetish are generally pre-determined, or at least monitored (totally a guess, I would have no way of knowing). Scenes with gangbangs, DAV/DAP, large toys, cumeating, and such are what I consider extreme acts in and of themselves. The tone of the act, in which the recipient is made out to be humiliated by what they do or do so against their will is what gets me.
I have watched Jake Malone, whose movies I LOVE, and many times there is a pre-interview where he tells the woman she is going to be pushed to see how far she can go. Mason also pushes her talent. Michael Ninn has done so to great effect. I find it erotic when it looks like there is an edge, but it feels safe becuse it could be stopped, or everything is above board safety wise. I have not seen people with questionable web content, but I would think there are less talented people who present things that portray these "forced" or "limit-pushing" acts on unsuspecting talent whose reactions of fear are genuine and disturbing. I say disturbing, not provocative. It is these envelope pushing events that will bring violence into the formula. This is the type of content that draws negative attention legally, professionally, in a business sense, and morally.
The things put out by Jake and Mason, to name a few I like, are acts and events I could never act out in real life and I am, not to sound like a schmuck, engaged with the dynamic in an intellectual as well as primally sexual way. I also believe Jake and Mason understand that angle, and it's not about portraying women as dirt or of no value. This is very hard to explain. Someone above posted the fan of ultra-hardedge material as believing that's what sex is and should be like at all times is disturbing. It's that individual, male or female, who will act in such a way in real life. Chicken and the egg phenomena, but I believe there are many other intertwining factors other than the adult material this individual consumes as contributing to a potentially dangerous act. I may be off topic.
Hard edge is titllating when the safety is understood and respected. This holds true in adult material much like it would for someone who enters a situation in real life where mental, emotional, and especially physcial safety are at risk.
To end - adult material that claims to portray a woman as "barely legal" but has them swinging on a swingset calling for "mommy" is truly fucked up. What that is meant to portray is not open for argument, it's pretty clear, regardless if the actor is 50.
Keep violence and genuine abuse out of adult - there is just too much else to work with to foster these vile outlooks on sexuality. My opinion on all scores is subjective, of course.

[Link]

SunShowers
Member

333 Posts
4/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:45PM

"Then don't watch it."
I don't, but it doesn't change the fact that, like genocide or serial murder, it bothers me that it exists.
"If someone wants to watch a girl drink piss or whatever who gives you the right to go round saying that should be banned?"
I never said it should be banned. My initial point was that most women wouldn't enjoy that kind of sexual activity. I responded with surprise because someone said they liked rough porn that shows women enjoying it, then used Max Hardcore as an example. My point was, most if not all of his co-stars probably don't enjoy it.
"And there are probably girls that want to do that sort of thing, bugger off if you think you can say they can't."
Again, never said they couldn't. I've been known to like piss in porn. I'm talking about his ignorance of the clit, his plunder of a girl's dry asshole, his penchant for saying horrific things, and his love for stretching girls wide with speculums. Not to mention the childlike appearances of the girls and his little Barbie/dildos he likes to use on them.
It's all a god damned nightmare and YET AGAIN, I repeat that most if not all of his co-stars probably don't enjoy it.
If you're a champion for Max Hardcore, then you obviously like the misogynistic aspect of what he does. So wouldn't it add to your enjoyment that the girls are probably hating every minute of it? So what's the problem?

[Link]

killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18635 Posts
4/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 10:49PM

First of all, thanks for your response. The reason I asked about this is because I know that I, as a man, have particular things that I would say to another man in regards to discussions surrounding extreme sex and incredibly rough treatment of women in sex, etc. But I imagine it's a bit of a different conversation if one woman is talking to another woman about the same thing.
To continue the discussion just a little bit more, let's assume a particular woman you know is into this type of extreme porn, but only as fantasy - she's not into actually being anally destroyed, or shit on, or beat within an inch of her life, or pried open with a speculum. But she loves to watch it happen. Is this something that you would consider speaking to her about, because of some sort of concern for her mental well-being? (Assuming of course that this is a person you feel comfortable speaking about intimate subjects with.) Or would you say "live and let live"?
(I should add here that I don't personally know what I would do in this situation, but I'm curious what you have to say nonetheless.)

[Link]

SunShowers
Member

333 Posts
4/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 11:05PM

"First of all, thanks for your response. The reason I asked about this is because I know that I, as a man, have particular things that I would say to another man in regards to discussions surrounding extreme sex and incredibly rough treatment of women in sex, etc. But I imagine it's a bit of a different conversation if one woman is talking to another woman about the same thing.
To continue the discussion just a little bit more, let's assume a particular woman you know is into this type of extreme porn, but only as fantasy - she's not into actually being anally destroyed, or shit on, or beat within an inch of her life, or pried open with a speculum. But she loves to watch it happen. Is this something that you would consider speaking to her about, because of some sort of concern for her mental well-being? (Assuming of course that this is a person you feel comfortable speaking about intimate subjects with.) Or would you say "live and let live"?
(I should add here that I don't personally know what I would do in this situation, but I'm curious what you have to say nonetheless.)"

It wouldn't be my business to talk to her about it. Everybody has faults, little seeds of perversity or darkness in them. I don't think it would be good for someone like that to indulge in the fantasy too often, but that would be up to her.
This question hits too close to home because I have REALLY gotten off to some rough porn before. I think Max Hardcore is the lowest you can get, but I'm not going to say that I don't find some degradation exciting. But I recognize that this isn't healthy for me to indulge. I don't like the way I feel when I fantasize about or see this sort of thing. It may feel good while I'm doing it, but it's gone as soon as I cum and I'm left there to fight the guilt.
I'm not a prude, but I do think sex and violence are too closely linked in the first place. It can be dangerous to let them get mixed up. I worry more about the male viewer who watches this kind of thing and lets it replace positive sexual inclinations. I think it's easier for men to do that then it is for women.

[Link]

Breeze
Member

One Smokin Hot Chic
532 Posts
11/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 11:28PM

Dude, I sure hope you aren't married, cuz if you are you better invest in a chastity belt. I happen to know a handful of women who like to be degraded, and they like to have their ass stretched, pussy stretched. They like to get fucked rough and hard. But it is all consensual. A little slapping on their face while they suck my rock hard cock. The girls I date even like getting spit on. To each their own.

[Link]

stinkfist
Senior Member

Subterfuge......
7401 Posts
4/07

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 11:29PM

Pssst any phone numbers.

[Link]

SunShowers
Member

333 Posts
4/08

Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 11:31PM

Nice.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:04AM

It can be good or it can be crap. Just like any other kind of porn. More often than not, it's done very poorly. I used to be happy with it as a basic product but hardcore fucking and so forth are just the bare mechanics of sex. Sex is more than that.

[Link]

Breeze
Member

One Smokin Hot Chic
532 Posts
11/08

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:16AM

Well if you could teach me how to write " I am crazy" upside down I might be interested in helping you find these girls. They are rarely super models and just "normal people" that feel trapped in a dead end marriage.

[Link]

stinkfist
Senior Member

Subterfuge......
7401 Posts
4/07

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:19AM

Here you go.

[Link]

Myload
Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
2069 Posts
6/03

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:26AM

I don't condemn people who are into extreme hardcore porn, but I'm not into it. That type of porn just isn't my thing.

[Link]

realtip
Deactivated User

2301 Posts
6/04

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:29AM

It doesn't bother me. Actually, I find it hypocritical and ironic when I hear those comments coming from people who watch porn, since that's the exact same thing that the anti-porn crowd would call them for watching porn at all, extreme or not.
To call someone a woman-hater or a misogynist because his taste in pornography is more on the rougher edge is absolutely ridiculous; no different from any other ridiculous broad sweeping generalization. Porn caters to fantasies, particularly male fantasies. Since when do fantasies have to be safe or socially acceptable? It's a good thing that no one else can read our fantasies, or else we would all probably be labelled perverse deviants and thrown in jail.
The other good thing about fantasies is just because we have them doesn't mean we're going to act on them. An adult man who sees a voluptuous, physically developed 16 year-old girl walking down the street may naturally have certain fantasies enter his head. But upon finding out how old the girl is, he won't act on it. Also, I cannot count the number of times I have heard women say they fantasize about being raped or dominated by a man. Yet, that doesn't mean that they really want some sociopath to jump out the bushes and attack them. It's only a fantasy.
Likewise, just because a man enjoys watching Max Hardcore stick a speculum up a girl's ass doesn't mean that he hates women. To the contrary, he might be a better husband/boyfriend than some jerk who has never watched a porno before in his life. Porn has nothing do with why some men really do hate women. Just like how teenagers committing crimes has nothing to with rap music or video games or any of that other bullshit we try to blame it on.
Having said all that, I enjoy rough/extreme porn. I also enjoy non-extreme straight vanilla-type porn. Whether it's a couple having romantic vaginal intercourse on a bed, or a guy flushing a girl's face in a toilet, I'll watch it either way as long as it's good. But I'm not going to put labels on anyone simply because of the type of porn they watch, as long as it's legal and consensual. People who do that simply don't know what the hell they're talking about, and are obviously speaking from a very limited and prejudiced worldview.
Edited by - realtip on 1/26/2009 12:33:31 AM

[Link]

Myload
Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
2069 Posts
6/03

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:54AM

I totally agree with you. It's one of my favorite movies. But I don't put it in the "extreme porn" category because everything in the movie is part of the plot.

[Link]

reaper
Member

21 Posts
12/08

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:18AM

Like minded people attract like minded people. That is all I got to say.

[Link]

Mr Springer
Member

You don't do more with less, you do less with less.
61 Posts
1/09

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:52AM

realtip wrote:
shadows wrote:
The thing that bothers me the most is when you are automatically called a 'women hater'.
Click to expand
It doesn't bother me. Actually, I find it hypocritical and ironic when I hear those comments coming from people who watch porn, since that's the exact same thing that the anti-porn crowd would call them for watching porn at all, extreme or not.
To call someone a woman-hater or a misogynist because his taste in pornography is more on the rougher edge is absolutely ridiculous; no different from any other ridiculous broad sweeping generalization. Porn caters to fantasies, particularly male fantasies. Since when do fantasies have to be safe or socially acceptable? It's a good thing that no one else can read our fantasies, or else we would all probably be labelled perverse deviants and thrown in jail.
Edited by - realtip on 1/26/2009 12:33:31 AM
Click to expand

I must agree with you on these two paragraphs. If thought crimes were illegal, I'd get 25 to life or locked up in somebody's institution.
I used to do a lot of work with teens and... well, I'll just leave it at that.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:53AM

Yes, porn caters to fantasies.
But for the performers it is reality.
And you live out your fantasy by buying the DVD.
Because you spent your dollar in reality and not only in your fantasy you reinforce producers making women suffer.
I don't care what you fantasize about but as soon as it is put on DVD it isn't a fantasy anymore. It's harsh reality.

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Mr Springer
Member

You don't do more with less, you do less with less.
61 Posts
1/09

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:58AM

I see where you're trying to go with this, but porn is no more realistic than "reality" TV in some cases and action movies in others.

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juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 2:06AM

Action movies are produced in a safe environment.
And the actors and stuntmen are professionals.
If a veteran porn star chooses to produce a DVD with triple anal I'm fine.
I don't watch it but I don't call it extreme porn.
If a just turned 18 girl is abused on set its extreme porn.
And people who get off on this stuff are misogynists.

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Mr Springer
Member

You don't do more with less, you do less with less.
61 Posts
1/09

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 2:15AM

You're painting the industry with a very broad brush.
Abuse on set is wrong, and its fucked up. You'll find no argument from me there, and sometimes I wonder about people who get off on that stuff, but to each his/her own at the end of the day. I haven't been around enough people who enjoy that kind of thing to come to any educated conclusion on that.
With this particular discussion, it's hard to say what is extreme porn, because like anything else, it's up to the individual viewer to determine what's extreme.

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juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 2:46AM

You approach this topic from the wrong side.
It's not up to the individual viewer.
It's up to the individual performer.
And if a vast majority of performers agrees on specific acts being unpleasant and extreme, then it is extreme porn.

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 4:30AM

Your arguments are becoming more and more bizarre. Could you please elaborate? What are you talking about?

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Gunzo
Senior Member

1377 Posts
2/05

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 5:40AM

Those making extreme hardcore porn are like Uwe Boll, they know they suck at the craft, so instead they have to do something that'll piss a lot of people off in order to get attention (and a very select few die hard fans calling them misunderstood geniuses).

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juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 11:00AM

The viewer only can decide if the stuff he watches entertains him or not.
But letting the viewer define what's "extreme" is plain wrong.
The "your kink is as good as my kink"-phrase is bullshit.
If the perfomer feels degraded or hurt then the porn is "extreme".
And you can't say that its okay, just because that's the stuff that gets you off.

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NewRomancer
Deactivated User

under THEIR avatar
738 Posts
7/08

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 11:05AM

Mostly, I think at best it's pretty boring
At worst it's mostly pretty disgusting.
Your mileage may vary

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RevCo
Member

Pot 'n' Porn Party (PPP)
40 Posts
9/08

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:20PM

"Wow. I have seen enough of Max Hardcore to know that none of his co-stars can be described as "into it." You say that the girls not enjoying it is a turn off, yet you say you can get off to Max Hardcore?"
SunShower - when you use the term 'none' you are just begging for argument. There are more than a few women who look like they are enjoying it with Max. Catalina and Layla are two that immediately pop into mind.
I think that if you look, about 80% of porn the performers look board or not 'into-it', which is why 'real deal' women make a big splash in the scene (Sasha Grey). Ultimately, however, they are getting paid to 'perform', they are doing it for money, so while I love the altruistic slut who does it 'because she really likes sex', it is generally simple economics. If you want to argue that this type of 'acting' is damaging to the woman performer, then you are getting way too close to 'big brother' for me. If you are concerned with the affect it may have on the audience, to the best of my knowledge there has never been a study that has linked porn to violence.
I see far more abusive behavior to women in America that is done by the 'main-stream media'. Remember, in the U.S. an 'average' kid will see about 10,000 deaths on TV before they are 15 years old, but when Janet Jackson shows a nipple-cover (not even the nipple) then there is true outrage. WTF....
Finally, can we stop with the 'Max Hate'? Yes, he looks like an asshole but is a true innovator of porn, while you may not like what he has given to the industry, it is hard to argue against it.

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john lyons
Senior Member

Co-founder of Vinegar Syndrome
1188 Posts
1/08

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:20PM

I think the key here, and always is, the amount of genuine realism one's getting.
Just to be very general, if the person is being harmed in any way (even if they're into being harmed), I'm against it. As long as no one is getting hurt, it's OK by me.
I find a lot of the stuff disgusting, but it's simply not my taste. I don't think anyone who watches this stuff is a woman-hater per se, but if you're getting off on the idea that the performer is truly miserable or in pain, that's just awful regardless, whether it's in relation to a man or woman.
My response to Killbill's comment regarding whether it's "OK" for women to say they enjoy watching or engaging in Max Hardcore like sex is of course it's OK. I've met people into way more extreme stuff than what he does. But again, the key is consent and comfort. It's easy for a viewer to say "I dig it" than a performer to engage in it. To that extent, anyone who enjoys watching unsimulated suffering and gets off on the pain and injury of others is probably a bit sick.
I look at it in the same way as I view people who enjoy watching real death footage. Blood squibs are different than bullet holes.

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Mr Springer
Member

You don't do more with less, you do less with less.
61 Posts
1/09

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:26PM

There are a ton of scholarly studies on the effects of pornography on aggression (I'll probably be doing my master's thesis on that very topic).
I have some issues with the methodology of a lot of the studies I've read, but a compelling case can be put together that porn leads to violence against women. I'm not saying I buy it, but nonetheless, a case can be made.

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:32PM

The viewer can decide anything he or she likes. Because it is their mind.

How do you figure?

Can you explain why you believe this or is it good enough just to say it as though the word "bullshit" makes an effective argument all by itself?

If the performer feels degraded or hurt, the performer should do something about it. You can't blame the viewer (who wasn't even there) for what a porn performer allows to happen.
Edited by - randomprecision on 1/26/2009 12:33:56 PM

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RevCo
Member

Pot 'n' Porn Party (PPP)
40 Posts
9/08

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:33PM

WTF bubble do you live in? I am sure a lot of performers don't feel 'super great' the day after they have a triple-anal, but they go back and do it again and again and again (bless them). Is that 'extreme'? If I watch a 'cosplay' movie where the woman dressed in the rabbit-suit feels degraded, then I guess that's extreme too?
I would suggest that if you really are concerned about bad influences on women, then you should do some research on the causes of anorexia and bulimia in this country... I don't think they came from porn but think about the twisting of young psyches to 'fit in' that can lead to death, that is obscene.

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 11:42PM

That's a common excuse but come on, the entire point is that IT IS degrading, otherwise what's the point? Those who like it should just admit they get off on degradation and stop making this weak argument.

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