Are American teenager more stupid than others? In Europe the drinking age is between 14 and 18. 16 in most countries. And we have less problems with drunken teens. How comes? Are Europeans just more clever and responsible? Or is it a question of education? European teens learn to handle alcohol by using it as they learn sex by doing it. Steve Holmes
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Sep 16 2007 : 3:32PM
@ Steve Holmes: American teens not only push the envelope of idiocy they lick it and cut their tongues on it. I was a teen in the US... EDIT: Properly addressing the post. Edited by - conquistador on 9/16/2007 3:34:37 PM
Steve, I'm sure you didn't miss the latest developments in German teen drinking behaviour. The German media was full of articles about comatose drinking on flatrate parties in the last months.
Steve No they're not They're parents are. In the desire for parents to stay young for as long as possible we force our kids to be children longer. We don't teach any responsibility or control of our vices or sex. You can't have a discussion about sex even among perverts.
Oh my God. You got me there. I've got morals and sensibility. When did these things become four-letter words? Edited by - hardware on 9/16/2007 10:36:42 PM
There's more than one definition for "sensibility". My dog also has sensibility. Morals? That's debatable. Since you want to take the right to choose away from someone who is fully capable of doing so, I'm not sure that would qualify as moral. The right to choose is the most basic human right of all.
Edited by - randomprecision on 9/16/2007 6:51:35 PM
Everything starts somewhere.But if you have kids, you can teach them that stealing is wrong. If you don't do that and someday, you get robbed or mugged, you can rest easily knowing you were part of the problem instead of part of the solution.Well, you sure don't sound very much like a social liberal so.....This whole argument is a straw man.Why should I keep reading when you aren't? Anyway. Every mistake is something that could potentially fuck someone for life. Not everyone deals with mistakes the same way. Not everyone deals with them well. It was an example of something that can be difficult to get past. Not everyone cares if people know they used to be a porn star. And eventually, if former porn stars don't let these fuckers get to them, they'll just have to get used to it. It's not their fault people are ignorant fucks who just can't get over the fact that people screw, genitalia exists and hey! Some people even like it! Holy shit who'd have thunk it?!?!. People are just going to have to learn that sex is normal. If they can't, you can do your part by letting them know they're the oddballs. Your whole argument is based upon emotion. Which is fine, as long as it's tempered with rationality. Here's a bit of common sense for you. People learn by experience. You don't just grow into wisdom. If you hide in a closet all your life, you won't learn jack and you'll be just as ignorant when you come out at 40 as you were when you went in. I keep saying this but people learn by making mistakes. I've seen it over and over. You can't tell people anything. Books don't really teach people much. It's mostly just useless information without experience. Raising the drinking age to 21 didn't solve a damn thing. It merely postponed the inevitable. College kids are no more "ready" to drink responsibly than those fresh out of high school. Why? Because it's their first experience with it. The fact remains that young people are going to make mistakes. Making them remain children until they're older will only postpone the time when it happens. When you have no frame of reference, you're probably going to fuck up a few times.Yeah. Since 17 year olds are allowed to drive and their "judgment centers" aren't fully developed yet, who knows what the hell they might do? They might just spontaneously start driving in circles or something. They have no idea what they're doing, after all. Hey. you're the one who said they don't know what's up.It isn't your problem either. Unless you're an ex porn star. In which case, you'd be blaming everyone else for your mistakes. Deflecting responsibility. I take responsibility only for those things which are within my power to control. And that is primarily myself. People who like teen porn (And I'll note once more that I rarely even watch it) only create the demand. They don't put a gun to somebody's head and force them to do it. It's a very simple decision. It's not hard. The decision whether or not to do porn is easier than most decisions 18 year olds have to make.It's not film. It's tape. And the fact remains that the other laws are horseshit too. They don't gamble in casinos. They gamble amongst themselves. They don't drink in bars. They drink at parties. It's not legal but they do it anyway. And you know why? Because they simply don't give a fuck. And you know why they don't give a fuck? Because they were never taught to. And it comes right back to bad parenting.And so do you. But my argument isn't so much that. I could live without it. My argument is that people have rights. And one of those is the right to determine one's own future. The right to fuck up if it's actually a mistake. The right to stick a fork in your own eye. Until people stop trying to run other people's lives and focus on what they can change, nothing ever will.
Edited by - randomprecision on 9/16/2007 7:51:42 PM
Yeah all that and peaches and cream too. But in the mean time, I'm not going to leave my house door open at night. That's the point you're not getting....so that must mean I'm a right wing religious nut! Very rational way to look at things. Explains some of your other views.Wrong. There are plenty of mistakes that are easily correctable and transient. Losing your college tuition at a Casino, not so much. That's why there are laws against teens engaging in that activity. You follow?Yeah, I'm sure that'll work when the girl, having blown her porn money by 20, can't hold on to a decent paying job at 25 years of age or keeps getting dumped by boyfriends because there are clips of her online gagging on cock. Of course Porn can make these girls plenty of money and secure their future if they have their wits about them. But at 18 years old, that is highly unlikely.Don't kid yourself for a second. If anyone is arguing based on emotion here, it's YOU. You're a naive idealist with a self-absorbed streak that is almost childlike. There is not an ounce of logic in the arguments you've put forth here. Just selfishness and emotions. Not trying to be mean. Just being brutally honest.And I keep saying that there are mistakes and then there are MISTAKES. Not every decision you make follows your for the rest of your life. But Porn does and so can gambling. And if we devise rules to protect teens against the latter, it's only logical that we do the same for the former. Now, you are either going out of your way to not grasp this simple logic, or you're just dense. Plain and simple.This IS a joke, right?...Seriously, it is. Right??The difference is, I don't want to jerk off at the expense of someone's life going to shit. I'm not quite that sociopathic yet. Obviously I'm in the minority. Edited by - ToneBone on 9/16/2007 11:00:30 PM
Except your "logic" is that you want to fuck 13 year olds. O' Enlightened one! But keep writing though. The more time you spend on here, the less time you'll be spending to look around for some poor minor to exploit.
Yes, porn is something that performers may come to regret doing. No, that is not something which will ruin their life. If you check, you'll find that I'm all for giving would-be performers all the information possible about porn as a profession, both in terms of short and long-term consequences. However, that's a far cry from having the hubris to dictate to them what they can and cannot do with their lives. And, no, I'm not particularly interested in watching 18 year olds in porn. I couldn't care less if they're doing it or not. I do care that you think you have the right to dictate what they do with their lives. Society has deemed them old enough to be considered adults, so best you be letting them get on with it. If you want to pitch your tent outside porno-land and preach the gospel according to ToneBone go for it, but as for passing your laws, you can fuck off. [typo] Edited by - hardware on 9/16/2007 11:33:58 PM
So don't. That's still a personal decision. And it doesn't have anything to do with telling other people what they can and can't do so go for it.Well, here's some more brutal honesty for you. I'm tired of you. I'm tired of arguing with you and frankly, I don't even care what you think. So I don't know why I bothered responding to you anyway. I should have known when I saw your first post what you were about. I've been all through this bullshit with a thousand people just like you. Exactly. Assembly line parrots. Go on ahead banging your head into walls. You're just gonna get a headache.
It is nice to see you are making this personal. I was actually avoiding posting any longer on this thread because frankly it is like smashing my head against a wall. You and I disagree, bottom line. I understand that is done so based on YOUR morals and sensibilities. Those are not four-letter words as you indicated. My interpretation of what is moral and sensible is different from yours apparently. As I said before, if you want to sit on your high horse and think I am scum because I have no problem with a LEGAL ADULT having the right to choose what they want to do with their own body, well again I say so be it. I really am past the point of caring more than a little bit about your opinion of me. This is one viewpoint of many I possess. It is, again, based upon legal statutes prevelant in my own country and therefore I am fully in the right to access and view this material and feel no moral trepidation in doing so. You do not like it or agree with it and I respect that as your point of view, but as far as I am concerned, that is where it stands. Edited by - jrsl76 on 9/17/2007 4:52:33 AM
Myspace fucking sucks the deleted me aagain 140 Posts 6/07
Posted - Sep 17 2007 : 7:59AM
@jrsl76 - I AGREE
LOOK, Reality is that a young 18 year old girl is still only growing to become a beautiful women getting to watch the girls grow scene after seen "That is if they choose to fallow their work". Even a sexy girl walking in the biz around 25,maybe a top 10 sexy lady. well.... She WONT be all that sexy to much longer. They wont grow anything more then BIGGER implants and fat lips. The beauty of an young ALL NATURAL 18 year old girl is priceless. And by the numbers of votes.... endless amount of viewers that watch porn.... both men AND women... of all ages... ALSO AGREE!!!!!!!!!!! To Edit a body????? well I think, If someone wants to change their body's while they are an active adult model, Then im sure they wanted to long before porn was ever in their life. I say that because 90% of the world have SOME kind of insecurity on their body alone. To be a adult???????????? 18 or 38, an adult is an adult, I have BILLS,MANY more responsibilities, BUT ALSO many more PRIVILEGES! So I chose this path I walk standing proud of what ever I may become, because it's MY PATH.... MY MISTAKES.... MY HAPPINESS.... AND LIFE!!!!!!!! Everyone else is only living in it. .:*:.Cassidy Essence.:*:. Edited by - hardware on 9/17/2007 8:16:25 AM Edited by - cassidy essence on 9/17/2007 8:34:46 AM Edited by - cassidy essence on 9/17/2007 8:38:06 AM
Erm... syntax? Even if a sexy girl... what? Or did you just mean a sexy girl around 25 won't be sexy much longer? Well, I can't agree with that. She may not pass as a teenager anymore but she can still be very sexy.
Myspace fucking sucks the deleted me aagain 140 Posts 6/07
Posted - Sep 17 2007 : 8:23AM
QUESTION FOR juha, please don't take it the wrong way im not trying to be rude honestly, But If your so against the Facts of Life in the porn world why do you bother posting? maybe fighting each and every opinion other then your own is only wasting your time. im sorry but for this day in age an 18 year old girl isn't very little. EVERYONE has a little room to grow, but on their time! When they feel ready!
You can learn much more in your life time as well, you wont stop learning until you die, nor will you stop making mistakes...
do you understand me? im sorry again im not trying to be rude, im trying to understand you.
A German proverb says: "Kindermund tut Wahrheit kund!" It means that a child innocently reveals the truth that the grown-ups rather remained undisclosed. I think we face the truth of this proverb right now.
Nobody has the hubris to dictate to them what they can and cannot do with their lives. We only suggest that they'll have to wait three years longer for their own benefit. The legal age of 18 wasn't sent from above. It isn't written in stone. And I don't think when society agreed on 18 it had porn in mind. The laws have to be adapted to the ever-changing circumstances, in this case the ever-growing porn industry and the internet.
You're arguing over semantics here.We already have the "hubris" to tell people to drive at certain speed limits, to wear a seat belt in the car, or to not gamble if they're under 21. But you wanna draw the line at THIS? That's based on nothing but YOUR selfish priorities. It has nothing to do with logic or reason.See above.Except these "adults" can't even drink a beer or put coins in a slot machine. But why bother explaining a point that you're not willing to get?"Fuck off"? LMAO. Yeah, it's a good thing we have "moderators" on this board.;)
If you intend to pass a law then there's no suggestion about it. You are telling them that you know better than they do and therefor you will dictate what they can and cannot do. In other words, you are arguing that they are children. I will agree that society has the right to restrict certain behavior, but only to the extent that such behavior endangers society. I have yet to see anything from you that suggests that is the case here.
@ToneBone: 1. Bullshit. 2.1 We do not set speed limits based upon one's age, ergo your analogy is flawed. 2.2 If you can find a post where I advocate not allowing adults under 21 to gamble then I will concede you have a point. Otherwise, kindly refrain from redefining my position to suit your argument. 3. See above. 4. Again, I am not compelled to be consistent with laws which I neither advocated nor support. 5. If you don't understand 'you can fuck off' then I'll be happy to explain it to you, as you seem to have it confused with a personal insult.
My position is about existing laws and the need for them to be consistent with logic. If you think there should be no laws to restrict teenage behavior, that is an entirely different discussion.You're right. I'd be crazy to take offense to being told I can fuck off. My bad.
"You can fuck off" is a strong rejection of your position, but if you find it personally insulting then I apologize. That doesn't mean I don't reject your position, because I do.
Absolutely. If government wants to make the availability of seatbelts mandatory in all automobiles that's fine with me. I might even be persuaded that their use should be mandatory for all minors, but if adults don't care about the additional risk incurred in not wearing them that's their lookout. I don't see a compelling interest for society to intervene. In other words, I reject the premise that a citizen exists to serve society. It's the other way around. As for making it illegal for adults under 21 to gamble, it's clearly discrimination based on nothing more than one's age. If I proposed a law against Germans gambling you'd be screaming discrimination from the rooftops, and rightly so.
There is a quite compelling interest: Reduction of costs for the health care system.There's a big difference between age on one hand and other attributes like citizenship, color, sex on the other hand.
This thread title has been greeting me for a week. I just have to say, what ISN'T so great about 18 year olds. For godsakes, they good so damn good. Young and fresh but over 18 is how HeyNow likes them.
So I assume you're opposed to the fact that it's illegal for 12 year olds to marry each other? That is after all a form of "age discrimination", no?That law would be stupid because there is no reason to believe that one race or ethnicity is more prone to making rash decisions. The same can't be said about teenagers vs. older age groups. Some of us speak as though they were never an adolescent! On a side note, since the Germans were brought up, I have to pay my compliments to our German friend Juha. It amazes me how well the Germans speak English, often without having ever set foot in an English speaking country. They usually have better spelling and grammar than most Americans, which then again is not saying much. Kudos my friend.
There are a great many things one could deny people under the guise of lowering health care costs so I suggest you be careful what you wish for. One day it will be your vices that are outlawed. Inherent in the 'equal protection' clause is the idea that no group of citizens should be singled out for special treatment under the law. While this hasn't stopped such laws from being passed, the excuse, or accepted reason, depending on your POV, is that such laws serve to right a previous imbalance. One can hardly much such claims regarding laws denying young adults access to booze or gambling. Such laws are only parental concerns writ large. Obviously, if you don't believe eighteen year olds can act like adults then you should raise the age of majority, instead of saying they're adults when it suits you, and that they're still kids when it doesn't.
Thanks. We try our best. English is mandatory from the 5th grade on. But the Oxford English I was taught at school was a deficient preparation for this board.
Twelve year olds are not considered adults, so please stop with the straw man arguments. This isn't high school, you know.Sufficient young adults have survived making rash decisions over the course of history for us to be here today, so I fail to be alarmed. As far as I am concerned, you and Juha are trying to manage outcome, while I am only concerned with providing knowledge and opportunity. After all, implicit in the opportunity to succeed is the opportunity to fail. To put it bluntly, barring mental incompetence, it is not your place to tell adults that you know better than they do and so will manage their affairs for them. While psychologists may agree that youth is a time of greater risk taking, I sincerely doubt you will get many to agree that such behavior amounts to mental incompetence.
Okay, let's raise the age of majority to 21. Although I don't understand why this isn't a discrimination based on age while excluding special risks for three years is a discrimination based on age. Edited by - juha on 9/17/2007 10:55:08 PM
But based on your logic, the very idea of a designated "adult age" is a form of discrimination. Who are we to say that a 17 year old is less of an "adult" than someone who's 18? That argument would be perfectly consistent with your reasoning.That's just silly. It's like saying people have been having unprotected sex for ages despite the Aids virus and we're still here, so I'll just throw my condoms away.I absolutely agree with psychologists about the greater risks, and speaking of straw men, I never brought up anything about "mental incompetence".
Wow. This topic really evokes a passionate response from people. I believe that most men here will never want to accept the possibility that the young teen trend is grotesque because it will say so much about them. If you know that something is harmful and wrong and you still become aroused then what does it mean about who you really are as a man? Most people would agree that there is a problem when guys want to see a girl go out of her way to look like a very young teen. There is a difference between being young and going out of the way to act so young that you appear to be underage. This B.S about seeing plenty of 18 year olds in pigtails is such a crock. We ALL know (except for the sickos in denial) that these women are made up to look like very youg minors under the age of 18. Period. Watch it and jerk off til your heart and hard-on are content but be aware of what you are looking at.
Hardware, in my opinion you have an all-too simplistic concept of freedom. From the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Article 2. "Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty." No word on age. Why? Because it wouldn't make any sense. Edited by - juha on 9/18/2007 7:14:23 PM
Its revealing that none of the 18 years supporters commented on cassidy's words "that a young 18 year old girl is still only growing to become a beautiful women". As I said before. She told us in her words what this whole argument is really about. Its not about freedom, discrimination, whatsoever. Its about the appeal of teenyboppers to some customers. And its about protecting teenyboppers from an industry that gives customers whatever they want, no matter how sick their wishes are.
Hardcore Bangers 2 - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Sep 16 2007 : 3:25PM
