I remember The Hitch-Hiker series. BTW Max is on parole. I believe that a person on parole is subject to potential re-incarceration without even a prior court hearing. Anyone who doesn't catch my drift could spend some time Googling terms like federal, parole, violation, and incarceration and check out the hits.
Mike Adrinao is just a Max Clone. You can look at his movies and tell he gets most of his ideas from Max. Max went too far with his movies and thus wound up in jail. I think Max should have just stayed on the beaten path instead of pissing and trying to hurt the actresses.
Realtip; I would imagine that there are folks in the industry who are worthy of admiration. I live in the east coast of the USA so I don't have ready access to the industry. John Stagliano is a dignified and genuinely nice man who has far more patience with fans that I would. Joey Silvera is absolutely the salt of the earth. Took time to answer some stupid fanboi question that I had about Desiree Cousteau and is overall just a really nice and personable guy. Karen/Tricia was heroic juggling child care duties with helping her husband defend himself against the Federal government's attempt to destroy him based upon spurious accusations. I find it easy to answer that question in the affirmative, and that is based upon two hot summer days in our national capital. I believe that if I knew these folks even better I would meet more industry folks that I would like and admire.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Feb 27 2011 : 8:31PM
^I agree that there are people in the pornographic industry deserving of respect and appreciation for what they do in providing entertainment for us to enjoy. I agree that the three individuals you named are among that group of worthy people, as I also had the opportunity to meet the three of them. Briefly meeting them was certainly a pleasant and delightful experience, even under the obviously stressful circumstances at the time. I may also have seen you there, but just didn't know who you were at the time. In addition, I can provide a whole list of other performers and pornographers who are deserving of the same gratitude from pornviewers such as myself. Indeed, I consider Max Hardcore to be deserving of the same respect and appreciation for what he provided, and for his willingness to defend his right to do it rather than easily capitulate to regressive political scare tactics.Except for the fact that Mike is much younger, more physically endowed, doesn't fist or piss on anybody, doesn't dress the girls in young outfits and pigtails, doesn't have them all address him as "Mister," etc., then you might be right that they're clones, in the same way that Usher is a clone of Garth Brooks just because they both use a microphone. Who says only one guy in porn can use a speculum? This is not to say that there is anything wrong with imitating Max Hardcore. There is nothing wrong with it. They both are also talented at what they do.In other words, all porn should be the same and no one should ever try to do anything new or different, right? That's the problem with porn now. Everyone wants to do the same things that everyone else is doing. There's also no such thing as "going too far" when you're protected by the freedom to go as far as you want. Using that backwards logic, adult entertainment wouldn't have gotten as far it is today.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 27 2011 : 9:51PM
Don't blame Max, blame the girls who sign the releases!
For the most part I agree with you, Roscoe Fuji, but in cases where a young woman new to porn may have been led under false pretenses with respect to Max's content, executing a release may have been done under duress. To be fair to Max, the trial revealed under many circumstances BTS footage revealed that the Max show was an act involving consenting parties. OTOH I have read plausible accounts that some young women might have been deceived. Nonetheless, the Federal obscenity prosecution did not involve issues of actress consent (in fact the defense presented exculpatory evidence of consent) and MAx has never been formally charged with any crime or civil action involving lack of consent, so IMO due process requires giving him a slight benefit of the doubt (at least legally).
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 27 2011 : 10:19PM
Well, if she felt the release was signed under duress, she could have still gone to the police immediately afterwards, but I'm sure she went right to the bank to cash the check killing any argument/case she might have had.
Nobody went to the police, so folks who say that Max/Paul deserved incarceration as a matter of "rough justice" are disrespecting basic notions of the rule of law. Or in practical terms, we will never get anywhere near the truth of these matters, so while I am skeptical that Max/Paul is any type of good guy, condemning him to prison without any factual basis or legal process seems absurdly contrary to any notion of a free society.
alot of times the release is signed before,they actually shoot the scene. second what models have complained about is Max throwing in sex acts during the scenes that were not agreed upon by the agents like pissing on them in a middle of a bj scene. Now if your a girl and you are already on set,andalready have been filming,are you rally gonna throw away a pay check. to put it in real life examples,lets say you get a job at UPS you agree to move 50lbs boxes, 5 hours into your first day they have you moving 10lb boxes,and cleaning the floor. You have already turned down other job offers,and spent money geting to work do you quit and report them to the labor department,you could and most ppl dont,this happens to workers everyday,and its wrong on the employers part in porn or other industries.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 2:45PM
First off, UPS and porn/possible duress/abuse allegations are two different things, so schlepping boxes at UPS does not remotely compare to a Max scene. Secondly, numerous producers/directors have already said on this site that the release is signed after the scene is shot and just before the check is handed over, so you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Really? Are you sure? I've seen numerous Behind The Scenes clips where the performers are signing the release as the girl(s)is getting her hair and make-up done. In my mind it wouldn't make sense to get a signature after the scene is shot. What if the girl is underage and you don't find out until after the scene has been shot? What if you spend all that time shooting the scene and the girl gets mad at you over something and holds your work hostage by not signing? what if the girl says she's not going to sign unless the director cuts a certain part out of the movie? In Hollywood unless it's hidden camera type thing they all get releases signed before scenes get shot.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 10:13PM
If the model doesn't sign the release, then she's not going to be paid. Thus, it makes no difference whether she signs the release before or after the scene if she wants to be paid for it. Plus, the director Chico Wang once said that he would always have the girls sign the release after the scene because that was the way he preferred to do it. Considering he was one of the craziest guys making porn who would often having girls doing wild and extreme acts, it goes to show that a director is not going to feel the need to "trick" a girl into signing a release before the scene. Either way, she's going to have to sign it at some point if she wants her paycheck.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 10:39PM
1. She doesn't get paid. 2. If she's underage, you burn the film and run the other way quickly. 3. Porn and hidden camera Hollywood shows are two different things.
Except for the fact that Mike is much younger, more physically endowed, doesn't fist or piss on anybody, doesn't dress the girls in young outfits and pigtails, doesn't have them all address him as "Mister," etc., then you might be right that they're clones, in the same way that Usher is a clone of Garth Brooks just because they both use a microphone. Who says only one guy in porn can use a speculum?
Click to expand
Max did dress up his women like young girls and he played with the pedo theme but Mike does the same shit but uses flip flops and Spray painted walls. Mike is no fucking where even close to Max when it comes to preforming. When Max did the Anal Adventures films he was great in those. The movies were cutting edge and changed the industry. Mike movies are okay but not even close to cutting edge. My comparisons are to the young Max not the old werid man now on parole. Plus Mike is on his way to wacko land...Just take a look at his newest release. A fucking prolasped colon...Yea that is Mainstream porn...Mike is a fucking lunatic and a copy cat. Dude does nothing that Max did not start and he has no original ideas. 90 percent of his movies suck.
realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 11:42PM
More sanity in this conversation would be nice.
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Rubberhole Deactivated User
256 Posts 2/10
Posted - Mar 1 2011 : 9:32AM
Do you like the porn that is produced today and that you jerk off too? Well, Max Hardcore is one of the six producers that revolutionized content in modern day porn. By proxy, he should be a hero to 95% of male porn viewers.
Thank you... Only a blind man can't see that Mike Adrinao is a Max Hardcore Clone. Max did some good things and he did some bad things. Be fair and give them man his credit. He made Anal porn a norm in the industry. He started the no vag only anal stuff. Nobody was even thinking on that level. He started the shaved bald pussies. When I see clones It pisses me off cause they are just copy cats.
So, it was him that did! Put him back to jail, please :p
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Midnight Max Deactivated User
And put an end to the Chicago-style Thuggery 678 Posts 3/08
Posted - Mar 1 2011 : 5:59PM
This growing necessity to film prolapsed colons as a part of "erotica" is sure to land some producer/director in prison or fighting for their freedom with every cent they have- strange how Evil Angel just got through a very rough legal ordeal and yet seem to be raring to jump back into the fray. I'm glad John & Tricia made it through that most recent legal bullshit with their freedom- I considered myself "on their side" and thought the charges were bullshit. I'll be taking more of a "play with fire, you get burned" type of stance when the next lawsuit gets handed down. Pushing the envelope over the edge is what will destroy gonzo porn- why certain adult filmmakers seem so intent to do it as quickly as possible is beyond me.
Rented a few Hitch-hiker tapes back in the day, and have seen a bit of what he did in its aftermath, but as someone who started watching porn in the 70s he didn't revolutionize anything IMO, had seen it all before, even the pigtails and teenage girl dresses were out in the 70s loops.
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David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User
Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10
Posted - Mar 1 2011 : 6:57PM
Absolutely correct. Max stole alot of his style from 70's loops and Europorn. I'll give him credit for being smart enough to do it,though.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 1 2011 : 7:19PM
Sorry, all of Max's 'innovations' appeal to certain porn viewers but they are hardly in 95 percent of videos. Adriano is the director closest to him and his style turns off as many as it turns on.
We can agree the nobody knows who invented Anal Sex. That one is not up for dispute. Max did start the trend to shave the women bald and then fuck the up the ass. Zane holds the right to the Anal Adventures series and he was doing that while others companies were fucking hairy pussies.
Adriano is a total ass man. Max never just ate out a chicks asshole. They differ on that trend. Now Mike did not invent eating asshole. That goes to Jamie Gillis. Mike seems to pattern himself after the weirdos of porn.
I don't think they said that Max invented shaved pussies and anal - Hell, Linda Lovelace did both in Deep Throat - but that he popularized them. I doubt both of those conceits. I think body hair grooming has been trending that way for decades, and people have been sticking things in their anuses since it occured to them that they were there.
I have to take your word for that cause I was not heavy into porn until around 1996.....I never knew what a pervert was until I saw jamie Gillis eating a chicks ass out while jerking himself off. Shit scared the hell out of me. Didn't think anyone would enjoy doing that to someone that much.
apologies for monster post! what I am about to write may amount to nothing at all, as I have never watched a max Hardcore film. Anything I heard about his shit for the past 15 years suggested that I would find it deeply disturbing and thus un-masturbateable. As a point of reference, I have seen Rocco's shit, and dislike it deeply for the thuggish way he and his entourage treat women (although I believe it when almost all of the ladies say they're into what he does; just that I don't dig it). I have recently however bought and gone through Anal Overdose: the amount of chicks therein that I admire necessitated this. I am in an Ashli Orion phase now, and her performance in the movie is transfixing. I agree that it is strange that Stagliano would jump right back into marketing of the type of material that that the DoJ (was that the agency that messed with EA?) took him to the cleaners for. I will also note that Mr Adriano's fondness for extracting distended, prolapsed rectums from the women working for him is quite distracting: in several of the trailers of films subsequent to AO, it looks as if the women's brains have been transferred down from their crainiums so that it sticks out of their assholes. This kills the wood of one porn fan whose interest in anal affairs is all-encompassing. Prolapsed stink stars are fascinating, but not hawt, to me. The human body can do that? wow! but, in light of my anal fixation, it's easy to get over that, since the other ways the likes of Amy Brooke, Francesca Lé, Ms Orion, Kelly Divine, Bobbi starr, Jennifer white, etc get down in Adriano's films mean that he and stagliano will be receiving more $$$ from this brokeass masturbator. and the main reason why those guys will get my $$$ is that in my view, despite adriano's speculum- and prolapse- centric proclivities (can't say whether this is a market-based calculation or a genuine fixation), the guy treats the women in a gentlemanly way in the course of plumbing their depths with his big french cock. Certainly this is true relative to Rocco, other euro-thugs, and many many American cocksman. I can't be sure, but based on Anal Overdose, it seems the guy knows what to do to get the best of out of these women who, for reasons I don't presume to understand but certainly hope entails their own authentic pleasure, lavish vocal, unhinged attention on each other's assholes and his dick. He doesn't make it about him, doesn't make a lot of noise: he knows that the point is these women, women of the sort I don't ever expect to encounter, are having raunchy, nasty fun with their assholes and mouths. So again, from my limited understanding, given that I refuse to watch Max's shit, I don't see the Max=adriano comparison. Enlighten me. similarly, I don't give a good goddamn that Mr. Little was an innovator. In my view, there are multiple examples throughout the history of creative/aesthetic development, that the person that does something first is not necessarily the best. and, sight unseen, my understanding is that Little's films were not premised on female pleasure, but on male pleasure derived from female humiliation. and while, from what i understand, vis-a-vis the rule of law, he was treated unjustly, there are manifold precedents in the history of not only this country but the totality of human history, that just cuz you can do something doesn't mean you should. my morality is not everyone else's, but I would strongly suggest that anyone masturbating to baldfaced humiliation should think deeply about their own desires (I have beat-off fantasies that some would think equivalent, morally speaking, to humiliation, and I worry about it). y'all can correct me if so inclined, but is it not fundamental that Mr Little made his fortune on appealing to the desires of men masturbating to the degradation of women? anyone likely to read these words, on a message board that is frequented by people and performers that often seem thoughtful, I think would recognize that much pornography, while created with male libido in mind, is not exclusively premised on humiliation. I will add that, although it is not loudly proclaimed, women consumers are incrementally being heard re: aopreciation of fukk flicks. Cameron Diaz said so recently, and I have watched porn with a few curious, occasionally nasty girlfriends (this did not always end well). This tells me that lots of people like to watch nasty hot fucking, and not necessarily that lots of people like to watch women experiencing pain, terror and inhumane treatment of their holes with not only cum, but vomit, shit, male fists and blunt instruments. This is what the people who hate us, the performers and the consumers, think of us. Are they wrong or not? part of me admires that Little went down swinging, but another notes that he could have cooled it. Life ain't fair. Even if one plays by the rules as articulated in an allegedly free society, one should recognize when one is playing with fire. Maybe Mr little has no regrets, and he made a point that he thought was worth making, even if the cost was him going to prison. I doubt it. P.S.: I wonder if the general population of the facility treated Max with respect? it is well known that the outcasts in the correctional eco-system tend to be rapists and child -molesters. Would they be fans of his films? Or would they object to his fetishization of non-consensual and underage themes to the tune of beating the shit out of him?
being that you used the word "precis" and that I can infer from other posts that you are intelligent, I am confident that you can understand and then respond substantively to what I wrote, if you like.
OK, I'll provide a precis… My reading of Mike adriano's films: men and women enjoy a number of varieties of anal sex. a man most likely to be considered attractive by many women, and multiple women that I admire have nasty sex. me and other dudes cum buckets. my admittedly incomplete but reasonably informed understanding of Mr Little's films: a woman's pleasure is irrelevant; in fact pronounced discomfort on the woman's part would be preferred. Furthermore, what matters is that the representation of female humiliation via brutal treatment by a man (an evidently vicious middle aged man with a small pecker) is presented so that men watching elsewhere can cum buckets. did I get that right? if not, lemme know. seriously.
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David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User
Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10
Posted - Mar 2 2011 : 6:38PM
Yes, I have read interviews with Max where he explains quite carefully that he is genuinely interested in dehumanizing the girls. He is, without doubt,to my mind, a genuine misogynist. Whether he was always that way, who knows? Maybe he had some bad experiences in life? I will say I liked some of the scenes he shot in the 90's which weren't so blatantly abusive but were harder-edged than most of what was around in American porn. He has also stated that he wanted to make properly "dirty" movies as,I suspect, he was dissatisfied with much of the sterile stuff that dominated the industry in the 80's and 90's which is a viewpoint I can agree with. He just seemed not to know when to stop and the abuse became the focus rather than the sex.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 2 2011 : 6:51PM
Back to the OP, sounds like Max is in a half-way house right now but he's not communicating with pretty much anyone in porn, or at least they're not saying if he is.
VeronicaMoser; thank you very much for your excellent response. David C; I wonder to what extent Little's Max H routine was an act designed to sell his product?
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Mar 2 2011 : 7:41PM
It's not strange at all. It's commendable. What would be the point of going through all that trouble and expense to defend our freedoms of expression only to end up being intimidated after you've succeeded? Might as well have not done it at all. Also, what's the point of having rights if we're going to be afraid to exercise them?That's unfortunate. It should not be beyond any of us to understand that the people who produce pornography for our entertainment and enjoyment need our fullest support everytime the opponents of freedom decide to demonstrate a mockery of justice. Not just the first time, or not just when it happens to someone we like, or not just in the most famous cases, but everytime. Failure to do so everytime places all our freedoms in jeopardy. Furthermore, it's sad that we even have to have these types of debates here. A forum like this should be the one place where everyone should be in agreement that legal pornographers have the same rights to freedom of expression as all other citizens. If the people who watch and support porn can't even agree on that simple fact, then how in the world do you expect the people who want to see porn destroyed to have any respect at all for our rights? Interestingly, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled today that those horrible Westboro people are protected by the First Amendment. I don't disagree with the verdict. They are indeed protected. But it is a major reflection of the double standards that exist in our society regarding sex. Basically... Rallying at Funerals to Express Hatred & Exploit Peoples' Grief = 1st Amendment Freedom Selling Legal Porn to Legal Adults = Severe Punishment as Violent Criminal If the First Amendment is strong enough to protect some of the most hateful and degenerate bigots in the world, then why is it not strong enough to protect hardcore pornographers like Max Hardcore? We can tell mourning parents that they must tolerate the rights of attention-seeking hatemongers showing up to disrepect the memories of their children, but we can throw a man in jail for four years just for distributing legal adult porn, putting him on the same level as violent felons such as murderers, rapists, and robbers. In other words, if you have anything to do with sex, then the First Amendment doesn't apply to you. What a backwards country we live in sometimes. From an article on the case:If only, as a nation, we can learn to apply these same principles to everyone across the board, including to people who produce pornography that people may find offensive, then it would be a great way to prove that sanity really does exist.
Frankly, the majority seems to want it all taken away. Sometimes people get what they want. Sometimes it's for the best. If they want tyranny, let them have it. People never seem to be quite as happy with oppression once they have a boot on their throat as they thought they'd be when they asked for it.
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David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User
Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10
Posted - Mar 2 2011 : 8:18PM
"I wonder to what extent Little's Max H routine was an act designed to sell his product?" Well, I recall in this interview (in VICE magazine ca. 1999) he was quite matter-of-fact about his low opinion of the performers. Based on some of the footage I saw from a British documentary called "The Dark Side of Porn"(rolls eyes) he's not very concerned about the girl's emotions or state of mind when trying to convince them to do a scene they find objectionable. Yes, the filmakers had an agenda but the fact that he didn't think his verbal "persuasion" techniques shouldn't be filmed would suggest that he really believes that female suffering/discomfort is entertaining.
Or perhaps he wanted to put on a REALLY convincing performance that there is nothing fake about a Max Hardcore production in the interest of selling more product?
Max and Mike Adrianno have almost nothing in common, apart from liking to fuck girls in the ass. Max is into degredation, pissing, puking, and a very specific 'little girl' look - that's his signature style, none of which are big things for Adrianno. I've seen Adrianno use the speculum a bit, but even that stays shy of Max's habit of getting girls to slurp up the piss/cum through a plastic tube from their speculated ass. As to how much of the Max Hardcore character you see on screen is real, and how much is for the camera...I don't know, and I've seen a lot of Max films. It's obviously not all an act - that style of degrading sex is obviously something that Max is into personally or he wouldn't do it, but I've certainly seen numerous occasions of him encouraging a girl to act more distressed than she actually is. Some girls look like they genuinely are in over their heads, whilst others are more blase until Max prompts them verbally to cry, or make some noise. Why? Because he knows it makes for a 'better' scene. Yes - Max walks on a thin line with this sort of material - but at the end of the day it's consensual sex between two adults, and if you think someone deserves to go to prison for filming that then you haven't got a leg to stand on when someone comes along and wants to ban the sort of porn YOU happen to like watching. Personally I hope he manages to go back to producing the sort of nasty shit he was best at - but whether he is too old, or even able to do that without moving to Europe remains to be seen. Edited by - davebowman on 3/3/2011 3:55:03 AM
Max Hardcore @ AEBN
Posted - Feb 27 2011 : 4:20PM