The issue of whether there was consent or not is complicated. I think anyone interested in this topic should watch this documentary entitled Hardcore from Great Britain. The filmmaker follows a porn actress as she makes her way through the porn industry in Los Angeles, and unfortunately for her, she winds up in Max Hardcore's house. At what point does this "consent" become a rape. It certainly changed my mind about what is actually going on in these movies. If you watch this and still think the actresses are consenting then you are just kidding yourself. The documentary Hardcore featuring Max Hardcore
OK. I couldn't get that video to work but I looked the segment up on Youtube because I'm tired of hearing about this documentary and not having the benefit of having seen what people are talking about. So. Here are my immediate thoughts... 1. The part where Max is talking to the girl after she walks off is a side of Max I personally haven't seen before. You may not know but I'm not a fan of Max's work. I simply have given him the benefit of the doubt. 2. I will agree that at that point, he seemed very creepy and maybe even psychotic. However.... 3. The impression I got from just watching this part of the documentary once was that I think this girl knew exactly what was up all the way up to that point. She was given the opportunity to leave repeatedly before Max even got there. It was very obvious that she could have walked off anytime. She knew what was up. And she even stated her opinion that his movies were abuse before anything happened. She clearly stayed there and waited for him to do what he does because I think she had an agenda to push. She knew what he was going to do and waited for him to do it so she could freak out for the camera (I couldn't say if it was real or not). That's my opinion of it. She was clearly leading him on before the sex started. Laughing and joking with him and acting like everything was fine. She told him she had limits in a very playful and joking kind of way (as though she was playing along with the role of proper English schoolgirl) without really telling him what they were or making it clear that she was dead serious about it. I don't know if he understood or not but he could be forgiven for thinking she was messing around with him. 4. Max should have simply stopped cold and ended the scene when she flipped out on him. I don't blame him for not knowing what she was up to but at the point when a woman says "stop" most people will agree that this is supposed to be where it ends. He had been in the business long enough and he was certainly old enough that he should have known better and frankly, seemed completely out of touch with reality when he was trying to coax her into finishing the scene. The way he was talking to her there was just bizarre and he really did seem to be off in his own world. 5. Still, I find it implausible that when they were filming this documentary, they just happened to get lucky enough to catch this incident on film. I don't know how common it was on his sets because obviously, there wasn't a supposedly objective camera crew there all the time. What I personally think is that they staged this thing (with or without the girl's complete cooperation and knowledge) and Max fell right into their trap. I find it simply bizarre that Max didn't seem to have any idea how he appeared to the camera that was recording him for an audience that may or may not watch porn at all. Edited by - randomprecision on 7/19/2011 7:31:06 AM
wouldn't filming be a violation of his release? I'm sure the judge put restrictions on his porn career. Like when a hacker gets released from prison they can't go near computers or risk being thrown back in the slammer. why would this be any different? www.BlackMarketxxx.com
People tell lies my friend. Some people like publicity. I don't like publicity. 674 Posts 5/11
Posted - Jul 19 2011 : 2:59PM
A judge can put any restriction or forbid you to do anything they choose. The question is can it be enforced? I know Max has filmed in Europe and filmed in Brazil. I would take a guess if Max does film again he would return to Brazil. Not only do they have a vast market of readily available beautiful girls, but the authorities there would not be cooperative about enforcing US laws or extradite him. That's what I would do, go to Brazil, no point in putting up with all the bullcrap in the States.
I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt a judge has the right to impose a future "no filming" restriction. Seems to me that would violate his rights. He was prosecuting for obscene material, not the filming of adult material per se, so to forbid any filming in the future would to me seem illegal in and of itself. That'd be akin to someone arrested for street drag racing and the judge orders him never to drive a car again. Don't think so.
People tell lies my friend. Some people like publicity. I don't like publicity. 674 Posts 5/11
Posted - Jul 19 2011 : 4:31PM
The judges are tyrants and do whatever they want. Just to illustrate a case separate from Max Hardcore, if you are found guilty of possessing child pornography on your computer and your computer is seized, do you have a right in the future to use a computer again? There is no such right. You are ordered that use of a computer is forbidden. I can't relate to this topic personally but see this going on all the time in the news.
Thanks for your response. What concerns me (if what we are seeing is real and not staged) is that this is how Max acts when he knows there is an "objective" camera filming him. How would he act if there wasn't a documentary camera filming? I would only guess he would be even more unhinged. From other accounts I have heard about Max (for instance, how he treated Sierra Sinn) then the way it works is, an agent - like Dick Nasty - convinces a performer to do the video with a mild warning that it might get a bit rough, and then there is a signing ceremony where the model signs away her civil rights (apparently). Then as the scene progresses the antics get cruder and more ridiculous. If the model tries to shy away then he starts threatening, and insulting the model, while the agent passively looks on. If the model wants to walk away from the "hundreds and hundreds" of dollars then she has to continue, or possibly face the possible threat of his arsenal, crew and dobermans. I believe what we see in this documentary is not staged because Max himself was embarrassed by it and made a public apology and never released the video. How exactly do these producers convince women to do these things? Is it really surprising that there is force involved at some point? How else could they do it? The money is chump change. It won't surprise me if he's back behind bars in a few years and the world will be better off. But I appreciate your thoughtful response. But why are people defending this guy?
People tell lies my friend. Some people like publicity. I don't like publicity. 674 Posts 5/11
Posted - Jul 19 2011 : 10:40PM
I will try not to derail this thread as you are trying your best to get me to do. If you are truly interested, go read an article of someone convicted of such a crime on a simple Google search and then what the judge imposes during their sentencing.
You may/may not have a point on the child porn/computer aspect. I don't have info to refute that but I would like to read an article to that affect. I will comment that that would be impossible with a capital I to enforce though. What I will say though, is that assuming you are right, child porn and even Max's conviction for obscenity, are light years away, so the implication a judge could withhold future rights for workage, at least in Max's case, I would find highly unlikely.
[/quote] But I appreciate your thoughtful response. But why are people defending this guy? [/quote] It's really quite simple. His charge wasn't worthy of imprisonment. Regardless of what you think of his material and the person himself, prosecuting him for obscenity for his material goes down a slippery slope that I don't want to see this country go down. It's absurb and a joke and the majority of this country I think, understand this. Based of the actions you say he implored, charges to those effects could have been brought forth, and then he could have been tried for that. Even if a performer was intimidated on set at the time, if enough of these cases came forward, eventually he could have been charged with this behavior. But obscenity on the released content....no. He's worthy of defense simply because of this, and this alone. What is past, is prologue.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 20 2011 : 1:58AM
Word from an industry insider who has reportedly spoken to Max since his release has said that Max has no interest in returning to porn to shoot the type of porn he shot before. After all, who can blame him? Not only would spending more than three years in prison on a frivolous charge have a crushing effect on most people, but Max also isn't as young as he used to be. Most guys his age would have retired by now anyway, let alone still be up for shooting the same type of porn Max used to shoot. What I don't get is why no one else in the industry has since stepped up to take Max's place as an imitator. It isn't because no one else wants to do it. The only other option has to be that no one wants to end up having to go through the same ordeals that Max did. Thus, the opposition has successfully done its work. Since one of the goals of prosecuting Max and other pornographers was to intimidate the rest of the industry into shutting the fuck up, getting in line, and doing as they're told like good little children, it has obviously accomplished that goal. Now onto taking down the rest of the industry by doing things like requiring condoms.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jul 20 2011 : 3:19AM
And regarding the 'why has no one taken his place' question. I agree that his prosecution was intended to intimidate porn producers from producing that kind of extreme content, that's hardly a secret they openly talked about that before and during the prosecution of Max, Rob Black etc. But I don't think anyone has 'stepped up' because no one was doing the same thing before Max, while Max was around or after Max went to jail. Even the most extreme European content was different in tone from Max's material. Max was doing what Max was interested in. He found a small niche that worked for him but there's little evidence there's some gold mine to be found producing his kind of content. Rob Black who also produced similar content was bouncing cheques long before he was prosecuted too. But me and realtip have had this debate before...
There may be a sizable market for it but even so, a person would have to be crazy to try and "mine" it after what happened to Max. Frankly, I was surprised he got off as easy as he did when they had the opportunity to really throw the book at him.
I didn't mean that Max himself was in on it. I meant that I believe the people who made the documentary staged this incident and Max fell into the hole they dug for him. The fact that he was embarrassed by it or apologized doesn't really prove anything. The fact remains that..... 1. These people appeared to have set out to make a documentary that would reflect poorly on the porn industry. How surprising is it that they got exactly what they were looking for one way or another? 2. We still don't know what went on behind the scenes when the cameras weren't rolling and that's why I take everything I see on a screen with a grain of salt. The camera is there because the people operating it want to send a particular message. Or, to put it another way, they usually have an agenda. The term "documentary" is therefore a bit of a misnomer. They're not really there to document reality. They're there to put their own spin on it. Basically, I'm saying I don't trust these people. I'll have to look and see who actually made this documentary (and sometimes there's not a lot of info) but I wouldn't be surprised to find they were prejudiced against porn before they ever shot one frame of this.This is what I have a problem with. Your assumption that every porn producer works the way Max apparently did when you don't seem to have no evidence of that other than your assessment of the girls. That they wouldn't do these things just for money. Why wouldn't they? They're porn performers. That's the job. This girl in this documentary played it up like she was going to do the job and then lost it in the middle of the scene. I wouldn't doubt there are a few shady characters in porn at any given time. But the vibe I'm getting from you is that you're trying to demonize the whole industry based on a lot of assumptions.I'm just calling it like I see it. I'm not defending him as much as I'm criticizing the people who made this documentary. You asked me to watch the documentary. I was curious about it because I keep hearing about it. TBH, I was expecting something a lot worse than what I saw. If I had not seen the way this girl deliberately put herself in this situation when she already had a certain opinion of his work and had been warned several times and told she was free to leave, I would have been totally on her side. I still don't like what I saw and think Max was behaving very strangely. I'm not defending that. You can go back and read my other post again if you like and show me where I'm defending that. I just think a porn contract is complicated enough without having girls going back and forth on consent and not saying what they mean. I am only "defending" him insomuch as I still wasn't there, none of us were there when the cameras weren't rolling and it's patently obvious that they set out to make him look bad. Finally, I didn't watch the whole documentary. Only the part that contained the incident in question. I don't know if this is a free documentary or something you have to buy. If I can find a legal copy for free, I'll eventually watch the whole thing. I don't know if the Max portion was a self-contained incident or if the whole thing was about him so it's possible/likely I missed something.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jul 20 2011 : 6:03AM
We've debated this before RP, but one last time... I agree that the people who made this doc were probably out to make the industry look bad but what could they do to make Max act the way he does when he's harassing and verbally abusing that woman? Did they have their hands up his ass and he's a literal meatpuppet?
I don't think they made him do anything. But I still don't understand why he didn't seem to grasp the seriousness of the situation. Like I said, that was a side of him I haven't really seen before and don't really know what to think of it. And again, the main reason I give him the benefit of the doubt is that this is a movie on a screen and I have always been leery of believing everything I see on a screen. Otherwise I would be convinced that gaping assholes are (almost) always (nearly) clean as a whistle and George Bush was really capable of running a country.
^ At least the people at Facial Abuse don't essentially dare the government to go after them shipping content to questionable jurisdictions that are known for prosecuting porn producers. They key to avoiding prosecution is to keep it on the internet, there local values do not apply (so far). Don't get me wrong, I think Max Hardcore and the people producing Facial Abuse go way too far and I am a kinky person myself. At least I don't fuck up people's faces like Clara Beau's was filming for FA, that kind of shit does not even turn me on! A safeword is also used in kinky sex play, all the way from simple bondage to heavy caning (standard in the industry from what I have seen is RED for a complete stop and YELLOW to stop the scene for comforting and discussion of how to continue) -- which there was no evidence that the FA producers had that (and obviously Max did not follow the rules on that either even if he had one). Even Insex had safewords in their filming and their reputation was harsh in and of itself.
I'm certainly not trying to demonize the industry. I enjoy kinky porn. I can't stand porn that is boring, unless the model is really hot, like Lacey Duvalle. Why do you think I know so much about Max? I've watched a lot of his stuff and for a time it turned me on. But I was curious about what was going on behind the scenes. That is how I found this documentary (I'm not sure why the link doesn't work but if you look up Hardcore Documentary and Stephen Walker you should be able to find it). This particular actress first links up with Dick Nasty, who takes her around to all of the extreme porn producers, like Khan Tusion. The documentary filmmaker claims to be a fan of porn, who was quite curious to learn about the industry, but only ended up being horrified. You may have missed the part of the video when the actress is hoping to explain to Paul Little her limits. Instead he just shoves his cock up her ass before the video shoot even begins. The documentary filmmaker then has to contemplate if he just filmed a rape. Was it a rape? There are other accounts of Paul Little-cock that seem similar. These women are not usually in a position of power when they make these films, so to just assume that they can just get up and walk out, or prosecute him if something illegal went down, is to assume quite a lot about what their position in society is at the time they make the film - or how they feel about their safety at that particular moment. Women don't make these kinds of films when their lives are going well. The internet is full of stories about Paul Little-prick and how he treats women. At some point you have to realize that something really shady was going on. Who wants to have someone throw up in their mouth over and over? You may be right that this particular actress may have been in a better position of power. After all she did have a camera crew of her own. But what about the majority of them that did not? I wouldn't lump all porn producers in this category. However, Paul Little is very similar to a few others that push the limits of the law. It's not a surprise to me that he finally went too far. He was testing the limits... and he found them.
Well it's hard to tell sometimes. You only have a few posts listed and you're talking about "these producers" in your post. It's hard to tell if you're just talking about Max or whether you mean everyone. I don't recall ever speaking to you before so I know nothing about you.Well if that is the case, you might want to learn not to let people exploit your emotions in order to help them push their anti-porn agenda. Again, these people are not really interested in anything Max may have done that was wrong. If they were, they would have investigated that and charged him with something else if they found any evidence of criminality. They were only interested in an obscenity conviction for the precedent. And that's exactly what they got. That's why it appears to you that people are defending Max. They're protesting the way Max's behavior has been used to push an unconstitutional obscenity law and the way so many (supposed) porn fans have been so effortlessly manipulated to mindlessly fall into line to support it.Have you thought about how (figuratively speaking) the planets had to line up for this guy to get all this on camera? How did he get all of this to coincide if he didn't plan it in any way, shape or form? Even if this was SOP on Max Hardcore sets, what would have happened if the girl went to Max's house, was totally cool with everything, had a grand time, collected her check and left? Absolutely nothing. It would have been relatively boring, wouldn't it? Everything goes fine and everybody leaves relatively happy? That's not hard-hitting drama, is it? What are documentary filmmakers really after? Reality? The truth? What about acclaim? Attention? Their names in the headlines? You think a guy who's going to film a documentary about the porn business hasn't noticed that nobody wants to hear about the porn business unless it's something that confirms their prejudices? Do you think he had any intention of making the porn business look good in his film? What if Max had just shut everything down and ended it right there when she flipped out? What if he'd been completely professional about it? That wouldn't have been very interesting, would it? So there's another thing that has to happen just so in order for this documentary to have this disturbingly dark edge to it. How was it known ahead of time that the girl would flip out and Max would do exactly what he did? Or do you believe he just got lucky on all counts and had no idea what would happen? Really?Why? She says she doesn't like this stuff. Why would she intentionally go around to all the extreme producers if she wants nothing to do with it? She gets together with a guy named Dick Nasty. Then she goes to talk to pornographers named Khan Tusion and Max Hardcore. Then she's stunned at what these people are really like? This really sounds plausible to you? Say the name out loud "Khan Tusion". Go ahead. Say it several times. In fact, go out and start a convo with a random lady and say "Hi baby. My name's Khan Tusion. Wanna be in my porn flick?". Don't you think even the name should be a dead giveaway to a clearly intelligent woman such as this? This "Felicity" was obviously not stupid.Right. You'll forgive me if I don't believe that for a minute.I didn't miss that part. She has a smile on her face while it's happening. Doesn't seem like she has a problem with it. While I agree the details should all be hammered out before any sex happens at all, she could have simply said something like this....... "What the fuck do you think you're doing? I haven't agreed to anything yet". At this point, she is not giving off the impression of a fragile little thing who's terrified and doesn't know what to do. She's acting like she can handle herself. She does tell him a couple of times that he's scaring her but she doesn't look scared and she's not really acting scared. How is a person supposed to interpret all of this? Like I said, Max shouldn't have shot any scenes with girls like her. Anyone who's making porn that depicts any kind of rough sex should make sure they cross every T and dot every I. This part certainly was Max's fault regardless of what his intentions were or what he thought was going on. Any man should really know better than to play games with consent. That part, I'm not defending him on. He should have known he was gonna be the bad guy no matter what.OK. Humor me. Why can't they prosecute? Why can't they go to the police station and file a report that Max Hardcore sexually assaulted them? It's not like this is going on in someplace where what they're doing is against the law. Porn is legal in California and I assume that's where Max was filming mostly. The cops may or may not have done anything but what would stop her from filing the report anyway? What would stop her from contacting the media? Unless there's a gun to her head and she's tied to the bed or she's being physically threatened, in my book, she can walk away. Are you being forced to do your job just because you'll be fired and not be paid if you walk out? Hell, your boss might even get mad at you and call you names if you quit your job. Does that mean you can't quit your job? Does that mean he's forcing you to stay? Guess what? I've been completely flat ass broke many times in my life. I've even been on the street not knowing where I was going to sleep or what I was going to eat. But I've never been on my back on a Max Hardcore or any other porn set. Sure. It was rough but for one thing, I didn't have the option of doing porn. Nobody wants ugly men to fuck on camera. Next, even if I'd had that option, if I didn't want to do it, I simply wouldn't do it. Or if I chose to, I would take responsibility for my own decisions. And finally, if I felt that I had been assaulted and taken beyond what I agreed to and if I wanted something done about it, I sure as hell would tell anyone who would listen and would never shutup about it until I made an impact.1. That's an assumption. You can't really know that in every single case. 2. That's a stereotype. The idea that all women are exactly the same and none of them are kinky or that they couldn't possibly have fantasies of doing porn or like doing it. Again, you can't know that and you shouldn't assume it unless they say so. 3. You are making that judgment call based upon your own definition of the term "Things are not going well for them". What is that? Do you think it might mean something different to other people besides yourself? 4. You're making that judgement based upon what you think you would or wouldn't do in a given situation. Other people are not you and you are not other people. You're you and they're them. Other people might have significantly different ideas, thoughts and opinions than you do. Ever think of that? 5. You're making that judgment based upon a small number of people whose opinions you know and who agree with you. This woman wouldn't really want to do porn so that must follow that no woman could ever possibly want to do porn. Isn't that about as sexist as it gets? That there are no individual women and they're all the same? That they don't have "dirty" minds or "dirty" fantasies? Why do you feel that way if you're not sexist? Why is any woman on a porn set a helpless victim? 6. I have news for you. Everyone (even rich people) goes through rough periods in their life. Even if you're right about this, these girls have the same choices, opportunities and problems everyone else has. Nobody has to do porn and certainly nobody has to do porn with a guy like Max. This isn't force. It's a choice.Maybe so but I haven't seen many of them. This is the one I've actually seen so I'm reserving my comments for what I actually know.How do you know the majority of them weren't mostly cool with it? This is what I mean. Too many assumptions.Perhaps. But you don't have to give the anti-porners a win by supporting them when they charge a guy you don't like with obscenity. If you believe he's guilty of something more serious than offending people, you should be asking why they let him get away with it and put him in jail for a few months for being offensive. If he did something more serious, why didn't they charge him with that and prove it in court?How many times does this really need to be said? He was not prosecuted for anything like rape (which doesn't mean he's innocent of that). He was prosecuted for obscenity. Do you see the difference? By supporting his prosecution on charges of obscenity, you are supporting the concept of obscenity (which is bullshit) and making it more likely that completely innocent people will be prosecuted for obscenity in the future. You think that it's fine that they charged him with this nonsense just because you don't like him and you think he's guilty of much more serious things. You're welcome to your opinion on that but if you're a porn fan, why would you want to give the concept of obscenity any legitimacy at all regardless of how you feel about Max? This has the potential to allow them to throw any pornographer who's perceived to be offensive to the average person into a courtroom and get a conviction. Do you just think that anal sex alone might be offensive enough to a jury of 12 people who go to church every Sunday to make them convict someone? What about watersports? Do you think a bunch of religious people on a jury would give a shit about consent if they were given the opportunity to convict a pornographer of making piss porn? Every obscenity conviction strengthens the concept itself. In 30 years, nobody is going to care what Max actually did in his movies (barring any further developments). The record will simply show "Obscenity". If they'd wanted to charge him with something else, they could have (and likely would have). They wanted the obscenity charge. Why do you think that was? I think I know. Because they knew it would ultimately be a strike against the whole porn industry. They were clearly not that interested in Max. Just the conviction. Four years is barely a slap on the wrist if you really believe he's guilty of some of the other stuff. What's up with that? It's bigger than Max. This was a "foot in the door" sort of thing.
Good points, Random. I believe that Max did push the boundaries of consent but agree that the government should stay out of the obscenity determination business unless it involves children (under 16) or snuff films. I however do believe that Max should have been convicted of rape and felony assault for what he did in his movies. A person can consent to a lot, but not to a speculum being used non-medically to tear a cunt open and a severe beating (caning, whipping and hitting are acceptable as long as only moderate damage is done but Max pushed it too far from what I have heard from several sources). I also feel the same about the male talent, director and producer of Facial Abuse for what they did to Clayra Beau -- nothing more than a slap should ever be done to the face in kinky porn and the FA male talent beat her so bad she had two red and black eyes within minutes of the scene beginning. As for Dick Nasty, if the agent is the same guy as the performer I am surprised that he would even consider sending talent to Max and Khan. The scenes I have seen him in actually were very considerate of the female talent and her limits, they were actually very vanilla scenes if you ask me. I couldn't even figure out why they call him Dick Nasty because he was so considerate of talent performing with him.
Wow I guess I touched a nerve. Let me try to clarify some points then:Yes I'm new to the forum. I hope I'm still allowed to have an opinion despite that fact. Is there a newbie rule that you aren't allowed to comment?Good point. I'm not American though, so I suppose I'm not that worried about your obscenity law. Is it okay that I still have an opinion about your incredibly profitable porn industry that is distributed world wide?This is also a good point. I have no idea who the filmmaker is. The only thing I know for certain is that he could not possibly be as much of an asshole as Paul Little. Am I angry at this (possibly manipulative) documentary filmmaker for revealing more to us about how this Paul Little operates? No. Good for him. He did a great job. If his agenda was to reveal that some of the extreme porn producers are shady and hate women and then he was able to find pretty compelling evidence for it, then good for him. He made an effective documentary. He used Max's medium against him.I'm not passing judgement on her. She doesn't have to be stupid. She doesn't have to be a saint. And she can be kinky. But there is a difference between kinky and just plain old hatred of women and abuse. You seem to want to shift the blame to the victims.Okay we agree on something.Perhaps the shame of having been involved in this kind of film. Possibly they knew they had consented to a certain point. This is where the issue gets grey and also where these producers effectively manipulate these performers. Suppose you were 18 and you had run away from an abusive father and you wind up on Max's couch with a bleeding anus. Would you even know what your rights were? You are right to point out that not all of Max's victims are exactly the same. But I can think of all sorts of reasons why they might be afraid to go to the police. I have heard that he did cause internal bleeding to an actress who did end up in the hospital, and I heard another report that he had broken a girl's arm after throwing her down a stair case in his house. I do not know his entire legal history but it is possible he has already been in trouble with the law, and they have certainly attempted to prosecute him before. I also heard that when he was a child he had a chemical imbalance and had to be medicated because he kept getting into fights. Not really surprising is it? At what point does it become clear that this is a mentally unstable man?Yeah that's right. The guy pointing out the problems with Max Hardcore's movies is the one who is as sexist as it gets. Come on dude.Well I just got here. So there is lots of time for me to point out what he's done if you like. It doesn't take very long to find it all on a Google search if it interests you that much. Look up Sierra Sinn. Look up Briana Banks. There's a whole slew of actresses who have complained and questioned how this guy treats his talent.That's also an assumption. I didn't say the majority of them weren't mostly cool with it. Obviously some of them enjoy it because he had certain regulars, some of whom were apparently his girlfriends. Often men who abuse women have a female partner in crime.I understand that the issue of obscenity is a complicated one. But my original point was that the issue of consent is also complicated. I do not know all the details of what happened with this case, but I would guess that the authorities have been trying to figure out what to do about this guy for a long time and they were probably frustrated that they haven't been able to stop him. Then they found their way. Am I sad it happened? No. I think Max dragged everyone who makes porn through the mud. If you're frustrated about the obscenity law then directing your anger at me is futile. I can't do anything about it. Direct your anger at the woman-hater who gave them a reason to use it. Edited by - Daniel Deronda on 7/21/2011 8:04:58 PM
I'm guessing this is an interview nobody published until now? Does anyone know exactly when this interview was done? It just says a number of years ago unless I missed something.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jul 22 2011 : 5:45AM
I was a little mystified to hear in the Gene Ross intro that Forbes.com had broken the story of Max's release, but then remembered that Susannah Breslin, who has written on porn and Max in particular before, wrote for them and she was the one who found out about Max's release date and details. Strange to hear that Max apparently ranted against her article on him as I thought it was critical but not unreasonable in its argument, which is if one is going to defend Max's right of free expression (or not for that matter) one should at least know what he is expressing by watching some of his material. Edited by - BlackSix on 7/22/2011 5:46:33 AM
Also keep in mind that - as an up-and-coming starlet - once you stand up against a producer and performer as powerful as Max (back in the days), there might not be any kind of future for you in the adult business. You'll be deemed a troublemaker, someone who doesn't just shut the hell up and take it. Especially when you're young and desperate this may contribute to keeping quiet - no matter what a producer / director / performer may have put you through.
You might want to try the search function. This is a discussion that's been going on for years here. You haven't said anything that hasn't been said. And indeed, I'm just repeating myself here in this thread.I think you misinterpreted what I said. You're more than welcome to say whatever you like as far as I'm concerned. I just meant that I have no idea who you are or whether you're being completely honest so I have no idea what your intentions are here. People who have more posts are easier to debate because I usually know more about them and whether or not I can trust them. It's nothing personal.Well if you truly are a porn fan, the idea that what happens in American law WRT porn will never have any affect on you (wherever you are) is pretty naive. That's all I have to say about that.If you have no idea who he/they is/are, how could you possibly know that? There's more than one kind of asshole in the world and there are probably a lot of them walking around with cameras pretending to be good guys trying to expose the evils of the world.Well I finally watched the rest of the documentary and in my opinion, the narrator is anti-porn (not just ant-Max) from frame one. The way he talks as he's narrating the thing from the beginning, it seems clear to me that he has a very strong anti-porn disposition. He talks about how "it struck him" that Richard leads Felicity around like she's a prize very early in the movie. Is this really something a porn fan would think for no apparent reason? I'm a porn fan and I wouldn't think that. I don't think a commonplace little thing like that would be something that would stand out to someone who likes porn. I think it would only stand out to someone who already has a negative opinion of the porn business and is trying to get little jabs in everywhere they can. Dick Nasty does come out looking very bad in this documentary. But this wasn't obvious from the start. Things seemed pretty normal at first and if you liked porn you wouldn't see anything unusual about an agent showing a new girl around and taking them to meet people. And then later in the film as some kind of sex is being filmed, there's some kind of creepy background music playing. Like Friday The 13th music or something. And this wasn't on the Max Hardcore set. It was a relatively soft sex scene where Felicity is working with another girl. Why would someone who likes porn play horror movie music in the background of a normal, soft sex scene? I think this guy set out to make porn look bad. Period.Well I am. I'll be honest. I don't think women have special rights because they're women. I think we're all equal. But that also means that I judge them the same way I do everyone else. I think it's entirely possible for them to have ulterior motives and to be manipulative and sneaky and shady. Was that what was going on with this girl? I honestly don't know but I wouldn't be too surprised. If we are judging people in this documentary, no one is beyond suspicion or off limits.If someone voluntarily goes to someone's house, strips naked and bends over with a playful smile on her face after being told the guy has a bad reputation for being a creep, you're damn right some of the blame goes on on her. Not all of it but at least some.Being 18 doesn't mean you're completely stupid. If a person believes they've been assaulted they probably have been. I was assaulted by a group of guys at the local mall when I was 17. When I finally got away from them, I went straight to the security office and reported it. And I have (And had) social anxiety. I was shy, ashamed and embarrassed but I went and reported it. It's not rocket science. You're making it sound way more complicated and/or difficult than it is.I actually haven't really disagreed with you that much about Max (which you don't seem to understand). The only thing I've said was that Max shouldn't have been prosecuted for obscenity. And here is what you said... Women don't make these kinds of films when their lives are going well. Whether you admit it or not, that is sexist and I explained exactly why that is so in detail. You made an assumption about women who make "these kinds of films". I'm not even sure what you meant by that. What kinds of films? Max Hardcore films or porn films in general?I have seen enough of Max that I don't really doubt it. Again, we're mostly in disagreement over this obscenity thing. Not what kind of person Max is. I don't care what kind of person Max is. I'm concerned about the effect his conviction will have on the future of porn. It's pretty clear they had no interest in going after him for anything else and that is what you need to really get your mind around. We're talking about the US government here. They could have charged him with anything they wanted to (assuming they could find one witness willing to testify against him). And in the end, he only got a slap on the wrist. How can you not see there was a much different goal here than stopping Max?Well, actually, it isn't. The people who made it up were trying to destroy the porn business and that fact has never changed. To them, all porn is obscene.One more time. I don't think they really cared much about Max. I think Max was convenient for them. All they wanted was someone to prosecute who would be easy to convict and Max was perfect. Max wasn't the only one shooting gagging and spitting and slapping and so on. Max was the one who brought all of the most offensive things together in one neat package. He was the one most likely to be convicted. And he was the one who had been the most brazen about it And again. The people who went after Max hate porn. All of it. They were looking at the bigger picture. They were not wasting their time trying to figure out how to stop Max. Instead, they were working on figuring out how to use Max to weaken the entire industry. Max was not good for anyone in the business. He was great for those who wanted to portray porn and it's customers as scumbags.I'm not angry at you. I'm annoyed with you. It takes a lot more than this to get me angry. I know you can't do anything about it. I never said you could. But you can encourage more of the same by showing support for the precedent. Whether you realize it or not large numbers of people have more influence than small numbers of people. If you're one of a large group of people shouting from the rooftops about how happy you are Max was convicted of obscenity, your voice has significantly more influence than those of us who are/were against it. In a Democracy, the only thing that matters is the majority. The majority should never support an unjust law even if it takes down someone who deserves to be taken down. I know you said you don't live in the US but it doesn't matter. The internet is global. Broad support from the public is what they need to keep going.
I think this is an assumption too. Do you really think at least 50% of the rest of the industry would hold it against a girl that she walked off a Max Hardcore set because he was being a dick? I seriously doubt it. Most of them would have probably been on her side because everyone knew what Max was about. I really doubt he was very well liked by everyone else. I think a girl would have to do something a lot worse than walk off of Max's set to get a bad reputation in porn.
In the interview Max says that his favourite co-star is Barbie Angel, because she's currently living with him. She was only in the biz in 1996-1997, so that's probably when this interview was taken from. (Note: IAFD says she was in the biz 1996-1999, but that's when the movies were released of course, not when they were filmed. Her scene for Hardcore Schoolgirls 8 was filmed 09/96 and her scene for Hardcore Schoolgirls 6 was shot on 2/25/96, 3/23/96, or 3/27/97.)
I will take your word for it because I haven't seen every one of his scenes. The impression I received from the two or three that I have was that he was very easy on the girls. They were vanilla scenes, though -- maybe he changes his technique and behavior for different subject matter. One of the scenes I remember was from Luc Wylder's "Amateur Angels" series with a very new girl. Dick looked like an older businessman type in the scenes I saw (in one right down to the dress shirt and dress slacks). I actually couldn't figure out why he took the name "Nasty" from what I had seen but from what you are alluding to maybe in his personal life or with companies and women that allow for harsher scenes he could be different (unless Luc is doing a BDSM scene, his scenes tend to be fun but very vanilla -- he was even hired to direct the Barely Legal for a while, probably because he was so good at making the new talent comfortable).
[Link]
realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jul 23 2011 : 3:02PM
The person does indeed work porn, and has an established career in the industry. The person claims to have a friendship with Max, and claims to have been in contact with Max since his release from prison. As far as I know, I don't think that the person posts here on ADT. I choose not to say who the person is right now because I don't know whether or not the person wants their identity shared here. Besides, why does it matter who it is?The link leads to an article about the Minion. I didn't see anything there about Max.
Well I ain't gonna lie. I loved watching Max. It was kinda like Fantasy porn for me. Like action movies or scifi, just because I enjoyed watching it doesn't mean I would mimic it. I hope Max does come back. As someone living in Florida, I'm ashamed of our state's behavior in this whole matter. I really feel like this was violation of rights. I believe it was Max (or his lawyer) who suggested the only people forced to watch his videos were the jury. But I understand others may have a different opinion of the subject.
People tell lies my friend. Some people like publicity. I don't like publicity. 674 Posts 5/11
Posted - Aug 19 2011 : 1:30PM
Same here, mainly I love the girls he would get. I wasn't happy when the DVD rental companies pulled his films. I found nothing wrong with his material. If you don't like it, don't watch it but don't prevent others from viewing it. The same people in the Florida courts who condemn the guy are the same self righteous people who are probably fucking their girlfriends up the ass.
It depends on the scene. Some I like, some I don't. Pretty much the same as I feel about everyone else in porn. I can honestly understand why people hate him but, to summarize part of what RandomPrecision said, the end doesn't justify the means. I mean, when something is defined as, "I know it when I see it," well it just doesn't pass the eyeball test to me.
To see Max at his best check out his earliest work: Anal Adventures Of Max Hardcore Anal Vision Ass Master Bubble Butts Casting Call The Hitchhiker Analtown USA MAX: Maximum Anal Xcursions Edited by - Asmodeus on 8/20/2011 4:05:16 PM
Max Hardcore @ AEBN
Posted - Jul 18 2011 : 10:54PM
