Students pursuing a degree in the sciences don't always have their parents paying their way. They have bills to pay, rent due, tuition, books, etc. They need income, and I can easily see how stripping looks better than flipping burgers: it can pay better and may have hours more compatible with classes.

Likewise a new graduate with a degree but no experience isn't paid top-dollar, especially if the degreed field isn't in favor. It's not unrealistic that after graduation stripping may look more profitable for a few years.

And finally - and you might find this a foreign thought - some girls may like the porn industry, enjoy the friends and common experiences, etc. Many people settle into careers not because it has the greatest potential income but rather because they enjoy it and the income appears, at least at the time, to be adequate.

Nobody would be shocked if a girl pursuing an engineering degree decided to flip burgers rather than strip or do porn because of potential future workplace problems. On the other hand, the opposite decision is not necessarily irrational, just different than the one you or I might make.

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2Big wrote:
"If I had a sister or kids, I wouldn't want them anywhere near these kinds of people. People who absolutely have no future. "

two of the best and most unforgettable quotes i've read on these message boards in a long time.

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CC

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SNP.

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SNP.
(just thinking that even if there was he'd be no more likely to win one)

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That's why you gotta respect Jewel De'Nyle,
Tricia D, Jenna Jameson, Janine, Asia C, etc.

It's all good

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Just look at the sad and pathetic story of Traci Lords: now she's making claiming she was hurt like Linda Lovelace, trying to hawk her "autobiography." She'll be remembered for her talents in porn - and spectacular talents these were.

2Big

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But then there are some porn guys who can't make a post without serious spelling, punctuation and grammar mistakes. In fact, I think on average, they are worse on this score than many of the actresses who post on ADT. I really wonder how these guys would fare working in a corporation, especially with the reliance on email these days to conduct business.

Moreover, while some of these actors and directors in their films (both in the main footage and in BTS) come across as mature and professional, others look like they are as impatient and inattentive as a 10 year old, and just as short-tempered. And you know, that behavior is fine when you're 10, but it looks pretty odd in a man in his 30's or 40's.

I've got more to add about trying to combine a career first as a porn actress, then working in industry, but I'll post about that tomorrow.

Yeah, this guy with his BS ChemE from Tech.U. Budapest, his Ph.D. Chem.E. from Berkeley, and his jobs at Daimler Benz and General Motors, as well as his current one as VP of Research at Atofina in Philadelphia, made me feel like a piece of meat during my half hour interview with him, that took place 20 years ago. He looked me over from head to toe, and from the rear as well, just the same way you see Rocco Siffredi do with a young woman at one of his porn casting calls. Except, I thought I was interviewing for a job as a chemist, silly me.

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I only watch the softer types of porn from companies like Vivid and Wicked because I like to stay away from the harder more borderline abusive stuff. It seems to me that the Vivid/Wicked feature films show their contract stars as sexy, sensual and empowered starlets. They are hot, have a huge fanbase, and are compensated well and treated like more mainstream actresses. I would not be so upset if my sister/daughter became one of these types of porn stars.
HOWEVER, there are also girls who are smacked around, banged by 10 guys and treated like general shit in their sex scenes. To me this is not sexy. In these films the women are portrayed as pieces of meat that are only good for ramming your giant throbbing hard on into repeatedly. I would be quite upset if my daughter ended up having to stoop to this level to collect her 750 dollars after she wiped the 10 guys' cum off of her face to pay rent.

I think porn should be about showing off the sexual beauty of the female. It shouldn't be about seeing how many dicks you can fit into one girl's ass. This to me is what it is all about. If a girl enjoys her work and truly loves to have hot sex on camera, is treated in a fair manner by her studio, and retains her dignity while on camera I am all for it. If she is just having sex for the quick buck and feels exploited or is exploited then its a different story. There are probably a lot of girls in this business who would remind you of Jennifer Connelly in "Requiem for a Dream" and that to me is incredibly sad.

We also need to start being less vague when we say "intelligent". I don't think someone who can function normally in society and has the ability to discuss current events or philosophy is intelligent. I mean, anybody can pick up a newspaper or visit a library and do the same thing. Honestly, we all know how dumb the average person is and 50% of people are dumber. Those 50% apparently don't exist however because everyone believes they are smart. No one wants to admit to the fact that they are not smart. Therefore, when they encounter someone of equal intellectual power they instantly label that person smart. No, that person is NOT smart. What they are is as dumb as YOU are. I'm sure this goes on a lot in the porn biz. The normal girls (non-druggies) of the business believe they are smart when in reality they are of average intelligence. They believe they are smart because they are surrounded 24/7 by the dregs of the intellectual gene pool. When they encounter someone like them in the biz (and there are plenty) they believe that person is smart. Soon, they believe half the industry is smart because they are just like her. Sorry, YOU are not smart. Neither are they. Asia Carrera is smart. Jenna Jameson is business saavy. There is a difference. A lot of people just aren't smart. No reason to be ashamed of it. Especially if you are a popular pornstar. So you are succeeding in life based on your looks, so what? Embrace it. In fact, be happy you can make a fair amount of money without having to be smart. You have other qualities. You are sexy, famous, and have people get wobbly legs when they are around you. But honestly, stop trying to justify your career by saying you are smart and able to do rocket science or whatever. The fact that you are trying to justify your career means you are insecure about all that it entails. I don't see Math Ph.D's justifying their careers. It's okay to not be intelligent and its okay to go into porn because it makes you more money than the 35k a year job that is your opportunity cost. If you were truly intelligent you would find another job because porn would be unsatisfying. If Albert Einstein had a 12 inch cock and muscles would he be a pornstar? No, because his intellectual curiosity would be unsatisfied. He would prefer math equations to being paid for sex. Also, if you were smart you could honestly find a higher paying job than porn as those that are smart do tend to be in the higher socio-economic brackets. 90% of pornstars are probably not smart but they should stop being so damn insecure about it.

BTW: Does anybody know any good DVD's with Monique Alexander in them? She drives me crazy and I can't seem to find a lot of her stuff.

Edited by - Monique Alexander Fan on 3/28/2004 10:07:24 PM

Edited by - Monique Alexander Fan on 3/28/2004 10:28:29 PM

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Jasmine Lynn just retired from anal-gonzo-raunch to go to school. I would suspect she's on the path you outlined and is now going to school with money earned in porn. College isn't free.

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If I am to understand that your rant stems from Tricia's comment about graduating Magna Cum Laude, her point wasn't to justify her career, but to rebut the previous suggestion that porn stars were dummies. Obviously mere probability suggests that some are, but to paint them all with the same brush is, well, not smart. Furthermore, your suggestion that 'if you were smart you could honestly find a higher paying job than porn' presupposes that finding a higher paying job is the goal of every porn star. I challenge that supposition. What can you cite as proof? Also, your statement that, "If you were truly intelligent you would find another job because porn would be unsatisfying" is wholly without merit. It presumes that an intelligent person must have a job that challenges that intelligence. This is patently false, as I can prove simply by pointing to your own choice of example, Albert Einstein. Again, I don't believe that porn stars are all equally as smart as Tricia or Selena Silver, but neither do I accept the suggestion that they must all be 'not smart' to be in porn.

Second, this site, these forums, exist to allow the fans to talk about adult DVD's and to interact with those in the business. Attacking the members of the porn community is not what this place is about. Neither is this site a governmental free speech zone where you can write whatever may come to mind. This is a private community which you may join and participate in so long as you follow the rules and principles defined in the "Forum Etiquette" (I trust you read it). This doesn't preclude intelligent discussion about issues surrounding porn, but it does mean that they should be conducted free of invective and negativity.

PS - I'm a dumbass, and, no, I don't know of any Monique Alexander movies.

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Intelligence alone will not get you a degree from a university, although it does help. A person of average intelligence but having a good memory can achieve a degree without much problem. I have a friend who never finished high school, and yet he is unquestionably more intelligent than some of the graduates I have met. As far as earning capacity goes, none of the millionaires I have met were college graduates.

I have no problem at all in understanding that a highly qualified and intelligent woman may choose to work in porn simply because she loves to do it.

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I'm basing what I have to say next on my 20+ years of working in the chemical industry at 3 different companies. I don't say this lightly, and I imagine some will find it controversial, but I would strongly suggest that any woman who wants a career path like this and who has worked in porn or as a stripper, take measures to hide this from co-workers or employers. The grand majority of scientists and engineers, both men and women, though technically adventurous, are more socially conservative than the average person, at least here in the US. Most get married young and stay married; in fact at my company site, of all the professional men I've worked with, only 2 have gotten divorced, out of about 100 who work here.

These individuals have a low opinion of women who've had a lot of sexual partners. My troubles with the two men, that I mentioned in my first post in this thread, started because I had a strong resemblance to a secretary at our site who slept with a number of men at work, including the two guys above. Even women would tell me I looked like her, except that I dressed more plainly. This was all it took to put me into the potential "slut/whore" category, and from then on I had problems. It took me 4 years to reverse the damage this did to my career. I can't imagine that a former porn actress or stripper would get a more positive welcome than I did.

I would hope things are different in other industries, like banking or journalism or real estate, etc. I know nothing about working in those, so can't comment on them. Things may be different in the computer industry, where there are mostly younger people, and persons move around a lot from company to company.

On a different issue, some on this thread have stated that the women who work in porn can earn so much money, that they can retire after a few years, and are set for life. Perhaps this is true for the ones who have been lucky enough to get feature contracts for several years. But for the women who have only worked in gonzo films, I think the story is rather different.

Mike Quasar from ZT stated several months ago here on ADT that a woman working in gonzo has a career on average that lasts six months or so. I thought he was joking at the time, but now I see he was on the mark. Even for the ones who want to stay longer, it appears that their bookings start to dry up after about a year, because the studios are always looking for fresh faces (two of the actresses who post on this board have hinted about this). I suspect that this is a major factor in why some women "retire"; it's because they can't get enough decent work anymore.

The only person who has worked in gonzo, and has said on this board that they'll never have to work again, is Dion Giarusso, when he left Red Light District and got the money that was his share of the business. Face it folks, the grand majority of money in gonzo porn goes to the studio owners, not to the actresses. A number of actresses have stated that they get no residuals from their movies, no matter how successful the film was or how many comp tapes their work ends up in. They get their initial fee, and that is that.

A last word about Albert Einstein: He is one scientist that did have a rather daring sex life. He was married 3 times, and hinted that he had numerous affairs as well (in his younger days, he wasn't bad looking). Even he admitted to the press that he was a bad husband. He lived with his first wife before they were married, and they had a child out-of-wedlock – and this was back in 1900 or so . Well, she was Hungarian, they probably couldn't help themselves.

Einstein was utterly bored with his first real job, working at the Swiss Patent Office in Zurich. He spent most of his time thinking about theoretical physics, and it was during this unhappy job experience that he came up with his theory of general relativity and his ideas on the photoelectric effect, both of which won him two Nobel prizes. He's one individual who put a boring job to good use, but there have been precious few like him.

Edited by - Renee on 3/29/2004 6:14:23 PM

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By the way, for all you smart pornstars out there living in the US: http://www.pibmug.com/files/map_test.swf

You better get a high score and prove me wrong!!!!

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In fact, I would go a step further here; some posters, such as the dearly departed Shameless, always give me the impression that those old stereotypes are essential to their fantasy life: poor starving little girls, hollow-eyed, homeless and soulless, blackmailed into a life in porn--forced to do any sexual act required, from gangbangs to bestiality, and kept chained in the agent's basement the rest of the time . Are any of you reading this getting a hard-on You know who you are.

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I'm late to this party, and I don't have much useful to add accept to say with all sincerity that Hardware, Skronker and Tricia are my heroes--my inspiration--and in MY little world, I'm pretty proud of that particularly intelligent choice on my part! (If I do say so myself...)

I think it's time for one of my ADT breaks--seriously.

People can be so cruel, and I can be so protective of my friends.

As Jewel says, "I'm sensitive and I'd like to stay that way." All the shame trafficing around here lately is taking its toll on my soul.

Edited by - MLyons on 3/30/2004 12:37:06 AM

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Thanks Tricia for your comment, that warms my heart, too. You guys rock, and your class and intelligence shines through every kind of bullshit.

Thanks Hardware and thanks Renee -- you are my hero tonight. Please keep your right up and saying what needs to be said.

I can't spell;check this whole thing but maybe tomrrow ...

Edited by - skronker on 3/30/2004 2:40:10 AM

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& she deserves the same respect & financial compensation one would give a sports star.

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Are you someone who JERKS OFF to porn? Why do you hate porn stars so much? Are you stuck in a VIRGIN/WHORE complex? I'm so sick of this bullshit. Gee, what about RACING TOUTS? What about SOCIAL WORKERS? What about people WHO WORK AT COfFEE SHOPS FOR TIPS? I bet, P{ORN STARS MAKE MORE MONEY. I bet they make more money than YOU! Gee, I'm 19 and I'm hot -- maybe I'm STUPID, too! Give me a fucking break! Yeah, clicjhe, cl;iche, cliche cliche -- it's ALL TRUE. But it's not a paRADIGM.

Sorry, Mods, I;m probably trolling. Fire me!

Yeah, there are mountains of social issues about porn, but none of them are unique to porn. If it all bothers you so much, GET THEE TO A NUNNERY!

Done -- apologies to all.

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(Joshing, even though I - sometimes - stand accused).

High fives!

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"Just a couple more Joey, c'mon, just a couple more!"

You would be amazed at the number of outright legit geniuses I know who are total fucking drug addicts and fuck ups who are major level performing artists. Top of the shelf people, who simply have big problems dealing without drugs or alcohol. They are not porn stars. They have "everything going for them." You read about them in the papers. You read their books and buy their records. Majoir league fucking fuck-ups. Brilliant mistakes. Gonna blame the music industry? Gonna call them abused or stupid? No, I doubt it.

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Teagan...oh,Teagan...I love you...I looooooove yoooooouuuuu...aaaaaarrrrghhhhhh!!!!!!!

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Edited by - on 7/11/2004 6:27:13 PM

Edited by - kinetic rest on 7/11/2004 7:40:49 PM

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*just kidding*
like MLyons i am very proud of the defenders of the crown.

nevertheless,...

it doesnt matter if you went to a university or youre just highly gifted
in fucking people senseless, what you deserve is what you get!
(for 2big in german: es kann egal sein ob du studiert hast oder gut fickst,
was du verdienst ist was du kriegst!)

and since i make a great show of learning, if youre fun to be with,
they dont mind if youre smart or stupid!
as long as youre happy and healthy and wealthy, why change?
and by the way 2big (no pun intended) my future shines so bright,
youll definitely need your shades!
and btw stripping is a job.

what bothers me most with these narrow mindsets is that
they continue to feed ressentiments against people having
sex in front of a camera.
it tells a tale about your own sexuality too.

though i have to say pornboy has a point too,
large parts of society despise people working in the
jiz biz. they happily reduce sex-industry workers to
their on-screen appearances and like the idea of stupid
drugged bitches having no other choice than getting banged.

its a strange mix of jealousy, not-knowing-what-they-talk-about,
insecurity in their own sexlifes, and the bad habit to look down
on other people to lift your own persona.
wake up! its a job. and a way cool one too,
and if someone doesnt want to employ you coz of the beautiful things
you have accomplished in your past, than its no good joob anyway

on the other hand, if pornboy wants to shelter his family from harms
and bitching brought to you by the very society you live in,
i can understand this too.
the best way however is to tell your children that sex is about
responsibility, fun and pleasure and not about violence, humilation and harm.
since our kids will form the society of tomorrow.

(of coz for some men its best to pop your load in the ass to protect
society from unwanted pregnacys )

nevertheless,...

it doesnt matter if you went to a university or youre just highly gifted
in fucking people senseless, what you deserve is what you get!
(for 2big in german: es kann egal sein ob du studiert hast oder gut fickst,
was du verdienst ist was du kriegst!)

and since i make a great show of learning, if youre fun to be with,
they dont mind if youre smart or stupid!
as long as youre happy and healthy and wealthy, why change?
and by the way 2big (no pun intended) my future shines so bright,
youll definitely need your shades!
and btw stripping is a job.

what bothers me most with these narrow mindsets is that
they continue to feed ressentiments against people having
sex in front of a camera.
it tells a tale about your own sexuality too.

though i have to say pornboy has a point too,
large parts of society despise people working in the
jiz biz. they happily reduce sex-industry workers to
their on-screen appearances and like the idea of stupid
drugged bitches having no other choice than getting banged.

its a strange mix of jealousy, not-knowing-what-they-talk-about,
insecurity in their own sexlifes, and the bad habit to look down
on other people to lift your own persona.
wake up! its a job. and a way cool one too,
and if someone doesnt want to employ you coz of the beautiful things
you have accomplished in your past, than its no good joob anyway

on the other hand, if pornboy wants to shelter his family from harms
and bitching brought to you by the very society you live in,
i can understand this too.
the best way however is to tell your children that sex is about
responsibility, fun and pleasure and not about violence, humilation and harm.
since our kids will form the society of tomorrow.

(of coz for some men its best to pop your load in the ass to protect
society from unwanted pregnacys )

nevertheless,...

it doesnt matter if you went to a university or youre just highly gifted
in fucking people senseless, what you deserve is what you get!
(for 2big in german: es kann egal sein ob du studiert hast oder gut fickst,
was du verdienst ist was du kriegst!)

and since i make a great show of learning, if youre fun to be with,
they dont mind if youre smart or stupid!
as long as youre happy and healthy and wealthy, why change?
and by the way 2big (no pun intended) my future shines so bright,
youll definitely need your shades!
and btw stripping is a job.

what bothers me most with these narrow mindsets is that
they continue to feed ressentiments against people having
sex in front of a camera.
it tells a tale about your own sexuality too.

though i have to say pornboy has a point too,
large parts of society despise people working in the
jiz biz. they happily reduce sex-industry workers to
their on-screen appearances and like the idea of stupid
drugged bitches having no other choice than getting banged.

its a strange mix of jealousy, not-knowing-what-they-talk-about,
insecurity in their own sexlifes, and the bad habit to look down
on other people to lift your own persona.
wake up! its a job. and a way cool one too,
and if someone doesnt want to employ you coz of the beautiful things
you have accomplished in your past, than its no good joob anyway

on the other hand, if pornboy wants to shelter his family from harms
and bitching brought to you by the very society you live in,
i can understand this too.
the best way however is to tell your children that sex is about
responsibility, fun and pleasure and not about violence, humilation and harm.
since our kids will form the society of tomorrow.

(of coz for some men its best to pop your load in the ass to protect
society from unwanted pregnacys )

nevertheless,...

it doesn't matter if you went to a university or you're just highly gifted
in fucking people senseless, what you deserve is what you get!
(for 2big in german: es kann egal sein ob du studiert hast oder gut fickst,
was du verdienst ist was du kriegst!)

and since i make a great show of learning, if you're fun to be with,
they don't mind if you're smart or stupid!
as long as you're happy and healthy and wealthy, why change?
and by the way'2big' (no pun intended) my future shines so bright,
you'll definitely need your shades!
and btw stripping is a job.

what bothers me most with these narrow mindsets is that
they continue to feed ressentiments against people having
sex in front of a camera.
it tells a tale about your own sexuality too.

though i have to say pornboy has a point too,
large parts of society despise people working in the
jiz biz. they happily reduce sex-industry workers to
their on-screen appearances and like the idea of stupid
drugged bitches having no other choice than getting banged.

it's a strange mix of jealousy, not-knowing-what-they-talk-about,
insecurity in their own sexlifes, and the bad habit to look down
on other people to lift your own persona.
wake up! it's a job. and a way cool one too,
and if someone doesnt want to employ you coz of the beautiful things
you have accomplished in your past, than it's no good joob anyway

on the other hand, if pornboy wants to shelter his family from harms
and bitching brought to you by the very society you live in,
i can understand this too.
the best way however is to tell your children that sex is about
responsibility, fun and pleasure and not about violence, humilation and harm.
since our kids will form the society of tomorrow.

(of coz for some men it's best to pop your load in the ass to protect
society from unwanted pregnacy's )

Do you really have to be the ice queen intellectual or the slut whore?
Isn't there some way to be both? -- Susan Sarandon

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But I would not support a daughter doing it to support a drug habit - it would be my responsibility and that of others to get that sorted out. A drug habit is the worst possible reason to do porn, IMO. But again, if she did it this way I would never ever disown her.

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Edited by - Matt47 on 4/1/2004 12:39:51 PM

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The question has been raised here before: how would feel if that were your daughter up there getting ass plunged on camera by half a dozen guys? Well...honestly...first of all - EEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW!! That's like picturing your parents fucking, you know it happens (well, not in her case
yet, I HOPE), but SSSSSSSHHHHHH!!

But seriously, I've given that a lot of thought and the answer is: who cares what I'd feel? It's not my life at that point, it's hers . If she wants to fuck her way through college escorting, dancing and doing XXX, and save up a nest egg so she doesn't have to work at fucking entry-level bullshit jobs just to eke out a living - more power to her!

I respect people who take that plunge, who don't give a fuck what you think of them, so much more than anyone the ones doing the judging. It shows ignorance of what's really important in the long run - that someone had the guts to get out there and try to make a better life for themself.

Are some people misguided, or less smart, or more drug-addled than others? Sure, of course, in every walk of life you'll find that to be the truth. Somebody already said that, though. Somebody's already said ALL of this, this is just my own epiphany.

Are some parents going to be impossible to please no matter what you do? Of course, yes, happens all the time. One of my best buddies broke down and cried to me a few weeks ago because he just got off the phone with his Dad and observed "My parents have never, ever told me 'good job, we're proud of you.' All they've ever done is criticize and tell me what a disappointment I am."

HOW SAD IS THAT?? God, I almost cried, too, I'm misting up now remembering it!

So much pain and suffering in this world...how can you treat your own child that way? I know they only want "what's best for him", and it screws me up when they hold me out as an example of "what to do and how to live". Well, FUCK THAT!

I want to bash their faces in! Your son is trying his best! His wife CHEATED ON HIM, got pregnant by another man and had an abortion while they were married, rode him so hard about paying attention to her emotinally greedy ass while he should have been studying for his classes that he had to DROP OUT...FUCK!!

There's so much negativity in the world that it weighs heavily on me sometimes. I'm no saint, that's for sure, but WOW, where's the empathy, the compassion? There's been some in this thread, and thank you all for that.

I try really hard to build up people who feel beat down because I know, deep down, they deserve to be happy and free from all this chatter, chatter, chatter. It's like the buzzing of flies to me, and wherever there's a big stinking pile of shit, you'll find 'em.

So, anyway, I didn't have a point, as usual . I just wanted to purge a little and join in the Love Fest.

If people ADT because of the shit stains on the underwear of life -- we all lose. Everyone with any sunshine left in their soul might get it snuffed right on out and man, I know I'm on that edge. You don't want me on THEIR side, do you?

HUGS, people. Or I'll call T.C. and send his huge cock over to stretch your ass right out. Very therapeutic.

Edited by - cobalt60 on 4/1/2004 8:06:51 PM

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-T.C.

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Apparently, so I hear, a LOT...

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-T.C.

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Edited by - cobalt60 on 4/1/2004 2:31:32 PM

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