Sorry, but this sounds like a personal preference (poll) question. I think you will get as many different answers as there are people responding.
For porn movies, all of what you describe would lump under the "feature" genre. For a feature to be good, the plot and sex need to work together. Stories that revolve around sex fit this criteria the best. Though perhaps not representative of the usual couples movies for content, some titles that come to mind are Ass Collector, Fashionistas, White Lightening.
Then again, many people just want good wall-to-wall sex without the story. Vignettes work for this, like John Leslie's Voyeur 20. Please distinguish the difference between this and the usual gonzo.
It doesn't matter if it is Romance, Comedy, Western, or whatever. As long as it has high-production values, is sexually non-offensive and is "pretty" to look at.
Classics fit that description best.
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"The greatest argument for the existence of God, is the beauty of the female form." -- Blake_Fan
"The great ambition of women is to inspire love." -- Moliere (1622-1673)
I find that it is not the genre that makes it the best couples movie. Rather it is dependent on the scene itself. I'll discuss this in a while. Having said this, I would likely buy thriller, comedy, western and action and expect it to be a good couples movie and avoid sci-fi and horror.
I have a collection of feature films, including those from wicked which I think isn't that great. I still prefer features than gonzo but if feature films does not improve, I'll switch over to gonzo.
I find most feature films poorly made as a feature. I'm not asking for million dollar production but make it like a mainstream movie with the explicit sex thrown in. Since the non-sex part is poorly made, I gather that I might as well watch gonzo movies.
Of the wicked movies I had, I think Heat (Stormy) is a enjoyable. It has a strong storyline, strong non-sex dialogue, it doesn't starts off with sex, the sex scene fits the situation and not just sex for no reason, it is seductive (Summer Storm licking Randy Spears's finger) and it is filmed outdoors realistically (Randy driving car, scene outside gas station, scene outside cafe). Any movie with no realistic outdoor filming will not look like a mainstream movie. The color in this movie for some reason look so weak like it is a made in 50s movie. And wish it is in widescreen.
I find Partners Forever, although nice plot for feature film, not made very well. The worst part is the action particularly the ending part. The fighting just don't look realistic enough.
Roadblock is actually a great feature film with elements of a mainstream movie but the action fails badly. The part where the deputies burst into the house with the bad guy shooting his shotgun aimlessly just look too stupid and unrealistic. Then the last action scene which involve the booby trapped motel room should be improved. I don't recall any 'action' from this scene. The sex part between Randy Spears and Stephanie Swift in the last scene is disappointing and worse, she didn't let us see her boobs. Somehow, gonzo movies make their sex better, you get to see a lot more sex than this Randy Spears/Stephanie Swift scene.
I don't think I'll buy another action porn movie not until they make serious actions for this genre.
I know some would say this is porn so I think if feature films continues to be like that, I'll stop watching features and switch over to gonzo. For features to be good, they need to be made like a mainstream movie with explicit sex thrown in.
Imagine 'Killing Me Softly' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine 'Unfaithful' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine 'Birthday Girl' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine 'Body Of Evidence' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine 'Eyes Wide Shut' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine 'Last Seduction' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine 'Kiss The Girls' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine 'American Beauty' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine 'Original Sin' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine '2 Days In The Valley ' as it is but the sex is explicit. Imagine 'Whole Nine Yards' as it is but the sex is explicit.
I'd like to second what Shenton had to say, that the ideal couples film would be a well-done Hollywood or independent studio drama that has explicit sex scenes. That way, one would have excellent acting and dialogue, a decent screenplay with a good story, real film, good cinematography, and realistic sex...
...But, unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, because the good, well-trained actors/actresses choose not to do these sorts of scenes for the sake of their careers, or in the case of male actors, they cannot perform sexually in front of a film crew .
I know it has been speculated that Ewan Macgregor, the Scottish actor who was in Moulin Rouge, and lots of other films, would be one of the first mainstream actors who might give this sort of work a try. He has appeared completely nude in Peter Greenaway's Pillow Book, doing some simulated sex scenes; and the guy is definately well-endowed . So maybe we shouldn't give up hope just yet.
Ewan Macgregor has a compulsion to get his general out at every possible opportunity . Thought you might like to know Renee , just in case you're ever in his neck of the woods ! Actually I think he made a film recently called the Pornographers , something about 1960's porn writers or something . Not sure if he got his chopper out or not .
Genre would probably be thriller . Think how many erotic thrillers there are . Can't think of too many erotic westerns !
I completely disagree with the above posters that the aim of the production should be to ape mainstream as much as possible . High production values are always the icing on the cake for me and turn a good film into a great one . Weirdly they only serve to highlight the inadequacies in a poorly made piece , which can actually make it seem worse than it is . It's probably best to reserve the extra cash for only the very best directors .
As for acting the main criteria for me is whether or not the lust/passion between the performers is believable . If the lead can fight well or order a burger with style is very much secondary . Let's have some deep penetrating gazes during the pounding action please .
One last point . Some attention to hair and makeup can be greatly rewarded . It could be argued that this falls under production values but I prefer to think of it as wardrobe . Make them look special and they may just turn in special performances .
I agree. Feature films need to be made as a feature. To be a feature, it needs to be made like mainstream movies.
Watching features today can be frustrating as the movie pretends to be a feature and consequently it fails both as a feature film and porn movie.
By the way, the punch that Brad threw on Randy in Heat is just look too fake. The scene outside the cafe is poorly made. I just wonder if it is that hard or costly to do this scene right.
The last one Mr. Yoga and I watched together was none of the above. It was a documentary (Marie and Jack.)
Of the genres listed, he has a definite preference for light romantic comedies. I like those, as well, and I also enjoy sci-fi. We normally have the best luck finding what we're looking for in the classics. Mr. Yoga prefers the actresses to be sweet and natural (no augmentations, piercings, tattoos). Classics often do a better job of integrating the sex and the plot and frequently seem to have better chemistry. (My wild ass theory is that the illegality of porn during the Golden Age may have fostered more camaraderie among the cast--more of a "we're in this together" spirit.)
However, I do appreciate many of the Wicked movies, and I don't think they necessarily need to be more like mainstream. We rarely enjoy mainstream movies, and I watch only two or three per year, as opposed to 50-80 adult movies per year. I'm hoping Mr. Yoga will want to view part or all of Space Nuts with me, as soon as I purchase it.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Oct 25 2003 : 2:38PM
I would pay lots of money to see Ewan Macgregor do a real sex scene in a mainstream movie.
For me, I prefer to see features that work well as movies on their own if the sex scenes were cut out, but yet have passioniate, believable sex. I rarely use the term couples sex because it means so many different things to different people. A porn tape that satisfies the male and female in my house could very well be something made in Germany and can't be sold in the US.
But I'll agree with all the others -- a porn feature should be the best of both worlds: story and sex. And on a personal level, I enjoy thrillers and light dramas or romantic light comedies the best in porn features. Although if a western were done really well, I could get into that too.
I find that comedy works for me, because it lends a non-threatening view of sex that's pertinent for couples'movie, unlike, say, send-ups of erotic thrillers where sex=death. I'va also found that though very few porn performers can handle drama, they can handle comedy pretty well. I often could not care for Jerome Tanner sex scenes, which I find totaly uninspired, but I'll often skip to his comedy bits ! How often do u get to fast-forward the sex in porn to get straight to the dialogue? Hmmmm, I'm not sure that's a compliment... But with the right performers, anything can work. "Penetrator 2" was surprisingly solid for an action send-up, due to an excellent director, great production values & inspired performers. On a different sub-genre, I'm anxiously awaiting the DVD realease of Paul Thomas "Heart of Darkness" , another one of his porn dramas. I saw the trailer on "Sold"'s DVD bonus, & it sure looks like a masterpiece!
Love...exciting and new Come aboard...we're expecting yooooou
I'm also a little skeptical about attributing too much importance to a movie's genre and am inclined to agree with Vodka Tonic; a good director, with the right cast, crew and resources can make a engaging adult movie in most genres.
I think the biggest challenge when making an adult feature is to achieve an appropriate balance between the sex and non-sex action. I do think that some genre's make it more difficult than others but that's actually a side effect of the self imposed structural constraints of the adult features. The real hindrance to a successful narrative feature is the fact that the narrative tends to be confined to five minute bursts between the bump and grid action.
Rather than asking which genres are most suited to adult features, I think a company like Wicked (whose movies I often enjoy) should be looking at the structure of their movies - specifically the excessive length of the sex scenes and corresponding lack of time allocated to the narrative sequences.
SDC
"If we couldn't have sex from time to time, what would life be? A futile struggle against joints that stiffen and caries that form."
I certainly don't agree that classics have high-production values, or that they are pretty to look at. Most of them were made on shoestring budgets with a pretty small field of potential actors. I for one remember the "classics" first hand, and I for one think they don't even come close to comparison with today's movies, especially for high-production values and being pretty to look at.
In response to your question, Daniel, I personally love Brad Armstrong's titles that don't really have a plot, but rather have a fantasy thread to them. Think Women In Uniform or Serenity in Denim . Great stuff!
We are of course free to disagree. But in terms of production values, I will take Opening of Misty Beethoven , Barbara Broacast , or Autobiography of a Flea over 99.99% of what is produced today.
The Golden Age truly was Golden.
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"The greatest argument for the existence of God, is the beauty of the female form." -- Blake_Fan
"The great ambition of women is to inspire love." -- Moliere (1622-1673)
Personally, I stopped buying features for reasons I've stated earlier. As we agree that a good feature is one that is made like a mainstream movie with explicit sex thrown in, I trust that we have similar expectations.
Therefore, I will take your recommendations and try out Opening of Misty Beethoven, Barbara Broacast and Autobiography of a Flea.
If you know of any other well made features in what we expected them to be, let me know.
You could try German Beauty from MMV ,it's not going to be as polished or well performed as the Kevin Spacey one but then , hey , it's got a fraction of the budget and talent . I've not seen it myself but the leading lady (Kelly Trump) is a very sexy woman so it can't be all bad .If you really want less sex but what's left in better integrated into the overall story then I can definitely recommend some European features . Mark Dorel , Mario Salieri and my only Pinko release all manage this far more successfully than the American films I've seen . Salieri in particular pays more attention to the acting and spends much more time setting up each scene . I think Steve Holmes wrote on this site how he would normally shoot 2 sex scenes in a day for most directors but Salieri only wanted 1 . I'm fairly sure I also read him say that these were the films he most enjoyed performing in as he always wanted to see the finished product . Course my memory is less than brilliant these days - must be all the porn .
Oh , of course some of these films are also Wicked features , I forgot ! Dirty Deals , Dangerous Woman , and The Panty Thief among others have all been released in the states by Wicked ( smart move ) . There are fine reviews of all these titles by Aybesea on this very site if you are interested . I know that I'm working my way through buying each of these films as they are very , very good .
Thanks for the recommendation, Lee. I've been toying with idea of trying some of Wicked's Dorcel releases and might now do so. I wasn't being disingenuous in my previous post, although I understand that suggesting less time be allocated to the sex may sound a little odd. I would reiterate that we're talking about features here and I do think that incorporating, for example, seven sex scenes, each with a duration of 10-12 minutes, into a 90(ish) minute running time seriously limits the scope for narrative development. As I've said before, I'm not expecting anything particularly profound when I put on an adult feature but I would rather see adult producers and directors dispense with the pretence of a narrative if they're not prepared to take it seriously.
Probably my favourite adult feature of last year was Rush - a well directed feature with credible performances and decent production values, which managed to achieve an admirable balance between the narrative and the sex. I don't see the fact that it operates within the thriller tradition as the decisive factor in its success.
SDC
"If we couldn't have sex from time to time, what would life be? A futile struggle against joints that stiffen and caries that form."
Action/Thriller scenes In action and thriller features, have proper action scenes. Hire a stuntman to do the actions if the porn stars can't act an action scene. What's the point of buying an action or thriller when the action scenes are poorly made.
Character Development Good couple movies have serious character development that is if the movie is about an alcoholic, for example, you need to have shots of him doing the booze without anything to do with sex.
Transitional Scenes To connect the various scenes, you need transitional scenes. This means if the actor says he's going to the store, show him leave the place and have him driving or walking to the store.
Outdoor Scenes The feature will only be realistic if there are outdoor scenes related to the plot. Outdoor does not refer to some one's private garden or pool but the real outdoor like streets, mall, post office, cafe etc. A feature without outdoors is like a woman without boobs. Watching an all indoor feature will surely defeat the purpose of watching a feature .
Multiple Camera Angles This is not refering the multiple angles found in porn. But most of the time, porn are shot in few camera angles whether the non-sex or sex part. There has to be more multiple camera angles. For example, if the actors are having breakfast, you need an angle for actor A, another from actor B, one side angle showing both actors and one angle from a far side. Likewise, this goes for the sex part. You need to show multiple angles during the sex act.
When all these are made right, you will find that people will watch most genre if the story is good.
I like Mario's movies but working for Mario is like a torture. He usually shoots 5 to 10 hours for a sex scene and takes forever for the dialogues. Often he shoots in old castles where it is cold and you wait hours and hours with little food and no place to rest.
I still like to be in his movies because I love his movies.
Thanks for correcting me Steve , that was what I meant to say but somehow the words came out all wrong . And English is supposed to be my first language ! I think I've also read you saying how you had been asking for 5 years to appear in one of his films before finally getting a part . Guess you really wanted to work for him ( torture and all ) !
SDC , re-reading my previous post makes me realise that it could be quite misleading to you . Not all Dorcel pictures have an equal emphasis on plot , and I'd hate you to pick up one of the more vignettey ones by accident . If you type Dorcel in the reviews box and do a search for keywords a good number of films come up . Reading around should hopefully help you make your mind up . For myself the next title on my list is gonna be a Laure Sinclair movie , maybe ' The Cost of Lust ' or ' The First Lady '.
