I can't remember where someone on this forum posted this statement, but i distinctly remember reading this statement. Can someone clarify this for me, and if this is indeed true, why???
wow that is not right . . . they should NOT get more pay!! What's fucking special about them?? NOTHING, and whomever gives in and pays these broads is just as DUMB.
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 17 2009 : 7:17PM
In sex, there is a trade. You want that...you pay me this. Prostitutes and escorts have their prices too: handjob: $X, bj: $y, vaginal/straight sex: $z, anal: $w, you want me to pee on you: that's $U. If all sex activitry were the same, with same price, same risks attached, matter of personal tastes, bizarre fetishes, well...
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tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Sep 17 2009 : 11:22PM
A vanilla sex scene with a proven black male performer like Sean Micheals or Mr. Marcus is no more "risky" than doing it with a white performer. So the only justification for demanding more money is the relative scarcity of the BM/WF pairing since more than half of porn performers DON'T do IR. I realize a market is a market, but don't try to suggest doing black men demands hazard pay. It is insulting. Edited by - tritone on 9/17/2009 11:23:23 PM
In the past "more pay for IR" had two basic reasons. The first one goes back to the days (1970s, 80s) when white female performers were told (by agents, directors, porn journalists--and, yes, boyfriends) that they would lose white fans in the US if they did b/g IR. And, consequently, they would get fewer jobs, or not work in the best Features because they were "tainted." Although this reasoning was NEVER true, the fear-factor lasted for a long time. So while some big stars like Ginger Lynn, Amber Lynn, Jamie Summers, and Silvia Saint worked with black men and didn't lose fans, other stars like Savannah, Racquel Darrien, Samantha Strong, Jenteal, and Sunset Thomas never crossed the b/g color line. The second, old time, reason for higher pay for IR is based on the "first time" pay scale in porn, where a performer gets paid more for her first IR, anal, dp, etc. Nowadays, if a girl doesn't usually do IR, anal, dp, facial, etc., (all of which should be respected as the performer's "choice") a producer/director will offer her more to shoot her in one of her "few" scenes of this type. Porn producers believe that any performer will do any act, if offered enough money. Cynical, yes...but porn makers will pay more for anything the buyers don't usually see a performer do. In the porn biz, this is what passes for "creativity" or being "bold."
Probably a big urban legend. There were plenty of female performers in the 1970's and 1980's that did IR scenes. Admittedly there were very few black performers in those early days. Marilyn Chambers made her hard core debut doing IR scene with Johnnie Keyes. Did it hurt her career, and it was a big deal in 1972! All-black videos did not really emerge until the mid 1980's, and video companies that specialized either in all-black or in IR videos a few years later. That attitude, that IR scenes ruin a female porn actress career, came very much later, with the emergence of large companies who wanted to sell their product to a large(r) segment of the country. These companies were and remain extremely protective of their product and may suggest that IR scenes would "damage" a perfomer's viability and profitability. They are just protecting their interests. It's like in the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's with the Hollywood studios and moguls telling their actress/actor pool not to do TV work becase it would damage their film careers. Baloney! A lot of actors and actresses did TV work even in the early days of TV (just check out their filmografies at IMDB, and you will see for yourself) and it did not damage their movie careers (Loretta Young did phenomenally well on TV). Edited by - Len801 on 9/18/2009 12:29:51 PM
I realize at one point in time during porn's "evolution" (ha) that it was detrimental to a white girl's career in the south: selling porn mags, porn vids, dancing if a girl fucked black men professionally. But in the past fifteen years with the saturation and successfull sales of black guy/white girl releases that might be more of a selling point to overcome racism. It's why Obama got elected. (Although if his wife had been white, hmmm) So why the need today for "hazard pay"? Tradition?, lack of willingness on the girl(s)' part? Is this one niche that is more of a performer's market than a production market so they get more in their pay envelope?
First of all: to what degree has it been satisfactorily documented that a female performer will demand and will get a higher pay if she performs a scene with a black actor, as against a similar scene with a whitre actor? Then there is the possibility or question of an actress who may allude or insunuate that it may hurt or seriously damage her present or future career if she were to perform an IR scene, and may request a little more money. Then there is the question of supply and demand and actual personal preferences. Perhaps there are few white actresses who are willing to have sex on screen with a male black actor, and perhaps there may be fewer still who on a personal level would not want to perform (regardless of the money involved) with a black actor. Perhaps both the large video producers and female talent are dancing to the same rhythm but with different music. The company may suggest to their female talent pool not to do or refrain from doing IR scenes, and perhaps the female actress thinks that if it's such a big deal that she may as well get higher pay if she does decide to do them. I have seen both famous and not so famous actresses from the 1970's to the present day do IR scenes and I really don't know to what degree they may have been targeted or financially boycotted as a result, or that their careers have been severely affected. Since we don't hear about such complaints, one would surmise that like in the old Hollywood days, that if an actress is popular or big enough she will find satisfactory work somewhere. One company's loss, may be someone else's good fortune...
Don't care who gets paid what, surely porn stars have agents or can negotiate pay themselves, it's the way it is the world over regardless of job title. You get paid in accordance to demand and you negotiate accordingly, can't see the problem. Edited by - jonny jay on 9/18/2009 5:36:04 PM, poor spelling sorry. Edited by - jonny jay on 9/18/2009 5:39:24 PM
This argument that performers shouldn't get more money for IR seems to be pretty ridiculious. Performers should be able to get the amount of money that they feel fit for any sexual act. If a performer will only do IR for said amount of money and non IR for less that is their right. Their is nothing wrong with that. No matter what the reasons are and they are different for every performer. It is also their right not to perform IR. They have that option. It could be they just aren't attracted to certain ethnicity, just feel it is a good career move or even flat out racists. It could be any reason and that is their right. So whatever they want to charge for a performance of any variety is their right. It's a business plan and simple.
"Back in the days"? LOL. This happens all the time my friend...RIGHT NOW. As in TODAY.Any performer WILL do any act if offered enough money. So will you. Why is that cynical? I know lots of people outside of porn that will DO ANYTHING for the right money. Or, almost anything...but certainly fuck a black dude. In the porn biz, this is what passes for "making money" and nothing more.
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tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Sep 19 2009 : 1:50AM
How would you like it if you went to an escort and you later found out she charged you $500 more than she did other guys. You did the same sexual acts for the same amount of time and met the same screening criteria. Only difference is, you were one race and all the other guys were NOT of that race. I guess you feel there is nothing wrong with that. Sure, she can ASK whatever she wants, it is her right. I'm saying it's wrong in PRINCIPLE.
Wow, it's amazing how many people don't understand supply and demand. A performer is a supply of one, and it is only reasonable to think that she's going to demand what the market will bear. Porn producers shoot IR scenes because they sell, folks. If I knew that Jizzy Jay was likely to move twice as many units because I was going to do an IR scene for him then I'd damn well charge him more for my services, too.
That may be true, but there is the element of racism that bothers me (because i'm "WHITE/FEMALE" i DEMAND more and you better pay it!!) DO YOU HEAR OF OTHER PERFORMERS (MALES OR EVEN BLACK/Latin/Asian FEMALES) GETTING THIS TYPE Prima-Donna "PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT"? I am just a person observing from the outside so perhaps i'm a little naieve, but to me it seems very classist/racist when you cater to one element within the industry and everyone else (minorities) just puts up or shuts up and should just be "grateful" to be in it (the porn industry)!!
Free market principals used to justify racism? Let's extrapolate and use the market to justify hiring female performers for snuff films. That would be ridiculous, right? I'm just following your market based justifications to an ultimate. The industry shouldn't encourage or pay for behavior that is prohibited in general society. Behavior that evidence over a couple of hundred year has proved to be harmful to society as a whole. The market promotes every man for himself and ignores that we all are in this together. We need to restrain some of our more primitive impulses. It's their right to choose not perform with anyone on an individual basis. There is no right to discriminate based solely on race. In fact there is a slew of laws that prohibit that very thing. Jim Crow was legislated out of existence, thank God, I enjoy shopping at Abercrombe's Edited by - ntfighter on 9/19/2009 1:25:23 PM
Wrong! Some performers in the biz will not do ANYTHING for money. Example: Jenna Jameson went her entire 10+ year career without doing anal. Do you think she was NOT offered a shitload of money, even in her last year, to do on-camera anal? Of course she was. But that was an on-camera sex act that she not willing to do--for any price. [If you read her autobiography, you'll find that she did have anal sex in her private life. It's her performing life where she drew a line.] Yes, IMO it is a "cynical" viewpoint that believes that EVERYONE in porn can be brought for the right price. It's saying: because a performer agrees to do on-camera sex, they don't have enough will-power to say "no" and mean it, that they are sexually without any limits, and that they only care about money. There are examples where this is true, but that does NOT mean it is true of ALL performers. That's what makes what you say cynical.
Some women will never do IR for no amount of money...the only amount they will settle for is the kind you offer a straight guy to do another man. Ridiculous amount...like hundreds of Gs or millions. I think the girls who fit that profile are Ashlynn brooke, Vicky vette, Stormy daniels, Penny posrche, Jenna jameson, Tera patrick... Edited by - Nimrod on 9/19/2009 2:07:49 PM
Uh, please stop shouting. You are the one who is labeling what is going on as 'preferential treatment'. Again, that doesn't prove that the performers are considering what is going on to be getting preferential treatment. As has been pointed out, somebody who is truly racist isn't going to do an interracial scene for love or money. Rather than trying to have it both ways, I consider the possibility that performers are motivated by something else. Since this is the US of A, home to Capitalism Run Rampant, the obvious 'something else' is free market forces.
All that proves is that she wasn't offered enough. There's a practical limit to how much anyone could pay her (or anyone) to do something they are reluctant to do, because the producer still needs to make money on the deal.
I agree that a true racist woman will never do a black man for few thousand dollars just like a straight guy won't do a man for a few thousands. When we are talking millions, that is another story.
Fao, RiveGauche1999 I agree with you to a point that white female performers should not be paid any different to their black counter parts, they are no better than the black girls, true and do the same work, granted, I have already mentioned earlier on in this thread economic forces (supply, demand etc.,) as well as many others notably Hardware, and there is some credence to this point, however i will try to explain it from another angle as to why, IMO it is accepted even though it appears to yourself unacceptable. You cited principles as the reason why there should be no differentiation in pay, however I sense the principles you speak of are deep rooted in real world values, well western democratic values to be more precise. These principles you speak of we find in our daily work and life i.e., equal opportunity regardless of race, creed, sexuality etc., and I totally agree with it too. However these principles become blurred the moment any form of sexual activity occurs because the same framework that applies to every day work and life just cannot be applied. It's impossible to apply equal opportunities to sexual acts as the choices we have and the parameters of our decisions change from social values to personal values and it is from this point everything changes. It's our personal values and preferences that determine our decision as to whom we choose to perform sexual acts with. If a white female performer prefers to work with white male performers that is her personal choice, if a white female performer is asked to work outside her preferences it is her personal choice to determine the conditions. If a company is willing pay a white female performer a fee outside the going rate because the conditions she sets are at a higher premium for work outside her preference it is their choice if they choose to do so. The same applies to a black female performer who's preference maybe to work with black male performers she too can set the conditions for herself to work outside her preferences. So we go full circle and arrive at economic forces of supply and demand in relation to pay and costs. I wish it was not like that but i can only see it changing by forcing all performers to accept what the companies going rate is and withdrawing all choices to whom they have sex with, now surely you agree that would not be right? That would be an infringement of our rights, a restraint of trade and unfair employment conditions, leaving you with no room for manoeuvre when it comes to the principles that you speak of. Edited by - jonny jay on 9/19/2009 8:32:47 PM
As a previous poster wrote, how difficult is it to understand supply and demand? Individuals have a right to perform with whom they want based on whatever criteria they choose. If they demand more pay for certain acts of acts with certain races and they get it then fine. How removed are some of you from mainstream society--especially white and Asian communities--that you don't realize there is still a stigma attached to IR with blacks? Not talking right or wrong, talking reality. White chicks who fuck blacks get subjected to a lot more BS from family, friends, neighbors, whatever. If you don't realize that then you're in la-la land. Let 'em demand a premium price, who cares? Damn, there's enough real injustice, racial and otherwise, going on no need get all in a huff about some skanks and how much they charge to fuck whomever. Edited by - email77 on 9/19/2009 8:16:54 PM
Totally agree. It's a business and it only makes sense to make as much as you can if the demand is there. Even if a girl loves anal why shouldn't she charge more for it if she can. If a girl doesn't want to perform with Ron Jeremy but a director wants her badly enough to pay her more to do it, what's wrong with that? If a girl doesn't want to work for a particular studio or director and the director offers her enough money to make her do it, what's wrong with that? If a girl doesn't want to do a creampie scene an someone wants to see her do one badly enough and offers her more money to do it, what's wrong with that? If I'm a director and I badly want say...Alexis Texas to do a IR scene in my movie and she says no, if I want her badly enough I'll offer up more money with no problem. If it takes paying her double the normal rate to get her to say yes and I think it's worth it and I can make my money back from it in publicity, sales and new customer exposure, I'd pay it and not think any less of her.I'm surprised these guys care as much as they do. They aren't being charged extra for it. It's not like the performance is going to be any better if the girl charaged a lesser fee. Does anyone actually watch a scene worrying about how much the girl was paid to do it? Silly stuff to be concerned with unless you're the one actually paying the girl.
Surely everyone wants to be paid more, if you have an asset thats desired use it. I mean most people appear to be in the business a short period of time, during that time maximise the money you can earn. In fact if you were managing one of these girls wouldn't you hold off on IR to begin with, then generate hype and thus increase the fee. Good luck to all porn stars in what they can get, both male and female. There seems to be a sense of jealousy here.
If you know some girl in the bizz and you have a bigger issue with her taking a single black dick than her taking 3 or 4 white ones at the same time, than you are a racist, plain and simple. Anyway I have no problem with stars getting paid more for IR. I want those do IR to be more sucessful than those that don't. It's when it's this cat and mouse game over how much one can get for it that it becomes insulting.
Exactly. I'm a black guy who likes IR and would like to see someone like Alexis Texas but I think from a business standpoint I understand at this point in her career there's no real strong reason for her to do IR. She obviously has a gameplan when it comes to her career and it seems to be working great for her. She probably works as often as she wants. She gets tons of boxcovers. She mostly works for the major studios. She's one of the most in demand stars in the biz. She was starting to slip a bit then she started doing anal and she shot right back to the top. She'll be able to ride this train for a good while before she needs to introduce a need element to her repertoire. I don't have much doubt Alexis will eventually do IR, it's just a matter of when. And there are other girls who I feel are in the same boat. In porn the goal should always be to extend the career by making as much as you can and not letting the fans grow tired of you or not having something new or different to give them. There's only so many things a girl can play off of to keep it fresh and sometimes you have to stretch it out.
Nah it's just funny how black female with white male is seen as all normal and the girls don't even get paid..but white girls with black male..all the registers have to get opened just to get the girls to do it. So why is it always the blacks that have to get the short end?
Well, maybe I'm wrong about Alexis but I was just using her as an example. The main point I was trying to make still applies. Some girls don't have a strong reason career-wise to do IR at this point in their career. They're doing just fine without it and need to keep something to exploit later on when their stardom begins to fade a bit.
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Sep 22 2009 : 8:09AM
i too think alexis will eventually do IR, come on homegirl ain't that much, why she's so famous is beyond me, she's not any better looking than the girls who usually do IR, just average, the only girls i think are hopeless when it comes to IR are some very attractive girls who have that "playmate" look, the kind of girl you can see how arrogant she is just by looking at her , those i don't think will ever do interracial because they truly believe they're too pretty for IR ..kelli stone (paige starr) comes to mind .. unfortunately :(
Edited by - braziliandude on 9/22/2009 8:13:21 AM
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Sep 22 2009 : 9:06AM
"It's impossible to apply equal opportunities to sexual acts as the choices we have and the parameters of our decisions change from social values to personal values and it is from this point everything changes. " i kinda agree with you, however i think this statement becomes heavy whenever "race" is attached to it, i mean, of course you can't expect to give an ugly guy the same opportunities as a good looking guy but when race becomes a determining factor in giving opportunities this statement sounds like something that would have been said in the 60's , like it's not a matter of how you look or how good looking you may be it's a matter of which race you belong to, you have to belong to a specific race to earn that right, you have to agree that sounds awkward, like it or not that's like validating racism and not only that, one of the issues i have with the american industry is that with all this "IR" or "no IR" thing racism became institutionalized and now it's somehow "ok" to openly discriminate, i think european porn is light years ahead, they assume all girls do IR and then the girls have the choice to do or not do the scene, that would be a good start, at least they would avoid dehumanization of certain races, in this case , african americans, the only race girls know they're certain to be asked to work with is blacks because interracial sells and is a predominant genre, they know they probably won't be asked to work with asians, native americans or whatever race, agencies don't ask girls if they will work with other races they ask them if they will work with BLACKS, that's unfair , thus only blacks become dehumanized, not to mention that in some cases the agency itself is racist and talks in the girl into not doing IR (that agency in LA ,is a racist agency and the guy who runs it is a well known racist, that's well documented , not going to mention his name but you all know who i'm referring to) and sometimes the girl is a contract girl of some racist company, isn't it strange how girls suddenly start having race issues when they go vivid ? i guess most of the time the problem is not personal or social values after all, nikki jayne is british, we all know british girls are interracial friendly, most of them do IR but just because she's with vivid she doesn't do IR ? what a coincidence ,weird isn't it ?
I think the reason so many make a big deal about Alexis is because a part of her fame/popularity comes from the fact she has a "Big Butt" and does lots of big butt movies. A large majority (not all) of girls who have that type of body and do those movies tend to do IR. Those movies also have a large black viewer following. So in many people's mind it kinda makes sense that she should be doing IR and they want to see it happen. Personally, I like looking at Alexis but don't think she that big a deal as a performer. If she did IR I'd be curious to see it but imagine I'd be bored with it after seeing it after time or two. It's a big deal about her doing IR because she hasn't done it (yet?) but I don't believe it's going to blow people away once the "forbidden fruit" aspect is gone.
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tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 12:41AM
Exactly. Imagine the reverse happening. A cute, girl-next-door white teen with HUGE natural tits and a slim build -- doing ONLY black guys. Appearing in video after video of tit-fucking, big-tit worship romps but with only black talent. Adorning SCORE magazine with photo shoots of with only BLACK male talent. Appearing in otherwise non-IR productions as the ONLY IR scene (w/ black male talent). Steadfastly refusing to appear with any other race except black guys. APPEARING ON EVERY BRAZZERS, Bangbros, Realtykings, Naughty Amercia site with DIFFERENT BLACK GUYS. OK, of course we black guys like tits too. Some of us LOVE them. But the general consensus in pornland is that BIG-TIT = white / BIG-BUTT = black,interracial. So how do YOU think many of the non-black big-tit fans are going to react? They're going to just be quiet and at least not ask WHY she won't appear with a white dude to further complete their fantasies? Remember, this would be a really cute girl. A Sara-Stone type that you just KNOW would normally be an IR dodger. The argument, of course, is that they wouldn't complain because they have so many other hot girls to view (the statement always given to us -- shut up and enjoy what you have). But you know how porn fans are. They always want the NEW girl doing what THEY want. The old girl might be hot, but she is still yesterday's news. I mean, this will probably never happen. But at least TRY to imagine the firestorm of complaints if this turned out to be true. Edited by - tritone on 9/23/2009 1:16:27 AM
You really think white guys would be mad that a hot white chick only did black guys....lol. Why? Because we only think about the color of our skin and a race agenda. No that's for the select few on this board who only think about that shit. Most people are level-headed and say let the performers do what they want with whom they want without thinking that it all a conspiracy and not just ones freedom of choice. I also feel that a majority of us would say that a performer should get as much money as she can...so if someone wants to pay her more for IR then more power to her and good for her.
^^..Because. History proves your belief isn't based in fact.
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tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 9:59AM
OK. But my rule is that you cannot make a single POST asking why xxx doesn't do white guys. You can't even be CURIOUS about it. Because if you are, you are on a "race agenda" as you say .. LOL. If she is super-hot then many will not be able to resist. Trust me. You only say you'd be understanding because the situation has never arisen (and probably never will).
Trying to keep this on topic "higher pay" I still find it funny that some of you have a problem with the whole notion of getting more money to do IR...and at the same time you want EVERY white performer to do IR. Is it too much to ask that you just be happy that they did an IR scene?
Posted - Sep 17 2009 : 10:11AM
