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| Digital Lust Self-removed All truth is parallel; All truth is untrue 768 Posts 10/11 |  Posted - Dec 15 2012 : 9:22AMMax Hardcore pushed American porn to its limits. However, after he was released from prison, he seemed pretty tamed especially when he said that he learned his lesson. Has Max Hardcore's situation made many producers/directors reluctant from going too far? Will there ever be someone who will make a Max Hardcore production look like vanilla porn? [Link] |
| JackSparrow Deactivated User 7235 Posts 7/11 | Posted - Dec 15 2012 : 11:43AM [Link] |
| ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08 | Posted - Dec 15 2012 : 3:30PM Look at Buttman, who revolutionized porn by simply paying tribute to the booty and developing/popularizing a different shooting style. There have been very few innovators in the wold of porn. IMO. [Link] |
| mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 15 2012 : 10:04PM As for actually pushing the legal limits I think it may be Matt Williams with Sexually Broken or Princess Donna with Hardcore Gang Bang. Matt doesn't have any shooting rules from Corporate to follow so my money is on him, maybe PD (Intersec's owner) can be added to the list as well with sites he actively directs although he has been pushing it legally for years. I think Claire Adams would also be a contender if she didn't have to follow Kink's shooting rules. [Link] |
| LeyaFalcon Senior Member Something Else 1000 Posts 12/12 | Posted - Dec 15 2012 : 10:24PM [Link] |
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| mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 1:30AM [Link] |
| scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12 | Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 2:00AM [Link] |
| LeyaFalcon Senior Member Something Else 1000 Posts 12/12 | Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 2:06AM [Link] |
| Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 7:48AM I also would like to know how you feel about porn fans in this forum urging your to have more anal sex with guys in your films? There is some disagreement about such talk in this forum. Some people say that it's wrong. It's forcing you to do something that you don't want to do. But I say that it's okay for porn fans to express their fantasies and feelings about porn stars they like openly and honestly, as long as they do it politely and don't mean any disrespect. Sports fans in stadiums often shout to the players during the game about what they want to see them do in the game. And this is considered a good thing, because such participation makes the fans feel a part of the game. They become bigger fans as a result of such participation. I think it works the same way for porn fans too. When porn fans are allowed to urge the porn lady they like to have anal sex with guys, then these fans become her bigger fans. They start following her career and checking out the movies she makes in the hope that some day she will fulfill their anal-sex-fantasy about her. [Link] |
Gore Gore Girl  Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09 | Posted - Dec 16 2012 : 5:57PM [Link] |
| mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 2:39AM [Link] |
| LeyaFalcon Senior Member Something Else 1000 Posts 12/12 | Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 2:59AM Edited by - LeyaFalcon on 12/17/2012 3:00:21 AM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 3:08AM But getting back onto topic, if we're talking about pushing the levels of porn beyond the same extreme levels that people like Max Hardcore, Rob Black, and Khan Tusion did, then I don't see anyone currently in the industry going in that direction. This is due both to fear of possible backlash from opponents, as well as to the current antiseptic climate of American porn. For the porn envelope to be pushed that far again, it would most likely only be by a new up-and-coming pornographer not already in the industry, and who has enough money to produce independently so he wouldn't be restricted by the corporate restrictions of the existing mainstream porn companies, and who would probably be based somewhere outside of Los Angeles. I don't see any of the L.A. producers or companies that are around deciding to do that. [Link] |
| Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09 | Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 12:32PM [Link] |
| mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 17 2012 : 4:51PM [Link] |
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| scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12 | Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 4:23AM Most fashion trends go back to the start, but once people have seen triple anal, where else is there for them to go? [Link] |
| heythatguy Member 65 Posts 11/11 | Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 9:42AM i've noticed facialabuse is much tamer these days as well, often using only one guy per scene rather than the 2 to 3 they used to have. [Link] |
| pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10 | Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 11:56AM [Link] |
| Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10 | Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 12:43PM Attractive, desirable and sexy women, with some skills and an appealing on-screen personality, having one-on-one sex with credible studs, who get hard, stay hard and blow a decent load. Is this too much to ask? Bonus points for the studs and production teams treating the girls with some dignity and respect. We've been traveling down the road to misogyny for far too long already, and I've had enough. [Link] |
| mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 7:28PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 8:52PM [Link] |
| pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10 | Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 9:08PM [Link] |
| hardy83177 Member Katy Perry melted my popsicle. 243 Posts 5/10 | Posted - Dec 23 2012 : 10:42PM [Link] |
| pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10 | Posted - Dec 24 2012 : 12:35PM https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/clayra-beau-or-clara-beau/12 Edited by - pat362 on 12/24/2012 12:36:02 PM [Link] |
| Digmen1 Member 629 Posts 7/07 | Posted - Dec 24 2012 : 2:47PM Once you've gone black you can't go black! ((he he) Judging from your avatar - you husband is a lucky guy. I have not seen any of your videos yet Yes I think trains are much sexier than ordinary gangbangs Edited by - Digmen1 on 12/24/2012 2:49:18 PM [Link] |
| hardy83177 Member Katy Perry melted my popsicle. 243 Posts 5/10 | Posted - Dec 25 2012 : 7:47PM [Link] |
| davebowman Member 294 Posts 6/09 | Posted - Dec 26 2012 : 10:09AM [Link] |
| pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10 | Posted - Dec 26 2012 : 1:52PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 26 2012 : 3:53PM For example, before anal gaping was a big thing, it was already a huge part of my fantasy life. I idly wished that porn could be made that focused exclusively on anal and anal gaping but I figured it was probably an unrealistic fantasy because most of the porn that was available to me at the time seemed pretty tame compared to what I had in mind. I was pretty surprised when it started to appear. It seemed odd to me that different people who had never communicated with one another would have the same very specific "fetish". (But that's beside the point) Anyway, I think it's reasonable to say that limits had to be pushed for something like that to be a regular thing in anal themed porn. But once they went there, they really didn't need to push the limits any (or much) farther. I have never grown bored with it. Only when it is done very poorly is it boring and not worth seeing. They can add things like anal speculums, better lighting, creative camera work in order to show the gapes in creative ways and in more detail but I don't need them to get "more extreme". I simply want them to keep doing it well. I won't complain if they occasionally try something a little off the beaten path but if they're pushing limits just to say they did, that's pretty pointless. I never saw the appeal in double anal or triple anal (I don't even know if I ever saw the latter). I don't mind seeing DP with one in the ass and one in the pussy but double anal seems silly to me. It's one of those things that seems like pushing the limits just because. Though I guess it probably does have it's fans. Anyway, I do have some extreme "fetishes" but they were there many years ago. For me, it doesn't get any better than uncensored bukkake when it's done well. It's perfect porn in my opinion. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/26/2012 3:56:45 PM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 27 2012 : 12:35PM It is true that peoples' ideas of "pushing the limits" differ. But if we look at the OP's post, it is clear that he's talking about the extreme type of acts that we used to see in movies by people like Max Hardcore, whom he specifically mentions. It is definitely true that no one makes movies like that anymore for the same reasons that I stated in my previous post in this thread. I think that's the point that the OP was making. For example, I would love to see a comeback of male-on-female pissing scenes. There used to be sites dedicated to that fetish, such as YellowDiscipline and PissMops. But they're all gone now, and no one shoots them anymore. And Please, no one say that it's because it's illegal. I'm tired of hearing people say that, and it's not true. Just because everyone seems to think it's illegal doesn't mean that it is. The same thing goes for several other extreme fetishes that we used to see, but don't see anymore. We used to see age-play scenes with girls dressed in young apparel, such as in the Jailbait series, but no one does that anymore either. We also don't see rape scenes anywhere in porn. While it's perfectly acceptable to shoot scenes of women dominating men, women dominating women, and men dominating men, it has somehow become forbidden to show men dominating women. And if anyone dares say Kink.com, I'm going to hurl. Anytime Kink has come to be what passes for extreme porn, then that is enough evidence to show that American porn is now in a sorry state of tameness. Basically, I would love to see the return of pissing, age-play, and female resistance in porn. But as the OP said, ever since Max Hardcore (the only American pornographer who combined all those elements into his scenes) went to jail, then everyone else became too scared to do any of it. For it to reappear, it would have to be by someone new to the industry who isn't afraid to take risks. No one who is already situated in the L.A. porn industry is going to do it. [Link] |
| map47 Member 92 Posts 1/09 | Posted - Dec 27 2012 : 2:44PM someone mentioned Buttman that to me is pushing the boundaries in a sex positive way as opposed to the MAX HARDCORE stuff which was not to my taste.but to each their own as they say! but hopefully they will put some heat back into porn in the future! [Link] |
| shark1 Senior Member 1219 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 28 2012 : 12:15AM [Link] |
| Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09 | Posted - Dec 28 2012 : 12:45AM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 28 2012 : 2:04AM A.) They seemed to do just fine when they were being produced. Also, due to the absence of these fetishes in the current market, it would stand to reason that someone producing them would easily capitalize from the fans who like this stuff, but can't find it anywhere. Max Hardcore was popular because he was the only one shooting what he shot. The same is true for all popular directors who shoot unique content. How do you think Kink is so popular if not for the fact that it's basically the only BDSM site around that everybody talks about? The demand for this type of content is there. But the supply is not. Someone providing the supply would be able to profit from it. B.) Excessive legal fees for what? Who is going to prosecute them? The Obscenity Task Force has been disbanded, and now that we have a federal administration that has taken a laissez-faire attitude toward porn and hasn't began one single major obscenity charge within the last four years, people are still hiding behind excuses of legality. It's bullshit. [Link] |
| Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09 | Posted - Dec 28 2012 : 1:13PM B. Again, says you. Its like this. Over the past several years, Hardcore went to jail and lost his company (if I recall correctly), Stagliano had legal issues which he won, but still it probably wasn't cheap, but since he's on top of the heap he could afford it better than most. Rob Black also had legal issues based on content. If you're a smaller company scratching out a living in today's porn world, do you want to rock the boat and incur major legal fees or do you want to maintain the status quo. There have been complaints on here from producers about how much of a bath they are taking because of the piracy issue. If they don't have enough $$$ to stop that issue, do you think they'd have the $$$ to defend against nusciance lawsuits that could arise from any city or state that might want to file an obscenity case against them because they inadvertantly might have shipped a disk to a minor or sent material produced for a Euro release to a say Oklahoma? [Link] |
| Bobbitos Member 237 Posts 8/11 | Posted - Dec 28 2012 : 8:38PM [Link] |
| pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10 | Posted - Dec 28 2012 : 9:13PM My theory as to why they don't is because there aren't enough people willing to pay for his kind of porn so producing would be a sure way to lose large sums of money. [Link] |
| Gunzo Senior Member 1377 Posts 2/05 | Posted - Dec 28 2012 : 9:33PM [Link] |
| killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08 | Posted - Dec 29 2012 : 12:59AM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 29 2012 : 2:26AM Do you think Brazzers got rid of the Pornstars Punishment site because it wasn't making any money? No. It made more money from that site than it does from any of its other sites. But because the site was criticized as promoting rape fantasy, they got rid of it due to outside threats that pressured them into closing the site down. If it was solely about sales, then the site would still be up. Case in point, I once contacted one director who shoots deepthroat/gagging scenes that cause a lot of the girls on the site to puke while deepthroating (and No, it's not FacialAbuse). But in the scenes, all the puking parts are cut out. We know this because there is always a noticeable cut in the scene right before the parts when it looks like the girl is about to puke. I asked the director why he always cuts out the puking scenes instead of leaving them intact. He told me that he would prefer to leave the scenes intact because he also likes it when the girls puke, but he has to cut them out because the company that owns the site won't allow it to be shown. Why, you ask? He said it's because they're afraid of being charged with obscenity if they show vomit. I tried arguing this with him, but he said they were the company's rules, not his. He's not the only director who I have heard say this. I say all this to say that whenever I ask anyone who actually works in the industry why no one shoots extreme content anymore, they never say it's because it's because it doesn't make any money. The answer is always the same, which is either because they think it's illegal, or they're afraid of backlash. If it's a director who doesn't own the content he shoots, he may possibly be restricted by someone above him on the corporate ladder. Whatever the case, the reason given rarely has anything to do with not being able to sell it. B. So you agree that it's fear. This is exactly why I say that the only way we're likely to see this type of content again is if someone comes along who can afford to produce and distribute his own independent scenes, and who isn't afraid to take risks. Max Hardcore was one of the only people in porn who fit both those categories. I'm not satisfied with the excuse that says, "We're stuck having to shoot the most boring shit imaginable because we're afraid someone might prosecute us for something that isn't even illegal." If that's their way of thinking, then what are they doing making porn? If they're too afraid to do anything, then they should get the hell out the industry and make room for someone else who isn't afraid to push the envelope. [Link] |
| Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10 | Posted - Dec 29 2012 : 4:37PM And, just what kind of vomit are we talking about here? The girl blows chunks because she bit off a little more than she could handle (marginally tolerable), or, the ever popular puking-her-guts-out as a result of misogynistic face-fucking her like a rag-doll sperm-receptacle, beyond decent respect for her as a human being? Ca-ching$$$ Has anyone tried having the girl vomit while she is airtight with double penetrations, yet? Better yet, maybe she can vomit with two cocks in her mouth, and lose control of her bowels while taking double-anal penetration -- all at the same time. Of course, then some "fanboy" will be bitching about why she wasn't made to lick both messes up [o\|] [Link] |
| pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10 | Posted - Dec 29 2012 : 9:40PM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 30 2012 : 2:26AM While vomit is just one example, it doesn't even have to be that. It can be any extreme act that we no longer see, such as any of the numerous others I've also already mentioned in this thread. It is the unreasonable reactions to them that have caused everyone in porn to be afraid to produce them. Everyone is too afraid of offending someone. Therefore, porn doesn't push its limits anymore. And Yes, seeing the same thing over and over again in every single scene is boring, unless you also just happen to be the same type of person who likes eating the same thing for dinner every night. [Link] |
| mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 30 2012 : 3:18AM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Dec 30 2012 : 3:47AM The problem in the porn world is that ordinary people are looking mostly for money and not necessarily for the realization of their fantasies. So they go and work with infamous sadists and then wonder what went wrong. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/30/2012 3:49:33 AM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 30 2012 : 5:54AM And even if it is sadistic, so what? A lot of us like that. I don't get why people talk about sexual sadism like it's a bad thing. We see women allowed to be sadists all the time in porn, whether it's with a man or another woman. I don't know where this stupid idea came from that says men can't be sadists in porn anymore (unless, of course, it's a gay scene). But I really wish people would stop believing it.What should it tell you? It tells me that perhaps they could hire different girls, but agents won't allow their models to work for the site because the site is not "respectable" enough. That happens a lot, you know. There are girls who would be more than willing to do extreme scenes, but their agents block them from doing it. Or maybe girls just hear people saying so many bad things about certain companies/sites/directors, that they decide not to work for them based just on that hearsay, or because they consider themselves above those types of scenes. Some porn girls have this "diva" attitude where they'll only perform standard vanilla sex, and anything else besides that is considered not worthy of their talents. [Link] |
| pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10 | Posted - Dec 30 2012 : 10:49AM I was a fan of the stuff Max did in the early days but he lost me as a fan when he started to do his circus acts. I'd also like to say that although he was found guilty because of the content he did. The accusation that were made against him were not necessarily because of the content as much as where the material was shipped to. If those movies had never been shipped to Florida then it's quite conceivable that Max would never have gone to jail. P.S: I think it's a good business decision for any company to avoid offending their customers. Afterall they are the people who will stop buying their products if they are offended. [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 30 2012 : 11:27AM We live in a society where if people are offended by something, they just can't make the easy decision not to patronize it, but they have to make it so that no one else can patronize it either. Just because you find something offensive or disgusting doesn't mean that you have to go out of your way to try to get everyone else to agree with you. There are a whole lot of things in porn that I personally find disgusting. But you know what I do? I just don't watch it. I couldn't care less about what kind of porn someone else chooses to enjoy. But apparently, there are a whole lot of people who are awfully concerned about the kind that I like to enjoy. [Link] |
| pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10 | Posted - Dec 30 2012 : 11:44AM I may be a little different than you because there aren't many thing that I find disgusting or offensive. There are some thing that I do but I won't get on a soap box and start spewing my views left and right unless someone else bringss up the subject in question. When that happens then I will put forth my view without actually attacking the person who said it. Now I may not always do a good job at that but writting is not for everyone so I sometime want to say something but can't find the right words to get my thoughts across so I sue the wrong ones. I think the days of anyone pushing porn limits is over. At least for the immediate futur. Max has been out of jail for a while now and even he isn't even doing more porn. Is it because of fear or simply that he realises that his brand of porn is not going to sell. At least not enough to make it worth his time. [Link] |
| scenic Member 46 Posts 12/12 | Posted - Jan 7 2013 : 11:00PM However, now you've seen posts from a woman/women who have filmed for Facial Abuse et al, and had terrible experiences, would that change your view? Would it stop you watching it, knowing that even although she was getting paid, the woman involved was having a terrible time? [Link] |
| A-ten Deactivated User 581 Posts 8/07 | Posted - Jan 8 2013 : 10:40AM [Link] |
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