I was just wondering, i just read a previous topic of women are exploited and someone wrote about how the sex scene take a toll on actresses physically. Why are there are few male talents. It seems exciting for a man to have sex with beautiful girls is it that hard for the men like Kelly Divine say on VladTV.com?
In the real world sex is its own point. In porn, putting on a show is the point of the sexual acrobatics. A different mindset is required. The reason the male talent pool is so small is because, relatively speaking, few men can do it, and the directors, who have to pay for the scene whether the guy works out or not, are loath to give a bunch of newbies a shot on their dime.
^^ You've lost me. Are you asking for 'porn' producers to shoot porn in one continuous take without interruption? I ask because I assume that most porn goes something like this: 1.a) shoot tease from angle 1 - take a break to set up the next shot 1.b) shoot tease from angle 2 - take a break to set up the next shot 2.a) shoot foreplay from angle 1 - take a break to set up the next shot 2.b) shoot foreplay from angle 2 - take a break to set up the next shot Etc. I'm not surprised it takes so much time; some mainstream directors can take all day to piece together a scene where two characters have a conversation. Think about it - every change in perspective requires setting up the camera(s), the lighting, etc. The wonder of it is that actors don't die of boredom. Edited by - hardware on 3/19/2013 5:47:49 AM
"My asshole just naturally opens up because that's what I want, I'm so horny for it" 8498 Posts 1/13
Posted - Mar 19 2013 : 6:00AM
A couple of days ago Aurora Snow wrote a new article for the Daily Beast. This is a section about the difficulties a lot of male talent can face on set, and should go some way to answering your question: Though less injury prone, men in porn don’t have it easy either. Men face the embarrassment of not being able to do their jobs—performance issues can lead to a very long day. Not all male performers are attracted to the women they work with, nor can they always perform with robotic consistency (hence the modest-sized pool of male talent) and all in front of an audience. If a male performer is only flying at half-mast, he may have to spend more time trying to get ready than actually performing. Fluffers are a myth, girls are rarely on set to prep the male talent (though some women have been known to act as personal fluffers for their boyfriends). Knowing that the entire crew is watching him fail only makes things worse. I’ve seen cameramen who live to double as performers and eagerly await moments like these. Thanks to the debut of Pfizer’s little blue pill in 1998, performance issues are less common than they use to be. Though most don’t admit it publicly, I believe the majority of men in porn use a prescription performance enhancer; it’s a tool of the trade. Slightly off topic, but I very much appreciate Aurora Snow's articles for this site, they have a refreshing honesty to them and dispell a lot of myths and stereotypes the cynics like to throw around.
It looks easy b.c the performers, directors and editors do such a good job. But the truth is that it isn't easy. Try performing in a room full of people. And usually it is the male talent that can mess up a scene. And for the girls multiply it by 10. Their prep can start hours before or even a day before depending on what kind of scene it is.
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Mar 19 2013 : 12:15PM
And, the guys need to keep getting it up over-and-over again, all day long -- and wait to be told when they can -- finally -- cum (the cumshot being just about the only single take in the entire process)
I was thinking that in addition to this, it really is a pretty thankless job as well. Most of the time customers don't want to see the guy's face or hear his voice. He's just supposed to be a faceless dick. He doesn't really get to be a character unless you're talking about someone like Rocco or Manuel Ferrara. It might be exciting a few times but I'm guessing it wears off quick and it takes a certain kind of mindset to get honest to goodness wood when you've done so many scenes with so many hot women. They pretty much get to live out every fantasy you could have and they probably end up doing a lot of stuff that does nothing for them sexually.This makes sense but then again. If you grab the average horny 20 year old guy off the street, he'll probably perform at least as good at the average noodle dick who keeps getting paid even though he's not performing well.
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Todd Gack Deactivated User
"Oh, of course. Todd Gack." 849 Posts 6/12
Posted - Mar 19 2013 : 8:38PM
Not sure I agree. A lot of 20 year old punks are going to have the opposite problem - get wood easily but cum too quickly. Edited by - Todd Gack on 3/19/2013 8:38:36 PM
Want to know why there are so few male performers in porn? Checkout the BTS of Gangbang Auditions 22. Sandra Romain humiliates this guy who wants to be a pornstar. The late Chico Wang brings this wanna-be pornstar guy in. Has him naked on coach with four guys from crew staring him down (because he has to be able to perform in front of several guys on set). Then Sandra Romain tells the guy to get his dick hard right now and fuck her. As the guy is struggling to get hard she is laughing at him, smacking him, etc. He tries to feel her up she says slaps his hand and tells him why can't you get hard yourself. Then she tells him to bend over and show her how to do doggy style. Finally she starts a countdown and tells him if you are not hard when I'm done counting you are fired. The guy cannot get hard, she makes him crawl off the set in disgrace.
Maybe but I'd still rather see five minutes of good sex culminating in an explosive cumshot then half an hour of humdrum sex featuring dudes who can't even get hard and who barely leak a few drops at the climax. I don't really see how they have too much to lose. We are mostly watching to see the women but if we didn't care about the cock at all, we wouldn't need the male talent to be there to begin with.
"My asshole just naturally opens up because that's what I want, I'm so horny for it" 8498 Posts 1/13
Posted - Mar 20 2013 : 4:24AM
From a male point of view, we are hugely dependent on the male performer because it is the male performer who brings out the pleasure in the woman. If the guy cannot perform, it becomes obvious very quickly, and the woman then has to pretend she's enjoying it, which is a turn off. That is not the woman's fault, she's just trying her best to keep the scene going and to keep us turned on. The problem is the male talent giving her nothing to go on. So it is true, in one sense, that the male performer has a thankless job because the attention is on the woman, but on the other hand if he is good then he is a big part of the reason, in effect, that we get off because his work is expressed through the pleasure of the woman. I'm not discounting the woman's role in getting herself off and pleasuring the man, because it is a two way process between both performers. But, for the sake of discussion, we are focusing on this issue from a male performer's perspective. If you think about it, it is just as much about the performance of the male as it is the female even though the focus is on the woman in the scene. It takes two to make a good fuck scene. Edited by - Mackochist on 3/20/2013 4:27:56 AM
From our experience with auditions the young guys can not get it up at all. The only guys that passed were in their 30ies, but even those were a minority. It is very simple, 90% or more of the guys can not get it up on a shoot. That's why many producers do not even want to try out new guys. Would you if you had a 90% chance of losing a lot of money on a scene? If the guy can't get it up, everybody else still needs to get paid. Jacco
Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04
Posted - Mar 20 2013 : 8:33AM
Really surprised that maintaining an erection is an issue at all anymore with viagra and its many readily available substitutes. I would have thought the main issue would be economics. Not enough work to go around and the studios happy to stick with the guys they have unless they find a really good-looking guy with a cut body and big dick.
The question there is why are thee so many young performers in gay porn , obviously a premium on young "twinks" . When I watch a milf/cougar scene , I really want to see a mature woman with a young guy .
You might find that you can get better results out of newbie guys if you try changing your shooting methods. Things like: 1. Get everyone off the set who doesn't need to be there. 2. Try using an all female crew 3. Even consider the notion that a guy doesn't have too get wood before sex can commence. For instance he could eat her pussy for awhile. With any luck that will get him up. And shots of guys getting erections while they lick pussy would actually be very arousing for some of us ;)
^ I agree with you, but from a director's standpoint, why go through all that trouble for a new guy when you have a reliable performer available who doesn't need the special treatment? I think that's the thought process. Sure, there are ways to help new guys out and with some adjustments the new guys might turn out to be great performers. But it seems each director has a rotation of 3-5 guys he/she uses on a regular basis and he/she is satisfied with that. They get along with these performers, they like the way their guys perform(even if we the audience don't, there has to be a reason guys I/you/we don't like still get a lot of work)...they're not gonna stop giving work to their regular guy just to bring in a new guy who they have to change their shooting style for.
"My asshole just naturally opens up because that's what I want, I'm so horny for it" 8498 Posts 1/13
Posted - Mar 20 2013 : 1:54PM
This works in the short-term but in the long-term if you do not bleed new guys in how will they ever become experienced and learn to be good performers? Eventually, all the current top male talent will retire and you will be left with nothing but inexperienced male talent. The way I see it, the porn industry is no different to any other businesses - at some point, an employer/director/manager has to take a gamble on somebody new and guide them the best they can. Not everybody turns out no matter how much you put into them and, in the harsh world of business, they get cut loose and make way for the next new blood. Nevertheless, that element of trusting on a gamble has to be made for any business to evolve and for money to be made.
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Mar 20 2013 : 2:36PM
How did James Deen break into the industry? And, let's find a way to do it some more Honestly, I'm so sick-and-tired of so many of the silver-backs hanging on and/or being go-to guys because they are known commodities. There's got to be a way to nurture new male talent. And, it's in the industry's best interests to do so. We love the girls, but the studs often make or break the scene. I can't tell you how many times, over the years, that a lackluster performance by the stud has ruined scenes -- scenes that I have sought out -- of my hot-button "fanboy" girls (to the point that I totally just lose interest in the scene). At least nowadays we don't get stuck buying the DVD or wasting a rental just to find out that the scene sucks.
The problem with those supposedly is that they completely ruin the pop shot. The guy will be able to get it up, but he won't be able to ejaculate, or it will be a really small amount once he does.
I wasn't saying that it was a good business model I was saying that this seems to be the thought process behind the amount of male performers. IMO though, you can't really 'learn' how to be a good male performer. You either are or you aren't. I think if a guy is a good performer and has everything it takes to be a good porn stud, he will stand out himself and he won't need a lot of special treatment and a hundred second chances. Someone asked how james deen broke in, well he impressed eon mckai at his first shoot ever. Eon told people about him and people started hiring him. He didn't have to be given chance after chance, he was just reliable from the start. So I think directors are willing to give new guys a shot, they just know how to tell if a guy can be successful or not.
Great point. I am surprised Porno Dan doesn't get fucked over more often by limp dicks doing his "Fuck a Fan" series. My understanding is that he uses three guys for each episode and at least one (and sometimes two) always manages to get and keep his dick hard enough to fuck for the series.
Well, again. People end up buying a lot of scenes filled to the brim with noodle dicks anyway. It's not like they throw the scene away and don't use it just because the dude was limp. And not mentioning names but I have seen a lot of guys who are always limp in every single scene and they keep getting hired. If the director knows this guy is going to be limp anyway, where does he lose if he takes a chance with an unknown?
I don't watch gay porn, so I can only speculate that if they can't get it up then they can still take it up the ass. Should there be some sort of farm system where guys have to demonstrate their cocksmanship in granny porn or BBW porn?
^^Because I don't think he means limp as in not rock hard (which is what you probably mean when referring to current performers). I think he means limp as in completely flaccid, and couldn't even screw if he wanted to.
The difference is that porn talent are usually not employees but freelancers. You don't see a lot of businesses offering job training to freelancers. Freelancers take care of their own training. In porn it does not make sense to spend a lot of time finding and training new male talent as very rarely is male talent being put under an exclusive contract. So guys who want to be pornstars have to train themselves and there are plenty of ways to do that. Jacco
Goldstein, I just know I remember someone else calling James Deen the Little Mope that Could sometime in the year before or after he was named AVN Male POTY. Aside from his own assets, talents, abilities, etc. I guess he was fortunate to come along in an era when there was a need to try out a lot of new guys for group scenes, and when there were several different directors shooting 'alt' porn who wanted to try different guys even for one on one scenes. I'm not sure how early in his career he hooked up with Joanna Angel, but I'm sure that certainly didn't hurt his career any giving him a chance to shoot camera, direct, and edit as well as perform in various Burning Angel productions. I have seen some ultra lame scenes of girls with the their boyfriends. It's possible a lot of those boyfriend only cuties would shoot surprisingly boring scenes even with professional porn studs, I suppose, but I'd also be surprised if those skinny ass boyfriends would be any better with established female performers.
^^^^^ James Deen's association with Joanna Angel and Burning Angel clearly helped his career a great deal. Joanna seems to be willing to nurture new male talent to some degree, although she nurtures new female talent a lot more. Still, getting in with a powerful woman in the business is obviously one of the best hopes a guy has of getting into straight porn.
^ *lol* That means that the hope of new male talent is limited by the number of powerful women in the business. And how big is that number? Of course there are several examples, but I think it is limited as well... So there is not much hope
James and joanna started dating a few years after James got into the business. Yea I agree that their relationship definitely added to his success, but it didn't help him 'break in' since they didn't know each other until he had already broken in. I actually don't really have a problem with the number of male talents in the industry right now. It doesn't bother me to see the same guys over and over again as long as they're reliable. I guess that's a different view than most and is what perpetuates the difficulty of guys breaking into the business, but it's how I feel.
Exactly, Telephone Bill. Limp as in so small and soft it recedes into its attached cubbyhole and shuts/locks the cubbyhole door. Sort of what a straight guy's dick does at the mere mention of two dudes french kissing and fucking each other up the ass.
Over 150 XBIZ & AVN Nominations Including Studio of the Year 4378 Posts 3/09
Posted - Mar 27 2013 : 5:19AM
Jacco [/quote] Great point. I am surprised Porno Dan doesn't get fucked over more often by limp dicks doing his "Fuck a Fan" series. My understanding is that he uses three guys for each episode and at least one (and sometimes two) always manages to get and keep his dick hard enough to fuck for the series. [/quote] We have LOTS of performance issues with the fans, but most people aren't watching for the sex, they are watching for the entertainment value
^ Interesting. I wondered how things worked out behind the scenes with Fuck a Fan. Hopefully things continue to go well for you (even if you get your share of limp dicks showing up on the set) and the AHF harassment you have been experiencing lately goes away. The idea of Fuck a Fan sounds quite entertaining.
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hoochimama Deactivated User
1436 Posts 5/10
Posted - Mar 27 2013 : 6:20PM
That sounds amazing, I gotta see that. Poor guy though, I don't think anyone could perform under those conditions, I wonder if he later realized it was done on purpose in order to make him fail. I also saw a similar scene with Gianna Michaels and this short black dude who couldn't get hard, she kept making fun of him throughout the whole scene and the crew was also laughing, a bit painful to watch and one of her few non-standard scenes. Can't find it anymore and don't remember what it was called though. Whenever I read people spouting anti-porn arguments on how it degrades and abuses women I wonder if they've ever considered how the male performers can have it just as bad, or even much worse(dudes getting punched and kicked full-on in bdsm videos, bleeding when whipped, and I imagine there are also gay versions of facialabuse and shit). ____________________________ Please ID these PlayboyTV girls https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/playboytv-foursome-identification-thread/ Edited by - hoochimama on 3/27/2013 6:24:47 PM
I was one of those "Fuck a Fans" you guys are talking about, and I have to agree with people that it def. is a lot of pressure performing in front of the camera. Part of it is who you know, because obviously if a production company likes your work, they are going to continue to rehire you. But you also have to be able to perform, and I think Dan makes a good point that you have to do more than just fuck. You have to have some creativity to help improve scenes as well as create new fresh ideas. Just like Dan has with Fuck a Fan and BlowJob March Madness Challenge. Personally, I would love to be able to show up on a set once or twice a year, have some fun and then go back to being a fan of the movies. I respect all the male talent that is able to make a living out of this. Guys like James Deen, Karlo Karrera, Tony Ribas, John Strong, Mandingo, Prince Yashuya, Eric Everhard, and my personal favorite retired star Dirty Harry Rivera. Male Pornstars are supposed to be just props, but the right one can make a scene turn into someone award winning or special. There are only a handful of guys (mentioned above) who churn out quality scene after quality scene with top talent. Once someone like myself sees those guys and how they work, it's kinda hard to convince your self to step in and try to be the next great male porn star.
It's a lot easier for any guy to get hard, once he is inside the lady, than when he is just thinking about it. This guy should've gone after Sandra Romain's ass with his fingers and plenty of lube to make her gape her asshole wide open for him. Because when the lady is gaping her ass wide open enough, then her guy can just slam her bum with his soft dick and end up inside her ass anyway. And once he is inside, then he is good for the ride. He will surely get an erection simply from being inside her ass. Hiding his dick inside the pretty chick makes the guy forget about himself and focus his attention on her. Which is what the guy needs to get a good erection. It's looking at your dick instead of at the chick that stops you from having an erection. The dick isn't sexy for a heterosexual guy, even if it's your own dick. You need to forget your dick and focus on the chick to get a good erection. Sandra Romain played him for a fool by focusing his attention on his dick, instead of teasing him with her ass the way she usually does with other guys. It wasn't just his fault. Sandra Romain discouraged him from having an erection by focusing his attention on himself rather than on herself. Edited by - Dan on 3/29/2013 11:10:10 AM
man with the surplus of babes in porn these days idk how it could be that tough for guys to get hard and stay hard for a scene. i turn on porn and my dick becomes a rock just looking at these girls bodies in the pre-scene, fantasizing about what's to come, wink wink.
^ you're missing the point. I'm sure these guys have no issue getting hard and staying hard and cumming when watching porn or in their private sex lives. Shooting porn is different, there are many other factors involved that clearly make things more difficult for men. I was watching a BTS of a digital playground movie once, and from the point the director told the male performer(danny mountain) to cum, it took him over 30 minutes of self-jerking to deliver a cum-shot. Seemed really tedious for all involved. I guess that's why it's important to directors to have a guy who cam cum 'on demand'.
Yeah, imagine how hard it is to tell your brain not to respond to all the normal stimuli that make you orgasm, then be expected to cum on command. That requires some serious mental gymnastics.
cumming on command is easy. probably more difficult on a porno set, but i don't see what makes that difficult at all. if you don't wanna cum you just relax your muscles down there and breathe it out...if you wanna cum you tense up and boom, drop the load. especially if in scenes you fuck for a few minutes, change positions, keep fucking. it's not like you're fucking for an hour straight literally. the breaks and slow-down periods would make it easy to relax and pop when you want. is orgasm really that difficult to control for most guys, even porn actors?? if so i'd make a great pornstar lol.
I never bothered, cuz it doesn't pay enuff. That is, when u consider/weigh what u give up in the business/ family/square world, that u can never get back!
*rofl* hooters520 and jeanvaux hint at the root of the problem: It is well known that the best male pornstars have never performed an actual scene. They were always too busy writing stuff in porn forums on the Internet. There are thousands (millions) of capable male guys in porn forums, who can control their orgasm perfectly, splash as much liquid as a bottle of champagne etc. but they just never give it a shot. Because honestly: writing on ADT is just so much more fulfilling. HAHAHAHA!!!
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 10:03PM
