It seems to me the focus of every scene now is to degrade the woman and punish her. Why is this? It never used to be like this. I can remeber a time when kissing and cunnilingus was common and cumshots rarely got above the breasts. Now it's all about gangbangs, facials, verbal abuse, and fellatio that induces gagging. Why is this? What changed?
I don't think it's as commonplace as you describe it. Sure, there is a substantial "gonzo" market which includes scenes with all the stuff you mention, but there's also lots of companies who put out good, old-fashioned vanilla sucking and fucking - Jill Kelly Productions, Adam & Eve, etc. It's all about different products for different tastes. The variety has increased in recent years, that's what has changed. And so the gonzo market has increased, because obviously there is a demand for it that wasn't fulfilled before - but it doesn't represent "porn" as a whole, and I don't think it's even a majority.
Besides, it's open to debate what exactly is "abusive", and what's not. There are some people who consider a woman giving a blowjob to be a "degrading scene" - common view in the Victorian age, fortunately a small (albeit vocal) minority opinion in the more sexually open-minded society of today. I don't consider facials abusive, either, as you seem to do - on the contrary, they can be a great expression of "attention" in a way, and there are plenty of girls who don't mind, or who actually enjoy them.
As for the "gagging, gangbang" stuff - well, I'm not a fan of gonzo fare at all and I do consider a lot of it somewhat wacked-out, frankly - but then again, no one forces me to watch it. And grown-up people are free to do as they will, as long as it's safe, sane and consensual, so who am I to stop them.
Things become stagnent, you can only watch the same scene over and over again until a new style comes up....I think real life is becoming harder and more callous too so its a reflection of that...I myself prefer gonzo because its straight and too the point
I think that it is a matter of, for lack of better expression, emancipation from old morals. For a long time porn conformed to some "socially acceptable" standard; i.e. what people normally do, or a thought to be doing, in the bedroom. This was also reinforced by the fact that porn was shown in theaters, which is a kind of social event. Now, with video and not the least the Internet and a maturing market pornograhp is becoming more and more entertainment attuned to the phantasies of the audience and less an image of "normal" sexual conduct.
So, like it or not, pornography nowdays simply reflect the phantasies of its audience more than it did before. You can see a similar trend if you look at other mature forms of adult entertainment, such as erotic literature. Compared to the contents of some of the Victorian erotica even today's pornonography can seem tame and luke warm; e.g. in the turn of the century Victorian erotica caning, anal sex, rape and under-age sex are quite common themes.
The development of the pornography of today is driven by the same factor as 19th century erotica: human nature and imagination, something that has hardly changed in the past 100 years. Therefore it is only natural that pornography of today is becoming more abusive, more focused on punishment and degradation, and more violent. I do not think that it will be long before some producers start to bring caning etc. into the mainstream, i.e. what you can buy over the counter.
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scrotencemalone Deactivated User
167 Posts 12/03
Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 7:59PM
because society is less inhibited and more free to express itself. Also, if women were as big of whores as men, we wouldn't have repressed aggression against them.
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nietzsche Deactivated User
5470 Posts 8/03
Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 9:18PM
Not another my-porn-tastes-are-better-because-I-don't-like-degradation thread. Oh well, if I don't like them, why do I read them, right?
Questions similar to this topic are being posted more frequently every year; and - as always - it gets a lot of play here.
The more I think I know about this business, the more I'm convinced there's much more that I don't know. And instead of coming up with fewer - and better defined - reasons as to why there's a continued increase of porn that features women being sexually abused and degraded, instead, I keep coming up with more theories that seem less defined. But I keep trying to understand this thing we do. Or to at least try to understand myself.
So, for what it's worth, here's some random thoughts on why I think this kind of porn continues to be used:
1. Pornography needs controversy to stimulate enough curiosity to get people to look at it. I think most of us are pretty much aware of this by now.
2. Porn needs to stir some kind of sexual energy by its users just to be defined as pornography. For both the occasional and frequent user of porn, the market has indicated that this includes violent, abusive and degrading sex acts. But I don't think this is completely correct. I think it's a result by default; and there's more about this shortly.
3. While those contributing members on this site tend to comment and post their thoughts about what extreme stuff the men are doing to the women, it's just as likely that there's a similar - or even higher percentage of viewers using porn that shows women sexually dominating, degrading and humiliating men. And I'm sure there's another high percentage of viewers that seek similar sexual acts with the same gender - which are most likely guys.
4. People that use porn frequently, probably prefer to watch what they don't do themselves - and perhaps would never want to do. In other words, if I frequently experience getting my cock sucked, I don't need to frequently watch guys getting theirs sucked.
5. There is a much smaller percentage of viewers that use porn very frequently; while there's a much higher percentage of occasional viewers. However, since this smaller percentage of viewer uses far more porn than the occasional user, the industry will react quicker to its buying tendencies. In other words, if it sells well, we'll shoot it again; but we're really not acknowledging that it's a lower percentage of end users that determine what's selling well and what's not. We tend to look at the numbers, but not the numbers that determine those numbers.
6. Pornographers - just like its steady customers - have our own private issues with sex, relationships, life, love, rage, power, control, fears; and so on. And it's very likely that all or most of these issues are what ultimately compel us to shoot what we choose.
And whether or not a pornographer's stuff becomes popular with viewers, I don't think it's what motivates him to keep shooting it. We might take advantage of the money that's suddenly discovered from what we shoot; but I doubt if it's what compelled us to shoot it in the first place.
Nevertheless, it's the top selling porn is what the non-pornographer/distributors attempt to cash in on. But what they emulate never tends to catch on like the original. And while this would seem obvious to the rest of us, I don't think it is.
7. There's all kinds of intense, extreme violent sexual porn being shot all over the world. But most of that kind of stuff never gets into our industry's wider marketing loop; simply because it's just not that important to most of us in the business - or for those end users that we would feel comfortable enough to shoot for.
In other words, to make a gross and outrageous example of this - while it is possible that there could actually be some viewers that would be willing to watch some body fuck a young toddler and then eat it for dinner, it's not at all likely that there would ever be any one willing to first shoot and then share it with another.
8. However, there have been actual situations where somebody would shoot something very shocking and extreme; and somehow manage to get some of it sold and ultimately used, before it suddenly gets dumped. Recent examples are some vomiting and punching loops. What usually happens is that they stop being shot, because not enough people want to watch them, or sell them, or appear in them.
9. Whether or not some of us choose to challenge our viewer's limitations - or our own shooting limits, it will never really answer what privately compels any of us to shoot what we choose. Nor will it provide any answers to why its new-found viewers be compelled to watch what challenges them enough to want to watch it again.
10. There are more pornographers in the game than ever before. But I don't think most pornographers today are truly aware of why they keep at it; because it's not the money.
But I am convinced that those who use porn, whether frequent or seldom, are not merely seeking a sexually rewarding experience. It's more difficult than that.
They seek a PREVIOUS sexually rewarding experience. And I don't think there are that many pornographers around that know how to do this often enough to thrive and endure.
So I think it's because of what we're not able to provide enough of, is why there's so much more of the extreme, shocking and violent stuff that continues to be produced.
It's not the motivation we lack; or what compels us to shoot what we shoot. What we do lack is the understanding why it's watched as often as it is.
Henri Pachard
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Darth-Morpheous Deactivated User
1701 Posts 3/02
Posted - Nov 27 2004 : 2:20PM
Personally I love hardcore movies that contain Anal, A2M, gaping, cum swallowing etc. However I can't stand all the choking, spitting, slapping, and all the rough stuff that is now commonplace in lots of hardcore releases today. I like when all parties in a scene are into the kind of hardcore action they are engaged in. That is why Jessica Darlin, Bella Donna, Ariana Jollee, Katrina Kravin, Gia Paloma, and other stars that enjoy this type of stuff are my favorites to watch. To me the slapping and choking stuff just ruins a good hardcore scene. The girls makeup starts running and you can tell they are not having a good time. Most women aren't enjoying sex if they are choling, gagging, and tearing the whole while. So basically my take is; Anal, A2M, Cum swallowing, gaping = Good. Choking, gagging, spitting, slapping = Bad.
Part of the intrigue of Porn is being Naughty!With that being said;there is a niche in Porn for the degradation and debasing of young Newbie Whores.Porn would be quite boring from the Perspective of Romatic cuppling ONLY.Its important to know that these Production Companies that put out Art that looks like they are demeaning Woman;are not just ful- filling Mens Fantisy;but alot of Wemon as well.I have ran into countless Females that deem this behavior as Erotic Fun;and find it stimulating.Evedently if the majority of Girls took offense by being treated like Naughty sluts;they would not partake in the Majority of Hardcore Gonzo that is out on the market Today.If one deems this offensive this is fine.You have the freedom not to rent Titles that portray images of degradation.But know;While People speak up for Respecting the Ladies;there are some Ladies that dont want you to speak up for them;because they enjoy Degrading them- selves for the Purpose of fulfilling a Whackers Fantisy.Its all Entertainment folks.Its like someone watching Action Films and asking;"Why are there so many guns used in Action Flicks?" Its just the Element of Entertainment.Critics would have more of a case;if Females were more vocally abject to be treated like filthy Whores on Video;but alot are not.I see no real argument here;except choice to view or not.
I must say I find all this forum thread chivalry fascinating. It's good to know alan alda isn't dead.
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scrotencemalone Deactivated User
167 Posts 12/03
Posted - Nov 27 2004 : 11:27PM
I don't think you can even call it poor treatment if it is consentual slapping and torture or whatever. Aren't people allowed to be treated any way they want? Frankly, I'll take any Mason movie over, say a scene where it wasn't fully consentual or the performer didn't know what they were getting into. "cough, cough, corina taylor"
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scrotencemalone Deactivated User
167 Posts 12/03
Posted - Nov 27 2004 : 11:29PM
offense to corina, just using it as an example by the way
Oh my, another adventure in phonetic surrealism .... but to the point that's been made before: In action movies, the guns aren't loaded. When they are, you have a Brandon Lee situation. I am sick to death of this ludicrously idiotic rationale that is, at best, "comparing apples and oranges."
As well, pointing out that things would be different if "Females were more vocally abject to be treated like filthy Whores on Video;but alot are not" is sort of like saying if only illegal aliens would refuse to work for less than minimum wage, we'd take their exploitation more seriously ... lol
Personally, I say mazel tov to the Melissa Laurens and Kami Andrews of Fuckworld, who have found a place where they can be paid for experiencing the abuse they seek for whatever their personal reasons; too bad there's not such an industry for the heroin addicts of the world, too ...
It's just a shame what the rough--sex FAD has done to the marketplace, handing it over nearly wholesale to brutalizers with handycams and forcing women who are NOT interested in rough sex and don't enjoy it to learn to endure it because "it's what the market demands." When non-violent erotic entertainment has become a niche market, then our culture is indeed out of .... um ... "Whack."
Well... There's a demand for it. I don't like some of the stuff out there, especially a lot of the crap that you can get on the internet, but what are you going to do? :( I think the video-market is OK. Not too many people are flirting over that line, especially after the "Extreme Associates" incident last year. But the internet can be a really filthy place.
I love DAC's post too. I like hot passionate sex and I enjoy a good hard pounding and a thoughtfull sexy slap on my ass too but I don't like situations where I feel the sex moved to the background totally and it is all about abuse. It's not my thing to let everybody just do with me whatever the fuck they want. Go on and slap me, choke me, spit on me, I hit, choke and spit right back. This being said, don't fuck with me, the Katja force strikes back *ROFL*
I often see the claim that this is what the market wants. But is that really true?
How well did movies like "I Love It Rough" and "Slap Happy" sell? (I'm asking, I really have no idea) Those titles clearly state that they contain rough stuff.
Look at the titles of PXP and RLD releases of the last year. How many of those titles give any indication that there's going to be slapping, chocking (however mild), gagging and ridiculous namecalling? Not many. However I expect most of them do contain those elements to varying extents. They did some months ago when I added both companies to my no-buy list. And I'm not talking about a playful slap or two on the butt. Hell even my 2004 favourite "Road Trixxx" has that. I'm talking about spank spank spank spank, hold her head, fuck her throat, puuush her head down until she's about to puke, 'Who's a dirty little whore?', slap . Yecch!
It generally seems to me that gonzo buyers have little chance of knowing beforehand whether any new releases they're buying/renting contain rough stuff or not. Gonzo that's just a couple of years old is mostly 'safe' though.
To the original poster, if you're looking for pointers: There are still new releases with 'old school' sex.
Big feature companies like Wicked rarely have any rough stuff.
Kick Ass Pictures' vignette lines have some descriptive titles like "Barefoot Confidential", "Chica Boom" and "Specs Appeal". These series contain fairly vanilla sex with a specific fetish for that title thrown in.
There's even some gonzo being produced without any abusive behaviour. I took a chance on the two "Squirtwoman" DVDs and was positively surprised. No rough stuff there.
I'm getting wood.Damn Katja that sounds almost as hot as you look. Any movies where you get to do just that?
Yes I like it when the women get rough with the guys. Double standard? Quote possibly. But a lithe porn girl getting bitchy on a built porn stud looks more like fun roleplaying to me. When 3+ guys tower over the girl and start manhandling her the fun-factor is sorely lacking. Also, I've yet to see any scenes with girls roughing up the guys, 'sneaked' into movies where the buyer wouldn't be damn sure that's what he was getting.
Another Q for Katja: Two of the best girl-roughs-up-guy scenes I've seen were with Ana Nova and Renee Pornero. And you also look like you can take care of yourself. Are porn stars from German speaking countries who shoot in the US generally more mature and confident, or is that just a coincidence?
Oh, and +1 DAC's rant.
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scrotencemalone Deactivated User
167 Posts 12/03
Posted - Nov 29 2004 : 6:03PM
I don't care if it seems ridiculus, there should be more females abusing men while fucking in porno.
Companies are free to make any type of film they want. Stars are free to do what ever scenes they want. I'm free to purchase or rent any scene that appeals to me.
I let my purchasing dollars speak for me and that means watching movies that turn me on. (For the record I get wood watching two or more people make each other cum hard through pleasure rather than pain. The more authenticity and feeling the better.)
Full ACK. BTW, I don't take the shining knights in white armour too seriously anymore. In a recent thread, like this one, some shining knight accused me of ..., because I wanted to know how "sick" is defined. Then a few days later the same person mentioned in another thread he likes the (looks of) women from the big feature companies but complained that they don't get fucked "the way we want them to get fucked".
And now my brain is in an endless loop. Because I for once think all these feature companies have it all - the hard stuff - from DP to deep-throating, and I - the presumed sick-stuff loving pervert - like this kind of movies and stay away from the other "sick stuff". Yet, apparently the feature company material is not hard enough for the shining knights. But it is the shining knights complaining about sick/too extreme stuff. error, does not compute
Interesting. My theory has been for long times, that the "wall-to-wall"/gonzo rules/etc. crowd is more vocal. Hence the picture you get from reading newsgroups and web-fora about porn-consumers is somewhat different from the actual porn-consumer, who takes out his wallet or credit card.
Im also not into rough stuff. I mean I like it wild with lots of action and love good orgy scenes, but when it becomes obvious that its not fun for the actor/actress then I rather get sick than aroused.
I'm going out on a limb on this thread, since I am guilty of shooting scenes so hard they ended up being cut in their entirety from the project.
I have been re-assessing this mysoginistic issue lately, and I have come to the conclusion that the rough stuff can be done with class and still deliver a hardcore punch to the gut. I started a line called GRUDGEFUCK to exemplify this strategy. LOTS of angry, hardcore sex that has all the energy of an abusive scene, but yet there is no slapping, spitting, and choking involved. It's all about creative delivery and setting up a believable scenario that the viewer relates to so well that it is easily convincing, without being overtly abusive. So far it seems to be working. Alex Ladd taught me that you can actually elevate your artistry if you can deliver a punch without ever throwing one...You dig?
You can check out the review for GRUDGEFUCK here on ADT, if you don't want to take my word for it. But I am hopeful, and confident, that this new approach will help bridge the gap between the marketplace demands for the rough stuff, and the professional demands of keeping scenes safe, legal, and likeable.
On a personal note...I find it strange that girls leave the set of GRUDGEFUCK talking about how much fun they had, as compared to leaving a set with a week's worth of healing-time in front of them before their bruises go away and they can shoot again.
PS: If you've seen my gangbang for EVOLUTION EROTICA called "PAYBACK" you saw Katrina Kraven take a shot to the mouth that drew blood and knocked her right to the unpadded asphalt...or did it? It's all about creating "appearances"...not "coaxing girls into more than they bargained for", which has become a most tasteless and deplorable trend these days.
How about this for a possible answer. It's done because 1. The women allow it, and some actually like the rough stuff! 2. People keep buying it!
I saw an interview with Spielburg YEARS ago when Temple of doom was released and he was asked if his kids would be allowed to see TOD, and he said no. The interviewer asked why he made movies his kids wouldnt be allowed to watch. His answer.... "Because that's what the people want, and they keep buying it. So I am going to keep making it."
Interesting isn't it? Admittedly gonzo has been produced more over the last number of years and those statistics were compile over a longer period of time. I also think gonzo porn fans are more apt to come to message boards than the light-weight feature "puller"
Where I do my rentals, they have recently added a few American labels, but of course not DVSX, which I have to try after reading this.
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Haze Deactivated User
769 Posts 7/04
Posted - Jul 30 2005 : 7:54PM
The women are a dime a dozen. When one quits a bus full of hopeful starlets from Iowa come in the next day willing to do anything on camera for a dollar.
It is sad to see performers tricked into doing a scene that they turns out to be something they did not plan for, there are a few snakes in the grass and it really makes the industry look shitty, when it doesn't have to be that way.
Some girls DO like to be submissive. If the scene is better explained to the talent, there shouldn't be a problem. Everyone, viewer and talent can have fun. Some girls like being slapped, others don't. Take Darling for instance, she only plays a sub in fetish, but doesn't go after the money in porn because she enjoys being a sub. She never wants to be dominant. Different people like different things. It is a talent coordinators job to find out what that is.
I feel badly for the girls who do it just for the money. It makes the industry seem to make victims out of people. It gives conservatives ammo when trying to beat us out. I suggest that they be urged to talk with AIM and see if the business is right for them.They can make peace with it and see the good, along with what to avoid. Also, as a last resort they can live for less money in other states and CAN get a job doing something else or get training. It doesn't take that long to become a dental assistant.
I don't mind what people like to shoot. I have been involved in bondage myself and enjoyed it. I have had rough sex that I enjoyed. I hope that everyone who watches it enjoys it too. There are many girls that feel the same way.
Listed below are the major problems that I see in porn, maybe if porn didn't have these problems it would be more accepted in the mainstream community:
#1. Talent Coordinators, that new girls do not KNOW and who are not talent, telling young girls that if they want work they will have to fuck them. This makes a girl think that she is not good enough, so she has to do extra for the movie part.
#2. New directors or low budget directors cheating and hurting unsuspecting talent by waiting until they are on set, during a scene, then doing a totally different form of sex act than what was agreed on. Some girls do not enjoy certain types of sex so they shouldn't be put into situations like that, then repremanded like the lowest form of life for expressing their distaste, when it wasn't agreed on in the first place.
#3. Other talent who are all drugged out and don't show up on the set just because they don't feel like it. It makes other girl's lives harder when they have REAL issues because we get stereotyped into this image of being self centered partiers. If you can't meet your obligations, you can be an escort, so that you are not making the industry lose money and get pissed off at the rest of the talent.
I think there are many girls that prefer to get their $1,000+ in two quick hours than an all day affair for a feature. I remember when gonzos were really coming into their own and a particular female talent was annoyed with me for the "arty" stuff we had to do as the set-up to the scene. She just wanted to fuck and go home... whatever was involved. But, I do think there are girls who really like it rougher. Just like you guys have such a vast array of likes and dislikes, so do the girls. I think a really great pornographer can put him/herself in "the dance" and feel where things are going and move with the action. The one thing everyone seems to agree on is that the girls should really enjoy it. So who the hell cares if it's in a feature or a gonzo... if the girl's crying out for some rough stuff... let it happen. Likewise, if she's more sensual in her delivery... go with it. The one glitch to this is... the dead fish. Maybe this will answer the question above. I think the influx of all the young and new girls meant a lot of dead fish. Well... what does one do with dead fish??? Maybe a little slapping will wake them up? My point is... I think the scenes started to rely on the male talent more heavily... or the pornographer for that matter. It was up to them to wake up the dead fish. I remember shooting a male talent that is now a very well-known director. Back when I was shooting more feature orientated material, I told him to imagine that this was his girlfriend and he desperately wanted to see her be fucked by someone else. This was his big fantasy. He told me, "I've fucked over 500 women. I don't have anymore fantasies." Just an interesting note to perhaps understand many of the male talent/pornographers. Pornography is intended to cause sexual excitement. I suppose at the end of the day, there is an adience for all sorts of "erotic" material. I think rough sex can be done very well... very sexy. I also think it can be done just as manantenously as feature sex. But, let's face it... porn is for the fantasy and it's not like you can treat your girlfriend like a dirty filthy cum-farting whore... well, not very often. I'm sure that fantasy will eventually get played out just like all the pizza men that got a whopping tip, and we'll move onto the next thing. Also, guns on Hollywood movies are loaded... with blanks. I think it was a blank that mis-fired that killed Brandon Lee... though, there's all sorts of speculation about that one. Any which way you look at it, we have come a long way from rubber guns with a silent screen that read "Bang! Bang!" Our world has become much rougher. Much of the mystery is gone. Just look at sports. Extreme sports/ Extreme Sex / Extreme everything. I for one would love to go back to the day when men filled out dance cards and didn't expect to ram their tongue down my throat on the first date. It would certainly make the sluty whore that would one day ravage their cock seem a lot more exciting, I would imagine.
I was living in the dark... but now I see the light... 338 Posts 2/04
Posted - Jul 31 2005 : 5:01AM
I find it quite offensive that some of you asumbe that us 'gonzo' girls will do anything for a quick dollar, or that we even find what happens degrading.
I have a degree (a British one) in Criminology, I work in as a PA to a huge dimond trader in London and earn equal, if not more than i get from porn.
If you take in to account that once you change your money into pounds, it doesn't work out nearly as much as what it's worth in America.
My point being is that I travel, (Taking time from my easy, well paid job) to come to America to make the nastiest material I possibly can. Why? Because I want to. I want to learn where my sexual peak lies, I want a sexual fight, I want to behave like an animal. The performers are often great friends 'off-set' so we don't feel guilt, we have a sexual understanding that some of you, just will never get.
Some of us just guenuinly are filthy whores. It's easier to make a 'quick buck' being a prostitute, but I guarentee, it would be much less fun, but probably much more mony, and not on film.
Two responses to Isabel. 1, she has said she likes it. Permission is granted. I've seen too damn many movies where the girl had a look of shock on her face that made it obvious she wasn't expecting it. 2) I wonder if she's in the majority.
In my own uneducated, ignorant conclusion, I think the reason women are treated so badly is because the male talent really is the bottom of the barrel. There's too many parolees, and too many lifers. When you have women handed over to you for your own amusement, well, that's going to warp your view of them, pure and simple. I don't think most of these clowns know how to have a healthy relationship with a woman where conversation is required and sex is done without camera angles.
I refer to the TT Boy types, who seems to have done nothing but porn, not a Dave Cummings, who came to porn late in life. I mean, ever read Peter North's book? Yeah, Jack Nicholson impersonations are a great way to pick up women. Spoken like a guy who's had them handed to him all his life.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - Jul 31 2005 : 2:01PM
When someone like Isabel tells her partner to take from her what he wants, and he does, it always works out well no matter how rough the action. My problem is when nobody looks like their getting anything out of what's going on and they're just doing things that consumers are clamoring for. The bottom line is that people are buying porn that's nothing more than an exercise in physical abuse. Even the emotional/mental component is usually non existant except for the occasional "whore" or "slut" thrown in. There's nothing wrong with rough, passionate sex. Far too much is better described as assault and battery.
As long as there is sex in porn, and religious right wingers I don't ever see porn being "Accepted" in the mainstream. Tolerated MAYBE but not accepted. I think porn is the Gay son of the 80's. We know it's there but we want it to try NOT being porn.And here I thought this only still happened to my mainstream Hollywood friends. How many TC's are there out there? Find another one and blast the hell out of the one who tried that in public.They can say NO.Does the industry really lose money behind these types of girls? Girl does a no show we replace her, and never call her again. After a while her reputation begins to precede her and well she sort of fades away.
Mr. Wonderful I've heard girls say they don't kiss. Which as my boss says makes no sense. You're about to get assfucked but you wont kiss the guy? He attributes the demise of kissing in scenes to pretty woman.
What changed? What people are buying? We at BKP still do the old fashioned passionate amateur porn. The real deal.
Most women in porn probably don't have a lot of cash. Our culture (hell, this is a global issue) really doesn't care what happens to poor people. That goes double for sex workers. If a girl complains, who's going to believe her. She knew she was going to get fucked, and the word "rough" can mean different things to different people.
The reason that women are mistreated in porn, is because it's so easy to do.
The people on the bottom rung always get shit on.
That's the way it's always been, and that's the way it always will be.
But I go out of my way to avoid "hate porn", and I've no regrets about that.
HUH? What does how much money they do or dont have relate to the topic of mistreatment? I apologize but I think I missed the correlation.
I still maintain that "Hate porn" continues to be made simply because the performers ALLOW it. They each have a choice and can say NO and move on. The stuff Max Hardcore shoot is pretty harsh to watch sometime. But I don't think any of the girls doing it were TRICKED into it. Same with stuff Skeeter Kerkov(sp) shoots.
Show up on the set if the scene isn't what was decided and not what they're into get that kill fee and step off. It doesn't HAVE to be made.
I haven't read earlier posts on this topic...but I'm amazed that other than one or two brief replies, little has been spoken on the subject of misogyny as an answer for the thread originator. I've found a substantially large group of guys in porn, both in front of and behind the camera, who confidently spill their disdain for the opposite sex. Strangely, it also seems there is a type of women (performers) that enter the biz, to seek out scenarios with these (I call them a wee bit dark, dysfunctional, predatory) guys. Of course, if there wasn't a market for it, no one would produce it. I've met some seemingly balenced happily married men that tell me how much they love to see women be abused in their weekly porno rentals. But does that mean, as a pornographer, you have to make product that works on this level?
i want to see more films where violent pornographers are attacked by violent feral dogs. and homeless guys with rabies who'd bite them and then urinate alcohol onto their wounds. that'd be fucking great, i'd moderate the forum they'd create here for the genre.
A surprisingly mass number of women "allow" all sorts of things to be done to them by their man... in and out of the porn business. 18 or 45. A surprisingly mass number of men take advantage of this... and often to cover-up for their inadequacies and insecurities... making themselves feel superior... in and out of the business. Maybe we should ask the question... why are women treated so poorly in every day living? I fully hear and respect Isabel for what she says. I think there's much to figure out in this world... and within ourselves... and experimentation can be a good avenue to do so. And generally, a porn set is a controlled environment... where you know you can push and be pushed and not go over the edge.
Paying trib-ute to SinncentVanSage 1412 Posts 12/04
Posted - Aug 1 2005 : 5:13PM
Because men who wouldn't treat them bad don't ever get a chance. It sounds like a stereotype and for sure it's not the only reason but there's a grain of truth in it I think. If I don't learn to sometimes hurt a woman's feelings to defend myself I will be exploited as an asexual crying cushion forever. When I help them to get over a man who treated them bad but got sex and then they go for another man who'll treat them bad while they tell me I'm not their type of man, well that starts to hurt some day, so I'll have to become a little more evil, too. It's sad but I don't want to live like that forever. Of course that doesn't mean it's the women's fault alone, there are many assholes of men around. But still I hope a time will come when girls also give men a chance about whom they cannot boast because they are not so popular.
I just read the last post before mine by now so I hope my off-topicness is not too bloodcurdling.
If you flirt with a vagina it can squirt as far as China. I can dream.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Aug 1 2005 : 6:51PM
It's right up there with the question of why so many men harbor so much anger towards women. I joke that it's the small penis complex, but I know there's a lot more to it. I heard a regular guy, family man, say he wanted to punch a women in the face while fucking here. Where the hell does this come from? Mother issues? Father issues? Wife issues? Prudish society keeping youngsters from having sex at the age when they are horniest?
Until talking to friends who've been raped, running this site and reading Bukowski and Fante I was pretty naive to this violent anger / sexual frusturation. Now I see how prevalent it is.
I'd like to see this as well but when I mentioned it on another forum Kami Andrews said that when she started mistreating the guys they found it hard to keep wood.
