Steve

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Continuity editing only leads to 'correct entertaiment' within the rather narrow, and yet highly influential paradigm known as classical Hollywood cinema. Even within this classical paradigm, continuity editing has often been discarded in favor of other stylistic elements, which take on the role of functional equivalents, when the overall form of the film asks for it and not just 'correct entertainment', but 'good entertainment' is being strived for.

(Bad Walter. Waaaaay off-topic.)



Bucho said:
"Not all dvd authorers are created equal some know how to get the best out of the format some don't and some are just lazy."

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There are reasons that Rope and Russian Ark are on a short list, and most of them have nothing to do with production difficulties.

T.C.

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And as for editing as a solution, as a consumer of porn, I know I would much rather see a scene with as little edits as possible -- as long as the people fucking keep it going really well and keep things interesting.

That's one of the best things about guys like Rocco and Nacho and Manuel Ferrara. They will just let loose, and while keeping the best for the movie in mind, they will do on-camera transitions that keep things flowing and really-well paced. Seeing somthing like this makes me feel like I'm really there or at least like I'm watching two people really fuck, not two people who are choreographing a scene around proper edits.
There's a place for that in features, but not in the gonzo I like to see.

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Yes. I see I am dealing with a very mature person here.

Check out how pace and flow are created in The Front Page (1931) (only 1 of many examples I can give you, and this only from Hollywood films; I am not even touching other film traditions). After that, let's talk again. Maybe by then, you have figured out a thing or two about discussing film form in a descriptive rather than narrow minded normative way.

Are you still trying to "cover" all the action, instead of creating it?



mike john said:
"If its good people will notice."

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You know darn well, every guy can get it up for you, on cue on time and standing at attention...or is that just :-)

LATE
Rog

Rog Reviews

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Pornstar Idol was one of many events, created to find new male talent. Femals can come to the business easy anyway. Why do you think Jewel put that much effort in it when she is not really looking for somebody new.

New good guys are highly welcomed.

Steve

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It seems most of them have girlfriends in the biz however.

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Welcome to the forum.

1. Steve also said any new good male performers would be welcome.

2. Jewel may have found a suitable, or several suitable, new male men, but where are they? Did they just go to win the contest but are not interested in performing on a regular basis as a career? There is a possiblility that since the contest was recent there hasn't been enough time for them to show up yet.

While I enjoy a lot of the regular 'steady' performers, I would also enjoy seeing a few new ones.

DenverDon

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The scenes in question are those rare moments when a few of the local lads are ushered on, often just to throw a bit of jism around, but they add something incomparable. Often we talk about empathisisng with the male performer; fantasising that you are him. I personally find it quite hard to put myself in the shoes of the like of Steve or Rocco because they have been spoilt with an embarassment of sexual riches over the years. Now, when these local lads walk on I see the same twinkle in their eyes that I know I would have were I there! At last there is no need for fantasy because for some of these guys this really is a fantasy moment, a dream come true, and I know for these blokes the moment will be as exciting and charged as it would for me. You can almost read their mind as they think 'you fucking beauty! I'm going to get to fuck/sodomise/cum on this truly gorgeous woman, wow this is a memorable day!' and that to me adds a sexual tension to the air. Okay, so these guys might not be able to perform quite as well, but is this not just an extension of what gonzo is all about - the not knowing, the unscripted nature????

Look at it this way.
I can go out there and buy true amatuer stuff - lots of people do, it sells well. Now people like this stuff for many reasons but I reckon that one of the main reasons is just that they want to see two people, relatively innocent compared to porn folk, fucking on screen. Trouble is that amateur stuff features shit camerwork and fat old bags a lot of the time, which whilst turning some on, turns many more off. Why then does the market jump straight from this amateur stuff with its plusses (ultimate in unscriptedness, and two people unjaded to what they do) and its minusses and throw BOTH away at once as we head straight for professional porno: why can't we have the gorgeous looking girls AND the 'slightly awkward can't believe his luck' guy; why are only the 'proper' porn stars allowed to fuck the best of the female talent?

Of course there will always be a huge market for reliable male performers and they will always have plenty of work, but I for one would love to be able to buy a line where normal local sex-charged young men get their chance of a lifetime to fuck, analise and shoot all over the type of local totty they can usually only dream about.

Okay, i've made my point three or four times now so I'll leave it there

SNP.

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I've been watching porn for prolly 10 years longer than Renee or Yoga, so the problem of "getting tired of" certain overused actors is more acute for me. There are male performers (who I won't name) that literally make me flinch away from the video box or quickly skip the scene, no matter who else is in the scene. But I don't get tired of someone just because I've seen them a lot, but because of something about their performances. Once I like a performer, I like them forever. Or at least until I begin to notice a pattern of bad habits. Like saying "Droppin' loads!" everytime you cum. Or woodenly throwing out "adlibbed" catch-phrases you obviously practiced the night before the shoot. Or ham-fistedly trying to steal some other male performer's style.

For those who want to see new male faces, I often find unfamiliar male faces in Hustler series. In the euro-Hustler and the Private stuff I watch, I don't necessarily see a constant flow of new male faces, but there is a different set of familiar guys than the US productions.

While I like the idea of more straight male talent, I can appreciate the concept of the male contract star. I'm thinking of New Sensations, who kinda does this with Julian, Evan Stone, Dillion Day, etc, being in every single one of their b/g productions. While one part of me doesn't think Julian should be in 3 scenes in one video, the majority of me thinks he's such a good performer that I enjoy all 3 and continue to rent NS product even though I know he'll prolly be in half the scenes.

Lastly, I want everyone to re-read Lazerus's post, because he basically said everything I was gonna say, especially the comparison to the new male talent on the all-male side. In fact, I would like to ask the male performers here if, when they started, were they given offers of more money by the gay industry? Also, how great is the difference in pay for new guys going into the het side vs the gay side? With all the straight guys in gay porn, it must be a vast difference, right? Or at least a vas deferens?

Edited by - SueR on 11/6/2003 12:15:27 AM

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-T.C.

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What is really funny to me is when I hear some male viewers constantly complain about having to see the guy performer in straight videos and then turn around and complain that there isn't enough variety of them. Give me a break. Also, I do not agree that Platinum X and RLD are one in the same. The directors at Platinum X, in my opinion, have a much better and totally different style of filming than the ones at RLD. Although they have the same owner, I compare it to the smaller, family owned Italian restaurant down the street vs. the larger nationwide chain. While the nationwide chain might be more commercially profitable, when you're looking for quality instead of quantity, you're going to put your money on the smaller place. While Platinum X and RLD do use the same male performers (I'm not complaining because they're all great) the way the performers are filmed in their movies are a lot different. Have fun!

Lori

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But it is much more: The male talent in gonzo co-directs the scene. He leads the girl like a dancer through the scene.

Steve

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Or is it just that some men are more naturally talented in this co-direction than others, perhaps?

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Porn producer, director, performer. I am a huge fan of hardcore porn and I love all of the women in porn. "God Bless Pornography" A womans ass is a beautiful thing" Woman rule!

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there is no school for porn. You either have it or you don't. Experience can be an advantage.

Best regards
Steve

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Also, what Sir Noel said. In spades. I love those "Fan Club" sequences in Rocco movies where "the guys" (raggazzi) come in to provide a feeding a the end of the main event. It is the best of both worlds, and also, have to say, Rocco and his ilk somehow pull of the multi-dude craziness with real skill. I enjoy watching this occur in his movies, but I lose interest way often when seeing it occur in the erotic exploits of others,

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This is just a lovely description... I like it!

Katja

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As much as I hate to say it, because I watch porn to see the woman AND the man, porn is very much about the woman, with not tons of emphasis on the man.
If a guy does a good job in a scene, he may get noticed by those who choose to notice him, but if he does a bad job, most people will be greatly annoyed by him.

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Edited by - Joey382 on 11/12/2003 7:55:19 PM

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Dream Girls is on a roll and I've read they will be coming out with a lot of stuff next year. I'm glad you've found something you like. Happy viewing! :-)

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I like the way that Cathy Barry have given opportunity to British lads rather than using the guys we have all seen before. OK you do start to recognise some of the faces after a bit in their stuff too but they seem at least to make an effort to include new guys in each release.

I appreciate that the main reason is the difficulty in finding guys that can perform and that directors may have enought to worry about already. But you know, if companies make zero efforts to find new guys then you can be sure that they will end up with a zero result.

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I will say, the quality of studs has improved. No more greasy slobs like Wayne Summers (seeing him with my favorite early 90s babes was sickening). Guys now are in shape and look good. The tats kinda suck but oh well.

Here's a dumb question: Why don't you train these guys? Serious. You talk about the importance of being able to fuck on cue, keep it going, get the shots, pop on cue. You take a new guy who's nervous as hell and expect much of them with what seems to me, looking in from the outside, no preparation at all.

Why NOT spend a few days with an experienced girl or two to do practice scenes with a new guy, don't burn up any film, just show him what he's in for, etc.? From what I gather, the industry doesn't give them much of a chance.

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Besides that, I can understand the time/reliability issue. Having a whole crew stand idle 'cause someone fails to perform is bad business. A women can litterally just lie there like a stiff and people will probably still buy it.

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Steve Holmes

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Think about it. Hundreds, if not thousands of guys think they have what it takes to make it in porn. Even more simply just want to fuck porn stars. Why not open up a Stud School? All these wannabe porn studs can pay their expensive tuition (to me), and spend 2-3 weeks learning the ropes of on-camera sex. Instructors will be REAL professional porn stars--male and female. The final is the student scene, which is graded on a pass/fail basis. If you pass, you get a certificate of completion, which you can put on your resume for when you start trying to find work. If you fail, you're welcome to recycle through the course and keep trying (and paying tuition) until you succeed. And who knows? Maybe, just maybe, the best porn stud in the history of porn might walk through those doors, bettering porn for all of us.

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What a concept! A lot of men performers don't enjoy sex in porn! Is it possible or were all those scenes showing disintrested men a dellusion. Yes, folks just as many men do porn for just a paycheck. Thanks for pointing that out.

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The problem we ran into with our new feature was could they act? This was the major reason for using seasoned talent. We had three novices, but only one had an acting part, and his lines were pretty short.

The gamble we had was not on the pop, it was could the new guy deliver in a feature role.

I now understand why Mike Horner and Randy Spears are used so often. Not only can they fuck and come on cue (damn could they), but they can deliver lines convincingly.

As for sex training, I'm with Tricia on the Nacho principle. Coming from the sex industry in the Bay Area, I'd wager live sex shows make good training grounds (and filters) for who can perform on camera.

This is why I have to take my hat off to the bukkake boys and the guys in the huge gangbangs. It takes some guts to get naked with a bunch of naked guys, and crew, stand around, and still come for one woman.

Personally, I'd offer, but I'm in my 30's and my Mistress wouldn't approve :)

Question, would women watch a straight movie about new guys, even if some of the guys couldn't pop?

Jay Moyes

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Why aren't they doing porn?

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Edited to remove sarcastic editorial.
I will play nice with others-

Edited by - AztecGold11 on 12/26/2005 11:48:14 PM

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