Why is it that pornstars can't crossover? (page 2)

Author	Post
Shagdog Member Houston 626 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 9 2008 : 4:49PM I've seen Chloe Sevigny blow job, she gets an A+ for cock sucking Derek117 wrote:1. The truth is Chloe's career was very much in question after "Brown Bunny." I think she may have even lost her agent. She's mostly an Indie actress, but had made some ("Palmetto") big studio productions. Her big studio work disappeared after "Bunny." She remains visible and employed as a regular on "Big Love"--as the most uptight wife, Nicolette. In short, Chloe is reviving her career after "Brown Bunny" by playing down (not"up") her sexuality. Click to expand I disagree she is an Indie actress which means the major studios don't consider her enough of a talent to sign to a contract. Not even for small supporting rolls. Her appearing "In Boys don't cry" was very controversial. That what Indie films are, about controversy. Major studios play it safe, Indie take chances. And she still has a job SashaGrey wrote: Sooner than you think. the fuck junkie ♠ Click to expand If any porn actress goes to non-sex mainstream. I believe it will be you. You are very captivating. And have the strength to do it. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 4:43AM Shagdog wrote: Even Meg Ryan did a almost porn movie. Click to expand A sex scene with Mark Ruffalo, which was no more explicit than a typical sex scene in the 70s, is not 'almost porn.' [Link]
Shagdog Member Houston 626 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 9:26AM "In the Cut" with Meg Ryan is exactly the movie I'm talking about. Meg Ryan The forgotten actress wanting to become relevant again. Doing her first full nude scene and simulated sex. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Cut If full blown explicit sex had been added with Meg Ryan getting fucked . It would have been a landmark film and talked about for generations. The money generated would have been enormous and it would continue to sell for generations to come. It would surpass any movie ever made in money and fame. But at this time in our history, with the religious right, so well organized and powerful. It would have come at the tremendous cost to Meg Ryan. The hate generated by the religious right would have taken an enormous emotional toll on Meg Ryan. That is why Chloe Sevigny, Pam Anderson, Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian and others sex tapes are huge victories. Their sex tapes came at the height of the the religious rights power and influence. They are still working and still in the public eye. None were forced into the black hole of shame. History all so tells us. the religious right's power and influence will fade. Their ability to mount a hate campaign will be diminished. It's time for a porn actress to tell the "Joy Behar and Tyre Banks" of the world to quit being "sexually repressed old prudes." "Your attitudes go back to the days when women were property and only worth was as brood mares." Everyone has sex and it's time to quit hiding it. Edited by - Shagdog on 3/10/2008 10:04:03 AM [Link]
Jeff @ IAFD Webmaster IAFD.COM 931 Posts 6/00	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 10:32AM Shagdog wrote: If full blown explicit sex had been added with Meg Ryan getting fucked . It would have been a landmark film and talked about for generations. The money generated would have been enormous and it would continue to sell for generations to come. It would surpass any movie ever made in money and fame. Click to expand Why do you think a country that doesn't really embrace porn would support seeing Meg Ryan getting fucked to the tune of "enormous" receipts? It might have boosted box office 10% or so, for the lookie-loo factor.. but you're also assuming that there'd be theatres who would show the movie. How many theatres showed The Brown Bunny? Not too many. Plus, there is no definition of "crossover" that really works. The line is fluid -- it means different things to different people. Is it winning an Oscar? Appearing in a rock video? Somewhere in-between? The most successful crossover is probably Jenna if only because she has tabloids other than AVN interested in her. Traci Lords comes in second. Past that, everyone else might have a fleeting appearance in the mainstream, and it doesn't separate them from any other struggling actor or actress in the industry. Ashlyn Gere is a huge pornstar in the late 90s and gets two guest shots on the X Files and Millennium. Looking at those appearances apart from her X Rates past, they're no more remarkable than any other SAG/AFTRA member's guest shot; its only notability is that she was able to overcome a stigma of having fucked on film before landing those roles. (It didn't hurt that Chris Carter is a huge porn fan.) I think the hurdles are lower to crossover, but you will never see a Scarlett Johansson level star with a porn past. It's just too much trouble to sell her to middle America, not to mention porn-hostile international markets. Porn performers will continue to be marginalized in mainstream Hollywood as long as there are busloads of performers without the baggage of porn. That's not to say there won't be some producers who won't try to capitalize on some porn fame, but it won't be widespread... [Link]

Shagdog Member Houston 626 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 11:31AM Jeff @ IAFD wrote: Shagdog wrote: If full blown explicit sex had been added with Meg Ryan getting fucked . It would have been a landmark film and talked about for generations. The money generated would have been enormous and it would continue to sell for generations to come. It would surpass any movie ever made in money and fame. Click to expand Why do you think a country that doesn't really embrace porn would support seeing Meg Ryan getting fucked to the tune of "enormous" receipts? It might have boosted box office 10% or so, for the lookie-loo factor.. but you're also assuming that there'd be theatres who would show the movie. How many theatres showed The Brown Bunny? Not too many. Click to expand What country do you live it. Unless "we who are not in the industry" are being lied to about the amount of money generated by porn. There is a lot of interested in porn in the US. Chloe Sevigny is not Meg Ryan. I don't see how you think it wouldn't make enormous sums of money. The world wide publicity and world wide audiences. Check out and see how many people searched the web for Britney Spears pussy pictures. Also check out the money and interest in "Deep throat" in porns only other landmark porn film. If you would go back to the bottom of the first page. You will see I explained. Theaters will not show the porn version of the movie. The censured version will be shown in theaters and the porn version released on DVD. Just like "uncut version" are already done. At this time people will not go set in a theater and watch a porn movie. But as we know the privacy of their home is a different story. And I already said we're not ready for this to happen. But we are moving in the direction of acceptance. Edited by - Shagdog on 3/10/2008 11:34:17 AM [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 11:37AM Shagdog wrote: What country do you live it. Unless "we who are not in the industry" are being lied to about the amount of money generated by porn. There is a lot of interested in porn in the US. Click to expand Yes. But in the US, [porn is something you're supposed to hide in the shadows and watch. You can still hear the disdain with which "respectable" folks speak of it (even if they probably do have a huge stash of it at home). And I already said we're not ready for this to happen. But we are moving in the direction of acceptance. Click to expand I doubt it. Edited by - Shagdog on 3/10/2008 11:34:17 AM Click to expand [Link]
Shagdog Member Houston 626 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 12:19PM RandomPrecision wrote: Shagdog wrote: What country do you live it. Unless "we who are not in the industry" are being lied to about the amount of money generated by porn. There is a lot of interested in porn in the US. Click to expand Yes. But in the US, [porn is something you're supposed to hide in the shadows and watch. You can still hear the disdain with which "respectable" folks speak of it (even if they probably do have a huge stash of it at home). And I already said we're not ready for this to happen. But we are moving in the direction of acceptance. Click to expand I doubt it. Edited by - Shagdog on 3/10/2008 11:34:17 AM Click to expand Click to expand Up until 1973 porn was illegal in this county. Even men of lower class wouldn’t admit to watching porn much less liking porn. That was 38 years ago, see how far porn has come in face of tremendous opposition from the religious right. Now you have women openly saying the watch and enjoy porn. And the numbers are growing everyday. I have friend’s men and women and we discuss porn. What web sites we go to and DVD’s we rent or buy and we’ve traded too. And you don’t think we’re moving toward acceptance? I know we are. Remember the earliest cave drawing found so for is of people fucking. Every sexual perversion known to man has been depicted in myths, craved in stone, and painting. As soon as the camera was invented people started making porn. People are interested in seeing other people fuck Always have and always will. RandomPrecision I have always been amused by the fact. That all the things these people did in their daily lives. What they thought was important to leave to future generation was "all the different position they had learn to fuck in." Edited by - Shagdog on 3/10/2008 12:32:04 PM [Link]
Jeff @ IAFD Webmaster IAFD.COM 931 Posts 6/00	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 12:39PM Shagdog wrote: What country do you live it. Unless "we who are not in the industry" are being lied to about the amount of money generated by porn. There is a lot of interested in porn in the US. Click to expand I'd have to ask what country YOU live in? If things were as mainstream as you claim, AVN would be at the checkout counter next to People. US Magazine would be spotlighting Teagan's new baby, etc. Instead 98% of all porn mentions in mainstream media is prefaced with "tsk, tsk" -- you don't see Belladonna on 20/20 as a successful businesswoman, you see her as a victim. Porn stars are trotted out during sweeps weeks because producers hope people will tune in to see if Stormy's tit just happens to pop out on Tyra's set; or if she starts to suck one of the audience members off because she's just so sex-crazed. NYPD Blue just got fined from pressure from society for a scene that aired 5 years ago! Chloe Sevigny is not Meg Ryan. I don't see how you think it wouldn't make enormous sums of money. The world wide publicity and world wide audiences. Click to expand How much do you think the Paris Hilton tape made? Figure they moved a million units -- and that's probably generous. That's $40 million dollars (retail, no discounting). Hardly a princely sum when compared to Hollywood fare. A piece of crap like 10,000 BC makes $35 million in ONE WEEKEND. Check out and see how many people searched the web for Britney Spears pussy pictures. Also check out the money and interest in "Deep throat" in porns only other landmark porn film. Click to expand Because it's free and because it's in the privacy of their own home. Deep Throat was from a different time. While we're freer in some areas socially, we're more repressed. Porn theatres went away for a reason -- they were driven out of town. Look at AVN or FSC's website -- every week there's another town trying to shut down sexually explicit businesses. There's no way that society is all rah-rah-rah about this kind of stuff. Maybe in 40 years when kids today are running things (tho they said that about the hippies and stoners in the 60s legalizing pot when they came into power, didn't they?) but I doubt it. If you would go back to the bottom of the first page. You will see I explained. Theaters will not show the porn version of the movie. The censured version will be shown in theaters and the porn version released on DVD. Just like "uncut version" are already done. Click to expand I did miss that explanation. Doesn't really change anything tho. A Meg Ryan sex tape -- especially since it's really now nothing more than high-budget plotted porn -- has slim marketability. I don't know if there's anyone -- Angelina Jolie, maybe? -- that could actually move any substantial number of units of an unrated DVD. And I already said we're not ready for this to happen. But we are moving in the direction of acceptance. Click to expand I don't think so. I wish so. I wish we'd live in a place where there's more fucking on TV than violence, but we're not. The prudes still have a gigantic voice. Look at local politics for your answers. Watch how senior citizens come out in droves to vote down anything that doesn't have to do with them; and how they have such a huge voice in your community which is ignored almost 100% of the time.. but try to get anything done without them... or try to sell them porn. :-) (fixed 10,000BC gross) Edited by - Jeff @ IAFD on 3/10/2008 12:41:20 PM [Link]
Shagdog Member Houston 626 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 1:42PM Jeff @ IAFD I have addressed every point you made, and I think you are wrong. But we are both trying to predict the future. Only time will tell who is right. LOL But I have time on my side, a lot of it. lol And no one can dispute porn is moving in the direction of acceptance. And again Paris Hilton is not Meg Ryan. You can multiply that 40 million by 10 very conservatively, and thats 400 million for a low budget movie. I think you can double that number or triple it. With world wide distribution. The time is past for Meg Ryan and the "In the Cut movie" and was used only as an example of how I think porn will become mainstream. But another movie and another actress will come a long when the time is right. [Link]
Cerebral Jedi Senior Member I don't trust men who don't like big tits. 1067 Posts 12/04	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 3:51PM conquistador wrote: I suppose you never heard of Traci Lords Or Bree Olson. Look at the 4th entry. I am not going to find all of them for you but you might want to do some research before you claim that pornstars "can't" crossover. Because clearly they can. Maybe it is unusual but "can't" is the exact wrong word. A current article all about porn to mainstream crossovers. Doing research makes posts better. And speaking in absolute terms like can/can't doesn't really make sense when talking about the achievements of others. Edited by - conquistador on 3/6/2008 2:48:20 AM Click to expand C'mon. I think you're being too harsh on the guy. Especially when one of your examples is really weak. I mean Bree Olson on ONE episode of an cable show, one credit out of 91 is hardly a shining example of crossing over. As for Traci Lords she has clearly crossed over into "legit" movies/Projects. Some of them even of good quality and high profile. Hell she's gotten some good reviews. But then again a lot of it struggles to be considered even B movie quality. I guess it really depends on what one considers crossing over is. A straight to DVD non-porn movie made on a show string budget? Or the 1st or 2nd leading female role opposite a Brad Pitt in a big studio movie that is anticipated to make huge money. Let's face it, the latter ain't happening anytime soon. [Link]
Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 3:54PM Traci Lords did a bangup job of talking shit about the industry as well. Don't forget that. [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 4:03PM Bree may have been a poor example. I used Bree Olson and Traci Lords to show the OP that something they declared impossible ("can't") can indeed happen. Then again when I see a porn star doing a non-sex role on a popular show I don't know what else to call it but a crossover to mainstream, no matter how small. To me crossover to mainstream does not imply huge mainstream popularity, just that one works in both genres. EDIT: for clarity. Edited by - conquistador on 3/10/2008 4:21:29 PM [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 10:21PM SashaGrey wrote: Sooner than you think. the fuck junkie ♠ Click to expand Well that is pretty cryptic. [Link]
stinkfist Senior Member Subterfuge...... 7401 Posts 4/07	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 10:59PM I think Gianna could crossover no problem,always such a confident person on film.Enjoys the camera,takes everything in her stride. [Link]

kataboom master blaster ad astra per aspera 995 Posts 6/03	Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 11:58PM plandr wrote: Why is it that pornstars can't crossover into mainstream? Click to expand cause they cant act [Link]
wheat Senior Member You want a toe? I can get you a toe 1131 Posts 4/06	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 2:20AM It's pretty obvious, nobody outside of the people who participate in and watch porn have any idea about or interest in porn stars. Sure people have heard of jenna jameson but she's the exception not the rule and even then she has no real place in the accepted mainstream. Im sure a girl who does porn could one day become a mainstream actress but lets face it, that would be in spite of her porn background not because of it. [Link]
customer20983 Member 77 Posts 2/08	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:04AM wheat wrote: It's pretty obvious, nobody outside of the people who participate in and watch porn have any idea about or interest in porn stars. Click to expand As many here have already said, there is a LOT of interest in actual porn STARS -- people with notable on-screen sexual acting ability who have an established paying fan base, not merely someone who has done one or two sex segments -- to bring that established money market to a mainstream film market. But because of many already stated reasons, most adult performers are not considered for mainstream movies. Sure people have heard of jenna jameson but she's the exception not the rule and even then she has no real place in the accepted mainstream. Click to expand Again there are MANY sex film performers who have had background and walk-on roles in many different films. But as many have said for various reasons, most of them who are able to deliver lines usually do not progress into mainstream projects, unless they are either of exceptional talent or/and are willing to accept roles in mostly non-lead roles for low budget film projects. Im sure a girl who does porn could one day become a mainstream actress but lets face it, that would be in spite of her porn background not because of it. Click to expand Again there are quite a few sex film performers who have been, and are, mainstream actress/actors. But these quote unquote cross over performers are usually in support and background roles. Of the notables, I find that it is BECAUSE of their former sex film background that they have been able to make a career in their mainstream appearance such as Traci Lords who would not have been as half as successful as she was without her constantly bringing up and then denying her time in the industry, as her acting ability is marginal at best outside of playing anger, regardless of whether open hate or disinterested disdain. Lords can't do any other emotion on camera with any believability. [Link]
jandilin Member I am nothing. I am everything. 22 Posts 3/08	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:10AM In order to be a good [mainstream] actor, a person needs to immerse themselves completely in the role. Create a history, believe that history, and live the character. They need to FEEL exactly how that character would feel. A good porn actor (and I'm not speaking for all of them, but most of them) turn OFF their feelings in order to get through that 10-guy-gangbang or hour-and-a-half-long-DP. If we always kept our feelings on, we'd never survive! Point is, these are opposite skill-sets. And I really don't think that every porn girl or guy aspires to crossover to mainstream media. I think that there is definitely a level of narcissism and an ego that needs to be fulfilled, but that porn should not be looked at as the "last resort" for that fulfillment. [Link]
wheat Senior Member You want a toe? I can get you a toe 1131 Posts 4/06	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:24AM customer20983 wrote: As many here have already said, there is a LOT of interest in actual porn STARS -- people with notable on-screen sexual acting ability who have an established paying fan base, not merely someone who has done one or two sex segments -- to bring that established money market to a mainstream film market. But because of many already stated reasons, most adult performers are not considered for mainstream movies. Click to expand There is a lot interest HERE in porn stars, of course there is it would be odd if there wasn't. This place is in no way reflective of mainstream society. The vast majority of people do not have a detailed knowledge or interest in porn stars they don't even have a passing knowledge. I also don't think there has been a general agenda from hollywood to block porn performers from achieving mainstream film success. True success in the mainstream is achieved by a tiny fraction of those who set out to achieve it, we are talking thousands upon thousands of highly skilled actors who have dedicated themslves to making it and yet they fail to make any impact. Do you really think these actual trained actors are less skilled than girls who make porn films? [Link]
customer20983 Member 77 Posts 2/08	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:25AM jandilin wrote: In order to be a good [mainstream] actor, a person needs to immerse themselves completely in the role. Create a history, believe that history, and live the character. They need to FEEL exactly how that character would feel. A good porn actor (and I'm not speaking for all of them, but most of them) turn OFF their feelings in order to get through that 10-guy-gangbang or hour-and-a-half-long-DP. If we always kept our feelings on, we'd never survive! Point is, these are opposite skill-sets. And I really don't think that every porn girl or guy aspires to crossover to mainstream media. I think that there is definitely a level of narcissism and an ego that needs to be fulfilled, but that porn should not be looked at as the "last resort" for that fulfillment. Click to expand You are entitled to your position but I respectfully disagree as most of the successful porn stars usually say the opposite as many have repeatedly said they feel they need to be able to emotionally connect with their performers on the set, not merely have someone who is courtious to them reaming like there is no tomorrow. Mai Lin said it best when she said "I need to feel that the guy I am with on set is interested in me and really trying to make the ground move for me. BUT I know the difference between the guy I am with when the cameras are on and my REAL guys who aren't there with a camera." Otherwise, no offense, we usually get performances from most sex film performers' that can be casually interexchanged with most other performers' scenes -- other than those fans who are looking for a particular performer and can care less about how believable the acting done in the scene is. [Link]
customer20983 Member 77 Posts 2/08	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:50AM wheat wrote: There is a lot interest HERE in porn stars, of course there is it would be odd if there wasn't. This place is in no way reflective of mainstream society. The vast majority of people do not have a detailed knowledge or interest in porn stars they don't even have a passing knowledge. Click to expand I disagree as a LOT of casual consumers from the quote unquote mainstream market DO watch a LOT of porn (both soft and hard core) and have more than a passing knowledge of perforemrs who have had more than a single performance exposure. Performers who have notable appearance levels such as Stormy Daniels and Sasha Grey are well known to that casual consumer market though the lessor exposed have less marketability and thus less awareness in the mainstream market. I also don't think there has been a general agenda from hollywood to block porn performers from achieving mainstream film success. Click to expand UNfortuantely yes there is. Most studio acting contracts now include the famous "non-righteous" clauses in the signing where not only full background checks are mandated which allows the studios to question not only you and your immediate family to verify you will not be a potential liability to the studio but also question and review your family's contacts, former school members and research nearly everything you have ever done in order to prevent the hiring studio from hiring people who have quote unquote questionable backgrounds or activities. Though I find it is more enforced for radio personalities today than acting performers, otherwise actors like Tim Allen would never have gotten his Disney film contracts after his long jail time for illegal drug usage and sales. True success in the mainstream is achieved by a tiny fraction of those who set out to achieve it, we are talking thousands upon thousands of highly skilled actors who have dedicated themslves to making it and yet they fail to make any impact. Click to expand As many have said before success is a matter of being completely prepared when the opportunity presents itself. Unfortunately I find that too many performers in the sex film industry have NO ambition and do it as a knock off. Occasionally I DO find the exception like Ashley Renee who through almost an insane devotion to maintaining her health and self preservation has been able to endure as long as she has. But again when you compare someone like Ashley to the majority of the people in this biz, you have to admit the facts. Do you really think these actual trained actors are less skilled than girls who make porn films? Click to expand Do I think that many quote unquote mainstream actors have more skill than most girls who make porn? Yes but only because of the sheer number of quote unquote mainstream actresses and performers. Many of the acting group have VERY LOW to almost no acting skill when they audition for roles. This is true in the case of many now notable actors and actresses. Take for example the very well known case of Will Smith who repeatedly stated before getting the break out show "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" had NEVER attended an acting class or even acting group. But because of his determination and willingness to dedicate himself to actually learn how to act from the professionals he was around he developed his skill set to the point where he was able to show off his skills when allowed to such as in "Six Degrees of Seperation", "Ali" and "The Pursuit of Happyness", despite being known for screaming and blowing things up in movies like "Independence Day". As stated before I find most who get into porn are not looking to expend that level of determination and dedication, while some have no interest at all in getting into acting as their end career, but something else altogether different and use their money to aid them to fulfill that ambition. Edited by - customer20983 on 3/11/2008 3:51:46 AM [Link]
plandr Member 79 Posts 8/07	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:51AM Wow, didn't expect this to blow up so much. I'll only say that crossing over is a matter of subjectivity. conquistador and other posters in this topic giving me or others a hard time about the position that porn girls haven't crossed over would do well to realize this. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:58AM Shagdog wrote: "That is why Chloe Sevigny, Pam Anderson, Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian and others sex tapes are huge victories. Their sex tapes came at the height of the the religious rights power and influence. They are still working and still in the public eye. None were forced into the black hole of shame. Click to expand Even the right wing like their 'whores,' it is even possible that that kind of hypocrisy is an essential part of their prudery. I would also argue that Chloe Sevigny is a different case from the others, 1) she is a real actress taken much more seriously than the others you list and 2) she doesn't have anywhere near the public profile of the others, and hence didn't attract any fire from the right wing nutters who would dismiss Brown Bunny as arty liberal trash anyway. [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 6:30PM I think if anyone spends just a little time looking favorite mainstream stars at imdb.com it would be noticed that many spent a lot of years studying their craft at schools and university. They didn't spend their time flipping burgers or working retail and then walked out onto a sound stage and into a principal role in a major or even and Indie movie, let alone a network TV show. Big difference. [Link]

MikeSouth Deactivated User 511 Posts 11/02	Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 6:58PM Clam Digger wrote: I think if anyone spends just a little time looking favorite mainstream stars at imdb.com it would be noticed that many spent a lot of years studying their craft at schools and university. They didn't spend their time flipping burgers or working retail and then walked out onto a sound stage and into a principal role in a major or even and Indie movie, let alone a network TV show. Big difference. Click to expand Dead on the money [Link]
NerdGod Member Using a 2 inch cock like it was 12 480 Posts 7/06	Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 2:15AM RandomPrecision wrote: MikeSouth wrote: because they have no acting skills plain and simple Click to expand I disagree. Any woman who can act like she enjoys having a ten inch cock rammed mercilessly down her throat for 15 minutes while simultaneously being slapped, spat upon and being called "stupid, worthless whore" is most likely a much better actress than 70% of the women in the mainstream movies. Click to expand yeah real talent to fake enjoyment. people who study acting for years dont make it in mainstream what makes you think a pornstar on set and does 1 scene for maybe an hour consits of the type of folming and work hollywood does? it doesnt. and traci lords was a crappy actor in mainstream. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 3:39AM NerdGod wrote: yeah real talent to fake enjoyment. Click to expand Bet you couldn't fake it. people who study acting for years dont make it in mainstream what makes you think a pornstar on set and does 1 scene for maybe an hour consits of the type of folming and work hollywood does? it doesnt. and traci lords was a crappy actor in mainstream. Click to expand Most Hollywood actors suck. There are a handful of really good ones, quite a few mediocre ones and a whole lot of really shitty ones. I never saw Traci Lords in anything but she probably fit right in. I'd say she was more likely to fit in between mediocre and really shitty. [Link]
Shagdog Member Houston 626 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 11:01AM BlackSix wrote: Shagdog wrote: "That is why Chloe Sevigny, Pam Anderson, Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian and others sex tapes are huge victories. Their sex tapes came at the height of the the religious rights power and influence. They are still working and still in the public eye. None were forced into the black hole of shame. Click to expand Even the right wing like their 'whores,' it is even possible that that kind of hypocrisy is an essential part of their prudery. I would also argue that Chloe Sevigny is a different case from the others, 1) she is a real actress taken much more seriously than the others you list and 2) she doesn't have anywhere near the public profile of the others, and hence didn't attract any fire from the right wing nutters who would dismiss Brown Bunny as arty liberal trash anyway. Click to expand I think your right and shame, humiliation, guilt are also apart of their sex lives. And I agree about Chloe. Most of her fame now comes from that minute and a half blowjob. Porn entering the mainstream will put and end to sexual repression and to shame, humiliation, and guilt in sexual desires. It will be a very hard fight but I think it will happen. I heard an interest story on CNN last week. A poll showed the fastest grow religious group is far right evangelistic Christian. But more people by far are dropping all religious affiliations. What that means I don’t know LOL I just think its interesting LOL All laws regarding morality and sex come from 13% of the Republican Party. Not 13% of the nation, just the Republican Party. A very small number of people, to sexually repress an entire nation. How do they do it? Shame, Humiliation, and Public Ridicule. [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 11:03AM Most of her fame comes from Big Love on HBO. Without that show we would not be discussing that BJ....no one saw that movie. [Link]
Shagdog Member Houston 626 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 11:14AM Clam Digger wrote: Most of her fame comes from Big Love on HBO. Without that show we would not be discussing that BJ....no one saw that movie. Click to expand I disagree I had never heard of that show until this thread. But when Brown Bunny premiered at the Cannes Film Festival. It was talked about for a week on Entertainment shows. And got world wide news coverage. And it was the most watched film that year at the Festival. I didn't see the movie either. But I saw the blow job. A minute and a half blow job is not worth buying the movie. Edited by - Shagdog on 3/12/2008 1:00:06 PM [Link]
Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 4:29PM The first I heard of Brown Bunny was the discussion about the Chloe Sevigny BJ. That was when Brown Bunny was first shown, long before Big Love. If she hadn't already been a well known name then it wouldn't have received the same attention. I certainly remembered her from Boys Don't Cry. That was hardly an obscure little film, and Chloe was Oscar nominated for her performance in it. The fact that she's hot probably helped her to stick in my mind. Shame Brown Bunny was such a load of shite. Definitely wasn't worth watching all the way through just to see a bit of very unerotic sex. Her softcore girl/girl with Hilary Swank made for better mainstream smut. Not that either film was created with the intention of giving me an erection... [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 5:52PM I knew about Chloe Sevigny ever since Larry Clark's Kids. [Link]
MFD Member 97 Posts 4/03	Posted - Mar 13 2008 : 1:23PM I agree with Shagdog's contention that a mainstream star will do something in porn. I'm willing to bet that some up and coming young male talent, not unlike how Marlon Brando did that anal scene in Last Tango, will grow tired of his rapidly increasing fame. He will be do an unsimulated sex scene for some independent feature as a way to sabotage his career so to speak. Then the critics will argue that it isn't porn as the sex drives the plot and it's a classically trained actor who is doing it. This actor's strategy will backfire and he will gain more notoriety. That same year, an acclaimed female actress of the same age will do the same thing and everyone will call her a slut. [Link]
moodyblues Member 307 Posts 1/08	Posted - Mar 21 2008 : 7:15AM MikeSouth wrote: To my knowledge there has only been one truly successful crossover but it was a guy, Sonny Landham All this said I think if theres one girl in porn right now that is poised to at least semi-successfully make the transition it would be Stormy. She is smart, ambitious and she is willing to do what it takes to get there. Click to expand And Wade Nichols. He spent a few years on the soap 'Edge of Night' before committing suicide. The director of Grease wanted to cast Harry Reems as the coach in the movie, but the studio vetoed it. And there was a rumor on RAME years ago, that Asia Carrera was dating someone high up in production of the tv series Melrose Place and that she broke it off when it became clear she was not going to get a role on the show. As time has gone on, there are very few porn stars that wanted to be in mainstream movies and tv. There are a meager handful this generation: Aurora, Ava Vincent, Kurt Lockwood, Evan Stone, and a few others. Edited by - moodyblues on 3/21/2008 7:38:21 AM [Link]

Shylock Spieglergirls.com "Patron of the Tarts" 2431 Posts 3/03	Posted - Oct 14 2008 : 5:03PM Sasha Grey has finally made the first REAL crossover into mainstream movies. She's the STAR (not co-star or bit player) of Academy Award winning director Steven Sodergbergh's new film "The Girlfriend Experience." Sasha Grey Stars in Steven Soderbergh Feature SHYLOCK "Patron of the Tarts" Spieglergirls.com Mark Spiegler - Myspace page [Link]
Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Oct 14 2008 : 7:15PM Congratulations to Sasha! Being cast in a film like that's a real achievement for any actress, but it has to be unprecedented for a porn performer. I'm a bit of a Soderbergh fan myself so I'll definitely be checking this out. [Link]
Derek117 Senior Member 1605 Posts 1/06	Posted - Oct 14 2008 : 10:29PM Congrats to Sasha! I hope that she's really got the "Lead" in the film, not just a girl who gets naked to give the film some spice. [Link]
Shylock Spieglergirls.com "Patron of the Tarts" 2431 Posts 3/03	Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 12:18AM Derek117 wrote: Congrats to Sasha! I hope that she's really got the "Lead" in the film, not just a girl who gets naked to give the film some spice. Click to expand Derek117, Sasha does have one of the lead roles. This has been in the works for almost a year. SHYLOCK "Patron of the Tarts" Spieglergirls.com Mark Spiegler - Myspace page [Link]
Shagdog Member Houston 626 Posts 1/07	Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 5:08AM Congratulations Sasha! [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 5:29AM Shylock wrote: Sasha Grey has finally made the first REAL crossover into mainstream movies. She's the STAR (not co-star or bit player) of Academy Award winning director Steven Sodergbergh's new film "The Girlfriend Experience." Sasha Grey Stars in Steven Soderbergh Feature Click to expand That's what I call crossover! [Link]
julien1982 Member Mean and Rude 600 Posts 7/05	Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 6:10AM Congrats! [Link]
Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06	Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 10:31AM This is stellar news. Congrats to Sasha! A little bit more about [ invalid url ], Grey is credited as an "unkown" actress. i'm surprised ultradamno hasn't linked the crap out of this in "Pop Culture". [Link]
Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 2:24PM Savoy wrote: And a tabloid, Grey is credited as an "unkown" actress. Click to expand So they had several minutes of close up footage of Sasha and still couldn't find out her name? Not a single porn fan among them? They're giving paparazzi a bad name. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 2:33PM ^If you read the text below the vid link, they even suggest that the girl might be Ryder Skye. What a bunch of idiots. [Link]
Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06	Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 7:47AM They can't even spell. Killbill, you expect too much. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 3:05PM ^Haha. You're right! That's a good point. Even for tabloid bullshit, you'd think that hiring an editor wouldn't be out of their budget and/or beyond their standards. But apparently, it is. [edit: I noticed that they have updated it and, thanks to someone's comment, they now acknowledge that it's Sasha Grey. At least they were able to admit their readers are smarter than they are, I guess.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 10/18/2008 3:08:20 PM [Link]
Herzog Deactivated User 245 Posts 2/12	Posted - Apr 14 2012 : 9:49PM The Kardashians will be crossing over in 2013. [Link]
Electric_Logan Member 384 Posts 6/11	Posted - Apr 15 2012 : 1:32PM It doesn't seem to bother Steven Soderbergh which is cool - he hired Sasha Grey to star in the lead role in a film! Boogie Nights is all about porn and stars a few porn stars, the most well known of which would be Nina Hartley. It's a cult classic now. And the Oscars even gave it recognition which is quite somethin' given all the porn stuff in the film. [Link]
geralt Member 495 Posts 7/11	Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 12:42PM stupid prejudice, I don't think that working in porn is a bad things. Pornstars are people too as everyone else and needs to be respected. So insane that many people have lost their job because of their "shady" past. Like pornstars can't be good and competent people irl. [Link]
JohnW Senior Member 1351 Posts 6/08	Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 1:42PM I don't agree that the acting in porn to any big degree indicates acting ability with regards to mainstream movies/tv. Maybe a small subset of the skills needed are improved by porn experience, but I doubt there is much significance to it. It is just a question of statistics. There are horrible actors in many movies and tv shows, and many of those have worked hard to get where they are today. Even in the relatively large pool of porn "stars" there are few with the talent. And those who succeed in porn are not necessarily those with those talents, in fact "success" in porn in many cases don't even have anything to do with their ability to act well during sex. Sure, the stigma of a porn past is a factor, but I just don't buy the claim that there is a huge talent pool within the porn world. [Link]

Author

Post

Shagdog
Member

Houston
626 Posts
1/07

Posted - Mar 9 2008 : 4:49PM

I've seen Chloe Sevigny blow job, she gets an A+ for cock sucking

I disagree she is an Indie actress which means the major studios don't consider her enough of a talent to sign to a contract. Not even for small supporting rolls. Her appearing "In Boys don't cry" was very controversial.
That what Indie films are, about controversy. Major studios play it safe, Indie take chances.
And she still has a job

If any porn actress goes to non-sex mainstream. I believe it will be you.
You are very captivating. And have the strength to do it.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 4:43AM

A sex scene with Mark Ruffalo, which was no more explicit than a typical sex scene in the 70s, is not 'almost porn.'

[Link]

Shagdog
Member

Houston
626 Posts
1/07

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 9:26AM

"In the Cut" with Meg Ryan is exactly the movie I'm talking about.
Meg Ryan The forgotten actress wanting to become relevant again. Doing her first full nude scene and simulated sex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Cut
If full blown explicit sex had been added with Meg Ryan getting fucked . It would have been a landmark film and talked about for generations.
The money generated would have been enormous and it would continue to sell for generations to come. It would surpass any movie ever made in money and fame.
But at this time in our history, with the religious right, so well organized and powerful.
It would have come at the tremendous cost to Meg Ryan.
The hate generated by the religious right would have taken an enormous emotional toll on Meg Ryan.
That is why Chloe Sevigny, Pam Anderson, Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian and others sex tapes are huge victories.
Their sex tapes came at the height of the the religious rights power and influence.
They are still working and still in the public eye. None were forced into the black hole of shame.
History all so tells us. the religious right's power and influence will fade. Their ability to mount a hate campaign will be diminished.
It's time for a porn actress to tell the "Joy Behar and Tyre Banks" of the world to quit being "sexually repressed old prudes." "Your attitudes go back to the days when women were property and only worth was as brood mares."
Everyone has sex and it's time to quit hiding it.

Edited by - Shagdog on 3/10/2008 10:04:03 AM

[Link]

Jeff @ IAFD

Webmaster IAFD.COM

931 Posts
6/00

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 10:32AM

Why do you think a country that doesn't really embrace porn would support seeing Meg Ryan getting fucked to the tune of "enormous" receipts? It might have boosted box office 10% or so, for the lookie-loo factor.. but you're also assuming that there'd be theatres who would show the movie. How many theatres showed The Brown Bunny? Not too many.
Plus, there is no definition of "crossover" that really works. The line is fluid -- it means different things to different people. Is it winning an Oscar? Appearing in a rock video? Somewhere in-between?
The most successful crossover is probably Jenna if only because she has tabloids other than AVN interested in her. Traci Lords comes in second.
Past that, everyone else might have a fleeting appearance in the mainstream, and it doesn't separate them from any other struggling actor or actress in the industry. Ashlyn Gere is a huge pornstar in the late 90s and gets two guest shots on the X Files and Millennium. Looking at those appearances apart from her X Rates past, they're no more remarkable than any other SAG/AFTRA member's guest shot; its only notability is that she was able to overcome a stigma of having fucked on film before landing those roles. (It didn't hurt that Chris Carter is a huge porn fan.)
I think the hurdles are lower to crossover, but you will never see a Scarlett Johansson level star with a porn past. It's just too much trouble to sell her to middle America, not to mention porn-hostile international markets.
Porn performers will continue to be marginalized in mainstream Hollywood as long as there are busloads of performers without the baggage of porn. That's not to say there won't be some producers who won't try to capitalize on some porn fame, but it won't be widespread...

[Link]

Shagdog
Member

Houston
626 Posts
1/07

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 11:31AM

Jeff @ IAFD wrote:

Click to expand

What country do you live it. Unless "we who are not in the industry" are being lied to about the amount of money generated by porn. There is a lot of interested in porn in the US.
Chloe Sevigny is not Meg Ryan. I don't see how you think it wouldn't make enormous sums of money. The world wide publicity and world wide audiences.
Check out and see how many people searched the web for Britney Spears pussy pictures. Also check out the money and interest in "Deep throat" in porns only other landmark porn film.
If you would go back to the bottom of the first page. You will see I explained.
Theaters will not show the porn version of the movie. The censured version will be shown in theaters and the porn version released on DVD.
Just like "uncut version" are already done.
At this time people will not go set in a theater and watch a porn movie. But as we know the privacy of their home is a different story.
And I already said we're not ready for this to happen. But we are moving in the direction of acceptance.

Edited by - Shagdog on 3/10/2008 11:34:17 AM

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 11:37AM

Yes. But in the US, [porn is something you're supposed to hide in the shadows and watch. You can still hear the disdain with which "respectable" folks speak of it (even if they probably do have a huge stash of it at home).

I doubt it.

Edited by - Shagdog on 3/10/2008 11:34:17 AM

Click to expand

[Link]

Shagdog
Member

Houston
626 Posts
1/07

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 12:19PM

Click to expand

Up until 1973 porn was illegal in this county. Even men of lower class wouldn’t admit to watching porn much less liking porn.
That was 38 years ago, see how far porn has come in face of tremendous opposition from the religious right.
Now you have women openly saying the watch and enjoy porn. And the numbers are growing everyday.
I have friend’s men and women and we discuss porn. What web sites we go to and DVD’s we rent or buy and we’ve traded too.
And you don’t think we’re moving toward acceptance? I know we are.
Remember the earliest cave drawing found so for is of people fucking.
Every sexual perversion known to man has been depicted in myths, craved in stone, and painting.
As soon as the camera was invented people started making porn.
People are interested in seeing other people fuck Always have and always will.
RandomPrecision I have always been amused by the fact. That all the things these people did in their daily lives. What they thought was important to leave to future generation was "all the different position they had learn to fuck in."
Edited by - Shagdog on 3/10/2008 12:32:04 PM

[Link]

Jeff @ IAFD

Webmaster IAFD.COM

931 Posts
6/00

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 12:39PM

I'd have to ask what country YOU live in? If things were as mainstream as you claim, AVN would be at the checkout counter next to People. US Magazine would be spotlighting Teagan's new baby, etc.
Instead 98% of all porn mentions in mainstream media is prefaced with "tsk, tsk" -- you don't see Belladonna on 20/20 as a successful businesswoman, you see her as a victim.
Porn stars are trotted out during sweeps weeks because producers hope people will tune in to see if Stormy's tit just happens to pop out on Tyra's set; or if she starts to suck one of the audience members off because she's just so sex-crazed.
NYPD Blue just got fined from pressure from society for a scene that aired 5 years ago!

How much do you think the Paris Hilton tape made?
Figure they moved a million units -- and that's probably generous. That's $40 million dollars (retail, no discounting). Hardly a princely sum when compared to Hollywood fare. A piece of crap like 10,000 BC makes $35 million in ONE WEEKEND.

Because it's free and because it's in the privacy of their own home. Deep Throat was from a different time. While we're freer in some areas socially, we're more repressed. Porn theatres went away for a reason -- they were driven out of town. Look at AVN or FSC's website -- every week there's another town trying to shut down sexually explicit businesses. There's no way that society is all rah-rah-rah about this kind of stuff. Maybe in 40 years when kids today are running things (tho they said that about the hippies and stoners in the 60s legalizing pot when they came into power, didn't they?) but I doubt it.

I did miss that explanation. Doesn't really change anything tho. A Meg Ryan sex tape -- especially since it's really now nothing more than high-budget plotted porn -- has slim marketability. I don't know if there's anyone -- Angelina Jolie, maybe? -- that could actually move any substantial number of units of an unrated DVD.

I don't think so. I wish so. I wish we'd live in a place where there's more fucking on TV than violence, but we're not. The prudes still have a gigantic voice. Look at local politics for your answers. Watch how senior citizens come out in droves to vote down anything that doesn't have to do with them; and how they have such a huge voice in your community which is ignored almost 100% of the time.. but try to get anything done without them... or try to sell them porn. :-)
(fixed 10,000BC gross)
Edited by - Jeff @ IAFD on 3/10/2008 12:41:20 PM

[Link]

Shagdog
Member

Houston
626 Posts
1/07

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 1:42PM

Jeff @ IAFD I have addressed every point you made, and I think you are wrong.
But we are both trying to predict the future. Only time will tell who is right. LOL But I have time on my side, a lot of it. lol
And no one can dispute porn is moving in the direction of acceptance.
And again Paris Hilton is not Meg Ryan. You can multiply that 40 million by 10 very conservatively, and thats 400 million for a low budget movie. I think you can double that number or triple it. With world wide distribution.
The time is past for Meg Ryan and the "In the Cut movie" and was used only as an example of how I think porn will become mainstream.
But another movie and another actress will come a long when the time is right.

[Link]

Cerebral Jedi
Senior Member

I don't trust men who don't like big tits.
1067 Posts
12/04

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 3:51PM

C'mon. I think you're being too harsh on the guy. Especially when one of your examples is really weak. I mean Bree Olson on ONE episode of an cable show, one credit out of 91 is hardly a shining example of crossing over. As for Traci Lords she has clearly crossed over into "legit" movies/Projects. Some of them even of good quality and high profile. Hell she's gotten some good reviews. But then again a lot of it struggles to be considered even B movie quality. I guess it really depends on what one considers crossing over is. A straight to DVD non-porn movie made on a show string budget? Or the 1st or 2nd leading female role opposite a Brad Pitt in a big studio movie that is anticipated to make huge money. Let's face it, the latter ain't happening anytime soon.

[Link]

Savoy

All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
1844 Posts
12/06

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 3:54PM

Traci Lords did a bangup job of talking shit about the industry as well. Don't forget that.

[Link]

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 4:03PM

Bree may have been a poor example. I used Bree Olson and Traci Lords to show the OP that something they declared impossible ("can't") can indeed happen.
Then again when I see a porn star doing a non-sex role on a popular show I don't know what else to call it but a crossover to mainstream, no matter how small. To me crossover to mainstream does not imply huge mainstream popularity, just that one works in both genres.
EDIT: for clarity.

Edited by - conquistador on 3/10/2008 4:21:29 PM

[Link]

Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
2268 Posts
1/05

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 10:21PM

Well that is pretty cryptic.

[Link]

stinkfist
Senior Member

Subterfuge......
7401 Posts
4/07

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 10:59PM

I think Gianna could crossover no problem,always such a confident person on film.Enjoys the camera,takes everything in her stride.

[Link]

kataboom
master blaster

ad astra per aspera
995 Posts
6/03

Posted - Mar 10 2008 : 11:58PM

cause they cant act

[Link]

wheat
Senior Member

You want a toe? I can get you a toe
1131 Posts
4/06

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 2:20AM

It's pretty obvious, nobody outside of the people who participate in and watch porn have any idea about or interest in porn stars.
Sure people have heard of jenna jameson but she's the exception not the rule and even then she has no real place in the accepted mainstream.
Im sure a girl who does porn could one day become a mainstream actress but lets face it, that would be in spite of her porn background not because of it.

[Link]

customer20983
Member

77 Posts
2/08

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:04AM

As many here have already said, there is a LOT of interest in actual porn STARS -- people with notable on-screen sexual acting ability who have an established paying fan base, not merely someone who has done one or two sex segments -- to bring that established money market to a mainstream film market. But because of many already stated reasons, most adult performers are not considered for mainstream movies.

Again there are MANY sex film performers who have had background and walk-on roles in many different films. But as many have said for various reasons, most of them who are able to deliver lines usually do not progress into mainstream projects, unless they are either of exceptional talent or/and are willing to accept roles in mostly non-lead roles for low budget film projects.

Again there are quite a few sex film performers who have been, and are, mainstream actress/actors. But these quote unquote cross over performers are usually in support and background roles. Of the notables, I find that it is BECAUSE of their former sex film background that they have been able to make a career in their mainstream appearance such as Traci Lords who would not have been as half as successful as she was without her constantly bringing up and then denying her time in the industry, as her acting ability is marginal at best outside of playing anger, regardless of whether open hate or disinterested disdain. Lords can't do any other emotion on camera with any believability.

[Link]

jandilin
Member

I am nothing. I am everything.
22 Posts
3/08

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:10AM

In order to be a good [mainstream] actor, a person needs to immerse themselves completely in the role. Create a history, believe that history, and live the character. They need to FEEL exactly how that character would feel.
A good porn actor (and I'm not speaking for all of them, but most of them) turn OFF their feelings in order to get through that 10-guy-gangbang or hour-and-a-half-long-DP. If we always kept our feelings on, we'd never survive!
Point is, these are opposite skill-sets. And I really don't think that every porn girl or guy aspires to crossover to mainstream media. I think that there is definitely a level of narcissism and an ego that needs to be fulfilled, but that porn should not be looked at as the "last resort" for that fulfillment.

[Link]

wheat
Senior Member

You want a toe? I can get you a toe
1131 Posts
4/06

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:24AM

There is a lot interest HERE in porn stars, of course there is it would be odd if there wasn't.
This place is in no way reflective of mainstream society.
The vast majority of people do not have a detailed knowledge or interest in porn stars they don't even have a passing knowledge.
I also don't think there has been a general agenda from hollywood to block porn performers from achieving mainstream film success.
True success in the mainstream is achieved by a tiny fraction of those who set out to achieve it, we are talking thousands upon thousands of highly skilled actors who have dedicated themslves to making it and yet they fail to make any impact.
Do you really think these actual trained actors are less skilled than girls who make porn films?

[Link]

customer20983
Member

77 Posts
2/08

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:25AM

You are entitled to your position but I respectfully disagree as most of the successful porn stars usually say the opposite as many have repeatedly said they feel they need to be able to emotionally connect with their performers on the set, not merely have someone who is courtious to them reaming like there is no tomorrow.
Mai Lin said it best when she said "I need to feel that the guy I am with on set is interested in me and really trying to make the ground move for me. BUT I know the difference between the guy I am with when the cameras are on and my REAL guys who aren't there with a camera."
Otherwise, no offense, we usually get performances from most sex film performers' that can be casually interexchanged with most other performers' scenes -- other than those fans who are looking for a particular performer and can care less about how believable the acting done in the scene is.

[Link]

customer20983
Member

77 Posts
2/08

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:50AM

I disagree as a LOT of casual consumers from the quote unquote mainstream market DO watch a LOT of porn (both soft and hard core) and have more than a passing knowledge of perforemrs who have had more than a single performance exposure. Performers who have notable appearance levels such as Stormy Daniels and Sasha Grey are well known to that casual consumer market though the lessor exposed have less marketability and thus less awareness in the mainstream market.

UNfortuantely yes there is. Most studio acting contracts now include the famous "non-righteous" clauses in the signing where not only full background checks are mandated which allows the studios to question not only you and your immediate family to verify you will not be a potential liability to the studio but also question and review your family's contacts, former school members and research nearly everything you have ever done in order to prevent the hiring studio from hiring people who have quote unquote questionable backgrounds or activities. Though I find it is more enforced for radio personalities today than acting performers, otherwise actors like Tim Allen would never have gotten his Disney film contracts after his long jail time for illegal drug usage and sales.

As many have said before success is a matter of being completely prepared when the opportunity presents itself. Unfortunately I find that too many performers in the sex film industry have NO ambition and do it as a knock off. Occasionally I DO find the exception like Ashley Renee who through almost an insane devotion to maintaining her health and self preservation has been able to endure as long as she has. But again when you compare someone like Ashley to the majority of the people in this biz, you have to admit the facts.

Do I think that many quote unquote mainstream actors have more skill than most girls who make porn? Yes but only because of the sheer number of quote unquote mainstream actresses and performers. Many of the acting group have VERY LOW to almost no acting skill when they audition for roles. This is true in the case of many now notable actors and actresses. Take for example the very well known case of Will Smith who repeatedly stated before getting the break out show "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" had NEVER attended an acting class or even acting group. But because of his determination and willingness to dedicate himself to actually learn how to act from the professionals he was around he developed his skill set to the point where he was able to show off his skills when allowed to such as in "Six Degrees of Seperation", "Ali" and "The Pursuit of Happyness", despite being known for screaming and blowing things up in movies like "Independence Day".
As stated before I find most who get into porn are not looking to expend that level of determination and dedication, while some have no interest at all in getting into acting as their end career, but something else altogether different and use their money to aid them to fulfill that ambition.
Edited by - customer20983 on 3/11/2008 3:51:46 AM

[Link]

plandr
Member

79 Posts
8/07

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:51AM

Wow, didn't expect this to blow up so much.
I'll only say that crossing over is a matter of subjectivity. conquistador and other posters in this topic giving me or others a hard time about the position that porn girls haven't crossed over would do well to realize this.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 3:58AM

Even the right wing like their 'whores,' it is even possible that that kind of hypocrisy is an essential part of their prudery.
I would also argue that Chloe Sevigny is a different case from the others, 1) she is a real actress taken much more seriously than the others you list and 2) she doesn't have anywhere near the public profile of the others, and hence didn't attract any fire from the right wing nutters who would dismiss Brown Bunny as arty liberal trash anyway.

[Link]

Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
2268 Posts
1/05

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 6:30PM

I think if anyone spends just a little time looking favorite mainstream stars at imdb.com it would be noticed that many spent a lot of years studying their craft at schools and university. They didn't spend their time flipping burgers or working retail and then walked out onto a sound stage and into a principal role in a major or even and Indie movie, let alone a network TV show.
Big difference.

[Link]

MikeSouth
Deactivated User

511 Posts
11/02

Posted - Mar 11 2008 : 6:58PM

Dead on the money

[Link]

NerdGod
Member

Using a 2 inch cock like it was 12
480 Posts
7/06

Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 2:15AM

yeah real talent to fake enjoyment.
people who study acting for years dont make it in mainstream what makes you think a pornstar on set and does 1 scene for maybe an hour consits of the type of folming and work hollywood does? it doesnt.
and traci lords was a crappy actor in mainstream.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 3:39AM

Bet you couldn't fake it.

Most Hollywood actors suck. There are a handful of really good ones, quite a few mediocre ones and a whole lot of really shitty ones. I never saw Traci Lords in anything but she probably fit right in. I'd say she was more likely to fit in between mediocre and really shitty.

[Link]

Shagdog
Member

Houston
626 Posts
1/07

Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 11:01AM

BlackSix wrote:
Shagdog wrote:
"That is why Chloe Sevigny, Pam Anderson, Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian and others sex tapes are huge victories.
Their sex tapes came at the height of the the religious rights power and influence.
They are still working and still in the public eye. None were forced into the black hole of shame.
Click to expand
Even the right wing like their 'whores,' it is even possible that that kind of hypocrisy is an essential part of their prudery.
I would also argue that Chloe Sevigny is a different case from the others, 1) she is a real actress taken much more seriously than the others you list and 2) she doesn't have anywhere near the public profile of the others, and hence didn't attract any fire from the right wing nutters who would dismiss Brown Bunny as arty liberal trash anyway.
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I think your right and shame, humiliation, guilt are also apart of their sex lives.
And I agree about Chloe. Most of her fame now comes from that minute and a half blowjob.
Porn entering the mainstream will put and end to sexual repression and to shame, humiliation, and guilt in sexual desires.
It will be a very hard fight but I think it will happen.
I heard an interest story on CNN last week. A poll showed the fastest grow religious group is far right evangelistic Christian. But more people by far are dropping all religious affiliations.
What that means I don’t know LOL I just think its interesting LOL
All laws regarding morality and sex come from 13% of the Republican Party. Not 13% of the nation, just the Republican Party.
A very small number of people, to sexually repress an entire nation. How do they do it? Shame, Humiliation, and Public Ridicule.

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Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
2268 Posts
1/05

Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 11:03AM

Most of her fame comes from Big Love on HBO. Without that show we would not be discussing that BJ....no one saw that movie.

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Shagdog
Member

Houston
626 Posts
1/07

Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 11:14AM

I disagree
I had never heard of that show until this thread.
But when Brown Bunny premiered at the Cannes Film Festival. It was talked about for a week on Entertainment shows. And got world wide news coverage.
And it was the most watched film that year at the Festival.
I didn't see the movie either. But I saw the blow job.
A minute and a half blow job is not worth buying the movie.

Edited by - Shagdog on 3/12/2008 1:00:06 PM

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Dave_K99
Member

497 Posts
12/07

Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 4:29PM

The first I heard of Brown Bunny was the discussion about the Chloe Sevigny BJ. That was when Brown Bunny was first shown, long before Big Love. If she hadn't already been a well known name then it wouldn't have received the same attention.
I certainly remembered her from Boys Don't Cry. That was hardly an obscure little film, and Chloe was Oscar nominated for her performance in it. The fact that she's hot probably helped her to stick in my mind.
Shame Brown Bunny was such a load of shite. Definitely wasn't worth watching all the way through just to see a bit of very unerotic sex. Her softcore girl/girl with Hilary Swank made for better mainstream smut. Not that either film was created with the intention of giving me an erection...

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Mar 12 2008 : 5:52PM

I knew about Chloe Sevigny ever since Larry Clark's Kids.

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MFD
Member

97 Posts
4/03

Posted - Mar 13 2008 : 1:23PM

I agree with Shagdog's contention that a mainstream star will do something in porn. I'm willing to bet that some up and coming young male talent, not unlike how Marlon Brando did that anal scene in Last Tango, will grow tired of his rapidly increasing fame. He will be do an unsimulated sex scene for some independent feature as a way to sabotage his career so to speak.
Then the critics will argue that it isn't porn as the sex drives the plot and it's a classically trained actor who is doing it.
This actor's strategy will backfire and he will gain more notoriety. That same year, an acclaimed female actress of the same age will do the same thing and everyone will call her a slut.

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moodyblues
Member

307 Posts
1/08

Posted - Mar 21 2008 : 7:15AM

And Wade Nichols. He spent a few years on the soap 'Edge of Night' before committing suicide.
The director of Grease wanted to cast Harry Reems as the coach in the movie, but the studio vetoed it. And there was a rumor on RAME years ago, that Asia Carrera was dating someone high up in production of the tv series Melrose Place and that she broke it off when it became clear she was not going to get a role on the show. As time has gone on, there are very few porn stars that wanted to be in mainstream movies and tv. There are a meager handful this generation: Aurora, Ava Vincent, Kurt Lockwood, Evan Stone, and a few others.
Edited by - moodyblues on 3/21/2008 7:38:21 AM

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Shylock
Spieglergirls.com

"Patron of the Tarts"
2431 Posts
3/03

Posted - Oct 14 2008 : 5:03PM

Sasha Grey has finally made the first REAL crossover into mainstream movies. She's the STAR (not co-star or bit player) of Academy Award winning director Steven Sodergbergh's new film "The Girlfriend Experience."
Sasha Grey Stars in Steven Soderbergh Feature

SHYLOCK
"Patron of the Tarts"
Spieglergirls.com

Mark Spiegler - Myspace page

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Dave_K99
Member

497 Posts
12/07

Posted - Oct 14 2008 : 7:15PM

Congratulations to Sasha!
Being cast in a film like that's a real achievement for any actress, but it has to be unprecedented for a porn performer.
I'm a bit of a Soderbergh fan myself so I'll definitely be checking this out.

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Derek117
Senior Member

1605 Posts
1/06

Posted - Oct 14 2008 : 10:29PM

Congrats to Sasha! I hope that she's really got the "Lead" in the film, not just a girl who gets naked to give the film some spice.

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Shylock
Spieglergirls.com

"Patron of the Tarts"
2431 Posts
3/03

Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 12:18AM

Derek117,

Sasha does have one of the lead roles. This has been in the works for almost a year.

SHYLOCK
"Patron of the Tarts"
Spieglergirls.com

Mark Spiegler - Myspace page

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Shagdog
Member

Houston
626 Posts
1/07

Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 5:08AM

Congratulations Sasha!

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juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 5:29AM

That's what I call crossover!

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julien1982
Member

Mean and Rude
600 Posts
7/05

Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 6:10AM

Congrats!

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Savoy

All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
1844 Posts
12/06

Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 10:31AM

This is stellar news. Congrats to Sasha!
A little bit more about [ invalid url ], Grey is credited as an "unkown" actress.
i'm surprised ultradamno hasn't linked the crap out of this in "Pop Culture".

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Dave_K99
Member

497 Posts
12/07

Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 2:24PM

So they had several minutes of close up footage of Sasha and still couldn't find out her name?
Not a single porn fan among them?
They're giving paparazzi a bad name.

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killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 2:33PM

^If you read the text below the vid link, they even suggest that the girl might be Ryder Skye. What a bunch of idiots.

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Savoy

All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
1844 Posts
12/06

Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 7:47AM

They can't even spell. Killbill, you expect too much.

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killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 3:05PM

^Haha. You're right! That's a good point.
Even for tabloid bullshit, you'd think that hiring an editor wouldn't be out of their budget and/or beyond their standards. But apparently, it is.
[edit: I noticed that they have updated it and, thanks to someone's comment, they now acknowledge that it's Sasha Grey. At least they were able to admit their readers are smarter than they are, I guess.]
Edited by - killbillvol69 on 10/18/2008 3:08:20 PM

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Herzog
Deactivated User

245 Posts
2/12

Posted - Apr 14 2012 : 9:49PM

The Kardashians will be crossing over in 2013.

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Electric_Logan
Member

384 Posts
6/11

Posted - Apr 15 2012 : 1:32PM

It doesn't seem to bother Steven Soderbergh which is cool - he hired Sasha Grey to star in the lead role in a film!
Boogie Nights is all about porn and stars a few porn stars, the most well known of which would be Nina Hartley. It's a cult classic now. And the Oscars even gave it recognition which is quite somethin' given all the porn stuff in the film.

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geralt
Member

495 Posts
7/11

Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 12:42PM

stupid prejudice, I don't think that working in porn is a bad things. Pornstars are people too as everyone else and needs to be respected.
So insane that many people have lost their job because of their "shady" past. Like pornstars can't be good and competent people irl.

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JohnW
Senior Member

1351 Posts
6/08

Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 1:42PM

I don't agree that the acting in porn to any big degree indicates acting ability with regards to mainstream movies/tv. Maybe a small subset of the skills needed are improved by porn experience, but I doubt there is much significance to it.
It is just a question of statistics. There are horrible actors in many movies and tv shows, and many of those have worked hard to get where they are today. Even in the relatively large pool of porn "stars" there are few with the talent. And those who succeed in porn are not necessarily those with those talents, in fact "success" in porn in many cases don't even have anything to do with their ability to act well during sex.
Sure, the stigma of a porn past is a factor, but I just don't buy the claim that there is a huge talent pool within the porn world.

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