This is interesting. You're implying that straight males that are gay-for-pay is rampant in gay porn. Can anyone back this up? mod: snipped the quote Edited by - hardware on 10/20/2007 10:14:15 PM
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 8:57PM
The broader question of how male talent gets established in the industry has come up before, but maybe not for a while. I've said before that I think one of the key limiting constraints in porn production is the availability of quality male talent. This is why John Strong gets so much work. It's hard to find guys that can keep their wood up on set. That said, if I were running a studio, I would try to find a way to bring in new dudes and ease them in - probably by having them provide the cock for blowjob scenes, gangbangs, etc. - mope stuff in other words. I don't think it would take that long to figure out if a dude could perform. Once I found that guy, I would book him for a bunch of scenes and thereby gain a bit of an advantage over my competitors that are still hiring guys like Alex Sanders. This is how I would look at it from a business perspective. And yes, this would involve some upfront investment from companies. But, you know, in the real world companies make upfront investments in new employees all the time, without any real expectation of an immediate payback. A lot of times, when you bring on someone new, you're just hoping it doesn't turn into a fucking disaster. If you can get someone in that will just be an average performer, you count that as a success. Believe me, I see that shit all the time.
Personally, as a young male myself, I take issue with the old geezers being more "skilled". By skilled do you mean they are able to cum on cue because they aren't getting any sexual satisfaction? then maybe. Looking like a robot ( which is what the majority of the old geezers in the biz look like), is not something common amoung young males. We don't need viagra. We don't need to masterbate a few minutes after bangin' a hot girl just to get a load out. If that's what the porn industry wants, so be it.
a couple of things here. first of all, you do realize that its much harder for new guys to do BJ scenes, gangbangs, and mope stuff than regular boy/girl scenes right? blowbangs are the worst. there are 5 other strange dudes there, the crew, only 1 girl who is not even worried about you except for the 10 percent of the time she is blowing you. and the scenes that people would use Alex Sanders, those same people would never book a young guy for. its comparing apples to oranges. mod: snipped the quote Edited by - hardware on 10/22/2007 7:28:35 AM
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Oct 22 2007 : 6:46AM
^ Okay, so 1 on 1 scenes would work better. Cool. Whatever works. The main thing is to have a reasonably effective way to bring new guys into the business.
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Breetai Deactivated User
154 Posts 7/07
Posted - Oct 22 2007 : 11:46PM
I don't think the average 1-on-1 director would want to hire a crew and a female star, and then take a gamble on an unproven young male. Like I said, Shane's World College Invasion (among their other titles) has the best format for new talent. Throw them in the deep end and see if they sink or swim with a girl that's nearly unknown, filmed in a simple dorm room. If they do a memorable scene, you've found some new talent; if they shoot their load in 15 seconds and can't get hard again, it's perfect fodder for comic relief they intercut with the rest of the college party orgy stuff they film with the same crew at the same location.
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Oct 23 2007 : 4:53AM
Yes, you have to be willing to take the risk and make that upfront investment. Edited by - Porn Scout on 10/24/2007 1:13:53 AM
I had a harsher view than the one I hold now before I went into the adult entertainment industry. If you can't understand why, then you're not paying attention to the world around you.
Men are just as complicated (or simple) as women. That doesn't mean that either have desires that are harmonious with an enlightened, peaceful, harm-free world.
Honestly, having seen more than my fair share of what's been coming out of pornoland for the last few years, I'm not sure how a "minute man" 18 year old could fuck up the production any worse than the 45 year old who's always only semi hard, whose dick folds up like an accordion every time he tries to push it in and who probably gave his last really good performance well before he hit 30. Granted, there's something to be said for longevity. But the older guys who have longevity on their side have it because they have a hard time getting aroused by anything in the first place. Would you rather see ten minutes of good fucking and a dude who can get hard and stay hard or half an hour of a dude trying to fuck before he finally squeezes a few dribbles out? This is the reality. I'm not sure the older guys are any more reliable. I certainly get nothing out of seeing a guy who barely appears to be turned on fucking for 30 minutes. It might as well all be over with in five minutes because that's all it's worth. Granted, there are some older guys who can still pop a boner with the best of them. Rocco was doing good shit well past the age where many guys start having problems. Just about any guy who fucks for a living will eventually learn to control his impulses. And someday, he, too, will be another old timer trying to play a young man's game.
I agree. But I don't think the triumph over harmful desires is primarily a matter of "socialization" or "self-control", because the impulses to socialize a group in a particular way and to exercise self-control in line with certain standards must themselves come from somewhere. I see us all as beings with divided souls (for lack of a better word). Along with whatever bad impulses we have, most of us nurture an ideal of becoming someone better, of creating a better world. Although that yearning can be squashed by upbringing and other circumstances, I believe it's a basic part of our nature.
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Breetai Deactivated User
154 Posts 7/07
Posted - Oct 24 2007 : 2:08AM
Many of the older (and even not so old) veterans have far too much "longevity" if you ask me. One of the biggest turn offs in porn for many people today is the absurd number of male performers who pound every hole of a hot girl for 25 minutes, pull out saying they're going to cum on her face, spend 2 minutes trying to jerk off, then there's an edit, followed by him finally squeezing out a cumshot (like they're wringing out a sponge) that drips down on the girl's face (who looks bored to tears), with lots of fakes "oh yeah oh god oh yeah" from all involved trying to give it some intensity. I'd rather watch a really hot girl getting fucked by some inexperienced guy who can't quite make it look good before nature says "time's up" and he suddenly explodes all over her. At least you know he was glad to see her. Granted, she probably didn't enjoy it much, but then again, they typically enjoy it even less when they get pounded for 25 minutes by a veteran in porno-style.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Oct 24 2007 : 2:37AM
I don't doubt it is hard to find reliable male performers, regardless of age, but it does seem like with the arrival of the blue pill this is less and less of an issue (check out Randy Spears' podcast about this). I suspect that many of the older guys in porn are there because quite simply they have no where else to go. The likes of Ron Jeremy and Randy West (his scene with August is a horror show) should have moved on to producing and directing or editing by now as Paul Thomas, Eric Edwards, John Leslie and Stagliano have all done. Even Rocco is moving in that direction. These guys are still around because they have influence in the industry but no other talents that they can offer. It's kind of sad to see Hershel Savage back after all these years, he seems like a smart guy, I wonder what has happened in his life to make him return to performing. But at least he doesn't look like Ron and Randy. It is noticeable when a girl is enjoying herself and they (usually) enjoy themselves more when performing with an attractive male not old enough to be their father.
I was afraid of this, when Viagra came out. I thought, that the rates will drop since everybody can do the job now. But it did not happen.Or they don't want to go anywhere else. As long as people pay me well to have sex with hot girls, I will do it. Steve Holmes
First of all I don’t want to get rid of the older guys. I think the older guys with the 18 yr olds make very sexy porn. The idea that no 18 or 19 yr old can get the job done, well that is just stupid. The idea that it’s too risky to give a new guy a chance, well that is just stupid too. Someone gave every male performer in porn a chance. Everyone of them had their first scene. Granted I’ve never even been on a porn set. But I don’t see why fucking on film should difficult at all. But I have fucked and as a boss I have created a productive work environment. It seems to me the director or porn producer who ever is in charge is responsible for creating a sexy erotic environment for the talent to fuck in. Don’t say it’s impossible because some producers do it scene after scene and others that never do it. I still think there are MILF’s that would be delighted to break in the young guys.
Another very interesting thread. The idea that younger guys generally can't perform well on film has always been a false notion to me, and I think history back me up. Almost every pro-am scene with a younger guy I've seen, has generally gone well. Sure some ejaculated way too soon, but most did not. Most seemed to have no problems getting-it-back-up too. Most seemed to fuck pretty well also, which is another false assumption. About the only limp dicks I can recall, usually involved a lot of alcohol consumption, extreme over-confidence, or severe peer-pressure. Could be that only certain women or a certain kind of woman, will or can work with them. And they almost always fuck with some kind of real enthusiasm and seem to really enjoy being there. And there have always been younger guys involved in adult films. Guys like Tom Byron, Peter North, Blake Palmer, and Rocco all started pretty young, and went on to enjoy years and years of successful film work. And there are younger guys in the industry today. I think they've proven themselves on both the pro-am and professional side of the film. In a world of so many MILF titles, I really can't understand why they continue to be denied.
Doesn't have to be an either/or with me Steve. I myself have no problems with older guys doing porn and never have. Those who think an older guy and younger woman can't perform a hot scene, are obviously not watching the "right" films. Those scenes can be as hot as the hottest MILF scene when the right people are involved. I just wish more of the older guys would allow themselves the right to be more selective. If some young woman, be they cool or stuck-up, doesn't want to fuck them, then they simply shouldn't. Too often, I think the older guy will go along with it anyway. Why allow themselves the aggravation?
Hi Aplus, most viewers don't know how this business works. Usually I go to the set and have no idea what partner I will have or what scenario it will be. I LOVE my job! Most of the times I have a lot of fun and I try to make the girl comfortable, even if she is much younger than me. Sometimes it doesn't work. And of course some scenarios are just stupid. Just recently I was booked for a MILF scene with a girl who is 10 years younger than me. At the end of the day we just make jerk off material and this industry produces a lot of material. Nobody could ever watch everything produced. It's all about picking and choosing. Steve Holmes
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 30 2007 : 2:01AM
the ? is why is so much stuff produced when most of it never has an audience, i think it is b/c production costs are now next to nothing
I think that is one of the main problems in and of itself Steve, one that needs to be more examined and hopefully one day rectified. To me, winging it is generally a bad idea. Throwing two people together and just hoping they click is a recipe for disaster. We may not all know how the business works, but quality matters way more to some of us than the industry seems to think. To me, that is just too much pressure on the male performers. Sometimes great/good sex simply can't be rushed.
Hi Aplus, I see your point, but that's not the way it works. Imagine, someone calls me, tells me there is pussy and a nice cheque for me. Do you really expect me to say no because I'm not convinced that it will be the best scene of the year? This week was one of my best. I fucked Belladonna and Joanna Angel both for the first time. Both booked me for their own production. So they paid me to fuck them. I felt like a male whore and I loved it. I loved both scenes and I hope the fans will like them too. Steve Holmes
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 4:13AM
Bingo! But, the quantity of scenes produced each week is also why you see the male talent stretched so thin. There are really only a handful of quality dudes out there and they can only do so many scenes each.
Excuse me Steve, I'm stilling reeling from the fact that was your first scene with Belladonna. That statement alone put this conversation in whole other context. Wow! Ok, but the woman gets first choice idea, has always been a good idea to me. If a woman choses the guys, then I think the chances of a good scene tends to go up. I don't care if its the best scene of the year, but I do expect to at least see a "good" scene. Mind you such things are always subjective, but I think most can tell when performers aren't digging each other or especially hate each other. If the very idea of performing with a certain woman turns the guy on, even though she may or may not be feeling it, I say go for it. And vise-versa! But if both performers don't really want to do it, I seriously can't understand why they would. I'm talking beforehand now. Once on the set, I understand that money has been spent and the show simply must go on. I'm not that naive. But I do know that performers will go ahead and sometimes do scenes with people when they "know" they don't want to. And yeah I know rents and bills must be paid, but man I wish they would sometimes spare-us. Believe it or not, some of us don't like fast-fowarding sex scenes. I can't help but notice a lot of companies are going out-of-business, and I suspect some of it is due to producers assuming consumers will just accept or view anything they put out. It's a dangerous assumption.
If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06
Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 4:49PM
As I've said before I think 18's a little young to get into porn..BUT...as a woman, I would like to see some younger guys in the videos. Way too many of these guys look like they've done 20 years in Attica. Some fresher faces and cocks would be a good thing.
Me and Alana made "pick em young" . In it Alana searches out and hires 18 to 21 year old males to bang her milfy holes. The film went off great. The secret to getting the new guys to do a good job is...fuck that I'm not telling how we did it, but we had 0 wood issues and all the guys did good scenes.
maybe because straight porn fans don't even care if they are fucking an old wrinkly small dicked white guy! They just focus on the girl(s) and don't care about the partner. they COULD be thinking "why get an 18 year old guy when no one cares for the guys age?" I am guessing an 18-19 year old man for straight porn is not in demand.
I read that Scott Nails is out of the business and living in Arizona with Lacie Heart and their kid,it's true? Isn't Scott even now to have appeared in the work of the DP company?
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john_qyoo_public Deactivated User
265 Posts 7/05
Posted - Dec 2 2007 : 8:35AM
But, on the other side of that, there's probably a lot bigger male talent pool to draw from; for every hot chick willing to fuck on camera for a living, there's probably ten or twenty good looking, well-hung guys. Let's be honest here, a lot of what keeps the same five guys doing all the porn is plain old nepotism/favoritism. I mean, look at James Deen - no mystery there, he has barely enough talent (and not enough looks), but he obviously "knew someone."
Porn is not looking for guys who want to fuck as most 18 will or would want. The most successful studs appear to be rather cold blooded dudes who can jerk off on command. These guys are the favorite of the directors, while fan scour the listing for a little realism, or assuage their disappointment with The sad comment porn is fantasy. I for one am all for getting some new young studs in there and lets have fun. An infusion of young blood might wake these old director up to the possibility of gaining new female fans, and more money. I have a thought while the search is on for fresh new male actors maybe we can find some new directors. JM could retire He's just holding a spot and coming up with outlandish s^^t that has little to do with sex, except it involves nude people. Lets have younger more progressive guys everywhere in porn. Fucking is a young mans game.
Not really. Most boys and young man are horny as hell, but they mainly masturbate. Experience and social status makes it much easier to get pussy when you're over 30. Steve Holmes
Certainly would not want to argue with a man who has the experience you have. At 18 a guy can masturbate twice a day and still provide a good fuck. My comment fleshed out would read young men are highly charged sexually, and while there is no doubt an older man will have the advantage in knowledge and technique. The younger guy would win out in the lusty department. In porn it appears difficult to get across pure lust, I'm sure the directors appreciate an older guys control it would be great to see a guy just horny and can't wait to fuck.
18 is not the age of consent in most of the country. A majority of US states have an age of consent of 16. 18 is actually quite rare as an AoC. 18 just is the age of majority where girls can be in porn. (That does not mean it is legal for teachers to sleep with students under 18, there is almost always a clause making it illegal for step-parents, teachers, etc from sleeping with minors.) And schools frown on it even when the student is 18 or over.
younger guys have NO problem getting laid in general! I had always thought one of the ideas about porn in general is fantasy fullment. where the fuck is the "fantasy" about a guy who could already nail a hot chick in real life without a problem. maybe I am just old school.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 14 2007 : 10:59PM
Actually, in the 'old school' the men were all pretty young and reasonably handsome(except for the great Bobby Asytr): Holmes, Reems, Gillis, Edwards, Silvera, Wade Nichols, Marc Stevens, Payne, etc. Ron Jeremy was probably the first truly unappealing male performer in american porn, that I can think of, although to be fair at the beginning he wasn't quite so repulsive. Edited by - BlackSix on 12/14/2007 10:59:37 PM
I haven't heard a huge demand for 18 yr. old males in the business. This also goes for gay porn too. I guess that there just isn't a huge demand for them among the majority of porn fans, or at least a large chunk of viewers.
Well I heard on another Forum about an 18 year Old BM from Texas who is now shooting for Hush Hush Entertainment. He is easily the youngest possible Male performer to entre the Business from school. I forgot his name,but you will soon here about him any moment from now.
The most important details for a Hardcore Gonzo director, is can the guy keep wood, rock hard, know all of the positions, know how to open up, bring out the very best in a girl. Also, for the guy not to be a cry baby, complaining it is too cold or too hot, I do not like this position, these stairs or table do not work. Steve Holmes is the perfect example of a perfect male performer. There is nothing that man cannot do. There are about 20 guys in porn valley, American and European at all times who are perfect male performers. For features and magazines, sometimes the ideal look for a male performer, is no tattoos, no face hair, a look of youth, handsome and very clean looking. Julian use to be in high demand for Playboy and magazines, until he met Jill Kelly and got tons of tattoos. If a guy is 18 years old and can fuck like Steve Holmes, he would be booked 7 days a week at top pay, because he is new. The companies always like getting a new guy who can fuck real good for the camera. It changes things up a bit. Some of the top male talent who use to do the real crazy stuff, no longer do it, even though, that is what made half of the directors hire them. Steve Holmes, John Strong, Otto Bauer, Mark Wood, they will always keep it real and never change, just continue to improve. Cheers. Arizona
Regardless of age, I want to see more male talent altogether instead of the SAME GUYS over and over ad nauseam. If young guys can handle it, why not include them?
I don't want 18 year old talent necessarily. But anything between 18 and 40 is ok as long as the guy looks clean and fit, has a nice cock, a decent cumshot, is a good fucker and treats the girl right. I have no problem making exceptions for older guys, Peter North is maybe the best performer out there and Steve Holmes is great as well. But it puzzles me that there are so few young decent male performers out there. At least there are few that meets my criteria.. I'm sure there's a whole bunch of slobs and convicts, but there should be more decent guys. Looks like there's a lot of potential here and I wish someone would do something about it.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Dec 20 2007 : 2:05PM
"18 years old" and the word "talent" are two things which, when combined don't make any sense. Sorry. Try again.
I'm not sure what your saying. But there are lots of very talented 18 yr olds and younger that are very talented in every field acting. music, sports, math and science. So we do know "18 years old" and the word "talent" can be combined and does make sense. Saying NO 18 yr old male has the talent to do porn doesn't make any sense. Edited by - Shagdog on 12/20/2007 9:07:38 PM
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Breetai Deactivated User
154 Posts 7/07
Posted - Dec 20 2007 : 11:47PM
I agree. Probably the reason young people with talent are rare is because it takes time for their talents to become known or discovered. But the talent was always there.
Lesbian Students - review by Danielmayu33216
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 8:31PM
