I am sorry if this is a tired point but I tried the search function but could not find a thread on this topic. According to what I have read on the web and from reading our pal Christian's blog there is a huge stigma for crossover porn actors. I am still confused about this. Why is a the straight guy doing gay porn the coming of the anti-christ? Why does the stigma exists exactly? I would assume an AIM test is an AIM test and if someone is clean they are clean, therefore I do not understand this "Die tranny fucker, die" talk. Someone care to break it down for me?
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tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - May 12 2008 : 4:31PM
The argument is as follows: A passing AIM test result is valid for 1 month. It is therefore possible, in theory, for a performer to engage in "risky" activities the very day of their passing AIM test (in the worst case scenario) and acquire the HIV virus. This performer could then put others at risk for HIV by participating in scenes that he/she would otherwise be cleared for because of their recent (passing) AIM test. Adult performers generally accept this minor risk in the testing window as just the price of doing business. Some girls attempt to minimize their risk even further by avoiding males/females whom they feel engage in high risk non-work activities that increase their chances of catching HIV. They try to determine which talent are IV drug users OR those who they think engage in gay sex during their downtime. So the fear is that despite having a clean AIM test, these "crossover performers" still engage in homosexual sex in their private lives and thus increase the possibility of getting HIV BEFORE they can test at AIM again. The dilema is whether or not the crossover people truly are GAY, or were just "Gay for pay" as they say. Note: I am not passing judgment on Christian or any other crossover performers. I am just relaying the ideas of those who may be uneasy about working with them.
Thank you Tritone, a great answer....so even if someone did only a handful of scenes like five years ago..people might still consider them a risk? I guess, however it seems like the "NO list" (Christian talks about) seems mighty long and the stigma huge. Does that mean that no one will ever hire Kurt Lockwood again because of his recent movie? That does not seem possible in my opinion.
Christian is the only crossover star I know of who is so open about it, yet there are PLENTY of male stars who engage in homosexual activity outside of porn, and girls keep on working with them. I would be more inclined to trust someone who is honest about it than someone who isn't. The enemy known isn't as frightening as the enemy unknown (or something like that). The whole thing is stupid, but I don't expect rational thinking from most of these chicks. Yeah, they can choose to work with whomever they want and all that. Some girls won't work with guys who have fucked trannies, but they will work with a guy who fucked a girl who fucked a tranny the day before. Some girls won't do black guys anal because they are all too big, yet any white guy anal is fair game (I think I read that idiotic rationale somewhere on here). There will always be "no" lists, but thank goodness that no matter what or who someone says no to, there are plenty who will say yes.
I'd just like to say that my opinion on Christian has actually changed. I sent him an email a few days ago explaining the change. I didn't want to post about it on ADT because I did not want to bring the subject back up. But since someone else did, I'll explain what changed my mind. Basically, when Christian is working with a transsexual performer, condoms are being used plus the other performers are aim tested. When you combine this with the fact that unprotected anal sex has a relatively low transmission rate (1%), the chance of Christian contracting HIV is extremely low.
I think Christian avoided doing t/s scenes for a while, but in the last few months he did at least two t/s scenes. One for Evil Angel and one for a website (forgot the name of it, but it is mentioned in the other Christian thread). That work opened up a new can of worms. Edited by - redclayfh on 5/12/2008 8:08:34 PM
Whenever I read Christian's Blog I get bullshit at these girls. It just seems archaic. Human nature is to believe that Christian is lying? I guess they feel better safe than sorry but his recent post about Lisa Sparxxx makes me laugh my ass off she fucked like a zillion dues but AIM tested Christian might pose a risk? I won't throw Lisa under the bus though I am a big fan and I am sure she has a response. Edited by - phatbasey on 10/23/2008 2:32:05 PM
Hi there, I am not going to go into great depths of detail over this. Simply because there is not anything there. The shoot in question was a content shoot, for my site and another site. I was not being paid for the scene and Christian was. I assume he is upset, thinking I took money out of his pockets. I have the right to say no, the more someone pressures me to do something the more I will say NO. It does not matter if I have done a zillion guys. Out of those zillion guys I was paid to fuck on camera as well. :0) I have been in this business for years and I have never been told I "had" to do a scene. I was not aware of who I would be working with until after Christian was booked. All said and done was the scene was never shot. Scott canceled on me the day of. All this drama took place for not. Scott should have never put me in this position in the first place. I am sorry if Christian took this personal. I like Christian and I don't care what he does sexually. I just don't want any part of something I am unfamiliar with. This might be because I am 100% straight myself. To be honest I really don't have a good answer. Lisa Sparxxx - LisaSparxxx.com - Forum.LisaSparxxx.com
I know there are hundreds of subjects that are going to consistently recur on an adult messageboard (especially this one) but I honestly would have thought that all these years later people would be about sick and tired of hearing about and/or discussing Girl X not working with Christian and the girl having to come out and explain why because someone put it out there on their blog. At least most of the other recurring topics here can be fun and the given answers change over time. This one NEVER goes anywhere. [Link]
Here are my thoughts on this. I am a non-insider who has been a spectator of related internet brouhaha here and other places. 1. Tritone made one the points I was going to make quite well. 2. One of the other points I was going to make has already been made by Lisa when she said, "the more someone pressures me to do something the more I will say NO." I have observed this outside of porn (although I'm not pushy) so I'm not surprised that this is often the case inside the porn universe as well. This point seems to be more relevant in the specific instance that Lisa was describing. 3. Many people find the tranny/gay stuff to be "icky" for lack of a better term. I chose the term "icky" because it does not imply moral judgment, it just reflects an automatic gut reaction that people may have. They can not provide a thoughtful rationale; this is just how they react. I am not homophobic, but I admit that I find gay/tranny stuff "icky" whenever it happens to show up during my web surfing. Some females in porn may feel the same way to the extent of choosing to not work with individuals who have done these sorts of scenes or may have these tendencies in real life. In addition, some viewers may not find it easy to block out the "ickiness" of the male's prior activities. 4. Although these activities may not bother some females personally, they may not wish to work with known crossover performers because they fear that it might bother directors, viewers, or other performers with whom they may be scheduled to work. Even if it may only bother a select few, they may feel that it is better to avoid the possibility of bothering those few. This reminds me of a reason that has sometimes been provided by females for not performing in IR scenes. IR is another can of worms that has been opened ~768,547,125,639 times at ADT. This topic still has some catching up to do before it matches IR, he, he. 5. This remark is referring to Christian in particular. There is a lot of drama related to who will or won't work with Christian and this drama is magnified by his blog and the internet in general. Despite the conventional wisdom that chicks love drama, some of them may wish to avoid increasing the drama in their life. With most male performers, the decision to work with them or not is not equivalent to a vote of endorsement or rejection. The decision is pretty much a non-issue for most performers most of the time. The females might be attempting to minimize drama by choosing to not get involved in a scene with him. Of course, choosing not to work with him as an attempt to "stay out of this nonsense" will seem identical to choosing not to work with him for the other reasons mentioned in 1-4 above. The non-sexual interactions of people in porn can seem like high school or kindergarten to a non-industry participant of a porn board. (I won't claim that the rest of the world is more mature, though). I believe that Christian has written that he does not believe that his blog has been hurting his career. I might think differently, but for all I know he could be right. 6. Some performers will be able to encounter fewer challenges than others when working in the straight porn world. Peter North and Tom Byron are examples of this. They didn't/don't face the same level of challenge for a few reasons: a. They did relatively little work (to my knowledge) in the non-straight universe. b. They did all of their non-straight stuff very early in their career (I am guessing here again). c. Their non-straight stuff was not publicized to the general porn public or many industry people since they did it long before the modern era of the internet. (I'm not sure whether or not the internet existed, but in either case it was far less popular than it currently is). Their reputations as top performers in the straight world were very strong before many people knew about other stuff that they did. The gay/tranny stuff is basically a strange bit of trivia that Peter North denies and to which Tom Byron replies, "Yeah, so what, BFD." Ultimately, I can't speak for any particular female performer, but these are my general thoughts on this. I am surprised that I wrote as much as I did on this topic, since this drama is mildly entertaining at best and annoying and tiresome at worst. Edited by - Walter on 11/1/2008 2:39:39 PM
After a female performer has refused to work with Christian, calling him "pushy" is like saying Hitler "sort of" hated Jews. I don't know anyone in these situations well enough to genuinely dislike them and in most cases, I know them at least well enough to say that I do like them. So that comment doesn't come from a mean place. I know that Christian often feels "wronged" by the women who put him on their "no" lists and that in his eyes, he has a right to strike back when he's been "provoked" and that he's justified in taking it personal because these people have, more or less, taken money out of his pocket. But it's also a situation that's never going to change or go away so haven't we heard enough about it already? It's akin to me starting a blog to complain about the racism I encounter as a black man in this country. After a while, all the whining begins to wear on even your biggest fans, especially when, by one's own admission, he's going to be fine (financially anyway even if the ego takes a slight bruising) and there are still plenty of other women who don't have a problem working with him. In short, girls' stance on Christian may not necessarily be fair but guess what else? Life isn't fair. Trust me, I know. We all do. But you can make a conscious decision to either cry about the things that don't go your way or suck it up and move on. Christian made his bed and while at times he seems perfectly content to lie on a portion of it, his feathers get awfully ruffled when someone else comes along to shake out the sheets. He should be commended for being upfront about his past but he can't be upset that not everyone is as comfortable with that past as he is. Edited by - Crucifixio_Jones on 11/1/2008 3:11:15 PM
The blog which talks about Lisa Sparxxx http://cwians.typepad.com/christian_sings_the_blues/2008/10/fucking-dungeon.html and i don't disagree with anything anyone above has stated, with the exception of the use of Hitler as an analogy, i think that has terrible connotations. in regards to lisa sparxxx, she is trying to obfuscate the issue. again, lets look at the facts. 1. i was going to do a scene with lisa on thurs 2. i saw her tuesday night....and TOLD HER WE WERE WORKING TOGETHER 3. she said nothing 4. i get a call from the director on wed saying that she doesn't want to work with you so then i post my blog and lisa calls immediately....here is her reasoning for not doing the scene. Oh and by the way, my AIM Test, which is the 49th AIM test I have taken consecutively without a day untested, was exactly TWO DAYS OLD. 1. her "fans" don't want to see it? - seriously? out of all those gangbangs you did with random dudes off the street, she doesn't think any of those dudes have done the same things I have done? 2. she wasn't even supposed to do a boy girl scene that day. - which isn't a reason, because eventually we would have come to this same finish. but again, this is just another one in a long line of girls making decisions that aren't based on logic or reason. Which is frustrating and infuriating because she supposedly has a college education, yet can't hold a rational discourse about the subject. what CJ and others omit from the "life isn't fair" line of reasoning is this......I have the right to earn a living in this business, and I am going to protect my ability to do so at all costs. And that includes NOT allowing girls like Lisa Sparxxx to slander my name or try to associate me in a negative light.
You know there are always countless bullshit excuses given for doing or not doing things in porn, be it the IR issue, or the working with Christian issue, or swallowing, or anal, or what-the-fuck-ever else. I've come to accept that people will do things for no good reason. What I don't like, however, is when they do something for no good reason, and then make up something totally untrue to justify their actions. That's why, while not necessarily impressed with Lisa's actions in this instance, I was particularly impressed with her admission:If only people said that more often. Just admit it wasn't a well-thought-out decision, that it doesn't make a lot of sense, that you can't justify it. It doesn't make the decision any more right or wrong, of course, and it doesn't undo any damage that may have been caused, but it does avoid all the other, additional problems that usually come with making up bullshit excuses, and having to justify them in the future, etc. (In fact, all of this applies to life in general, not just porn.)
Christian, lets face it I know nothing about your blog. The only reason I called was because "D" called telling me you were upset. I should have never called, I am sorry I tried to smooth everything over. It won't happen again. I don't want to work with you, it was nothing personal but you have made it that way now. So get over it, deal with it!! I don't need a reason or use any logic. I was not being paid for the scene. It was for my site as a content trade so I said no. The shoot never took place as it was. So all of this would have never took place ANYWAY!! Slander your name?? WTF?! What name do you have? Who would I tell? Who gives a fuck, really? Honestly you need to get over yourself. Reality check things are not always about you Christian. Slander hahah yea I go to bed thinking how I am going to talk shit about Christian. haha Wow!! This would not have been public until you added it to your blog. This was between you and I. You made you public. Duh!! You attacked me by my education and who I shoot scenes with, calling me over weight, crossed eyed, house wife, blah, blah. You are the one who turned it personal. I have known you for years and you have never heard me say a negative thing about you or what you do. So me slandering you is fucking funny. You know it. I could go to your level and point out things about you. I won't simply because who cares. Call me what you want just remember I said no to you. That does not say much about you then now does it? If you actually read Christian's blog. It sounds like I did him a favor by saying NO. haha Those random guys off of the streets as you put it. This was many years ago mind you. I have not done a gangbang since '04 nothing like bringing up the long distance past to make a point, haha. Anyway your right I don't know what those guys have done. I don't see the point there. The fact of the matter is I know what you have done. Which is fine that is your choice. I just don't want any part of it. Plain and simple. I am not bi and I am not gay for pay. That is who I am and everyone knows that. What is hard for you to understand?? You told me we were working together on Tuesday I said nothing because I did not know what you were talking about. I did not know who I was working with until Wednesday when I got the call. This is when I said NO. I was the last person to know what was going on. Mind you I was shooting several different scenes that day. You even said I did not make any sense when I called, this I agree with because I did not know what was going on. I was confused, so yea I am human. I was told I was doing a BJ scene with Scott then he said he wanted me to do a b/g scene with someone else I said cool because I needed the content. So yes it was suppose to be a b/g scene as I understood it. It all boils down to Christian did not get his way and/or he needs traffic to his blog (Even by adding a shameless link to his blog). So now he has to *try and make someone look bad for saying "NO". Also instead of linking to my myspace page. You should link to my website. Join my affiliate program and make a few bucks while you are *trying to talk down to me. :0) (**By the way Christian that god-awful photo you have of me on your blog you don't have rights to use. I would ask of you to remove it. I have the rights to that movie for my site as it was a content trade between Brandon and I.) Edited by - lisasparxxx on 11/1/2008 10:50:13 PM
hahah 919?? More like 50 guys. The video is out there you can see for yourself it was boring as hell to be honest too. The video was only 7.5 hours not a 24 hour period. That being said I was also paid very well for that shoot. :0) As a matter of fact it was so boring, that was the last time I have done a gangbang. Edited by - lisasparxxx on 11/1/2008 10:51:48 PM
man there is nothing sweeter then when a subtle dig hits home and it STILL goes over their head. Of course I linked your myspace and not your site.....that's the whole point! Why send my readers to somewhere that makes you money? lol. as for the picture, I found it on the other message board, if you want to complain.....complain to them.
Why these girls feel that have to explain their reasons publicly for not wanting to fuck Christian, I have no idea. It just digs the hole deeper. You cancel a scene on him and he's going to be petulant. He's going to be childish. He's going to insult. Too bad he doesn't understand how immature it makes him look. Regardless of where you found the pic, Christian, it's on your page now and if the copyright holder does not grant you rights, it should come down.
the biggest lie I have heard in a long time. This is totally not true. What you fail to understand is that a different girl cancels a scene with me every week. Sometimes twice in a week. And for the past 3-4 years. You have no fucking idea what it feels like to constantly lose money every week because of this. But what no one ever talks about is that there are plenty of girls that have cancelled on me or refused to work with me, and I don't say 2 words about it. Eden Adams, Kristina Rose, Nicole Ray, London Keys, Emy Reyes, Madison Ivy, there are plenty of examples of girls who won't work with me that I don't talk about twice. But its the girls who I have already worked with, and the scene is good, my wood is good, i didn't take forever to pop, my AIM test was good, I didn't hurt them, I was friendly and accomodating, and sometimes I even give them rides home....those girls who then turn around to cancel scenes...that's what upsets me. Memphis Monroe, Shyla Stylez, Michelle B, Bree Olson, Puma Swede, Holly Wellin, Ahryan Astyn, there are many examples of those as well. And then there are girls who have been in the business long enough to have worked with all of the rest of the male performers who have done the exact same things I have (TJ Cummings...cough cough), and yet cancel scenes with me? Why because i won't lie or not talk about it? Or they are super hookers......that slays me as well. Lauren Vaughn, Britney Stevens, Penny Flame, Lisa Sparxxx, Ice LaFox, Julia Ann, Abby Rode, Jayden James, Shy Love, Jaelyn Fox, Asa Akira, Shawna Lenee, this list is long as well. Again, no one in the business is faced with my unique challenges on a weekly basis. You have no idea about how frustrating it is when this happens.......continuously, every week. Again, this situation is more of a big deal for me because I talk about it, and that I work so much and so I am continuously paired (or attempted to pair) with these types of girls. If I were a shitty performer, then it wouldn't be as much as an issue, because I wouldn't be booked so much.
^Christian, far more important than the first part of Savoy's post, which you addressed, was the second part, which you ignored. The part about taking down the pic. You need to do that.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Nov 2 2008 : 2:21PM
What is the source of this "right" you imagine you have? Do welders, hedge fund managers, and Elvis impersonators have a similar "right"? Do storekeepers have a "right" to customers? Do authors have a "right" to readers? Do lawyers have a "right" to clients? Do doctors have a "right" to patients? What you have is an opportunity to attempt to make a living in the porn business. Everyone on earth theoretically has the same opportunity. The fact that you've gotten further with it than 99.999999999% of the population has, doesn't turn it into a "right." The fact that you've previously worked with all those girls you list above and "the scene is good, my wood is good, i didn't take forever to pop, my AIM test was good, I didn't hurt them, I was friendly and accomodating, and sometimes I even give them rides home" doesn't create a "right." No one, inside or outside the business, has the slightest obligation to hire you, perform with you, recommend you, promote you, buy your movies, or otherwise aid you in any way in your pursuit of a living from porn. No one is required to have a good reason, a bad reason, or any reason at all, for declining to help you in any of those ways, or even for actively trying to thwart you. "Porn performers who are willing to fuck absolutely anything (as opposed to those who are only willing to fuck nearly, but not quite, anything)" do not constitute any legally protected class that I know about, so forget about a "discrimination" argument. The only "right" you have in relation to your real or imagined enemies in the business is the right to take them to court and try to win damages for tortious conduct and/or breach of contract. That is not anything like having a "right" to earn a living in any particular profession.
I know where you found it moron. Your not smart enough to find it yourself. I am not talking about the other board I am talking about your blog.You are a true meat head. Wow!! Here I thought you just looked like one. I knew what you were *trying to do. I also know you are still paying rent and need all the money you can get. It was a suggestion on how to make you money. However true to village idiot form you send me traffic through Myspace.com/lisasparxxx and you don't get the referral sales. haha.. Anyway thanks for the traffic regardless. I appreciate the hits. Thanks for the laughs christian, it was entertaining. Thanks for the traffic too. :0)
What ever makes you feel better about yourself. I hope you see my image when you sleep, because I am the one that turned you down and took money out of your pockets, haha. Edited by - lisasparxxx on 11/2/2008 5:06:42 PM
There might be other reasons for the OP's 'stigma'. HIV is hard as hell to catch for pure straight, non-intraveinuos (sp?) drug using people in the West, impossible to get as a pure lesbian, but easy to catch when gay, fucking people straight out of africa or needle using druggies. Though I'm sure AIM and all limmits the risk, I doubt it's a full 100%, and I can understand people willing to minimise risk. Not saying there might not be other reasons, as that might lower the chance of entertaining flame-wars on the board.
“What you fail to understand is that a different girl cancels a scene with me every week. Sometimes twice in a week.” ~ Christian I’d be really curious to know how many girls have Christian on their “No List” based on his personality and bashing blog alone. Not to mention word spreads fast in the industry, so if Christian bases some girl doesn’t you think they will tell their co workers? I have nothing against Christian; in fact I don’t even know him. At several requests from a friend, I tried to read his blog but it was so narcissistic I couldn’t do it. It is clear he likes to cause trouble to generate traffic for his site. And he seems to handle critics very poorly. When something or someone goes against him he whines and bitches more than my 60-year-old mom. (I hope mom’s not reading this, sorry momma.) Everyone knows porn girls cancel and are no shows ALL THE TIME. It’s just not you Christian. But you are the only one crying about it like a little kid who skinned their knee. I don’t see Manuel Ferrara, Randy Spears, or Michael Stefano etc bashing people because they cancel on them. It seems to be only you. If you don’t like losing the money try to be nice instead of burning bridges. If you don’t like losing money get another fucking job.
These women are treating the OP as if he were a common every day African American. They are interfering with his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession.... You can't go around treating a white man this way. Its OK to treat those AA's this way. just put them all on your "No" list.
I am really sorry I started a shit storm. This thread got way off subject. What happened between Lisa and Christian might have had nothing to do with his past. The question was and still is why is there a stigma in the first place? It it a 100% fear of disease or does it have to do more with reputation? I find that weird because Tina Tyler did plenty of bi films and she is still a legend (or does it only apply to men?)
if you think any girl EVER cancels on any of those three dudes, you are a complete fucking idiot. If you can find one girl who has, please let me know. And I am curious, how would I write a blog about my life and daily activities without sounding narcissistic to you? This year I have talked about failing on a scene, how other male performers are better than I am, how I am unable to do well in scenes. When I have made errors in judgment. Please enlighten me.
I can't say I truly understand what you are saying here, or what point you are making with the above post. You are saying all these girls cancel on you, but previously on this thread made a personal attack on ONLY Lisasparxxx. You made a whole post on her cancelling you and how it wasn't rational etc - she doesn't have to give a reason. That's it, end of story. So, I don't see why you are throwing shit at her.Maybe you can fill us in on why nobody cancels on them and why they cancel constantly on you. What are the specific reasons for all these girls to cancel on you - because you are a crossover performer? If so, and it bothers you that much, maybe STOP doing crossover porn! If it for a different reason find out from you agent why the reason is and address it. Don't just whine about it on a public forum trying to make out you are being persecuted. Edited by - joel on 11/6/2008 5:32:13 PM
Yea I did not think there was a problem since I did talk to Christian afterwords. I thought it was all behind us. Then I get a call telling me I should read what Christin was writing on his blog. I would not have made it public and just went on with our lives. It's to bad he turned it personal by attacking me. Oh well you know what they say though, "I been called worse by better". :0)
I fully understand this rationale. But I also know that a big part of the stigma is just plain old fashioned hate. There's a difference between politely saying "I'd rather not work with him" and some of the stuff you hear from some of these people. I wouldn't want to put myself at undue risk either. But I think I could be diplomatic about it. This whole industry seems to get very dramatic at times and that's always a harbinger of trouble. I don't think I'd blame anyone but would just say that people on both sides of the debate could stand to cool down a bit. Edited by - randomprecision on 11/10/2008 4:02:46 AM
I would agree. Look how many threads here regard anal sex (all be it with a woman), yet a lot of the same people "hate" gays. However, there are FAR more gay & bi people with HIV / AIDs than hetero people - that is just pure fact. So if you are crossover and fuck lots of bi/gays in your personal life I guess there is more risk to get something before you take the next test. Some gay performers who have HIV still work with other gay performers who also have HIV... strange but true. You can't fuckoff far enough if you get HIV from straight porn.
Now I must confess that I have never watched a gay (or even bi-male) porn, but I was under the impression that gay porn was all (or perhaps almost all) condom-only. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Because if I'm correct, then I could see it maybe being a different story to be a gay porn star, who may or may not have gay sex on the side, but perform with a condom, vs a straight porn star, who may or may not have gay sex on the side, but perform without a condom.
I have also never watched anything other than mainstream *straight* stuff. The comment regarding the HIV paired with other HIV I read in an article. However, I believe there is a catergory called "Bareback" in gay porn which is condom free.
