Will porn ever be taken seriously? (page 2)

Author	Post
Sybarite2006 Member 35 Posts 5/15	Posted - May 17 2015 : 5:25AM However if we are talking about porn getting respectability in mainstream cinema than the UK is doing fine. The guy who directed 9 Songs was one of Britain's most respected film directors - Winterbottom. Its like Scorcese directing a film with erections and cumshots in it! Also Intimacy was also a UK film. I think in that sense we're more like Europe than the USA. If you're talking of pure porn films without any pretence at artistic value than sure we don't have many porn studios. [Link]
Sybarite2006 Member 35 Posts 5/15	Posted - May 17 2015 : 5:27AM I think that because the UK is very multicultural and tolerant we could take the lead in niche porn featuring amateur British Indian and Pakistani girls of the 3rd generation etc. a bit like the French have with so-called beurette porn... [Link]
Sybarite2006 Member 35 Posts 5/15	Posted - May 17 2015 : 5:30AM There's a few British Asian girls who work(ed) in porn like Nadia Nyce, Destiny Deville, Ariana Mistry, Sahara Knite, Anjali Kara but that's a tiny number compared to the number of British Asians there or compared to how many French Arab girls are in beurette porn. Still, I see a real market there... [Link]
Vaporfinn Member 25 Posts 7/13	Posted - May 18 2015 : 11:42AM Mainstream is ready for porn, just not the porn we are used to seeing. You could have a successful mainstream movie that would play on Netflix, but the sex would have to be different than what we are have become used to. See Nymphomaniac on Netflix. It has insertion, cum shots and fucking, but the scenes are very brief, even shorter than they used to be in the days prior to video. One could still do this and make a profitable movie. Make a Comedy, Include tons of sex scenes, show brief insertion and cum shots but do not have the movie come to a screeching halt for the 15 to 40 minute sex scene. Show a flash or a few seconds of fucking, sucking and then a cum shot. Let people know they can download the full sex version and watch the full 15 to 40 minute sex scenes that were cut down in the theatrical version. The non porn viewers will think it’s sexy and erotic and the seasoned porn hounds can go see the full length versions on line for a fee. [Link]

Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - May 18 2015 : 1:17PM ^ Revenge of the Petites did this but I don't think this will be shown on Netflix. I think the key is that if you want porn to accepted as "art" in the mainstream, you have to represent sex as dark with terrible consequences, or at the very least accompanied by profound neurosis (see Shortbus). No fun and comedy allowed. Edited by - Gore Gore Girl on 5/18/2015 1:17:38 PM [Link]
Jacco All-Star Member "liable to deprave and corrupt" 2673 Posts 5/04	Posted - May 18 2015 : 2:25PM $DEITY forbid that a film would show people having sex and enjoying it! We can't have that, GGG, people might start to think that sex is not evil and dirty. Jacco [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - May 18 2015 : 2:31PM ^ Maybe they can include a very quick postscript explaining that everyone went to hell. [Link]
yourmomma Member 279 Posts 10/14	Posted - May 18 2015 : 2:36PM ever? maybe within the next 100 years? probably not. we are still too puritanical (in the US) We still shame normal women who "flaunt" their sexuality. Or even those who don't. The fact that it's an issue is also a problem. So yeah, probably not. [Link]
ScottMcGowan Your Choice "Skip the sex. I wanna see the stories." -Scott on Girlfriends Films 149 Posts 7/10	Posted - May 19 2015 : 7:01AM The porn business will only be taken seriously when the vast majority of people in the business take it seriously. I've worked on the VOD/Retail side of things for almost fifteen years. As I see it, for every example of a true professional (Steve Orenstein at Wicked Pictures or the gang at Adam & Eve, for instance), there are three others that just don't give a fuck and are hoping to score a quick and easy buck. Worse yet, they feel they're entitled to said quick and easy buck. There are a lot of great, ethical business people in porn who take the product they sell and their audience seriously. But the bad apples end up screwing it up for everyone by offering an awful/disposeable product at a hilariously premium price, general dishonesty/scams, or acting like an idiot in front of the media. Then there are those that have been so irresponsible and callous that they've actually caused physical harm. I love this business. I really do. But there are a ton of clowns out there that make it nigh impossible for the business to get any respect. [Link]
Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - May 19 2015 : 7:35PM I take it very seriously. I have written down every scene I've seen since 2010, given them grades and shit and stuffed every DVD-box summing the same note so that I know what's up and what's hot and shit I never seen should not be hard to detect. I even have me a calendar for every day from 1 to 31 and on the flipside of every number there's five old favorites named up so that they will not be gone from my radar. So if I dunno know what to watch I pick the number of the given day and I'll be on a roll, going straight to an old favorite I know can't be bad or maybe it can if I pick some close to wrong flick. When there are more than a thousand DVDs around strategies start to evolve, somewhere down the line you have to chose between that and chaos. And I know where whatever piece is put. It goes by director/studio/volumes of series for the most part, and themes too. And new stuff has a tendency to fly around and drift around With no place to call its own. But there's orgies there and Pure 18 there, Sineplex and Sinsational on its own spot, Hustler too, same with Mark Ashley, he fits nearby Darkko, they where like two in one, and soon e.g. Mark Wood and wife will need another shoebox or something. I'm pretty glad John Strong quit directing. He was about everywhere during the Red Light years and acts like a box of chocolate nowadays - not that sweet though. I dunno think I'd offer more space for him. But he shows up like every now and then anyway. With his back on a couch for the most part. [Link]
Sybarite2006 Member 35 Posts 5/15	Posted - May 25 2015 : 4:12AM I till think, in Europe at least, and Japan, that within another generation at max -- 15-25 years -- vanilla porn will become mainstream. By that I mean that it will become commonplace for mainstream films and even TV shows to show actual sex during lovemaking scenes, even cumshots, perhaps even a pee scene occasionally -- if the story warrants it. the difference between porn and mainstream will become that a porn film will have no plot and be made only for masturbation purposes whereas as mainstream's main purpose will be to tell a story, not wank to! Heck i'm probably being well too cautious. More like 5-10 years. Each year in Europe mainstream films are being released by well known directors which blur the boundary. What's the difference between Diet of Sex, a mainstream spanish film that came out i think last year, and a porn movie with a storyline (like one of the Private series or an Ovidie film?) Or even Nymphomaniac I and II, director's cut, or Sexual Chronicles of a French Family? I found that way more erotic than a lot of porn films - and yes its uncut version -- not the Netflix one -- had real explicit sex including double penetration, ejaculation, FMF, etc. with the bonus the girls in it --and the guys - were fresh and young and natural. (Unlike most porn stars, at least in the US porn who have way too much plastic surgery -- enhanced boobs are a major turn off for me.) So we're getting there. If you live in a Bible Belt state I guess it'll be a long time for you but the rest of the world moves on -- or you could move to California! For me it is a commercial no brainer. Sex sells, everyone knows that. So what would you watch? sex produced relatively cheaply with hand held cameras with gorgeous girls (like LP) doing anal gapes and farts or the same scene in high definition 70mm as part of a wider story telling arc? Once virtual reality takes off -- and porn will be its biggest market --- the two worlds' will converge much sooner than people think. Just this month Gaspar Noe has debuted a 3D porn film ...at the Cannes Film Festival called Love. It is not a porn film but a mainstream film! (Yet it is v. pornographic) This is the poster: http://twitter.com/MARAVALV/status/591500648337711106/photo/1 [Link]
Sybarite2006 Member 35 Posts 5/15	Posted - May 25 2015 : 4:31AM Sometimes coincidences like this are amazing! An interview with the director in the London Guardian newspaper: http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/may/21/gaspar-noe-on-3d-sex-movie-love-at-cannes-i-would-let-12-year-olds-see-it Here's an excerpt I think pertinent to our discussion: In a central scene the actors engage in three-way sex. Before the act Murphy asks Omi how old she is. “I’m 17 … soon”, she says. “I fucking love Europe,” says Murphy. “This movie could never have been done in America,” said Noé. “It’s easier to show scenes of sensuality in European cinema. The people are more open-minded. Americans, when it comes to film distribution, can be very square.” Click to expand What do you think? It's releasing in France on July 12th and it will be interesting to see what certificate it gets. Probably 15 or 12. [Link]
blackonidragon7 Member 318 Posts 2/10	Posted - May 25 2015 : 12:39PM ScottMcGowan wrote: The porn business will only be taken seriously when the vast majority of people in the business take it seriously. I've worked on the VOD/Retail side of things for almost fifteen years. As I see it, for every example of a true professional (Steve Orenstein at Wicked Pictures or the gang at Adam & Eve, for instance), there are three others that just don't give a fuck and are hoping to score a quick and easy buck. Worse yet, they feel they're entitled to said quick and easy buck. There are a lot of great, ethical business people in porn who take the product they sell and their audience seriously. But the bad apples end up screwing it up for everyone by offering an awful/disposeable product at a hilariously premium price, general dishonesty/scams, or acting like an idiot in front of the media. Then there are those that have been so irresponsible and callous that they've actually caused physical harm. I love this business. I really do. But there are a ton of clowns out there that make it nigh impossible for the business to get any respect. Click to expand You're exactly right. Many people get into porn to earn money fast. Nothing wrong with that. I think the question is "why isn't porn as popular or taken as seriously as mainstream entertainment?" In truth, it's not supposed to. The way we take porn seriously is buy paying for it. This modern day most opt to download porn for free rather than paying for it. Remember, porn is like the darkside of entertainment. People appreciate it only if know else knows that they watch it. [Link]
Helmut Member 240 Posts 3/15	Posted - May 25 2015 : 2:46PM It was taken very seriously in the 70s. Every major city had downtown porn theaters with "Deepthroat" up in lights. Every major newspaper had graphic porn theater listings . Seka toured the country appearing live in downtown theaters. Problem is, 95% of the customers are dudes who just wanna get off. Please keep the dialogue to a minimum and I don't wanna see dudeface. [Link]

N00dlesDaddy Senior Member Layla...got me on my knees... 1793 Posts 7/13	Posted - May 25 2015 : 3:37PM Sybarite2006 wrote: I till think, in Europe at least, and Japan, that within another generation at max -- 15-25 years -- vanilla porn will become mainstream. By that I mean that it will become commonplace for mainstream films and even TV shows to show actual sex during lovemaking scenes, even cumshots, perhaps even a pee scene occasionally -- if the story warrants it. the difference between porn and mainstream will become that a porn film will have no plot and be made only for masturbation purposes whereas as mainstream's main purpose will be to tell a story, not wank to! Click to expand Why is it necessary to show sexual acts explicitly in mainstream films? Surely the level it's at now - which is mostly implied - more than suffices for the purposes of a conventional movie? To be honest, I've never really 'got' the inclusion of sex scenes in mainstream films and novels. It's mere titillation. I've never seen - or read - one that could be definitively said to further or enhance the plot (if anyone knows of one feel free to point it out). That's one of the things I find appealing about porn - it's honest about what it is. There's just no reason for mainstream flicks to get more explicit IMO. Edited by - N00dlesDaddy on 5/25/2015 3:38:58 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 25 2015 : 10:15PM ^I don't need the sex in films to be NC-17 explicit, though I have no problem when it is and sometimes prefer it that way. The Lover, Bully, Lust Caution, Nymphomaniac, and some other such films are favorites of mine. A change I definitely would like to see take place though is an end to scenes with people having sex under the sheets. It's just too unrealistic that with all that heat being generated no one pulls the sheet away. Those scenes have irritated me since I was a teenager. I'd apply all of that to television as well. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:02AM ^ Agreed. Also, when people hop out of bed post-coitus with underwear on. There are a lot of aspects of mainstream film sex that ring untrue and absurd because of the hesitancy to show nudity and/or graphic depictions of sex. I have seen many mainstream films where sex is a natural part of the narrative. At least as natural as an explosion, a back flip, or any of the other somewhat frivolous or cinematic elements of, well, cinema. I don't see why everything in a film needs to advance plot and character, anyway. That sounds a little boring and robotic. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:05AM While I'm on the topic, I also partially blame the refusal to show nudity/graphic sex for the unrealistic depictions of the sex act itself (i.e. Penetrative and both parties orgasm simultaneously and in magical fashion). [Link]
N00dlesDaddy Senior Member Layla...got me on my knees... 1793 Posts 7/13	Posted - May 29 2015 : 2:22AM The sex in both mainstream films/television and porn could be said to be unrealistic, just in different ways. When I finally see a depiction where, after 10 minutes of fumbling, a guy climbs on top of his partner, flounders away for a further 2 minutes - if he's feeling particularly studly that day - then rolls off and starts snoring, then they'll have nailed it. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 29 2015 : 11:52PM ^I don't think I've ever seen an entire ten minutes of fumbling, but I have seen a handful of sex scenes in movies in which there is some fumbling, then brief floundering that ends in the guy having an early climax, usually to his embarrassment. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - May 30 2015 : 12:20PM ^^ Yikes, sounds like you've had some shitty sex! [Link]
kuvulrixfr245 Member 18 Posts 5/15	Posted - May 30 2015 : 7:27PM When OP says take it seriously, i interpret that as meaning having high regard or respect for the porn industry. Well, there are justifiable reasons why the public doesn't. Porn doesn't have the regulation or workers rights of other industries. And because of the low entry barrier to be a performer, producer, talent agent or whatever; there are enough bad eggs mixed in with the good to create enough headlines and tarnish the whole show in the minds of the public. It's a shame because it probably wards off characters who would be a great benefit to the industry in both its reputation and direction. But this problem is a product of porn being the liberal, rebel kid in the corner. For as familiar as pornographic movies are to the public, porn remains a kind of insular impenetrable world that they have to guess at via cliche and stereotype and what they see on chat shows. Because when it comes to how the engine works under the hood, porn presents only familiar PR and keeps the rest of that to itself. Because it knows it's best to. And many people from outside don't shine a light on it. For instance, how much is the American porn industry worth per year. Who knows? It's always just a made up figure with no hard referenced info to back it up. And that's how porn people have clearly been happy for things to be. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 30 2015 : 8:31PM One of porn's greatest strengths is also one of its biggest weaknesses. Porn takes on all comers in terms of customers as well as people within the industry. There is generally no fetish too weird that the industry can't cater to in some way. There is no sin to great that the industry can't find a job for you doing something. That's great because they generally aren't judging people, and giving a lot of folks a 2nd 3rd, last chance. That also means you attract a segment of society that a lot of people outside of the industry will judge. Who different studios cater to, and what their hiring practices are, vary greatly of course but as long as "mainstream" folks can point to a performer that is a complete trainwreck, or a studio that is all too willing to look the other way at hard drug use, a significant number of people are going to look down on the industry. The industry is probably unfairly judged on its customers too. Do most people consider midget porn to be weird? Yeah, but I don't think the industry invented it out of the blue. Customers wanted to see midget porn so the industry found some midgets and made it happen. It's not the industry's fault that some people like midget porn, but when the "judgments" come down people are usually condemning the porn itself, and the makers of the porn, but nobody seems to care about the weirdo that wanted the midget porn in the first place. (I don't really care if you like midget porn or not, I'm just using it as an example, If that's what get's your rocks off, more power to ya) Not to mention the only time porn gets any mainstream press is when something bad happens. You never hear of anything positive unless it's actually promoted from within the industry. But When Max Hardcore goes to prison that might make the news. When Joe Whatsisname makes some quasi-rapey videos of drunk girls showing their boobs and gets taken to court, that might show up on your facebook feed. When Judd Hirsch or Larry Flyntt buy stolen sex tapes from celebrities, that'll make all of the "Entertainment Tonight" clones. To a degree I think the industry could change that somewhat if they wanted to but I'm under the impression they'd rather operate as "outsiders" and deal with less scrutiny. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - May 31 2015 : 11:24AM Porn is taken seriously by the right people. Porn won't ever be totally respected by the "mainstream". That might not be a bad thing really. If porn actually went "mainstream" the product would be watered down considerably...like most things that are mainstream. If porn became accepted and common with consumers it would be the very safe, vanilla type porn that doesn't offend anyone that would be the biggest sellers. The people doing the harder stuff would stop making the harder stuff once saw how much more money the people making the vanilla stuff was making. [Link]

ScottMcGowan Your Choice "Skip the sex. I wanna see the stories." -Scott on Girlfriends Films 149 Posts 7/10	Posted - Jun 9 2015 : 6:53AM blackonidragon7 wrote: ScottMcGowan wrote: The porn business will only be taken seriously when the vast majority of people in the business take it seriously. I've worked on the VOD/Retail side of things for almost fifteen years. As I see it, for every example of a true professional (Steve Orenstein at Wicked Pictures or the gang at Adam & Eve, for instance), there are three others that just don't give a fuck and are hoping to score a quick and easy buck. Worse yet, they feel they're entitled to said quick and easy buck. There are a lot of great, ethical business people in porn who take the product they sell and their audience seriously. But the bad apples end up screwing it up for everyone by offering an awful/disposeable product at a hilariously premium price, general dishonesty/scams, or acting like an idiot in front of the media. Then there are those that have been so irresponsible and callous that they've actually caused physical harm. I love this business. I really do. But there are a ton of clowns out there that make it nigh impossible for the business to get any respect. Click to expand You're exactly right. Many people get into porn to earn money fast. Nothing wrong with that. I think the question is "why isn't porn as popular or taken as seriously as mainstream entertainment?" In truth, it's not supposed to. The way we take porn seriously is buy paying for it. This modern day most opt to download porn for free rather than paying for it. Remember, porn is like the darkside of entertainment. People appreciate it only if know else knows that they watch it. Click to expand As far as performers getting in for a quick buck (especially young people drowning in educational debt or the like), that doesn't bother me so much. We can cut them some slack. Though I do particularly appreciate the performers (both male and female) who work hard to hone their craft and make porn a career. But the people who produce and distribute, they don't get a free pass from me. No business is easy. If you don't take your work seriously, you will fail. Take what happened in the mid-late 00's as an example. The market flooded with poor-to-mediocre content (both on hard media and on the web) created and distributed by people who (A) didn't care about their product or the audience they were there to serve, (B) were hoplessly incompetent, (C) did things that ultimately caused harm to the entire industry, or (D) some combination of all those. Those companies either went out of business (a serious chunk) or got their shit together. But there's still work to be done to make porn a legitimate industry, and that must be done internally. [Link]