That's interesting to find out since whenever I browse the WCP stuff I've never seen any white guys there. Sounds to me like the distributors have a bit too much industry clout if they can mandate something like that to a company.
Equally interesting is that as you've said, the "black" imprints of "white" or "mainstream" companies have a new label name and logo to differentiate them from their parent brands. Is this because the consumers of Black or IR stuff are seen as not being able to figure out that ZT can make good porn regardless of the pigmentation of their performers' skin, or is it to offer a specific brand aimed at that target market?
I've gotten a few "Excessive Entertainment" discs lately, and they've all seem to be "Latina" themed. Excessive is an imprint of VCA which is now pwned by Hustler. Is it a "Latin" imprint? I've no idea, but it may be so. Yet, it's not going to replace looking at the cast and director when choosing a disc to buy.
Yet, the "white" companies are forced to spin off niche labels, too.
It seems that what you are saying is that all this broohaha is really the fault of distributors who want labels to be theme-specific: black, white, IR, anal, etc. In which case, we've got seven-odd pages of people attacking the wrong target.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - Sep 4 2006 : 10:09AM
Personal preferences and performer's decisions aside, the distrubutors have always had the last say about what gets to market. You can film anything you like, but if they won't stock it, you're shit out of luck. I think all these new ethnic imprints are just an easy way for stores to categorize their product with recognizable names. The real downside to this, for me, is that I prefer more homogenous productions that are being made less and less because everything has to fit into a niche or genre.
That's a real interesting point. I seem to remember the famous Sean Michaels scene with Ashlyn Gere back in the mid-1990s that met the cutting room floor because it was deemed "unmarketable".
I think in most modern business models catagorizing a product is par for the course. The big money beast has finally swallowed the porn industry, and as a result porn is becoming more commercial by the day. I imagine that in 25 or 30 years there will be such a thing as truly mainstream pornography. Around that same time virtual reality technology will probably make porn as we know it obsolete...
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - Sep 4 2006 : 11:17AM
No, I meant homogenized, as in mixed together. Titles that allow for more varied combinations and sex acts instead of working the same theme over and over again. Everything today seems to be so niche specific.
Wouldn't the end of racism hurt a black performers job-opportunities?
I don't think that without the white American male's fascination of seeing black men having sex with "their" women, there would be a lot of work for all these black performers.
After all, the vast majority of the porn-buyers are white. And most male consumers prefer male-performers they can relate with.
You just contradicted yourself. If there is no more racism, white men wouldn't care what color the guy was one way or the other. Thus, Black performers would get plenty of work.
Erm, maybe so, but not necessarily. If the porn talent pool reflected the population at large there would still be more white than black performers. At any rate, I don't know how you prove X copies of some IR title sold because is was IR versus because it had certain performers or certain sex acts. Thus, we don't really know the skew that IR puts on the numbers and it's all speculation and perception.
This is EXACTLY why I made a conscious descion before I ever stepped on my first set not to market myself in a way that would pigeon hole me, or put me in a box, so to speak on everything right down to my stage name.I knew from the beginning that I wanted to be afforded opportunities to work for every company, and give myself the option to pick, and choose whom I work for once I became established. Regardless of whether Black on Black, or IR is "Chic this week" I didn't want to be DEPENDENT on market trends, or fads to make a living. Universal appeal to the broadest possible demographic was my aim from the outset, and it has paid off handsomely.
See that's the thing. I find I buy quite a bit of porn that would be considered "IR" but I'm not buying it because I have an IR fetish.
I like white women, black women, latin women, asian women. I like specific female performers. If a title has, say Shy Love, Alexis Amore and Jen Jolee in it, I'm not buying it because they're latin women - I'm buying it because they are all hot and happen to be in the same title.
Likewise, I like to buy a lot of Lex's titles. Not because he's a black dude, but because he's a good performer and director and always seems to have some damned hot women in his films.
In a perfect porn world, I'd love to see others with careers similar to yours. Black, white, or whatever ethnicity may apply. Unfortunately their are too many ignorant portrayals and assumptions on all sides to really allow it. Too many things are seen and then portrayed as either black or white, which makes it damn near impossible for either side to really crossover.
See I'm the exact same way. In the end, it's all fucking to me. Everything starts with the women. If I don't find the women hot or at least interesting, I'm simply not gonna watch it. Maybe we are the exception to the rule, but I don't think we really are. Which is what frustrates me so much. I can and pretty much do watch a little bit of everything. Lex, Sean, and Justin seem to prefer the kind of women that turn me on, so they tend to get a lot of my money. But I could say the same for Mike John, Jules Jordan, and Joey Silvera. Last time I looked, the last 3 guys I mentioned weren't black. It's all good to me!
??? Hello!?? Two of the most popular and prolific male porn stars today, Julian Ruiz and Philip Troy "T.T. Boy" Rivera are both Hispanic! They are just billed as white. Why? because white consumers are not offended by them. For them, their race is not relavant. I would say that the producers' prejudices are more relavant than the ones they project upon the "consumenrs" though. IR sells. Period.
As has been stated on this board many many times, the issue is and always will be Black men and white women. Not Latino men and Asian women, or white men and Arab women. The controversy will always center around BM/WF. Any deviation from that point only serves to muddle the issue.
monique alexander said yesterday during a vividlive show that she is shooting a scene with mr marcus tomorrow in a big vivid movie directed by paul thomas, and she's also about to shoot her first anal scene with marcos leon.
Looks like she is going in to hardcore with Mr. Marcus's hardcore into her. Mr. Marcus should watch Rocco Loves Monique for some pointers. Rocco was with the same company when they did the scene togethere.
If the same scene was shoot under Evil Angel; she would be screaming the entire scene in pain. It was hot for the time because it was forbidden fruit Monique was; but if Rocco had the directing role in it too; it would be boiling with fire come out!
Paul Thomas is a fine director and has won some AVNs but he is under the control of Vivid to tone down the rough stuff and make it elegant and upscale - their trademark. Also their trademark is condoms.
I think I've enjoyed almost every film I've ever seen under the Evil Empire, so I'd disagree with that statement. Maybe I'm missing something?
Vivid recently went to a condoms-optional policy, so I'm guessing most of their films with start going without them. If caught on the right day, Paul Thomas has been known to let performers really have at it. I could see the pressure to really tone it down though. Problem is, is that most performers really don't seem to really want to fuck the way Vivid would like them too. Gonna be interesting to see what direction they ultimately go in and how they do.
I think I misstate it or you read it incorrectly as to my message; but I like Evil Angel way of doing videos and don't care for Vivid videos. I am on your side; I like Evil Empire!
Mod: Harry, guys, please tone down the excessive quoting of others' posts and just quote the relevent bit you're replying to.
monique has posted a message on her yahoo group saying she's shooting a huge film this week directed by paul thomas called cry wolf, and she's doing her first anal scene and her first interracial scene in the movie, she shoots her anal scene with marcos leon wednesday 27th of this month and a scene with mr marcus 2nd of october.i can't wait to see this movie her first anal and interracial scene.
2 scenes in 5 days. Wow, maybe things are changing over at Vivid. Enough time to recover, who'd have thoough.
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matricks Deactivated User
australia 136 Posts 5/06
Posted - Sep 25 2006 : 10:51AM
LET me say that a person's taste in music has got fuckall to do with their sexual preference. Eminem loves hip-hip music but he dislikes black girls,he even wrote a song about it. Taylor Rain,Cindy Crawford love hip-hop but never entertained the idea of doing a black dude. Lemmy from the Heavy Metal band MOTORHEAD,absolutely hates hip-hop/rnb so much,but he loves black girls. I've seen some white girls at heavy metal gigs who hate rap music but actually don't mind dating black dudes. So a person's taste in music can never be seen as an Indication of sexual preference.
You need to do a little research on Taylor Rain. She's a closet Chocolate lover and has been caught in the act TWICE so far.
As I have said, the white chick who "dosen't like Black guys" is a mythological creature. Like the Unicorn. White men without power believe in the myth to spare themselves the anguish of feeling inadequate, white men with power intimidate white women into perpetuating it for profit.
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matricks Deactivated User
australia 136 Posts 5/06
Posted - Sep 26 2006 : 10:27AM
Those are very harsh words mate. I always respect a person's personal choices,and I will never go after anyone who is a dodger.Its her pussym and let her choose. But I have no problems in bashing Companies that are blatantly racist and like to play some lame politics to exploit the race issue. I'm sure who know who I'm talking about.
1) The chick of any colour who doesn't like guy of any colour is real, and she's out there. The US is a big place, and the world is even bigger. You'll find people who like anything you can name, as well as people who dislike anything you can name. You still won't find your unicorn, though.
No point beating your chest and stroking your ego, because it's all bluff and bluster.
2) Like I said, the world outside the US is a big place. The US has it's history, and the US today and the attitudes found in it are of course the result of that history. The rest of the world, though, have their own histories and their own attitudes that aren't the same as yours.
I can only speak from my life experiences. You are right about that. But I am not beating my chest. I happen to think this entire issue is bogus. Black men are no more sexually potent than white men. That sterotype is just as lame as the unicorn white women.
It is a physiological fact that NONE of the primary physical attractors of human being involve race. It is our divisive society that creates the myths about racial superiority, sexuality, and deragatory class status. All of these things are artificial, and maintained by those who have ultirior motives.
Black men perpetuate the idea that they are thugs and sexual dynamos for the purpose of self promotion. White women play the "Birth of a Nation" role of terrified damsel to make more money from white men. White men, as I have said, are either profiteering from the controversy or capitulation to their own insecurities. But these are generalizations, and obviously not everyone in those catagories is guilty. There are many dignified Brotha's, thoughtful and secure white men, and self-respecting white women.
Everyone's guilty on this one...
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matricks Deactivated User
australia 136 Posts 5/06
Posted - Sep 26 2006 : 11:54PM
I totally agree with you mate. Thats why several girls from Europe or outside the US have no problems in doing IR. The ones who are dodgers are mostly local US girls who grew up knowing America's history and how black males are percieved. Thats why many say its degrading for them to do a black dude but have no problems in being humiliated by Max Hardcore. This explains why girls like Jill Kelly,Tabitha Stevens etc would rather work with Ron ''OMG''Jeremy than work with a young chiseld black dude. At the same time,other chicks with a different mindset would have no problems in chosing the black dude anyday. Peace mate!
I think you've crystalized my feelings perfectly. Just getting tired of seeing certain companies get away with it, without ever getting "called" on it. Some cards have to be "pulled" sometimes.
[/quote] I can only speak from my life experiences. You are right about that. But I am not beating my chest. I happen to think this entire issue is bogus. Black men are no more sexually potent than white men. That sterotype is just as lame as the unicorn white women. [/quote]
True, but yet that stereotype seems to exist everywhere, and not just in porn. I see and hear it everyday on some level. Maybe people need it to look at themselves in the mirror or simply to just get-off. I dunno, but sex shouldn't be that complicated.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Sep 27 2006 : 2:36AM
And guess who first invented that stereotype:
"It is still true, alas, that to be an American negro is to be a kind of walking phallic symbol: which means that one pays in one's own personality, for the sexual insecurity of others.... it is absolutely certain that white men, who invented the n*gger's big black prick, are still at the mercy of this nightmare, are still, for the most part, doomed in one way or another, to attempt to make this prick their own."
That may be where it started, but I think there is "now" plenty of blame to go around. From where I'm sitting, I see plenty of brotha's exerting some or lots of control, yet I keep mostly seeing the same stuff and the same ole song and dance. Just once I'd like to see some of these cats leave their comfort zone and do something I don't expect.
One year later, and here is an observation. Have you guys seen the one sheet, or the box cover? Vivid placed a one sheet ad in AVN in one issue, and in the following issue (last month) it was prominently displayed on the back cover. Clearly, they are interested in maximizing units moved with that kind of investment. Interesting thing that made me chuckle.. , in the copy, it's Savanna with "Two Black Guys", not say...Brian Pumper, and Tyler Knight. Both of us are AVN winning, known quantities (or we wouldn't have even been cast), so I feel that's a missed opportunity to capitalize on whatever (however minimal or not) market value our name recognition may lend, as we are not just some random "Black Guys" that hopped into the back of a pick up truck at Home Depot for porn day labor. I can say at least for myself, I have a substantial, and quantifiable following. I am confident Brian does as well. I am not complaining, nor is this ego based. I could actually care less either way, for it has zero effect on my career, bank account, and/or life. It was an IMMENSELY fun scene, easily one of my best scenes of the year (If only my gonzo D.P.s went as well 1/2 the time), it was great sex, and my check cleared. :-) IMHO, a simple change in copy... say... "Two Black Guys, Brian & Tyler" could have an impact, however negligible, on the bottom line. But what do I know? I'm male talent, and in the estimation of many on this board, a shaved monkey could do my job, lol. Well, that was my yearly post quota...back to gonzo purgatory I go.
Sydnee Steele, Savanna Samson or None. 275 Posts 12/05
Posted - Jun 19 2007 : 4:04PM
This is a very legit point and there are tons of other black men from all walks of life who know exactly how you feel. In fact, I think that just the title of one of the classic books about being Black in America: 'Invisible Man,' by Ralph Ellison, says it all.
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T0201 Deactivated User
167 Posts 11/06
Posted - Jun 19 2007 : 4:20PM
Knowing that Vivid is Dodger-central I'm not surprised by this. Maybe in time they'll change though. Edited by - hardware on 6/19/2007 9:28:01 PM
Tyler Knight how about doing a new Blackmailed film with you and Brian Pumper (for example) with TERI WEIGEL. For Vivid or any other company that will make it. Teri needs to do a film with you. Give it some thought, please!
In my opinion the next edition of the Blackmaled series should contain all interracial scenes. It should be structured so that it resembles an entire interracial version of Jules Jordan’s Darkside series and/or the Hillary Scott’s Anal Princess Diaries series. The star of the next one should seen in each scene getting involved in different ir scenarios, either as a very interested observer, or (and mostly) as an active participant. The sex acts that occur in each scene in the next edition should range from one-on-ones to full out gangbangs. While I would prefer the star mostly does she doesn’t have to be seen having sex with a Black man(en) in each scene. She can also be seen in one or two scenes having sex with a Black woman(en), preferably in some sort of scenario that features her as an anal loving sub to a Black female performer with a rather large strap-on. The main focus of each scenario to each scene doesn’t have to be the interracial factor, meaning not every scenario has to be a White woman making her fantasy of picking up and having sex with a Black man come true. They could instead go along the lines of a White woman making her fantasy of picking up and having sex with a total stranger come true, .it’s just that the total stranger so happens to be Black. If it is possible I think Vivid should get a director and writer that have a knack for doing really great gonzo DVDs. alexl467
My Year-One Report Card on Vivid's "...Blackmaled" series is: 1. Twelve months later, and only one more IR sexvid released, says to me that Vivid is not really committed to serving the IR customer. I believe the Monique Alexander/Mr Marcus "Blackmaled" sexvid has been completed for well over a year, but still not released. 2. "Savanna's Been Blackmaled" is not a major step forward, over the "Janine" edition. There is only the one IR scene between Savanna, Tyler Knight & Brian Pumper in the video. The other scenes (Eva Angelina & Tommy Gunn, and ChristianXXX with Georgia Peach) didn't really work for me. So, this is really a one scene movie. 3. On the plus side, the 3-way IR scene that closes out the video was very good. Savanna worked well with Tyler & Brian, and this very long scene contained a number of positions, including anals with each guy, and a long dp. Bottom line: I give it a "B-" and hope the Monique IR video will be a lot better...containing more than one scene between M(onique) & M(arcus), and maybe a little kissing between the stars. As for Tyler's comment, above, about him and Brian being listed on the boxcover as "Two Black Guys" and being reduced to a symbolic stand-in for "all" black men, I'm not really surprised. [By the way, both guys on the boxcover are Tyler.] While I can understand Tyler wanting "credit" for being part of Savanna's first IR video, it is the Female Talent that sells straight porn. And, Savanna Samson is not only a long-term Porn Star and two-time AVN Award Winner, but she has been the "management fav" of the contract girls at Vivid for several years. So giving her all the limelight is par for the course. Finally, although Vivid was the first straight porn company to sign a male performer to a contract (the late Jon Dough), Vivid rarely gives much limelight to the male performer. So, I guess the good news for Tyler & Brian is that they are not being treated differently.
Sydnee Steele, Savanna Samson or None. 275 Posts 12/05
Posted - Jun 20 2007 : 8:18AM
But nevertheless the add read "Savanna Samson with Two Black Guys," not Savanna with 'Two Guys.' So no matter how you cut it Tyler and Brian are treated differently because they are African-American. Edited by - hardware on 6/20/2007 9:21:55 AM
Again, seeing my name in the copy for ego satisfacion wasn't my point, and I chuckled when I saw it. Anyone in the business that knows me knows Im a recluse, and don't care about such things.I am 100% aware that it isnt about me, or Brian. I just thought it was a missed opportunity to market it for what it is...two black guys, AND rope in our fan base as well. Like , "Two Black guys, Brian and Tyler" (lol) could have accomplished both. I get asked all the time when I am going to work with particular girls, and especially "top shelf" girls, and a scene with ANY "Black guy" ,and a Vivid contract girl doesnt happen every day. For sure, it would have been a cost effective (free) way to attract a few more fans.
I agree with Tyler. Tyler, Pumper, and MR MArcus are my favorite black male performers. I might pick up a title that advertised Actress X with Tyler but Not Actress X with some random male talent like Welsey Pipes which I did not care for. I just joined this board and was reading this thread. As a black male, I love IR, but I also watch mainly European anal themes video from Christophe Clark as well. Keep up the great work everybody. And thanks for letting me be a member of this board.
