Hookup Hotshot: Episode 464: Iris Leon - review by Captain Jack| Author | Post |
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Bob  All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 |  Posted - May 17 2009 : 11:07PMSince Windows 7 Release Candidate is completely free until sometime in February 2010, I decided to re-partition my external drive today, install it in the new partition, and sample it just for kicks. Unlike a lot of people, I happen to like Windows Vista. I like it better than Windows XP. But given that good Vista drivers haven't been written for some of my peripheral devices, I thought that Windows 7 -- because it has an embedded XP mode (i.e., not just in virtual-PC environment) -- would be a meaningful improvement. Although I realize that it's still in a state of development, Windows 7 appears to suck. This impression stems mostly from the fact that Windows 7 seems less customizable than Vista. An example: I like a clean desktop, so, in addition to using the quick-launch bar to start applications, I also use it for shortcuts to Windows Explorer, Control Panel, Recycle Bin, and a variety of folders. However, in Windows 7, it seems I cannot pin these particular shortcuts to my quick-launch bar or drag and drop them there either. A locked task bar is not the problem -- it's unlocked already. Anyway, I thought I'd kvetch. The quality of Windows 7 doesn't affect really affect me, as I can wipe the extra partition and repartition at any time -- but it is somewhat of a disappointment. --------------- Edited to change "April 2010" to "February 2010". Edited by - bob on May 19 2009 Edited by - redish on Oct 2 2009  [Link] |
| Proxy Member 38 Posts 5/09 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 12:18AM (see what I am getting at?) I do also blame MS for packaging the "built for Vista" logo on systems that were NOT even remotely developed with Vista in mind or at least with not the version they came with. An example is saying "Built For Vista" on a system running 64-Bit vista and really the drivers and system runs best with 32-Bit. You will be able to pin it to the QL and you may be doing something wrong now...as I can but I am running a server release dedicated so who knows.  [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 12:39AM [Link] |
| ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 1:15AM <-- OSX[Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 1:43AM Some reasons I deal with Windows despite the downsides: -- I enjoy building and tinkering with PC's and Mac's don't afford me that option. -- Steve Jobs and the closed systems that he perpetuates bother me even more than Bill Gates does. -- A cousin of mine works for Microsoft, so I can get retail copies of Windows and Office for next to nothing. [Link] |
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| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 2:07AM I just read it. As it turns out, only maybe 2 of these features would be the least bit helpful to me -- and even then, barely. I'm pretty sure I won't bother migrating even if the obvious bugs get worked out. I like Vista. [Link] |
| jrv Senior Member 1266 Posts 2/03 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 4:38AM Microsoft *does* have standing armies of programmers and this is why they don't "get it" on the need to minimize churn. It may be different now, but up until XP the senior guys could always get as many programmers as they wanted to work on an idea - there was no real budget constraint per se, and those guys had no clue how it worked in the real world.Of course, that begs the question of why you need two sets of drivers in the first place. A hacker will tell you that you get 5% better performance or such that way. Competent management (and I include senior technical staff here) would realize that by choosing an OS architecture that doesn't require two drivers you wind up with a higher quality driver that is better tested, and that whatever the sales guys say in their up-sell pitch, a few percent of CPU speed doesn't matter much any more. OSX Leopard used this approach of one driver. I've heard Snow Leopard does not, which is a mistake for Apple: if companies don't budget enough for a pair of quality Windows drivers they surely won't for a pair of OSX drivers. A big question for Windows 7 will be "How Windows compatible is it?". Vista had serious Windows compatibility problems and I'm wondering if Windows 7 will be better or worse - will Windows software run on Windows 7? The fact that it needs an "XP box" suggests it isn't very Windows compatible at all. [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 1:32PM You go from Windows 7 sucks, to Windows 7 sucks because it's less customizable, to Windows 7 sucks because I can't figure out how to make it do this one particular thing that I want it to do. Come on. [Link] |
| Proxy Member 38 Posts 5/09 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 3:16PM 32 bit and 64 bit and addresses to specific hardware performance. With 32 bit I can't address memory past what 4GB. That in itself is a limitation...now, if you are suggesting that if 64 bit is the "answer" for all of this, maybe...but interestingly Aplle is now only catching on...but then again...Apple has acquiesced and is now a PC with the Apple OS. The compatibility is really an issue of 32 bit apps running in a compatibility mode for the 64 bit systems. Vista 32 I never had a problem, getting 64 bit to run drivers in compatibility mode big problem. Actually having the drivers written by any major mfg, to work well with 64 bit...a real crap shoot. Here is an example of the stupidity of hardware mfg's http://www.insidetech.com/news/articles/1655-creative-says-custom-drivers-are-stealing [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 3:33PM I started a topic on ADT. Did I suggest that my post consituted a serious review? Of course not. I installed the OS yesterday and spent the afternoon playing with it. Right off the bat, I found nothing that improved my Vista experience and several things that worsened it. Then I read some source material about the "new benefits" and found almost nothing that I actually regarded as beneficial. Of course, I'll keep track of the development of the new OS until the end of February 2010 (at which point the system will supposedly reboot automatically every two hours in order to encourage you to shit or get off the pot with regard to a paid-for license). Anyway, is it really so terrible of me to have started a topic just for the pure joy of kvetching? After all, it's not as if I said that Windows 7 was even gayer than double-anal. [Link] |
| K Smitten Kitten Cloud 9 530 Posts 2/06 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 3:35PM Come to think of it, unless Microsoft have provided Windows 7 virus scanners with special access to this VM instance, you might need to install a second scanner in the XP machine. Otherwise, the higher level of integration could prove an unfortunate extra avenue of attack. Disclaimer: I haven't actually looked into this. It just struck me as a possible issue. Check what Microsoft has to say. BTW - and not that l'm trying to convert you, cold, wet birds cavorting on your hardware isn't for everyone - if your tinkering is more about getting a deeper understanding of the inner workings of computers in general, rather than learning how to work around the eccentricities of a given version of Windows, and you have the time and patience to persevere, a less … beginner-friendly Linux distribution (e.g. Slackware, which, while not for the computer novice, is as rock-solid as they come) could be worth some of your tinker-time.  Microsoft --  -- Windows userWindows application developer -- [o\|] [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 3:47PM I suppose, though, that the technically correct characterization of XP mode is unimportant to me as long as level of integration is high. It if works much better than Windows VM, great; if not, not great. I don't mind installing a second virus scanner, because I buy multipacks for my wife and kids' use anyway. I've been thinking about playing with Linux. Thanks for the recommendation of Slackware, K. Sounds like it's just about my speed. -------------- Edited by - bob on 5/18/2009 5:51:14 PM [Link] |
| jrv Senior Member 1266 Posts 2/03 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 6:55PM [Link] |
| jrv Senior Member 1266 Posts 2/03 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 7:44PM Even at nVidia I'm surprised eyebrows weren't raised whenever 3-4 programmers were req'd for something that wasn't a Windows driver or a silicon project.Sure you can - Apple supports 64-bit apps & 16GB RAM on a Mac Pro today with a 32-bit kernel & drivers. You just have to make sure to call copyin/copyout instead of directly dereferencing points to userland, plus a few other "minor details" such as physaddr_t being wider than void *, etc. [Link] |
| skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02 | Posted - May 18 2009 : 7:49PM Bob ... I HATE tinkering with computers. But I forgot you're a hobbyist. WEHT to Double Anal? Is it the Gary Coleman of sex acts? [Link] |
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| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 19 2009 : 1:58AM [Link] |
| K Smitten Kitten Cloud 9 530 Posts 2/06 | Posted - May 19 2009 : 9:22AM But I wasn't kidding when I said it wasn't beginner-friendly. You'll get no fluffy, namby-pamby, hand-holding GUI tools to help you configure the thing.  But you may just learn much more about how IP networks, TV cards (if you've got one) and the like work.Not necessarily.Scanners are not able to detect viruses in a Virtual PC setting. At least not the ones I deliberately tested it with some months ago. So attackers would just need to get it into to the VM undetected. Perhaps an https session, if you ran a browser instance in the VM. Of course, if XP mode, unlike other VMs, does not have its own virtual hard drive (again, I haven't actually looked into it), the problem might not be so likely to occur. OTOH, XP mode should, AFAIK, get direct access to USB devices, so infections could spread through mass storage devices, iPods, cameras, etc. Both going into the XP mode VM and back the other way by infecting other USB storage devices. [Link] |
| Zoid Senior Member Boobies and Anal 2004 Posts 5/04 | Posted - May 19 2009 : 3:29PM [Link] |
| NewRomancer Deactivated User under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08 | Posted - May 19 2009 : 6:29PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 19 2009 : 7:57PM [Link] |
| Bornyo Deactivated Member 803 Posts 12/04 | Posted - May 19 2009 : 9:03PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 19 2009 : 10:27PM You're drinking? Good idea. What's your poison? [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 19 2009 : 10:33PM Here's to you.  [Link] |
| Bornyo Deactivated Member 803 Posts 12/04 | Posted - May 20 2009 : 1:22AM I can't help you with this computer question but I admire your ambition. Have I ever mentioned my pornographer friend from NY who also sails, travels the world, hunts wild quail, is an expert on whiskey and knows everything about everything? He has a website and I bet if you submit your reservations there about W7 he could clear them up for you post-haste. [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 20 2009 : 3:07AM I didn't realize that the two of you had gotten close. I think I'll have some more whiskey. [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 20 2009 : 3:09AM [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - May 20 2009 : 7:39AM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 20 2009 : 7:20PM |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 20 2009 : 7:41PM |
| JohnW Senior Member 1351 Posts 6/08 | Posted - May 24 2009 : 7:32PM The taskbar is also a bit annoying, you only have icons for whatever programs you are running now, no text. And there are icons there for programs you are NOT running so you can start them from there. I guess they wanted to merge the taskbar and QL (which makes NO sense whatsoever to me productivity-wise or usability-wise). Other than that, it seems to be working quite fine. Edited by - JohnW on 5/24/2009 7:33:27 PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 24 2009 : 9:25PM [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 25 2009 : 8:42PM |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - May 26 2009 : 2:03AM Thanks, Harri. Much obliged! [Link] |
| Butchie Member 11 Posts 7/09 | Posted - Jul 2 2009 : 5:38PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 1:41PM Win 7's XP Mode And VirtualBox: When You Need Windows XP [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 1:44PM [Link] |
| Redish Poetic Moderator Long and Cursive road to the Ivory Pagoda in the province of Loraine 4076 Posts 12/03 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 3:15PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 3:32PM Left to my own devices, I probably would have kept the original title, "Windows 7: Just Like Vista Only Worse", as is -- but that's only because I'm a contrary motherfucker. The new title is definitely better, more suited to the direction the thread is going in, less misleading for the interested reader. :) [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 5:57PM [Link] |
| Redish Poetic Moderator Long and Cursive road to the Ivory Pagoda in the province of Loraine 4076 Posts 12/03 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 5:59PM [Link] |
| Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 6:41PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 8:13PM That ad was incredibly offensive. [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 9:09PM Seriously, why is it "incredibly offensive?" Why is it even mildly offensive? Why is it any more offensive than using cute kids to sell Oscar Meyer bologna, Life cereal, or any other product? [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 9:58PM How the fuck should I know? I'm a reactive mofo. [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 2 2009 : 10:05PM Offensive. Maybe even incredibly so. But maybe not. Truth be told, I'm often guilty of hyperbole. [Link] |
| Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Oct 3 2009 : 8:47PM Yes, yes, I understand the Bell curve, so let's not go there. [Link] |
| Bornyo Deactivated Member 803 Posts 12/04 | Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 8:48PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 2:33AM My wife's computer runs XP. She's happy with it; she hasn't wanted me to migrate her to Vista. Each to their own. [Link] |
| jackthetreacleeater Senior Member Shame on you! 2003 Posts 10/06 | Posted - Oct 26 2009 : 4:01PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 26 2009 : 4:37PM Benchmarking Windows 7: Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger? [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Oct 27 2009 : 8:26PM Windows 7 Upgrade Makes Some PCs Unusable [Link] |
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