Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 22 2010 : 6:22PM
This is amazing to me. People steal your content, when you try and do something about it, they cyber attack you. I am sorry but this is cyber terrorism. They feel they have a right to steal from you, then get pissed when you go after them. I know i just said the same thing twice, that's how stunned I am.
You obviously have no idea how depraved and vindictive 4chan really is. And it will never stop, due to its inherent anonymous nature of the users. There's a reason the "organization" that started there is called Annonymous. ----Dread----
This reminds me of the beginning of Texas. American slaveowners who moved to Mexican land were pissed because slavery was illegal in Mexico, so they fought the government for the right to own slaves.
You can never stop something like 4chan. It is just human nature enhanced by the internet. There's no fix for it and prosecution is virtually impossible. Its just a fact of life that everyone has to deal with. The same goes for piracy in general. Its not that I don't have sympathy for content providers (I really do) but the world has changed for better and worse and we're not going back.
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Oct 23 2010 : 8:21PM
This is the inevitable result of trying to bully potential customers and it's not really surprising.
^ Bully potential customers? By trying to protect their content their bullying people? That's pretty weird logic. I'd want to protect my content too if people were infringing on my copyright.
I think that suing people for illegally downloading porn is the wrong approach. We're heading towards a different business model for intellectual property related content. 4chan is just the extreme part of this movement. Nowadays, It is very difficult to find someone that know how to use a computer and never downloaded anything illegally (movies, series, music, porn...). We're not all becoming thieves, the society is changing and we yet have to find a way to adapt. My dream? All of porn, best quality, reasonable pricing, and greater turnover for the porn industry. I do think Internet has enabled us to do so, although it's all a little bit confusing right now.
This battle will be interesting to watch as it plays out over time.
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Oct 25 2010 : 5:25AM
Protect their content by suing potential customers? Perhaps they could contact the RIAA and MPAA to congratulate them on their success in ending filesharing by utilizing such tactics. Oh that's right they haven't succeeded. Obviously it's an exercise in futility and they'll figure it out sooner or later and adjust their behavior accordingly.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 26 2010 : 3:54PM
I love this, potential customers.... how are they potential customers if they are stealing your content? What is it that you think would suddenly entice them to pay for something they get for free? That is a load of horse shit. You are either a customer or a thief. Do you walk into a video store and steal dvds with the possibility that one day you will walk in and get a membership and start paying? Do you go to a restaurant and order a meal, then run out without paying, if the food is good enough, you just might go back and start paying for your food? The short answer is no. Sorry to be so harsh, but if you are downloading or viewing any dvds, not just porn, from a free site that is supplying someone elses copy written material, you are stealing, if you are stealing you are a thief, if you are a thief, you are hurting the economy and the people who have worked hard to produce the material.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 26 2010 : 4:00PM
I have never downloaded any music, movies, or anything for free, ever. If i did I know I am a thief. I pay for my music on itunes or buy a cd. I rent my movies from blockbuster or buy the dvd. Very simple. I wanted a copy of Salton Sea with Val Kilmer, Blockbuster has a waiting list for it, so I bought it online. Could I have looked it up and downloaded it for free, sure i could have. That would make me a thief. People have to stop justifying their bad behavior. There is no excuse for taking something that isn't yours.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 26 2010 : 4:08PM
What does that mean. adjust their behavior accordingly? Roll over and give up. Just invest millions of dollars to make content and give it away for free? That is not a great business plan. The reason we make movies is because we just love to make people happy, we don't need you to pay, we just need you to enjoy our content, because maybe some day, you'll become a customer! We may be out of business by then, but until that time, just enjoy. I can't tell you the amount of checks we receive on a daily basis from people stealing our content, you know the honor system. If you like us just send us a little something to help us along. Ok, I will reveal this insider info for you, we get about zero checks every day. last year we received a total of nothing.
I do think most people, even those who pirate are in the camp of "it's stealing, but...". And that's not "but it's ok", it is "but the current models of selling and purchasing intellectual property are rapidly becoming obsolete and irrelevant". The fact that it is so easy to get hold of (from illegal sources) makes people question the prices. It is very simple, supply and demand (and very predictable, rational thinking). Back when type printing was invented, the scribes lost their source of income. And we all know the story of the luddites. Of course the scribes didn't put any less work into their craft, but what they crafted could simply not compete. Was it "unfair"? Possibly, but holding back progress would not be a good solution. What has happened with music, movies, and porn lately is similar (I know, not _exactly_ the same, but hear me out because it _is_ relevant). Distribution cost has gone from being significant to being close to zero (in practise insignificant). Production cost may not have changed as much (although even good hd cams are incredibly cheap and major things have happened there too). The industry will suffer. When selling the physical product and with people willing to buy it, the prices did (do) not just cover the production and printing but there was a slim (in most cases, but major in a a few) profit. I don't know if it will be worse for porn than the other industries (but there certainly is a privacy issue which makes people prefer getting it online). I think the profit will be even less in the future. Fewer people will work in porn, but more will be produced since it is so easy to produce and distribute. Those who make quality stuff that people want will always be rewarded, but they can't count on earning as much as before. Looking at the big picture I have already accepted it... but that doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for the people in the midst of this huge realignment. This stuff is always messy.
@JohnW: I don't agree that the porn industry should prepare for a loss of income. Your "scribes" aren't the actors, directors and producers, they are the sex shop owners, who have very little chance to make money with the younger generations. The porn industry is facing a challenge, but I am confident there will be a way that will be beneficial both to the professionals and the customers. @Hollywood woody: piracy is a crime. But it is not stealing, it's counterfeiting, and this is very important. When one downloads something illegally, one doesn't deprive anyone of anything. There are many people out there who have downloaded collections worth thousands of dollars, do you really think all of them would have spent that much money if internet didn't exist? Two ideas: One: if the average porn customer spends 20$ a month for porn. Do you think he could take it up to 30 or 40$ a month if he had access to a gigantic porn library? As johnW pointed out, the cost of distribution have dropped somewhere around zero, so why not offer a lot more porn for a little more money? Two: many of the illegal porn platforms blossomed around communities. People want to share, recommend, comment... I haven't seen a lot of that in the websites I subscribed to. Many people subscribe to a web site for a month, download everything they can, then move on to another website. Imagine if you could join a community where you have access to all the porn you can dream of and share it with the other members. I think a whole lot of people wouldn't want to give up on that after a month. One example I find very interesting is the European legal music streaming platform Spotify. For 10$ a month, you have immediate access to 10 million tracks, you can share your playlists with other users, play your music on pc and smartphone, and everything stays sync'd. I've been a customer for about a year now, and I don't plan on giving it up anytime soon. It can be perfected, but If I had to subscribe to four, five or six different services to get the music I want to listen to, it's likely I started looking for alternatives. Once again I hope we will find a way to make it better for all of us.
It should prepare. Sales will pick up again but only after everyone moves to a business model that customers will want to use. Piracy will still be there, like it always has. But since distributing (and to some extent producing) is so much easier, porn will end up being cheaper. There will be less income. Companies will employ fewer people. Agencies might go away. Actors will (probably) be paid less, but will to a larger extent be able to operate on their own and might actually get paid closer to what they are worth as performers.
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TheDreamPolice Deactivated User
170 Posts 2/10
Posted - Oct 26 2010 : 5:45PM
Don't go after the downloaders, go after the uploaders. Go after file hosters not torrent sites Go after hosting forums You have to form some sorta agreement with your competition to work together on this. You have to hire people to scroll the net all day looking for your crap and sending out warnings to uploaders, and Google.... You can get to stop your stuff from coming up on seaches (ever notice the dmca warning at the bottom of the page when you google something). Pay college kids to do this. Woody your sites are being hacked at rate that is greater than the dod. the best way to stop that? when a customer signs up for your site. You chose the password and he has to login with his email address...... these are tips. believe it or not woody, in the year to two years, you and all porn companies will have to hire porn nerds to keep shit off the web....the first company to do this wins.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 26 2010 : 6:21PM
With all due respect, you are so far off base it is ridiculous. Producing shitty porn is easy, producing projects like Malice In LaLaLand, or Batman or The Condemned, are anything but easy or cheap. Actors will never operate on their own, unless they have the experience, which comes from working with a company. You say actors will probably get paid less but will make more money in the same sentence. HUH????????????????????
Yep and that is what I expect to happen. Quality stuff will probably be more rare. At least high budget quality stuff. There is plenty low budget quality porn out there as well but it still requires that people have the spare time and basic resources to put their effort into making it. I don't mean to be rude but given the reality of it, this is unavoidable and in some sense "necessary" in order to bring about a new model. It breaks my heart to see how this affects some of the people I know are putting their heart into what they are doing. But it is the forces of the free market at work adjusting to changing conditions and it will eventually bring about a model that works (but which obviously pays less). And yes, the transition will probably be a quite depressing period content wise. Edited by - JohnW on 10/26/2010 6:24:59 PM
What I'm saying is that it is easier and cheaper than ever for actors to run their own sites. And if the output of the big companies decreases, actors will have to market themselves more aggressively and possibly sell single scenes, either by themselves or through a middle man or a site that offers it from an online catalogue. This is part guesswork, but given some of teh developments regarding music that was mentioned above, there will probably be several creative attempts in the world of porn as well. Actors who might never have been booked for whatever reason before now have the possibility of getting their stuff out there very cheaply compared to cost of running a website only few years ago. The overall revenue/turnover might go down but more people can participate in the marketplace. Yes, the big productions will suffer and it is just sad but unavoidable. I know how it takes a lot of effort and I appreciate it, but at the same time I'm trying to be realistic and I just can't see how its heading in any other direction..
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Oct 26 2010 : 7:06PM
Other Content industries do this and the downloaders respond by producing trusted networks that are largely resistant to such tactics.Either with you or against you? I think I've heard that expression before. But if that's the road the industry wishes to go down and bully potential customers by suing them into compliance then it's going to be an indefinite "War on Piracy" and it can be lumped in with the "War on Drugs" as a total failure only that it'll take decades to figure it out. As for advice to deal with the issue, it's been given in this thread already. Give people more value for their money (i.e., a $10 or $20 fee to download every movie in a film studio's catalog). Or try the itunes models where people pay a reasonable fee per scene or movie. Edited by - Solar4 on 10/26/2010 7:12:38 PM
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 26 2010 : 7:28PM
It will head in other directions, the big studios will fight free with free. They will eventually open up sites with there content that relies on advertisers to pay it's bills. That is one way. Why go to an illegal site and wait for a 3 hour download when you can just go to the studios free site. This will generate traffic, which they can sell, and upsells from the content they provide.
@hollywood woody: no, the difference between stealing and counterfeiting is huge, and I think this is mainly why you see no future without going after the downloaders. The marginal cost of a digital copy is insignificant. In other words, distribution costs have significantly dropped. I am not talking about DVDs here, but digital video files and images. I think there's a growing preference towards video files, just as people use their ipods filled with mp3 rather than carrying around their good ol' CD player. The new apple TV, google TV are following that trend. I think you can't adapt to a new situation with old tactics. I hope someone will come up with a good idea and make sense of all this. Google appeared from nowhere and managed to build an unrivaled business model. Facebook has followed that same trend too. iTunes accounts for a majority of mp3 sales. It's about time someone comes up with a great idea for porn.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 26 2010 : 7:38PM
WHy would a studio allow you to download their entire library for $20. They should just close their doors and hang themselves. Again, there is no such thing as a potential customer who has been dipping his fingers in your pie for free. You know it and I know it. I think bullying is a very bad term for protecting your property. So if someone comes in your house and starts stealing your property, and you call the police or shoot him in the head, are you a bully? I think not. Be careful for what you wish for. I like the itunes model. I doubt you would.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 26 2010 : 7:46PM
See above. Fighting free with free. Your counterfeit money, handbags, dvds, etc. Look it up, you are replicating something that has been made to sell for less money. You cannot counterfeit something that is an original. The files that are downloaded or uploaded are just as good as the originals, because it come from a digital file. If you are going to illegal sites and downloading copy written material for free without the permission, you are stealing. Call it whatever you want, justify it anyway you want, but it is stealing.
@Hollywood woody: I am not justifying anything. I am not in favor of piracy, I am barely saying that you're missing the point, and thus barking up the wrong tree. I am desperate about making my point about the difference between stealing and counterfeiting, so I'll just leave it at it. You can't win a fight in the dark. So until you light up the room and take a good look at the situation here, there is very little chance you make significant progress. Other than that, good luck following the 2000's RIAA way of fighting piracy, it's proven "very" effective.
Way to much to read They best way to get this done is sending a warning to the host of the sited saying I will sue you for 20 million if you do not shut down so & so site & delete all there files within 2 weeks. Going after the person or persons who run these sites does nothing after host is better because they will not host any more adult sites
Woody put it best, if people no longer pay for new content, then there will be no more new content. Want to see a 1st time anal with a starlet? Pay for the scene! Soon it will be just old catalog scenes from years ago. Vivid will not shell out the money to make such big budget movies as Malice in LaLaland or DMJ: Resurrection. The only new content will be from amateurs, and not everybody (myself included) is interested in this type of content. I prefer bigger productions, name girls, and women that are attractive throughout the whole movie, not just one scene where the girl is hot. Fleshdrive has an interesting concept, although I don't know if it will work. I currently retail them for $39.95, but they are awful expensive. They have 20+ pre-loaded scenes per Fleshdrive. I only have the Elegant Angel ones, and they come genre specific (ie Massive Asses, It's a Mommy Thing, Flower's Squirt Shower, etc). I've sold a handful of them, and I don't notice them taking away from my DVD sales. Then again, I've had them for a week. Time will tell. As of right now, I don't know how cost effective it would be for a studio like Vivid to put their content on one of these. They are known for their features, not for gonzo, and putting a full feature movie or 3 would only result in 12-15 scenes instead of the 20+ advertised with other studios.
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 7:33AM
Why would it destroy a company to only charge $20 to download its entire catalog? Brazzers charges $25 and they're one of the most successful adult production companies on the net. Also I do know of such a thing as potential customers, we both know that teenagers and college students tend to be one of the segments of the population that download for free the most and when they grow up they start buying content. Now are they going to reward the behavior of a particular studio that tries to sue them into compliance as they grow up or are they going to only buy from the studio(s) that didn't? And we're talking about "intellectual property" woody, it's not a tangible good as physical property is so the old flawed analogy used in discussions such as this of taking someone's personal property isn't applicable nor is the example of running out on a bill in a restaurant. So a better analogy would be, if someone has a bike and a neighbor asks if they can copy it because they can't afford one of their own, now many people would say fine because they still have their bike and the other person would get one they couldn't otherwise afford. Granted the bike manufacturer would be upset at a lost potential sale, but the bike wasn't stole from them nor was the person whose bike was copied. Edited by - Solar4 on 10/27/2010 7:47:22 AM
Vivid is only distributing LaLa Land in the US. It was funded by a UK outfit, as far as I know. But the problem is no one can even afford 20k for a gonzo these days because their return is even less than that.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 12:30PM
So here is the reality, Hustler is full steam ahead with their lawsuits, ups the number of defendants to over 7000, and their site was interrupted for all of 2 hours. Hustler keeps going I say good for LFP. If LFP gets the ip addresses it is asking for, this will set a whole new outlook on stealing content. If they make these people pay even $20 each, which is low, that is a cool $140,000. That is exactly what they lost in revenue. I am sure they will go after much more for each of these defendants.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 12:49PM
Could somebody please tell this guy about Brazzers. I don't have the energy. We used to have a saying long ago, everyday is someones 18th birthday today, welcome new customer! That has been over for a while. The kids today, God I feel old, are not potential new customers because they have been stealing stuff since they were 14 off the internet. Once you piss in the pool, the pool has been pissed in. I don't need to be rewarded by someone who has been stealing my content for years, just pay for what you take. They aren't going to put me back in the black by buying one dvd for $24.95. Since when is it ok for you to buy something and start to manufacture it for the neighborhood. When I used to buy record albums, and the cassette player came along, my friends would say, could you make me a copy of Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, I'd say,"fuck no, you have to buy one of your own." Why should i have to pay for something, and you get it free?
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 12:51PM
it was made by Miss Lucifer out of Belgium. The budget for a gonzo film, besides the majors, is in the toilet. Thus the reason for a glut of gonzo, that is just beginning to be all the same, same girls, same content.
My past is a foreign country. Most things are different there, including word usage. 503 Posts 12/06
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 2:10PM
Some progress appears to being made. Recently a New York judge ordered the shutting down of LimeWire a P2P file sharing site. http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/27/technology/limewire_court/
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 6:29PM
Also there is a new company that has asked the court to grant them access to the ip addresses of the people doing the illegal downloading from the torrent and tube sites. They finally did get a judgment granted and are now sending a bill for illegal downloads on behalf of the content owner. If you don't pay, you get turned over to collection, and they report you to all three credit houses. Funny thing is, people are paying. The first notice is $140.00. Second notice is $650.00, depending on how many illegal downloads you have. If people think they are anonymous, they are very, very wrong. They could have bought the dvd for anywhere between $14.95 and $29.95, now it can cost them 10 times that. Oh, BTW, when you pay, you get a copy of the dvd you downloaded.
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 7:04PM
I know about Brazzer's tube activity, but the fact remains that you can easily make money if you charge only around $20 for your entire video catalog. Also there is the itunes approach of allowing individual scenes to be downloaded for a reasonable fee. As for the lawsuit approach, there was a study done recently that found that the RIAA/MPAA paid more in legal fees than they ever made up in their racket of suing downloaders and getting them to pay them. So the adult industry can go down that road and have a 30 year "War on Downloading," but somehow I don't think it'll be terribly effective.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 7:19PM
Brazzers can sell their library for $20 because they use everyone elses for free. I call that stealing. There are several approaches that can be used. I like the fact that we can now get your ip address and send you a bill. That way you can argue all you want about what kind of property it is until you are blue in the face, but the law will be upheld in favor of the content owner. You pay, or you ruin your credit. Simple. You also speak of the advancing technology, how if you can figure out a way around paying for something you would normally have to pay for, it is justified. There is technology out there right now that allows you to take someones credit card info, and charge up a storm on their account. Why isn't everyone doing that? Because it is illegal. There is technology now where you can hack into an ATM machine and get money out. The reason people aren't doing it is because they would go to jail. There will be no war on downloading, we will find a way to see who is downloading and just send them a bill. That day is here. Just ask LFP.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 7:31PM
I say it's hilarious that they're trying to sue people for downloading a movie which is itself a ripoff (not a a parody, in any meaningful sense; just a ripoff) of a real movie.
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Oct 27 2010 : 7:50PM
I think you're putting a bit too much faith in technology. The War on Drugs for example despite billions of dollars being spent on high technology and hundreds of thousands of US citizens being jailed unnecessarily has been an utter failure. And that war involves the movement of thousands of people and tons of narcotics across national boundaries and state lines. Downloading by contrast is significantly more difficult to deal with as it merely involves bits of data traveling along fiber optic lines. Furthermore, as past experience has taught us whatever technology is devised to stop downloading will ultimately be thwarted primarily because many of the people content providers are at war with have don't have jobs, are more computer literate than those they would hire to fight them and have all the time in the world to work on finding new ways around content protection technology. Edited by - Solar4 on 10/27/2010 7:54:02 PM
Hookup Hotshot: Episode 464: Iris Leon - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Oct 22 2010 : 6:22PM
