The problem would be what is their upbringing and background (religion pounds a lot into you), what was hammered into them (or us) by family and friends, how do they perceive themselves, how self confident are they? - etc. - etc..

Those factors will determine how much it is in the closet, and how much they let out.

DenverDon

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Many men think that women have this 'sluttish' side in their natures whilst accepting that most of them keep it locked in the closet for lots of very good reasons!

Edited by - John Pype on 2/11/2004 2:15:25 PM

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DenverDon

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I'm a rather "sluttish" guy, so I'm not sure it's just girls who you're talking about.

"there's a little bit of whore inside of every little girl" - Johnny Thunders

ned

edited for spelling by me

Edited by - conquistador on 2/12/2004 2:57:00 AM

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Well, every woman? Used? Gangbanged by strangers? C'mon...that kind of language was bound to get you in trouble, JP. I actually thought the carnage here would be worse, but all in all it's not as bad as I would've thought.

Just musing here; some women understand the distinction between making love and channeling their inner slut to enjoy a good roll in the hay. Sometimes I turn to Mrs. 60, my eyes sparkling like a little kid at Christmas and say "Let's make love!", and she says "Nah, I don't want to make love; let's FUCK!"

And we giggle and wrestle and joke and tickle and have fun and FUCK.

So, if you're lucky, yes. Even luckier, she only shows that side of herself to YOU. I'm lucky like that. We go to great lengths to make sure each other has no reason to be unfaithful or unsatisfied. For the past 13 years, it's worked wonderfully.

It's possible to be lovingly, worshipfully, mutually used as a sex object by someone you trust and you know will still respect you in the morning. My wife'll be the first to tell you I'm a sweet, gentle, unselfish lover, and she can tell you without the slightest hesitation that she knows beyond the shadow of a doubt that I respect her totally (I worship this woman, frankly), but I can channel my inner Iron once in a while, AT HER REQUEST, and she abso-freakin-lutely LOVES it.

Example: I got a great blowjob last night. A gonzo-style, hair grabbing, facefucking extravaganza. And she didn't have to be told how to do the things she does, I don't "direct" her or make demands as to what to do or say, she doesn't even watch porn -- it all manifests through her channeling her inner slut. She enjoys it , but more than that, she knows how much I enjoy it and doesn't hold back from me.

I'm such a HORRIBLE person, I know. But you know what -- when she's riding my tongue, grinding and mashing her messy, juicy sex all over my face and USING ME to GET OFF, I don't hold it against her. I don't wait for an argument and cry and say "You USED me as a sex object! You made me feel like a WHORE!" Neither does she.

When she puts her hands on the back of my head to get my tongue deeper up her asshole while she pleasures herself with a dildo, I don't complain. When I give her so much foreplay she finally says "ENOUGH! I can't come any more! Fuck me!", I do as she asks. It's give and take.

John, they're out there -- but the ones who are TRUE sluts, you damn sure don't want to be involved with. They're fucking your friends behind your back. I've seen ut happen too many times, been come onto too many times. There're LOTS of real sluts out there, and it's pathetic.

HEY!! By the way -- don't go repeating to your S.O. about some guy on some forum said it was OK to throatfuck his wife, and she likes it. Some women ain't gonna suck it, EVER, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

So be grateful if you get head at all, or find a gay or bi-guy. They're not afraid to do it right, and most won't mind if you close your eyes and pretend they're a woman.

And on that note, I run to the hills, laughing maniacally, back to the little hermit hovel where I will die a happy man with a happy wife who love showing their sluttish sides to each other.

Edited by - cobalt60 on 2/12/2004 12:48:03 PM

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Just to set the record straight I have never, but never, 'used' a woman. Nor would I want to in real life. But I have fantasised about all sorts of things including 'using' them. So I have a sluttish side but I keep it where it belongs in the closet.

I never discovered how this played out with women - even after 30 years marriage! I do know for a fact though that when some women are fucking their S.O.s they get a thrill out of imagining they are with someone else. Is this sluttishness or just a female fantasy? Would they live it out? Very few of them I suspect. Likewise, many women are exhibitionists - check out Mardi Gras! - is this sluttishness? Does it stop with bare boobs and a bared ass? How far does their 'exhibitionism' go?

Young women in Blair's England, often students, now lap dance and strip to earn a crust. In former times they would have been stigmatised. Now it is perfectly acceptable to do this. Apart from the money side of it, many of the girls admit to enjoying the effect they have on the men. Is this 'sluttishness'?

I don't post to annoy or inslut anyone - so please forgive if I have.

Edited by - John Pype on 2/12/2004 5:15:18 PM

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I don't know anything about 'using' someone -- short of tying someone up and forcing them to do something they quite convincingly tell you they don't to do may qualify, otherwise, it takes two to tango. I would call that rape, and I don't do it, either. I do not believe in the axiom that a raped woman will eventually learn to 'like it' even 'love it' or 'crave group sex with strangers', as dramatized in countless stories from alt.sex.stories.

As for being slutty in your own bedroom; I speculate that a lot of women's capacity for getting naughty is far greater than what they would lead you to believe.

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Here's a real apology: now that I've busted in and bulldogged it, your poor thread may now be irrevocably lost. Joined the invisible choir. An ex-thread.

But time will tell...um, let's see if I have this right -- you're somewhere in UK?

Edited by - cobalt60 on 2/12/2004 7:13:26 PM

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Lets hope no-one else picks up...

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Like they don't have that. Yeah, right. I'm a hypocrite, too, but fuck all. I'm disappointed.

This round's on me!

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[rant mode]

This really is a null term as far as human relationships go. It was invented for political purposes and used for bashing up opponents in debates. It has a high emotive index, basically allowing someone to imply "my opponent thinks of other people as worthless" when talking about such things as the enjoyment of casual sex, or physical attraction to a stranger.

Just what exactly is a sex object? An inflatable doll? A vibrator?

Does anyone really imagine that when a man and woman are copulating, he is fantasizing that she is a plastic doll? The fact that she is a real woman is, to him, the whole point of the experience.

The physical and the mental aspects of human contact are separate things. A couple can enjoy good sex without needing to learn each others names. Many do. Some of them post in this forum. This does not mean that either is "using" the other, or that anyone is being treated as an "object".

[/rant mode]

Whew. Apologies for the intensity, but that particular little relic of 70s gender politics really gets my goat. And I don't even own a goat.

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By the time we parted, she was completely comfortable with her own sexual needs, and was able to ask me for the things she enjoyed most without embarrassment.

Maybe this has strayed too far from John's original topic, but what I'm trying to say is that with enough caring, patience and understanding, there is hope that any woman will be able to celebrate her sexuality in the fullest sense.

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If I was to use it it would be meant as a term of endearment. It would indicate my delight that she is joyful about her own sexuality. Unfortunately, because of the negative feelings it inspires in so many people I could never risk using the word in that sense.

I remember seeing a documentary about a sensuality education course, by women for women, called "Sluts and Goddesses", so I guess there must be some women who would not have the same reservations about this word. Perhaps the course title is in itself a challenge to established attitudes.

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So, the definition of 'slut' is once again on the table. Just like other words which can be used as pejoratives, it means different things to different people, even within the confined but mutative contexts of new and ongoing relationships.

You submit, as do I, that in at least one sense, when used to denote 'the absence of sexual inhibition', it describes an aspect of a relationship implying trust, zeal and a dedication to each other's mutual satisfaction.

At this point, we've created another semantical discourse that could get weird or ugly; I've seen these things escalate.

I think, too, the way a person reacts to the phrase 'used as a sex object' is also significant to note. When I read that, I think of it in a positive way, because face it -- the real pleasure in giving head is your partner's reactions, right? The application of groan and moan-inducing erogenous stimulation is its own reward, to which I reiterate your argument, licker: is this not being 'used' as a 'sex object', especially if a 'sex object' is 'some thing (possibly interpretable as a human body part, why restrict ourselves?) which applies or is applied to the body for the purpose of invoking sexual response, i.e. arousal and ultimately, orgasm'.

Is not my tongue a 'sex object' which is 'used' by my wife to achieve sexual gratification? Well, when you say it all academic like that, then yeah, well...OK, but when I say 'she likes it when I jam my tongue deep inside her seething snatch while I playfully two tip fingerfuck her asspipe', suddenly it's like you're just a hackneyed pulp porn writer wannabe who only says the things he does to elicit responses on the basest of levels. Well -- YEAH! 'Course I do.

Enough of that. Hey, licker!! Your posts! Thank you for joining the fray; I was afraid I'd killed it.

Challenging established attitudes is a fun but daunting windmill; I'm mothlike to its flame, even when I don't believe half of what I'm spouting (in this case, I do).

Really, though, it's hearing about things like your friend who thought her body's natural lubrication was some kind of disgusting medical problem...allow me a moment to gape agog...

...it's too much. Break out the Quixotic armor and lance....*SIGH*...mount up! No shortage of work to do.

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XoXo
Trinity James

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...which is where we all came in..

I reckon I got off lightly - just one

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Never give up mate! There are enough of us to make a difference.

Only this week my local newspaper announced that 96% of parents in this state have signed the consent form to allow their kids to attend sex education classes at school. That's got to be worth a lot.

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One of my partners once told me how much she loved watching us in the mirror wall while I did it, because she could see that it was a man who had his face between her thighs, and it felt great to her that I wanted to do that.

I understand this from the other side too. It's over 25 years since the first time a girl took my cock in her mouth, but even now, I still get that feeling of "Wow! She really wants to!"

I didn't even know that women could enjoy sex, until I was 16 years old. When I found that out for the first time I was just blown away with amazement and delight! That feeling is with me still. I guess it makes it impossible to concentrate purely on body parts.

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I still see women continually prudifying, while others are spouting innuendo and encouraging guys who are not their partner, with erotic teasing in the work place.

It's hard to talk about sex with someone without it being considered some sort of foreplay. So I only get sexual discussions with my partner.

Having something to prove sexually or social bonding or sex for gratification's sake?

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No one ever says that we who dream of flying have a "stupid" side.

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