Have you considered showing/telling them the truth, and letting the customer decide this for themselves?
As Harri said... [o\|]
[Link]
| Author | Post |
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| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 |  Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 7:25PMHave you considered showing/telling them the truth, and letting the customer decide this for themselves? As Harri said... [o\|] [Link] |
| stinkfist Senior Member Subterfuge...... 7401 Posts 4/07 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 7:31PM Click to expand What if it turned out you liked the movie? Just asking, this is interesting to me. Click to expand Yes i think if the girl has tattoos she should be featured on the box cover with her tattoos,i have no problem with girls with tattoos but others might not and as i mentioned they might not be up to date with all the girls in porn.I know that airbrushing is the norm on box covers of both porn and mainstream movies.If the person who does not like tattoo's is being deceived into buying a title thinking the girl is ink free then i guess they would not be happy..would you be if you had only bought the title for the cover girl only to find out she has a tattoo on her boob that was not featured on the box cover.Any future purchase from the company and you would be thinking "Is this girl on the box cover all she seems..it would make buying a cautious experience? [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 7:34PM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 7:42PM I made a statement that is the truth, it is common practice for the majority of companies to remove them. I then asked what would be the best route to go. If you look at our boxes, we never removed janines tattoos, or Moniques tattoos. We always told the truth and kept them on, and did let you decide. You and Harri need to lighten it up a bit. You guys need to come off attack mode. [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 7:43PM What if it turned out you liked the movie? Just asking, this is interesting to me. Click to expand Any future purchase from the company and you would be thinking "Is this girl on the box cover all she seems..it would make buying a cautious experience? Click to expand Good point.[Link] |
| stinkfist Senior Member Subterfuge...... 7401 Posts 4/07 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 7:48PM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 7:51PM I understand your point. I am just saying that every company "fixes" their cover shots. I mean every company, except maybe the amateur porn, but i know for a fact those are photoshopped too. Every magazine you read, does it. Every movie you watch, mainstream, does it. Nothing in media is untouched. I was curious about the tattoo thing because it is something I never really thought about. I really didn't know that removing a tattoo would/could effect someone watching the movie. It is a great point. You can see the progression of janines tattoos on our boxes, Steven never liked them, but we left them on. [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 7:54PM I agreed with backdoor mans comments, not yours necessarily. First off we do more sex less plot and have been doing that for a year. Check out the reviews on all of B.Skows movies, you will see this is the fact. Your distain for Paul Thomas is up to you, but he is not resigned to Vivid right now, and will be doing some independent projects for us occasionally. That has been the case also for awhile. He has never acted in one of our movies in the last 10 to 15 years. He has been required to use his real name on all of his productions lately, you will never see another chuck lords or judy blue movie come out again. We haven't used condoms in the last 5 years, it is up to the performer, but on the whole we are condomless. All the things you don't like about Vivid have been corrected a long time ago, not just in the last 6 months. You admittedly haven't watched a Vivid movie in a very long time, so I think it is unfair to speak about something you haven't revisited in years. Contempt prior to investigation. I have more respect for someone who has seen the product lately and says they like it or don't then for someone who hasn't seen it in years and making the same old claims against Vivid that were corrected long ago. The condoms for one, that was 5 or 6 years ago we changed that, yet you act as if we are still doing it. HOLLYWOOD WOODY: We have been on schedule with releases also, we shot Raylenes come back movie one month and released it the next. We are a real company with a schedule for the year, we deal with other companies that need to know what is coming out next March. We haven't been holding titles for a long time. This was addressed here long ago also and corrected. The reviews I have posted here are from customers not critics, customers like you. Check the thread, I have posted Gamelinks reviews by customers, not critics. I understand your resentments, but if you don't ever give something a second chance, when they try to make it right, you may miss out on something really good. I bought a Harley Davidson when AMC owned them, it was the biggest piece of crap ever, i swore I'd never buy another Harley again, then they changed, Harley took back over, they improved their product, they listened to their customers, I bought a new one again in 2004, it is the best bike i ever rode, wouldn't sell it for anything, well, maybe $30k. That is what we at Vivid have been doing for a long time, listening to our customers, changing what need to be changed, making it better. You're the second guy that said essentially Vivid sucks on this thread, when i asked when is the last time you saw a Vivid movie, the answer is always the same, oh I haven't seen one in years. When someone asks me "How was Avatar?" I don't say it sucked or was great until I see the movie ==================================================================================== You only want to see what you want to see. You only want to read what you want to read. In my post I was basically going over PAST trasgressions of Vivid. You only want to talk about the present, because you do not care to address the issues of the past. Well it is nice and dandy that some/many issues have been addressed and corrected. Why did they occur in the first place, may I ask? Who was watching the store for so many years? I said that I do not particularly go ga-ga over Vivid movies, because they are plot-driven (which I am not crazy about), and although I did not mention it, the male and female performers that appear in those movies turn me off as well (I really do not care to mention their names). I dislike Paul Thomas as an actor and as a director, and I still did not hear the official line as to why he had to hide under a variety of names in making movies for Vivid. He uses Paul Thomas when he gets to direct a big budget movie, but is too embarrassed when he is given a small budget? All in all there is no real strong compulsion for me to see them. And tell me, what difference does it make to you if I saw a Vivid movie 6 months ago, 1 year ago, or 2 years ago? If I saw a Disney movie 2 years ago or a year ago, do you think the product has that radically changed? If I bought a Playboy magazine a year ago, what has changed in the meantime? Have I really missed anything/that much? You keep harping on awards and strong reviews, but you did not address the question of "strong sales". You made the point but did not qualify it. I never said Vivid "sucks" (your words not mine), I believe I clearly indicated it is not the type of product I generally enjoy, as I do not enjoy certain movies, certain actors, certain songs, certain foods, soaps, cars, shaving creams, etc. I am all for positive change and that after SO MANY years Vivid wants to do things right. You are asking me to get on board and happily take a cruise. Well I don't have those feelings right now, and if other people want to board the train, well that's nice, and perhaps all may have different reasons for having stayed away or for wanting to return now. Lastly I do not know how you are making it all Vivid (all the time) or that I have a particular axe to grind. I posted several posts in this thread and spoke about misleading box covers and the like (and I gave examples). I do not recall singling out Vivid in particular. It is only when you entered the fray that you began to make these disparaging comments about me and others that you call "haters". I did not post in the other thread because the things that I was thinking were eloquently said by others, so there was not point of repeating them. But you inferred that since I and others (Den, etc) did not post there, we no longer had a legitimate reason for saying anything else. Beyond that, I think you are on overkill, and treat everyone who has anything negative to say about Vivid or misleading box covers as a bunch of "haters". Edited by - Len801 on 12/18/2009 8:16:41 PM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 8:16PM ==================================================================================== You only want to see what you want to see. You only want to read what you want to read. In my post I was basically going over PAST trasgressions of Vivid. You only want to talk about the present, because you do not care to address the issues of the past. Well it is nice and dandy that some/many issues have been addressed and corrected. Why did they occur in the first place, may I ask? Who was watching the store for so many years? I said that I do not particularly go ga-ga over Vivid movies, because they are plot-driven (which I am not crazy about), and although I did not mention it, the male and female performers that appear in those movies turn me off as well (I really do not care to mention their names). I dislike Paul Thomas as an actor and as a director, and I still did not hear the official line as to why he had to hide under a variety of names in making movies for Vivid. He uses Paul Thomas when he gets to direct a big budget movie, but is too embarrassed when he is given a small budget? All in all there is no real strong compulsion for me to see them. And tell me, what difference does it make to you if I saw a Vivid movie 6 months ago, 1 year ago, or 2 years ago? If I saw a Disney movie 2 years ago or a year ago, do you think the product has that radically changed? If I bought a Playboy magazine a year ago, what has changed in the meantime? Have I really missed anything/that much? You keep harping on awards and strong reviews, but you did not address the question of "strong sales". You made the point but did not qualify it. I never said Vivid "sucks" (your words not mine), I believe I clearly indicated it is not the type of product I generally enjoy, as I do not enjoy certain movies, certain actors, certain songs, certain foods, soaps, cars, shaving creams, etc. I am all for positive change and that after SO MANY years Vivid wants to do things right. You are asking me to get on board and happily take a cruise. Well I don't have those feelings right now, and if other people want to board the train, well that's nice, and perhaps all may have different reasons for having stayed away or for wanting to return now. [/quote] i have addressed the issues of the past. I can't unring the bell as I stated before. I don't have the past, I learn from it, but it is gone, all I have is the here and now. Who cares why they happened, as long as there not happening now. Yes the product has changed radically, but you won't know that because you haven't seen it. Watch it and tell me what you think. Paul Thomas shot a lot of movies during any given year, why he used alias for some movies is something you have to ask him, but again who really care? I get it, you don't like our actresses, or actors, or our directors. i get it, Vivid isn't for you, never was. That is ok. No problem. I am not trying to convert you, I am trying to convert people who did like Vivid in the first place, and may be strayed away, they have come back and loved our stuff. Your opinion is moot because you haven't watched our movies in a long time. You are complaining about 1985. It is almost 2010, get over it. Strong sales means strong sales, I cannot go over figures here or will not go over figures here, we order a certain number for a new release, it sells out, and we are reordering, our titles have legs. As opposed to ordering let's say 3000 units and we have 2000 units after the first week. Just numbers. I don't want you to do anything you don't want to do. No one is asking you to board the train. Herbert Spencer once said this famous quote. "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." There you go. [Link] |
| BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 9:55PM "Lighten up a bit"? Hardly. Perhaps you should stick to speaking for Vivid, not the "majority of companies." I can spot self-serving double-talk, and pointed it out. If Vivid "always told the truth," we wouldn't be having this discussion now, would we? I'm glad to hear you're moving Heaven and Earth to improve newer Vivid product. I'm less impressed with the tone that has been taken with Den (and a few others). I'm not in "attack mode," and I'm not a "Vivid hater." In fact, I want you guys to do well. So, continue to do better. In the meantime, you don't get a free pass with regard to the continuing discussions in this thread. [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 11:21PM Who cares why they happened, as long as there not happening now. Yes the product has changed radically, but you won't know that because you haven't seen it. Watch it and tell me what you think. Paul Thomas shot a lot of movies during any given year, why he used alias for some movies is something you have to ask him, but again who really care? I get it, you don't like our actresses, or actors, or our directors. i get it, Vivid isn't for you, never was. That is ok. No problem. I am not trying to convert you, I am trying to convert people who did like Vivid in the first place, and may be strayed away, they have come back and loved our stuff. Your opinion is moot because you haven't watched our movies in a long time. You are complaining about 1985. It is almost 2010, get over it. Strong sales means strong sales, I cannot go over figures here or will not go over figures here, we order a certain number for a new release, it sells out, and we are reordering, our titles have legs. As opposed to ordering let's say 3000 units and we have 2000 units after the first week. Just numbers. I don't want you to do anything you don't want to do. No one is asking you to board the train. Herbert Spencer once said this famous quote. "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." There you go. Click to expand (1) Paul Thomas has worked and works for Vivid, and YOU want ME to ask him why he used aliases in directing Vivid movies? Nice evasive answer... (2) I asked why it took so long to address those complaints (over a period of 25 years), and who was watching the store? And the answer is... (3) I don't know the product has changed because I have not seen anything in the past 6 months, is that how things are measured then? What has changed? The content is the same, the directors are the same, the performers are the same. Did I miss something? What NEW dawn I am supposed to be seeing? Are you shooting in 3D, are you shooting all-sex, IR, all-anal, gangbangs, with preggos, midgets, lactation, transsexuals, fisting, pissing, grannies? What am I supposed to be ga-ga over? (4) What if I told you in my area Vivid videos are generally not available in video/sex shops (and that goes for Wicked, VCA and Adam & Eve)? Is that a shocker for you? What if I told you consumers/shops don't want them? Gee, all these bloody "haters", who don't appreciate good porn. What's wrong with these people? (5) How do you want me to see them? If I told you I have seen them on cable, is that OK just the same or does it have to be on DVD? But what if the material on cable is not exactly last week's meterial, is that OK too, or are movies 6 months and older are those that should NOT be worthy of consideration as those are from the "old" times and not worth talking about? (6)I'm complaining about 1985? All the things I mentioned are from 1985? (7) Vivid is "not for me"? I wish it may be, but then you and I do not have the same personal preferences for singers, rock groups, sports personalities, TV programs, cars, toothpaste, women, foods and such. But that does not necessarily make someone a "hater". Some things you like more than others. Some things and people irritate and disappoint you more than others. If you went to a restaurant and were badly served for a long period of time and no matter how you and other complained and management turned a deaf hear, and all of a sudden you get a flyer at home saying that it was sorry and that (even though it had the same managment, personnel, etc) and that they wanted you to come back and that they changed the menu, your reaction would be what? You'd be rushing back inside the place and placing your reservations right now, correct? And if you were not so happy about that, a spokesperson would be saying to you, gee if you have not eaten here in the last 6 months you don't know what you are missing, and by the way can I send you a sample meal so you can see for yourself how much we have improved? (8) "Strong sales" means strong sales, I get it, but you can't go into details. Well that is a a claim YOU have made. If that is your main selling point or measure on how much the product has improved, how do you qualify and quantify that claim? Sony/Columbia may say that their movies did quite well at the box office and their sales may be 10% (a fictitious figure just to make the point) over last year, but there are entities that measure and analyse those figures, but you can't over the figures. So why did you make such a claim if you can't substantiate it? Do the "strong sales" come strictly from sales of actual DVD units or other sources (like internet, cable-satellite)? I recall the company saying some time back that DVD sales were only a small fraction of the total revenue streams for the company (meaning cable-saetellite and internet sales had far outstripped actual DVD sales). All I keep hearing from you is "when was the last time you saw a Vivid movie" and if it is not something released in the last 6 months, then we are all a bunch of "haters" and don't know what goodies we are missing. Sorry you feel that way, and that you still have such a distorted and harsh view of consumers who may not want to jump in the bandwagon so quickly. It takes time to heal wounds, and some wounds are hard to heal. Respect and trust is earned and over a period time...Keep working on it and if it is done right some/most people will return. The message has been delivered and heard, now give it time to work its way through. I am getting a bit tired of repeating it, but BEFORE you arrived on the scene I and other posters were generalizing about "Boxcover Lies", the main topic of this thread. But you have taken it to mean that EVERYTHING had to do with Vivid, and that we are all a bunch of "haters". You do not speak for the whole industry, and cannot be responsible for what others do. On a last note, while you subsequently denied you had agreed with my previous statements and claimed your were agreeing with someone else, you were in fact citing and commenting on MY post--- this one: Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 12:54:04 PM. So I am bewildered and confused and no longer know what to make of any comment at any given time. Edited by - Len801 on 12/19/2009 12:11:34 AM Edited by - Len801 on 12/19/2009 1:35:13 AM Edited by - heynow on 12/22/2009 9:24:17 PM [Link] |
Flash  Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Dec 19 2009 : 2:23AM [Link] |
| backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07 | Posted - Dec 19 2009 : 12:20PM [Link] |
| Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05 | Posted - Dec 20 2009 : 4:05AM [Link] |
| Albarellus Member 68 Posts 7/07 | Posted - Dec 20 2009 : 6:33AM False advertising? Fuck you. [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 20 2009 : 6:53AM I'd say that Den is an deleted who needs to chill out, but that would be a bit too obvious to anyone who has checked out his mind-numbing 'reviews.' We're not going to start calling people names here. --BigBobxxx Edited by - BigBobxxx on 12/20/2009 9:32:42 AM [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 20 2009 : 10:35AM I can't understand the point of the "bonus" scene. I don't know when it all started. In the beginning and in some movies the "bonus scene" was something additional that was shot but not put in the actual movie. The VHS version would have the just the regular scenes, while DVD had something extra, which would prompt people to get and convert over to DVD. Then the bonus scene was nothing more than a scene previously released in another movie, so all it was just a "plug" and "long trailer" for the other movie. The box cover essentially is a visual "summary" of the VHS/DVD content should be. It is what essentially makes you decide to rent/buy the movie. If it is deceptive in some way, then the company that did that has basically irritated and made the consumer spent time and money needlessly. It is bad for itself and the porn industry in general. Is is perhaps a bit worst for euro movies, in that the artwork may be different (with movie being released with a different title over time and by a number of companies) for movie, the name of movie director is changed, quite frequently names appearing on box cover are not featured in the movie, poor or absence of credits (performers) on box cover or movie itself, no clue/indication when the movie was made,etc. Edited by - Len801 on 12/20/2009 11:06:47 AM [Link] |
| Offender Member 158 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Dec 20 2009 : 11:43AM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 1:12PM (1) Paul Thomas has worked and works for Vivid, and YOU want ME to ask him why he used aliases in directing Vivid movies? Nice evasive answer... A. He used different names because of the amount of movies he did and the different budgets that went with those movies. This has never been a secret. On lower budget movies he choose to use a different name, we made him stop doing that. (2) I asked why it took so long to address those complaints (over a period of 25 years), and who was watching the store? And the answer is... A.Steven Hirsch is watching the store and complaints were always addressed over that 25 year period. We didn't receive a lot of complaints until boards like this were set up, which gives customers a platform to give us feedback. (3) I don't know the product has changed because I have not seen anything in the past 6 months, is that how things are measured then? What has changed? The content is the same, the directors are the same, the performers are the same. Did I miss something? What NEW dawn I am supposed to be seeing? Are you shooting in 3D, are you shooting all-sex, IR, all-anal, gangbangs, with preggos, midgets, lactation, transsexuals, fisting, pissing, grannies? What am I supposed to be ga-ga over? a.The directors are not the same, the girls are forever changing. No 3D, yes much more sex, have always had IR, not all anal but yes anal,no gangbangs,preggos,midgets or lactation, yes we have a tranny line, fisting is illegal, no pissing or grannies. (4) What if I told you in my area Vivid videos are generally not available in video/sex shops (and that goes for Wicked, VCA and Adam & Eve)? Is that a shocker for you? What if I told you consumers/shops don't want them? Gee, all these bloody "haters", who don't appreciate good porn. What's wrong with these people? a.What area do you live in, I would ask. (5) How do you want me to see them? If I told you I have seen them on cable, is that OK just the same or does it have to be on DVD? But what if the material on cable is not exactly last week's meterial, is that OK too, or are movies 6 months and older are those that should NOT be worthy of consideration as those are from the "old" times and not worth talking about? a.Cable versions are different depending on what network you get. (6)I'm complaining about 1985? All the things I mentioned are from 1985? Well they start there, and don't really cover the last 2 years. (7) Vivid is "not for me"? I wish it may be, but then you and I do not have the same personal preferences for singers, rock groups, sports personalities, TV programs, cars, toothpaste, women, foods and such. But that does not necessarily make someone a "hater". Some things you like more than others. Some things and people irritate and disappoint you more than others. If you went to a restaurant and were badly served for a long period of time and no matter how you and other complained and management turned a deaf hear, and all of a sudden you get a flyer at home saying that it was sorry and that (even though it had the same managment, personnel, etc) and that they wanted you to come back and that they changed the menu, your reaction would be what? You'd be rushing back inside the place and placing your reservations right now, correct? And if you were not so happy about that, a spokesperson would be saying to you, gee if you have not eaten here in the last 6 months you don't know what you are missing, and by the way can I send you a sample meal so you can see for yourself how much we have improved? A.We may have the same preferences, you don't know that because you don't know me. Again I am not trying to convert you. You made statements about Vivid, I answered those statements with what i know to be true. I've have actually answered the restaurant question before, but for us the personal is not the same, the directors are different and so are the girls. But if all was the same, no I would not go back. But people and places do change. (8) "Strong sales" means strong sales, I get it, but you can't go into details. Well that is a a claim YOU have made. If that is your main selling point or measure on how much the product has improved, how do you qualify and quantify that claim? Sony/Columbia may say that their movies did quite well at the box office and their sales may be 10% (a fictitious figure just to make the point) over last year, but there are entities that measure and analyse those figures, but you can't over the figures. So why did you make such a claim if you can't substantiate it? Do the "strong sales" come strictly from sales of actual DVD units or other sources (like internet, cable-satellite)? I recall the company saying some time back that DVD sales were only a small fraction of the total revenue streams for the company (meaning cable-saetellite and internet sales had far outstripped actual DVD sales). All I keep hearing from you is "when was the last time you saw a Vivid movie" and if it is not something released in the last 6 months, then we are all a bunch of "haters" and don't know what goodies we are missing. Sorry you feel that way, and that you still have such a distorted and harsh view of consumers who may not want to jump in the bandwagon so quickly. It takes time to heal wounds, and some wounds are hard to heal. Respect and trust is earned and over a period time...Keep working on it and if it is done right some/most people will return. The message has been delivered and heard, now give it time to work its way through. A. That is exactly what I'm doing. It is a process not an event. I agree with you there. I am getting a bit tired of repeating it, but BEFORE you arrived on the scene I and other posters were generalizing about "Boxcover Lies", the main topic of this thread. But you have taken it to mean that EVERYTHING had to do with Vivid, and that we are all a bunch of "haters". You do not speak for the whole industry, and cannot be responsible for what others do. A. I am not speaking for the whole industry, I am addressing what Den said about Vivid. On a last note, while you subsequently denied you had agreed with my previous statements and claimed your were agreeing with someone else, you were in fact citing and commenting on MY post--- this one: Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 12:54:04 PM. So I am bewildered and confused and no longer know what to make of any comment at any given time. Edited by - Len801 on 12/19/2009 12:11:34 AM Edited by - Len801 on 12/19/2009 1:35:13 AM Click to expand [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 1:14PM I should say there is a story, just more sex. [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 1:22PM That is the direction we have taken. All too often it has become the Art Dept.s vision of the movie. As for the hardcore scenes on the back, to the cover photo on the front, it is all signed off by the director. This way there are no mistakes, the guy who shot it is bringing you his vision on the box of HIS movie.It is abundantly clear the consumer whats to be told the truth. If that movie is not for him due to what he sees on the box, so be it. I hear you guys loud and clear, and I will make sure that is what we do. Thanks for your support. [Link] |
| Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 2:14PM [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 3:27PM Now let's see: (1) Paul Thomas has worked and works for Vivid, and YOU want ME to ask him why he used aliases in directing Vivid movies? Nice evasive answer... A. He used different names because of the amount of movies he did and the different budgets that went with those movies. This has never been a secret. On lower budget movies he choose to use a different name, we made him stop doing that. Len801 response: If Clint Eastwood were to work for Warner Bros, but would from time to stick another name on the movie credits like : "John Clearbranch", "Jimmy Whitecliff", what image would that give him or Warner Bros? Do you think Warner Bros would accept that type of situation? It is not Clint Eastwood that paid for the movie, and Warner Bros runs off the movie prints and puts them in distribution (domestic and foreign). Does/did Paul Thomas make the decisions for Vivid as to how his movies (financed by Vivid) and movie credits are attributed and marketed? And lastly, WHEN did it cease becoming a "secret"? I only learned about it very later on, and only through magazines. (2) I asked why it took so long to address those complaints (over a period of 25 years), and who was watching the store? And the answer is... A.Steven Hirsch is watching the store and complaints were always addressed over that 25 year period. We didn't receive a lot of complaints until boards like this were set up, which gives customers a platform to give us feedback. Len801 response: OK. When it was only magazines and the odd fan/consumer it was no big deal, the situation was controllable but with internet blogs and forums it becomes a little more difficult. (3) I don't know the product has changed because I have not seen anything in the past 6 months, is that how things are measured then? What has changed? The content is the same, the directors are the same, the performers are the same. Did I miss something? What NEW dawn I am supposed to be seeing? Are you shooting in 3D, are you shooting all-sex, IR, all-anal, gangbangs, with preggos, midgets, lactation, transsexuals, fisting, pissing, grannies? What am I supposed to be ga-ga over? A.The directors are not the same, the girls are forever changing. No 3D, yes much more sex, have always had IR, not all anal but yes anal, no gangbangs, preggos, midgets or lactation, yes we have a tranny line, fisting is illegal, no pissing or grannies. Len801 response: I could address the other points, but it would get very analytical and very mathematical comparing the number of IR and anal scenes in a Vivid film vs those produced by other companies in a given period. It would not reveal anything you do not already know. Fisting is not "illegal", it just may be viewed by some regions of the country as "obscene" and presecutable, and I can understand Vivid not wanting to go there. (4) What if I told you in my area Vivid videos are generally not available in video/sex shops (and that goes for Wicked, VCA and Adam & Eve)? Is that a shocker for you? What if I told you consumers/shops don't want them? Gee, all these bloody "haters", who don't appreciate good porn. What's wrong with these people? a.What area do you live in, I would ask. Len801 response: You can check with Vivid's Marketing/Sales Dept as to where Vivid VHS/DVD movies were/are not widely marketed/sold. (5) How do you want me to see them? If I told you I have seen them on cable, is that OK just the same or does it have to be on DVD? But what if the material on cable is not exactly last week's material, is that OK too, or are movies 6 months and older are those that should NOT be worthy of consideration as those are from the "old" times and not worth talking about? A.Cable versions are different depending on what network you get. Len801 response: So much so that Vivid name may not even show up on the credits, and sometimes the movie title is changed? And if the scenes are not the same, why would it want to degrade its product in such a way? So if you really wanted the real deal, then only the (original) DVD disc is the way to "appreciate" and evaluate a Vivid movie? And the message you are sending to consumers who watch these movies on cable/satellite is that they are getting an inferior/altered product? (6)I'm complaining about 1985? All the things I mentioned are from 1985? A.Well they start there, and don't really cover the last 2 years. Len 801 response: 1985 is when it all started (meaning the company's creation and first releases). So you are saying that up until 2 years ago, we should dismiss everything that went on and was more or less fair game, and everything after that is honky dory? (7) Vivid is "not for me"? I wish it may be, but then you and I do not have the same personal preferences for singers, rock groups, sports personalities, TV programs, cars, toothpaste, women, foods and such. But that does not necessarily make someone a "hater". Some things you like more than others. Some things and people irritate and disappoint you more than others. If you went to a restaurant and were badly served for a long period of time and no matter how you and other complained and management turned a deaf hear, and all of a sudden you get a flyer at home saying that it was sorry and that (even though it had the same managment, personnel, etc) and that they wanted you to come back and that they changed the menu, your reaction would be what? You'd be rushing back inside the place and placing your reservations right now, correct? And if you were not so happy about that, a spokesperson would be saying to you, gee if you have not eaten here in the last 6 months you don't know what you are missing, and by the way can I send you a sample meal so you can see for yourself how much we have improved? A.We may have the same preferences, you don't know that because you don't know me. Again I am not trying to convert you. You made statements about Vivid, I answered those statements with what i know to be true. I've have actually answered the restaurant question before, but for us the personal is not the same, the directors are different and so are the girls. But if all was the same, no I would not go back. But people and places do change. Len801 response: Of course we all have different tastes in everything around us. The point I was trying to make is that a "Disney" movie" will always be a Disney movie no matter who directs it or stars in it (or when it was made). A Harry Potter movie will pretty much be the same no matter if it was made by different crew or director 2 or 4 years ago. The corporate imprint, vision and content will basically remain the same. You will pretty much know when you are watching an Andrew Blake movie. (8) "Strong sales" means strong sales, I get it, but you can't go into details. Well that is a a claim YOU have made. If that is your main selling point or measure on how much the product has improved, how do you qualify and quantify that claim? Sony/Columbia may say that their movies did quite well at the box office and their sales may be 10% (a fictitious figure just to make the point) over last year, but there are entities that measure and analyse those figures, but you can't over the figures. So why did you make such a claim if you can't substantiate it? Do the "strong sales" come strictly from sales of actual DVD units or other sources (like internet, cable-satellite)? I recall the company saying some time back that DVD sales were only a small fraction of the total revenue streams for the company (meaning cable-saetellite and internet sales had far outstripped actual DVD sales). All I keep hearing from you is "when was the last time you saw a Vivid movie" and if it is not something released in the last 6 months, then we are all a bunch of "haters" and don't know what goodies we are missing. Sorry you feel that way, and that you still have such a distorted and harsh view of consumers who may not want to jump in the bandwagon so quickly. It takes time to heal wounds, and some wounds are hard to heal. Respect and trust is earned and over a period time...Keep working on it and if it is done right some/most people will return. The message has been delivered and heard, now give it time to work its way through. A. That is exactly what I'm doing. It is a process not an event. I agree with you there. Len801 response: Finally something we can understand and agree on. I am getting a bit tired of repeating it, but BEFORE you arrived on the scene I and other posters were generalizing about "Boxcover Lies", the main topic of this thread. But you have taken it to mean that EVERYTHING had to do with Vivid, and that we are all a bunch of "haters". You do not speak for the whole industry, and cannot be responsible for what others do. A. I am not speaking for the whole industry, I am addressing what Den said about Vivid. Len801 response: As I already explained, Den's complaints have little to do with my own. I do not go crazy over BTS or position on DVD's. It is not something that makes or breaks my appreciation of a adult or mainstream movie. I already listed some of the things I find irritating, and just about every outfit has done that over a period of time (the removed tattoos on box cover, the name mispellings, the showing of women and thumbnails that are not in the movie, the compilations that are not properly identified as such, the splashing of a woman's name and image on box cover and who turns up not doing any sex scene in the movie, and a myriad of other things). Again if you read my early posts I was at no time singling out Vivid for any particular bad behavior. It just surprised me that it took so long for it to confront these issues. If it had taken care of them LONG time ago, we would not be having these discussions, that's for sure. I wish Vivid all my best in wanting to do right by porn consumers and those that may be prompted to return and watch its product again. With such a positive outlook it will be a good motivator and elevate the quality of all porn product for itself and for the whole industry. Edited by - Len801 on 12/21/2009 3:30:07 PM Edited by - Len801 on 12/21/2009 3:31:05 PM [Link] |
| Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 4:22PM My top current director does the same. Sam No if it's big butt and Mason if it's more kinky, rough or personalized. It's nothing new in porn or in mainstream for directors to work under different names - esp old-school Hollywood. It's only when the director becomes famous themselves - that people realize it and I guess some feel duped. It's cool by me. I'm not missing any content or paying for something that's not there. Edited by - savoy on 12/21/2009 4:26:10 PM [Link] |
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| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 4:35PM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 4:41PM |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 5:00PM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 5:03PM I love the fact you like Judy Blue more than PT. Classic. [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 6:12PM But I never understood why Vivid would have allowed its important in-house director like Paul Thomas to use other names. As it has been explained, PT for big budget movies, and other names for smaller scale movies. The image and the impression would be that both Vivid and PT were rather embarassed and not very proud of those movies. If it were otherwise then PT/Vivid would have been extremnely proud to have that highly recognizable name on the movie credits. That does not mean that they were crappy or not enjoyable to watch but it does suggest one or the other entity were not very comfortable and proud to have the real director name used. And if Vivid has stopped that practice it only signifies that it no longer supported that position and has found it wanting. [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 6:24PM PT liked being associated with his blockbuster features. [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 21 2009 : 7:50PM I will say that I think Den is being anal retentive, certainly going to the law over something like this is way over the line. Den's as much a member of this forum as you are. You're both posting here, right? Glad to see you making the effort to insult Den, without actually calling him names.  -- BigBobxxx Edited by - BigBobxxx on 12/21/2009 9:45:55 PM [Link] |
| Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09 | Posted - Dec 22 2009 : 12:43AM Edited by - rosco fuji on 12/22/2009 12:48:48 AM [Link] |
| Goodspeed Member Squirt Aficionado 697 Posts 3/09 | Posted - Dec 22 2009 : 4:12AM [Link] |
| Den Member 911 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 22 2009 : 6:02AM Thanks, Den [Link] |
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| charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09 | Posted - Dec 22 2009 : 2:52PM [Link] |
| Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Dec 22 2009 : 4:57PM From Etiquette - "Please don't quote people's entire posts - quote only relevant sections or address the person by name." Thanks. [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 22 2009 : 10:16PM I also think criticizing someone for taking a minor issue like this to the law is more than legit. Sorry that I'm not joining in the Vivid dogpile that you regularly start up BigBobxxx, seems like you get mighty sensitive over criticisms against certain folks but are pretty comfortable with throwing them around yourself against other targets. Edited by - BlackSix on 12/22/2009 10:21:10 PM [Link] |
| Den Member 911 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 22 2009 : 11:48PM It was not a minor problem. See Details and It included 47 DVDs I was getting no where and I suggested that I was going to file a Complaint and Resolution form with Ohio's Attorney General. That was the fastest action I ever got. I even got a call from Teresa Flynt! The problem was fixed without having to file the form. So, it wasn't a minor problem and it wasn't taken to the law. Den [Link] |
| ADT44 Member 876 Posts 7/09 | Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 8:00AM You go, Den! This is what I call taking your porn hobby serious! If I would buy/watch so much porn as you do then I would be twice as pissed as you are and would only complain like 3 times with said company and then file that damn complain with the Attorney General's office. Somebody got to teach those guys a lesson not to lie there ass off or find excuses over and over and over again. Gotto get them where it hurts: in there wallet and creating bad publicity for them in a more professional manner. I'm all for that. Too bad that these companies know that probably noone would give up there anonymity to make a point at a court of law or something like that. It cracks me up that that vivid guy NOW tries to do big time damage control. I hope your not naive and see through this charade. As said, I myself wouldn't neccesarily take these guys to court (I have better things to do quite frankly to spend my time on these thugs) but just send their products back to the vendor once I've watched them once or twice. Works fine with me. Do you guys have the same kind of consumer protection laws? If yes, I would suggest EVERYBODY who cares about the truthness of claims on the covers to do the same as I do! These guys need to be tought a lesson somehow. And I don't care if somebody of the art department screws up unintentional or intentional. That does no make any difference according to consumer law! You're responsible as a company for such fuck-ups. It's the same as if Shell could say after a big time oil leak, oh well, It's done unintentional by one of our employees, therefor we aren't responsible by law to make up for all losses that occured in this chain of causation. ROFL. Nice try tho, vivid guy but I'm not impressed by that argument of yours. Sorry. You have to do better than that. Den, you do what you have to do! Get 'em tiger, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.   Anyway, I hope companies like Vivid soon improve in that regard. To do so, would also be good for business as many European consumers (that have highly consumer protective laws) would then not send the products back if the extra's arent on the dvd. Heck, iI can imagine lots of people sending the dvds back because they dont like them after all. As long as there is a lie by the company, that lie give us the right to act in that manner. It's as simple as that. Edited by - adt44 on 12/23/2009 8:14:33 AM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 4:54PM It was a mistake on the art dept. end. They are redoing the boxes and stickering the ones that are in stock. [Link] |
| ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08 | Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 5:10PM [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 6:04PM [Link] |
| Jacco All-Star Member "liable to deprave and corrupt" 2673 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 6:16PM Jacco [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 6:59PM For rental, if there is a technical problem with the DVD discs, 99% of the time the store owner will NOT get another copy from his supplier, so your chances of seeing another good copy of the movie is next to improbable. If you do succeed in getting a credit (not money money back) you will only get to rent another title, which is not really fully satisfactory if you really wanted to see that "damaged" movie badly. If we are talking about a movie that was bought, I think you could make a good case for probably getting your money back (99% of the time). But again you get your money back, but your chances of seeing that movie is improbable unless you hunt it down at some other store (with possibly the same technical glitches). But if you say to the clerk that the girl plastered on the thumbnail on the back is not in the movie, if it was a rental at most you may get back a credit for another movie and you really will have to argue a lot, the clerk may say to you that he/she has to refer it to her supervisor/boss who has to review the movie and in about a week or two you get a call at home advising you of their decision to reimburse you or not. Who are you going to complain to if you rented OLD AND ANAL #87 and you spent $3-4 on it, and the store refuses to give you a credit to rent another? [Link] |
| ADT44 Member 876 Posts 7/09 | Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 7:49PM Forgive me my grammar/syntax. Actually, yes, I’ve done that a couple of times. But it becomes more tricky if you buy at an adult video/merchandise store. In a lot of European countries there are hardly any specific adult dvd/VHS stores (like in the States) any longer as almost everything goes via online stores nowadays. Yes, there are a few physical stores left in countries that have redlight districts (Germany/Belgium/Holland etc.) but that’s about it. Stores don’t fall within the specific (European) consumer protection laws and laws in regard buying stuff in a non-physical matter. Shops here have the choice to either give you a replacement of the same product (50/50) ,fix it (80/20) and if it can’t be fixed a refund (80/20) or more common a voucher of the amout of the product that can only be used at the store you bought the product from. (90/10). So a lot of time you have difficulty in getting what you want. For example if I would buy an expensive EA DVD of (pice here about $45-$50) and the dvd is busted, I don’t want to have a phucking coupon for the amount of $50 I want my money back! It becomes even more crazy for those people buying 5 or 6 dvds of that price range. You have a way bigger chance to get a full refund at stores (instead of all the other options storeowners are allowed to do) if there is a BIG fuck up of the claim or in the product ( promising an extra behind the scene/promising 6 scenes where there are only one) . A pix of a scene that isn’t in the movie doesnt normally give you the right to get that refund, only a coupon or the other options, UNLESS the pix is a rather big portion of the artwork. But this is in regard to purchasing something in a physical store. So here is what you gotta do in most european countries (such as the one Im at right now) buy online NOT in physical stores. There are some special (communautarian European) laws and common statutes between different consumer and company representatives that all say that you have the right to send ANY product back FOR WHATEVER reason you feel like WITHOUT having to give a reason whatsoever! You don’t even need to say that you’re sending product x y or z back because it has a defect. You’re just entitled to send it back (on your on costs) and get a refund (Not a coupon!) IF you send the product back withinh 14 workdays. NO QUESTION ASKED. Same with books, TV’s and even when you buy property such as houses (altho this is 3 days after you signed the buying contract). Anyway, to make it more „fun“ for the other party, if they don’t give up there number at the chamber of commerce offices on the web-site, or otherwise don’t inform the consumer about all sorts of things then this 14 days is becoming 30 or sometimes even 60 days. That’s a lot of time to read that book of 1000 pages that has 4 words unprinted, you bought, listen to the cd that skips for 1 second, or watch the dvd that freezes for 3 secs. People who don’t purchase stuff in a professional manner are well protected. Companies just have to deal with it here. I don’t send back stuff a lot (as I dont buy lot’s of (porn)dvd’s) but I wont hessitate to act in such a manner if I don’t get what is promised to me. @len, youre right kids or even older store clerks jusr rerack the defect product. What I have see them do in many countries here is even worse. They do it wit food and drinks that have expired. Yesterday I was at a rather grocery store chain and wanted to buy some gatorade. I noticed that all 25 bottles that were left were not good anymore; they had expired for 4 fucking weeks. I asked this boy who worked at the store and pointed it out to him, he just said „oh, that not good, maybe you can try another flavour“ and turned to walk away. I said get your manager. So he got his manager and the dude (40 something) said thats not good sir, and started to clean out the rack in front my eyes. Later on the evening when I had to go back because I had forgotten wash powder( or how do you say that in english) for my washing mashine I noticed that the rack of orange flavoured Gatorade was was filled up again....an guess what....the same fucking drinks that the manager cleaned out(all expired for 1 month). Un-fucking-believable! I guess they do that because hardly anybody watches the expiry dates especially older people who don’t have that good sight anymore Last week in another grocery store the same happened to me with steaks and bread. [Link] |
| Jacco All-Star Member "liable to deprave and corrupt" 2673 Posts 5/04 | Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 7:49PM We have been doing that for 22 years now. But since we do select carefully which movies we sell, most customers are satisfied. Jacco [Link] |
| Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 23 2009 : 8:31PM That's the reality of things, so you can imagine when you see a problem with an adult title, which client is going to make a stink about it with his video rental store? You may succeed in getting a credit (in some rare cases), store will not get another good copy, and the bad copy gets returned to the rental racks. Invariably they don't care and that increases the frustrations one has with sometimes "trivial" things as boxcover lies. Buying DVD's over the counter or on-line depending on who you deal with (largwe, small, domestic, foreign) may bring different resolutions to a variety of problems. But if you bought the DVD say for $12, what are you going to do spend time and money to send it back, and explain over and over what you find unacceptable and want your money back? [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Dec 24 2009 : 7:28AM |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 25 2009 : 3:38AM Sorry that I'm not joining in the Vivid dogpile that you regularly start up BigBobxxx, seems like you get mighty sensitive over criticisms against certain folks but are pretty comfortable with throwing them around yourself against other targets. Edited by - BlackSix on 12/22/2009 10:21:10 PM [/quote] You know, I thought for a second it was only me, But I think you hit the nail on the head here Blacksix. As a senior poster here I value your opinion. I think Bigbox should value it too. [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Dec 25 2009 : 3:45AM Customer service is the key. Which starts at the manufacture level. We have always taken back movies even if their is no defect. If it didn't sell or rent, return it to us. What stores are you at, if I may ask? [Link] |
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