Personally, I think there's plenty of anal out there. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing. I'm just stating an opinion based on the current market.

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i won't comment on the efficacy of his suggestion, though i will say that i am one who prefers watching mostly vaginal with a little anal or DP's, etc. added in "on the side." i also believe that hardcore anal/DP/DPP/DAP lovers are in the very vocal minority, while those who still prefer watching vaginal are in the silent minority, but i'm biased in that regard ...

Edited by - wetmartini on 7/30/2003 2:39:10 PM

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I stated it many times already that I think
anal is not payed good enough/pussy-only is payed too much compared to anal. Due to this current pricing policy new girls are not incited to try anal straight away. Thus the lack of <anal teens>, <asian anal> etc.

Accepting the fact that all of us want more money (producers shall maximize their profit, girls shall be payed good for their work, we consumers shall get our dvds still cheap), I suggest releasing the same scene just twice - once strictly non-anal, once pussy & anal. These allows the producers to shell out a bit more money for anal, while still earning more while keeping the end price as it is now.

Edited by - Shameless on 8/1/2003 3:04:06 AM

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I think you were pretty clear in your original post. However I do think there is a flaw in your economic logic in the post.

For the sake of discussion, let's say that a studio sells 8,000 copies of a porn movie. 4,000 are anal only lovers and 4,000 are the rest of the crowd.

If you make 1a and 1b, you are not going to get the 8,000 consumers buying both versions so immediately the possible revenue is cut in half for each version. Granted there would be a possible percentage increase in sales of each of the versions but it certainly would not approach the 8,000 mark for each version.

In another thread there was quite a hefty discussion of the steps necessary in production of a DVD over VHS. It is a considerably more complex process to get the DVD out and the costs of producing them would necessarily be quite a bit greater.

So now there is a possible small percentage increase in total sales, but expenses have gone up quite a bit. Add in the fact that you want the girls paid more (200% to 300%) just to entice them to do anal and the overall costs have gone up again.

In another thread you were asking insiders for their input and opinions and two studio reps responded. You barely commented on their responses (which you asked for) because they didn't say what you wanted to hear. Tricia has responded in this thread and it seems that you are ingoring her input, or at least not responding to it. Again it's not what you want to hear.

So with the increased costs of production (two versions and extra for anal inducement) but half the total sales for each version (for the sake of discussion) the overall revenues would be less - not double.

I agree with Tricia that there's quite a bit of anal on the market. Sure it's not all anal, all girls, all scenes, but it's there.

In another one of your threads, GoldHat asked a question and I'll paraphrase "if the costs increase for producing an all anal DVD by 200% or 300%, would you be willing to pay $40+ for the DVD while others pay $19?" I think you have answered that question in this thread, and the answer is no.

Please don't get me wrong because I certainly have my share of anal series and anal scenes.

One place where I do think that the 'Anal Campaign' has a legitimate complaint is when you pick up a title and the cover says something to the effect of "All girls in All scenes get their sphincters stretched for your pleasure" and then there is anal in only four out of five scenes. That is false advertising and is cause IMO for a legitimate complaint.

Do your research, and if necessary wait for the reviews to come out. That way you can get the ones that have what you want and won't waste your money. It may mean that you don't rush out and be the first one on the block to pick up the DVD, but hey you get what you want.

Edited by - DenverDon on 8/1/2003 3:54:28 AM

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About having two version of a dvd .. just one dvd with a few more choices in the menu would do, like
'Play movie'
'Play movie, skip anal'
'Play movie, skip pussy'
'Play movie, skip blow jobs'
'Play movie, skip blow jobs and pop shot'
'Play movie, skip everything'

gh

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Here's a combination of Shameless's idea and GoldHat's idea:

One DVD, not two, but a two-sided DVD with the vag-only version on Side "A," and the anal/DP/DAP version on side "B."

Revise Shameless's idea as follows:

DVD :
Side "A": tease & LOT's of pussy-only & cum-shot
Side "B": tease & very little pussy-only & LOT's of anal/DP/DAP & cum shot
(same tease, same ending, but different sex scenes)

Production costs the same. Currently, as we all know, there are many all anal releases. I'm referring to movies in which every woman, without exception, does anal. Therefore, all that would need to be done in such cases is for each scene to be shot and edited in the manner in which Shameless described. There would be no reason necessary to increase the usual going rate for anal. (Note: this idea would only be used when a movie was set to be all anal anyway.) The overall production costs of a studio would essentially stay the same, the price of the DVD would be the same, yet consumers who prefer vag-only would be happy, and consumers who prefer anal/vag would be happy, also. The net effect is that the revenue for such a DVD might rise significantly. Why? Because, assuming that such a DVD is marketed effectively, this twist would attract all those consumers who shun anal and would have otherwise skipped buying the movie, in addition to the anal enthusiasts who would have bought the movie anyway.

Now, the overall length of such a DVD would be about double of what it would have been, but consider that Tom Byron's upcoming DVD releases are going to be four hours in length, and yet I'm sure that Tom knows what he's doing and that his company's releases will be profitable. However, with this twist on Shameless's idea, such a DVD release wouldn't necessarily need to be two hours on each side in order for fans to feel like they're getting their money's worth.

Keep in mind, as I stated earlier, that this twist would only be used when a studio is going to shoot an all anal theme movie (hence, there really would be no rise in their overall production costs). The aim of this strategy would not be to try to keep all anal and vag-only movies completely separate in the marketplace (which would be unrealistic). Rather, the aim would be to introduce more options in the marketplace whereby consumers could exercise their preference one way or the other (far more realistic) and hopefully, sell more units to boot.

But as I said at the outset, I'm not arguing or advocating this twist to Shameless's idea. I've merely presented a way to do it that might be feasible. Personally, I don't care one way or the other.

PM

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Both sides of the disc would have to be authored separately, so there's no difference between 2 sides and 2 DVDs of a movie that is a very similar movie. Not quite twice the work, but definitely more work than just one.

We're always listening to new ideas and thinking about them, but right now, at Evil Angel we're happy with having some series' that people know they can count on as Anal series - such as Euro Hardball, True Anal Stories, or Weapons of Ass Destruction.
Even in those, there is some vaginal sex, but we put lots of chapters, so you know that you can skip a chapter, and you won't be missing whatever happens in the next position.

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No problem, Tricia, like I wrote, I wasn't advocating Shameless's idea, nor recommending that any studio actually adopt it (I was really just thinking out loud, trying to figure out some way to make Shameless's idea more doable). But as I said, personally, I really don't care one way or the other. I'm happy with things being the way they already are.

"Tricia:
Both sides of the disc would have to be authored separately, so there's no difference between 2 sides and 2 DVDs of a movie that is a very similar movie. Not quite twice the work, but definitely more work than just one."

As I wrote at the end of my post, "I've merely presented a way to do it that might be feasible." Nonetheless, I appreciate your insider's perspective, Tricia. I guess there really is no practical way for a studio to implement Shameless's idea (sorry, Shameless).

"Tricia:
We're always listening to new ideas and thinking about them, but right now, at Evil Angel we're happy with having some series' that people know they can count on as Anal series - such as Euro Hardball, True Anal Stories, or Weapons of Ass Destruction.
Even in those, there is some vaginal sex, but we put lots of chapters, so you know that you can skip a chapter, and you won't be missing whatever happens in the next position."

I, too, am very happy with the way Evil Angel does their DVDs. You've done a truly splendid job in this area for your company, Tricia. I wouldn't change a thing.

Pontus

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I'm SICK of the amount of anal, DP, A2M, etc.. out there now. It's a chore finding stuff without anal since you have to read so many reviews and know whos in and whos producing, just to find something that you won't have to fast forward through 1/2 of because you really don't care for it and your SO truely is disgusted by it.

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Keep up the good work.

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While money does not grow on trees I am searching for alternative solutions, because I am really bored with asian-lines featuring hardly any anal etc.

Also: An anal-fan myself, I can very well understand creamlovers position. Two cuttings or an A- and B-side (thanks Pontus!) are just some ideas to please all. If I am not so good at ecconomics, I am sorry (this is for Denver).

Yours!
Shameless - still looking for viable ways to incite more anal

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As you can see here repeatedly on the forums, there are at least as many people who would like to see less anal happening in porn as more. But it also seems like there are people who'd like to see SOME anal, just not ALL anal.

Oh, and the fact that Evil Angel does or doesn't do more anal (and I can probably say the same for Red Light and Elegant and Anabolic....) has nothing to do with money or the cost of a scene. We try to shoot the best scene possible. I'm sorry that you don't consider a scene worthwhile if it doesn't contain anal and probably even a DP or DA. But many people like scenes that have a progression of what THEY would do if they were fucking the girl. Start by getting a blowjob, fuck her pussy for a bit, then move on to fucking the girl's ass if she's up for it.
There are a lot of worthwhile girls out there in porn who aren't doing anal in every scene, and I'd hate to see them get lost.

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What about Euro versions (containing fisting) ??

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Just one last thing: We also had a lot of people complaining about the lack of teen anal, asian anal and ebony anal here. I well think companies could try at least to listen to these complaints intead of always defending themselves and attacking those who rise their voice.

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you won't seem to listen to the idea that your solution is not a solution for those not looking for anal. it would disrupt the continuity of the scene.

Edited by - Steph on 8/3/2003 10:05:36 AM

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I know it's technically challenging but would it be possible to pick the order of the sex acts as part of an advanced menu option. Break the scene down into it's various acts and allow the viewer to order them. (maybe even allow them to set a number to repeat a certain segment multiple times for the folks that want to watch 120 minutes of anal).

I think this would be challenging to shoot, edit and master for DVD but possibly a better overall experience than any of the virtual/sex simulator DVDs on the market.

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As far as the topic of this thread. Ehhhh... I just feel like if Shameless wants to go start making some movies and establish his own wacky anal-centric pricing structure, so be it. Meanwhile, as a fan who doesn't really know anything except MAYBE what I like to see (and that's a big maybe), I'll stick with Tricia's philosophy. I want a GOOD scene, not necessarily an anal one, but not necessarily one without anal either. Further compartmentalizing porn as is being suggested here just further distances me from the dynamic flow and human elements that attract me to porn in the first place.

Mike L.

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From the total number of people that have registered and posted, it seems to be a smaller, but very vocal group that is lamenting, or campaigning about the lack of 'all anal, all girls, all scenes'.

As I said earlier, don't get me wrong. I certainly have my share of anal series, and anal scenes.

As Tricia says, there is quite a bit of anal scenes and series out there. I also think it is more than just a matter of 'paying them more'.

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Maybe the problem was, I did not want to curb down the anal to get more pussy only. Maybe cutting two films is just not profitable enough. If the latter, the fairly numerous pussy-only campaigners are no real market force.

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DenverDon

Edited by - DenverDon on 8/6/2003 10:04:45 AM

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Point 2: The most vocal group cannot change the market if the that vocally demanded product cannot be sold.

Edited by - Shameless on 8/6/2003 7:31:10 PM

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"There is a war, these are the weapons"

So, in a weird kind of way, if shameless is fighting for more anal, he's got the weapons of ass destruction on his side. Sorry guys, just had to say that.
:):):):):)

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But let me just add one more thing to Denvers pricing policy remark: If pussy-only is payed curently in the US at an amproximate rate of 500-800$ and anal at 700-1000$, I suggest to pay pussy-only 400-600$ only, but rise the anal-pay-rate to 900-1200$. (In Prague it would be about 300$ for pussy-only instead of 450$ and 700$ for anal instead of 550$).
Thus pussy-only still is payed some decent sum, but trying anal means really much better payment for the girl.

For TMac: Another pricing policy would bring us a new JJ <Weapons-of-Teen -Anal-Destruction> per month.

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