Beautiful women sharing their sexuality with us ... The only way you can profit Belladonna is by purchasing one of her own DVDs produced by her company, and if you get it direct from Evil Angel she probably sees more of the cash than if you get it at a store. I do think her early scenes for Anabolic (and I remember the very first) helped get her noticed. And since she's on/off with BG scenes for herself, and since her body has changed since she was 19 ... even though she looks in amazing shape ... there's probably a solid market for those older scenes. Only now, I bet that fans are discovering her through her own movies and things like Fashionistas, and working backwards. The kind of fanbase she has is not the conventional stroker fanbase, and I suspect would be offended at the boxcover text. Although Bella has a new movie called "Butthole Whores" or something, so it's not like I suspect she's much bothered by being called a "cock monkey," or whatever .... It actually sounds kinda cute. In her way, she's trying to break out of the standard gonzo expectations ... I don't think everything she and Aiden shoot succeeds, but her more inspired efforts have vibe of positive sexuality and fun that's all too absent from most "couch porn." She's doing her thing and it's working for her. Diane Sawyer wasn't even a speed bump. Maybe Bella can get together with the Dixie Chicks. I always thought there would be a fun tranny title in there somewhere ... Dixie Chicks Meets Chicks with Dicks ... ? No? You know, I'm not even drunk right now. Scary, huh?
what skronk said also this it's who buys a shitty comp to find out if they like some one? and buy up the rest of the persons work? the people who buy a bella comp already know they like bella so the assumption she would gain new fans kinda doesn't work
I don't know. That's a bit like meeting Robert De Niro and calling him Travis. People who watch porn are supposed to be mature enough to realize that while girls like Belladonna very well might enjoy some verbal abuse and having someone slap them around in a certain context, they probably don't want people to think that's who they are 24/7. IOW - Just because she does porn and engages in a wide range of fantasy behavior doesn't mean she wants to be walking down the street and having everyone who recognizes her calling her a stupid whore. It's a role. People are supposed to get that. And while some of that may be OK for a box cover, poking fun of someone's looks on the box cover is something I highly doubt a performer would enjoy or take as a compliment.Maybe you should read what was written again. I certainly wouldn't read it as flattering in the slightest. Oh, I suppose someone should actually ask her what she thinks. But I'm guessing that even though she's a porn actress, she does actually have feelings. It doesn't mean they aren't human. There's a small chance that a certain kind of person might get off on being described that way but I kinda doubt they bothered to ask and that, I think, is what is really the problem here. They just don't care.
Edited by - randomprecision on 12/17/2007 8:18:26 AM
lmao wow... Ya know the whole reason i used to love Bella's movies was that she took the line of decent porn up off the ground,fucked it raw,and threw it 10 feet ahead. Ever since i watched the scene she did while she was preggo's tho i havent been able to watch her in a scene but i'm a fan. What 1 jackass writes on a crappy box cover isnt going to change who and what she is.If it did i would be the first to beat this guys ass.I support her by not selling crap comps like that in my store. Besides who reads a box cover anyway??? all men see is a snatch,a dick filling it, and the price and time on it. but its funny; damn well laughable, seeing everyone here on such a high moral stance. If the idiot that wrote that crap on the box cover had any faith in his product there wouldnt even be a need to write anything on the cover. but hey its porn who gives a damn...?? If you all gave a flying fuck what the world thought of you I bet ya wouldnt be making or selling porn. anyway i love bella in a nasty,kinky, horrible,perverted way,so does that make my love any less real?? lmao. Or just fricken wierd???
I don't trust men who don't like big tits. 1067 Posts 12/04
Posted - Dec 19 2007 : 3:55AM
I don't get it. How can one watch and get off on some of the stuff these chicks do or listen to some of the names the call THEMSELVES, yet get offended at the description on the box cover...BUT On the other hand I do often wonder how some of these women feel about being referred to/called the names they often are. You know like whores, sluts, bitches etc... Do they shrug it off as part of doing/being in the business? Do they agree and proudly so? Or does it hurt? I'm guessing it just depends on the women.
^^^ I've always wanted to know that, too. I have noticed that, even in my social circle, women seem to be taking back those insulting names. Words are powerful, and it's all about intent. I can call my friend a whore in jest and get laughter in response, or I can spit it at her with loathing and get socked in the mouth. I think the intention behind the AKA boxcovers is of the mouth-socking variety.
Again, context is everything. When you're sitting and watching a porn flick with your dick in your hand, and you hear someone call her a "slut" onscreen, it isn't really meant in a hateful, hurtful way. It's part of the fantasy. But some people mean it in a way that's designed to sting. It's like the difference between a snowball fight between friends and just lobbing a snowball at a random stranger on the street. They're probably gonna take it personally even if they wouldn't if they were among friends and everybody was throwing snowballs at one another. Now on a box cover, it's a little shady but what's really revealing, I think, are the comments about her teeth and so forth. It's one thing to call a movie "Gutter Whores". It's another thing to write on the back "This stupid cunt doesn't like who she is. Too bad. Oh, and I think she's ugly too". That's a bit more personal. You do a porn flick, you might expect it to be called "gutter whores". You probably don't expect the company that's selling it to be making tasteless comments about your appearance. Again, I wish she'd post her thoughts. I'm kind of surprised that porn fans would be so judgmental. If you just busted a nut watching your favorite girl, it's a little hypocritical to be calling her a "stupid whore". You're the one who has to buy porn to get off. This is one of the problems with porn. In spite of it all, people still have problems defining that line between what they see on the screen and what is real. At the end of the day, these are real people who go home and perhaps go out with friends. I'm sure that for some of them, the stigma coming from people who don't like what they do is bad enough without people who call themselves fans propagating the same stigma after they wipe up their cum and toss the tissue. And to answer your question before you ask it - Yes. When I'm sitting here beating off, it gives me a charge when they talk dirty. When I know the girl is enjoying it. But that's because I don't really think it's a negative thing at all. I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman enjoying sex for it's own sake any more than there's anything wrong with a man doing the same. Nor do I think there's anything wrong with a sexy woman using what nature gave her to make a living. We all do that. We just don't use our genitals. What is the difference between taking advantage of being sexy and attractive and desirable and taking advantage of having above average intelligence and skill at something else? None, really. People use whatever assets come naturally. Nobody asks a biochemist why he's a biochemist or looks down on him for it. But what bothers me is that I know not everyone feels the same way and those words are meant to be hurtful when they're spoken in a certain context.
Edited by - randomprecision on 12/19/2007 6:55:52 PM
No surprise to me that there is an unhealthy streak of misogyny in porn. Are gang bangs women-friendly? Paul Little a/k/a Max Hardcore? JeffMike Productions? Price of freedom is toleration of odious speech. Best suggestion might be to boycott the worst of the worst, like pencil-dick Max Hardcore.
The comments about Belladonna's looks are a bit distasteful, definitely wouldn't convince me to buy a copy. I wonder how she feels about that, I guess that's the key thing to me. If she knew that kind of thing was on the cover and took it in good humour then I suppose there's nothing to complain about. If she finds it hurtful then it's out of line.Does it make me a really bad person that I laughed out loud reading this? I know I should be disgusted, but it's all so over the top that I can't take it seriously. There's a difference between nasty comments that are really personal and a daft rant like that.
Aren't we overreacting here a bit about this incident? Judging from just a bit of hardcore-porn-surfing on the net and looking at some DVD covers, there is hardly a site/box-cover out there that doesnt uses words like: Slut - Stupid - Dumb - Whore - Cumbucket - whatever. I would expect any girl entering the biz to be aware that will be her nicknames from then on. Not that I appreciate or like those descriptions / titles, but apparently, the mayority do, otherwise companies would have started using other descriptions to boost sales (or am I overestimating marketing research in pornland here?). Perhaps I'm even worse myself. I mostly appreciate woman described and acting like godesses and still do fucking dirty and hardore things on screen as if they like it. As someone mentioned in this thread earlier I believe (dont know for sure, as I'm slightly drunk), vote with your wallet. If enough people do that, perhaps an agency arrives on the scene that will market their product on condition of certain standards of respect (assuming there indeed is a market big enough for that for them to exist).
max hardcore isnt even that bad. anyone read the Marquis De Sade's plays? they make max hardcore look tame at best.Thats why theres a rating system,if your an adult you know whats right and wrong to you,and to ban stuff cause it hurts your sense of morality is wrong. nuff said.
No. Not ban. It's not banning something for fans to speak up and let a company know they don't appreciate that kind of commentary on the back of a DVD. It doesn't mean they can't print whatever they like. Obviously, they will anyway. It's just letting them know that there are some limits to what is tasteful and what isn't even in porn. It's letting them know that we won't buy it if they keep doing it. Personally, people can say whatever they like. They can print whatever they want on the back of a box. I'm sure there are people who like that sort of thing. I can't imagine why. It wouldn't bother me as much if I knew she was OK with it. But you can never make that assumption. Especially since it doesn't appear as though she had much control over the release. Like I said, what really bugs me about it is that I think they just don't care if it bothers her or not. Obviously, I'm all for free speech. I'm a porn fan. It just isn't necessary. How many people require a woman to be personally insulted in that manner in order to be convinced to buy a porn product? Probably a very small number.
1. I think this is a case of the internet porn crowd thinking they make a larger portion of society than they do. I mean I quoted enough of that serious some saying things much worse than a gap in the teeth. I assume this means that the series wasn't a flop. I could go to JM Productions and start pulling quotes as well and they certainly aren't in any danger of going out of bussiness. So not only is this acceptable in porn, it's profitable. 2. I know I'm always the one who brings wrestling into the debate, and it's because there are a lot of parallels between the industries. Take this situation. When the back of a box mentions and I quote Melanie Jagger: Melanie Jagger can't get no satisfaction. But she tries. When cock isn't on her mind, it's in her mouth or up her pink gaping asshole. Thanks to low self esteem and a traumatic upbringing, Melanie can't feel good about herself unless every hole on her body is plugged with hard cock. Watch as she submits to the nastiest, most relentless colon-twisting, pussy-stretching fucks ever lensed... all for your approval. In a world of whores, Melanie Jagger is one of the filthiest Are we expected to think that this box is talking about Melanie Jagger the person who is someone's daughter and (hopefully) right now is going home to spend the holidays with her family? Or are we talking about the pornstar who is called a whore, slut, skank, bitch, cum dumpster on a daily basis? Getting offended by this makes about as much sense as hating some wrestler cus he made fun of your city. Or for that matter hating Hugo Weaving for killing Keanu Reeves. The only difference is that there is a clear and constant divide between Hugo Weaving and Agent Smith. Keanu Reeves isn't Neo. But Jada Fire is Jada Fire, Hillary Scott is Hillary Scott, Hulk Hogan is Hulk Hogan. Porn stars are one of two industrys where people "stay in charachter" nearly 24/7. They interview and perform and market themselves with the same ficticous persona. So my point is that should Bella's permission be needed to make fun of Bella? Is the line between performer and person so blurred that she should have a say on what is said about her on screen self? Or is this a little like us asking Hugo Weaving if it's okay to hate Agent Smith for murdering the Oracle?
Well, I guess now I see that some people really don't know the difference between a performance and the person behind it. I wouldn't recommend confronting "Hulk Hogan" on the street and seeing how badly you can piss him off. He might just laugh. You never know. Just make sure you have a good attorney and your medical insurance is paid up. No. Hugo Weaving is not Agent Smith. And there's a real person behind every porn performer. Now that's not to say that their real personality isn't exactly what you see onscreen. But that's an assumption. And it's probably wrong. When you see a woman in a porn flick, they didn't just grab a random woman on the street and mount her. They asked her to perform in their movie. It would be nice if they had the common courtesy to ask her what she thought of a given description before they just print it. Like I said, people can say whatever they like. But if people don't like what they say, they can expect to hear about it.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 20 2007 : 11:17PM
I didn't see anyone advocating banning Max Hardcore, just comments that his porn sucks, not because it is SM but because it is poorly made. To compare Max to the Marquis De Sade is pretty silly, he wrote fictional stories about torturing and murdering people, how would you film this in porn and make it look convincing? Also, 99% of porn is to turn people on, I don't know anyone, even people into SM who find De Sade's writing actually a turn on, interesting sure, a turn on, no.
What's the fun of getting old if you can't be dirty? 141 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 21 2007 : 7:39PM
BlackSix wrote:Too true, too true. I'm definitely a sadist, and I love tying girls up and abusing them (I live in a dungeon after all), but I draw the line at actual torture and murder. Hey, a pervert's gotta have his standards. Also, De Sade's writing was satirical. It was largely intended to mock the French ruling class and to show that there was very little they wouldn't stoop to for their own amusement. Max Hardcore's stuff is neither perverted nor satirical. Just really, really poorly done circus porn that makes you wanna shower after watching it. To quote Randy Quade (wow, have I really sunk so low? Yeah, I guess I have) from Quick Change, "It's bad luck just seein' a thing like that."
Ok. Maybe I shouldn't have asked. Now I'll be stuck with that image in my head for a while. I don't know how anybody can take that seriously enough to be offended by it. It's just funny.
I don't know enough about Max's real personality to have an opinion on that. Poorly done? Maybe. But if so, you're talking about most gonzo porn because most of it was (and is) heavily influenced by Max. No. They don't all dress the girls up like little girls and smear lipstick all over them but there are many elements of Max that show up in just about every gonzo flick. Max was the first one I saw doing the gagging thing to the point to where the girl's face was covered in saliva (or whatever it is). You almost can't see a gonzo flick without that now. I do believe Max was largely responsible for opening the door for a heavy influence on anal in American porn. There wasn't a lot of anal before Max. None of this is to say Max's stuff is well done. I don't know what I'd call it. I just know that the Max Hardcore character is one that I can't watch without laughing. The cowboy hat is pure comedy. In some ways, I guess you're right. The pissing thing he does is not a turn on at all. Even though I like piss play, it isn't sexy in Max's videos. Of course, it's hard to get turned on at all when you're looking at Max and wondering what the hell. He even manages to make anal unsexy. I don't think "Max Hardcore" is a real person at all. I would have to talk to the man and know him for a while to really make that judgment. But I think Max is kind of like a porn cartoon character. If you watch him and listen to the things he says when he's performing, it's impossible to believe any human being could have a personality like that. Unfortunately, he chooses to make his porn his way and that will probably be his ultimate downfall.
I think Bella simply ended up an easy target due to the Sawyer segment. This isn't a remake of "My Fair Lady", but the "is a Filthy Whore" titles in question right? Seems to me the synopsis on most covers are generally more subdued in their context, but only because nothing specifically creative came to the authors mind. Avy Scott had one of similiar merit, but I'm inclined to believe "looking into it too much." "Avy Scott is a busy little cock-monkey. She doesnt have time for such silly things as self respect and dignity. Not when there's cock to be fucked. Whether it's on a street corner for twenty bucks and a cheeseburger or at a frat party for free booze, Avy will never turn down an opportunity to have her big, pink cunthole stretched. In fact, Avy won't be happy until her colon is as twisted as her dirty little mind. Avy Scott is, and always will be, one fucking filthy whore!"[i/] Edited by - Endless Loop on 12/22/2007 3:10:46 AM
What's the fun of getting old if you can't be dirty? 141 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 22 2007 : 4:06AM
The fact is you're absolutely right. For a long time, Max Hardcore was simply a character Paul Little (and I feel comfortable using his real name because it's been widely distributed in various court cases, so no secret there) played in movies. In fact, the birth of Max dates back to a take on The Hitcher called The Hitchhiker that Max directed for Chuck Zane sometime in the early 90s. Back then, his stage name was Max Steiner, and Max Hardcore was a character in the Hitchhiker series; a character intended to be incredibly creepy and unnerving. However, in the intervening years, he began "playing" that character more and more offscreen, and now I'm not convinced there's a Paul Little left anymore. I certainly don't know the man well, but we've met and talked on several occasions, and I know I've never had a conversation with Paul; only with Max.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 22 2007 : 4:33AM
I would guess that Max didn't do anything that wasn't already being done in European porn, I guess he gets the 'credit' for doing it first, but just because you do it first doesn't mean you do it well.
I guess that makes sense. I mean, I do think that you'd have to get off on something at least to some extent to do it for as long as Max has been doing it. I suppose it's possible that he now doesn't know where Max ends and Paul begins. Whatever the case, as much flack as the guy takes, he's certainly one of the more interesting porn characters. Love him or hate him, he's there. And was there. I think his influence is undeniable. Whatever you think of that.
yes it is.if you had read the entire thread you would have known that. i think if you people dont like what was written about bella dont buy it. i mean cripes get over it already. Edited by - nerdgod on 12/22/2007 3:17:51 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 22 2007 : 9:47PM
I'm sorry Nerdgod, I've read the entire thread and your response still barely makes any sense to me. Are you saying that the things you list are the filmed equivalent to De Sade's writing? Snuff films = unicorns. They don't exist, there isn't a single documented case outside of serial killers videotaping themselves (Bernardo and a duo whose names escape me), and those videos were never distributed, commercially or otherwise. De Sade's writing goes beyond bestiality videos and even kiddie porn, he is describing torturing, cutting up and killing people while raping them, there may be a incredibly small portion of the public who would get off on that, but I've never met them, and I know people in the S/M community who are not shy about these kinds of things. Edited by - BlackSix on 12/22/2007 10:01:27 PM
no im sorry black6. my whole point is theres alot worse in the world than what was said about bella . free speech is a double edge sword. you must take the good with the bad.I thought people who work in porn understood that.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 24 2007 : 6:15AM
I getcha now Nerdgod, I don't think it was the usual porn slurs that were bothering most people, it was the singling out the space between her teeth (which I love) and picking on her personally (by mentioning the statements she did on the TV segment) that seemed to push it over the line, but it isn't like we're talking about one of the better companies in porn, right?
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JET 7 Bye Again
3 Posts 12/07
Posted - Dec 27 2007 : 7:16PM
i am crazy. i am crazy. i am crazy. i am crazy. Edited by - steph on 12/27/2007 8:44:21 PM
Ok. Maybe I shouldn't have asked. Now I'll be stuck with that image in my head for a while. I don't know how anybody can take that seriously enough to be offended by it. It's just funny.