"She described havign her tits grabbed, her ass pinched and the general feeling that the girls need heightened security at the shows.
She even went on to say that she's making suggestions to Wicked's owner Steven Orenstein about the designing of a new trade show booth that would put some space between the girls and the fans. "
"Now that so much promotional material labels them as whores/sluts or the more endearing “cum-buckets” or “cock-sockets”, should we be surprised that fans believe they get to cop-a-feel while posing for that shot?
The internet has also given the consumer an unprecedented intimacy with the performers. Why would he think that his favorite slut who advertises her services on scores of escort sites and performs triple-penetrations on screen should be freaked out because he grabbed her ass?
We have given the fans a mixed message."
Did anyone notice this at the show? How do you feel about Christian Mann's, Julia Ann's comments or the situation in general?
I've noticed that a lot. While fans might deserve some benefit of the doubt as far as mixed messages -- some of the women are aggressive themselves -- I think a lot of boorish behavior was on display.
In any group of thousands of people, clearly there are going to be a great number of assholes.
I don't blame Julia Ann at all. For one thing, she doesn't work for a company that advertises the talent as cumbuckets. And I've never thought that porn stars deserve any less respect of their personal space than anyone else. But what the fuck do I know.
Just downright depressing. People can be so fuckin' stupid. I've been witness to rude fans. It happens. I've seen it. The problem is that it doesn't take very many morons before the stars put up more walls and paint us all with the same brush.
I'm with Obibong. I don't go to AEE in order to grab tits or squeeze ass. They get enough of that already. I'd say I'm even MORE careful about that around the girls at the AEE than I am in my private life.
I wish people weren't so damn stupid. It's this kind of thing that makes me question why I go to AEE, or to strip clubs for that matter, because I don't want to be associated with guys who don't have enough respect for the girls to keep their fuckin' hands to themselves.
To quote Stan Marsh: "Dude, that's up fucked up right there!" (And to clarify myself, I mean in regard to the bad manners of some people...just because a girl is a pornstar it does NOT give anyone she doesn't know and/or doesn't initiate things with first carte blanche to grab her goodies...and to clarify myself again, I use the term "goodies" with all due respect and reverence which said goodies deserve!) Peace. Wolf
I saw a little of that the time I went, and that was on the first day. I can only imagine how bad Saturday must have been.
Like Mike, I was very conscious of the difference between the person I was meeting and the screen performer I 'knew.' It was somewhat awkward, really, because the degree of intimacy one feels at seeing a woman naked and intimate clashes with the fact that one really doesn't know anything about her.
I didn't see anything like that there but like ObiBong said, in a crowd that size there are bound to be a bunch of jerks. It would never cross my mind to try to cop a feel while taking a picture with someone (although Nina Hartley did insist upon me holding her butt when I got a picture with her - but then she felt up Mrs. RT to see if they were real so I guess it all balances out ). I was just delighted to have a chance to talk to various beautiful women who's work we've enjoyed for years.
It's sad that some people feel that manners aren't needed.
sad story... when i met julia ann i was too overwhelmed to even think of being a jackass!
while i think that some girls don't mind the fans coping a feel I would never do it unless she placed my hands on her or told me how to pose with her...
at the JKP booth they had bodyguards - I was posing for a pic with Nikki Benz, who is actually a friend of mine, and my arm was around her and my hand was resting on the top of her ass and the bodyguard literally came up to us and moved my hand up to her lower back...
then again, christie lee made up for it by grabbing my balls
"It was somewhat awkward, really, because the degree of intimacy one feels at seeing a woman naked and intimate clashes with the fact that one really doesn't know anything about her."
And, that my friend, is the heart of the problem. In addition to the mixed messages (she fucks on screen for money and she escorts but here she is not wanting to be touched at all?), some people are aware of the difference between the performer and the person and some aren't. Some make that distinction and some don't. Objectiva-what?
Me? I've never been nor have I ever met a porn star in person, so I can make no further comment. All I can say is that in the presence of most of the girls I would want to meet I would probably go all quiet and just be in awe (star struck), "Holy crap! That's [insert name here]...right in front of me! Wow!" To paraphrase Mike's phrase, I would be too overwhelmed to even think about being rude, crass, or brutish.
It should be interesting to see what the performers have to say on this matter and if any or how many of them share Julia Ann's concern.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Jan 27 2005 : 12:20AM
I'm not sure if it was any worse this year - because years when I was still signing, there would be at least a couple each year who would be WAY to grabby for my comfort level.
I have no problems with a guy giving a bearhug or whatever, but grabbing tits and squeezing, or slipping a hand a little too much between the butt cheeks is a little too much. I think most porn girls realize that just because some guys are assholes (and those guys aren't necessarily even the porn fans - a lot of them probably couldn't have named the girls they were grabbing), it doesn't mean that all guys are. I do remember one guy one time who was taking a picture with me, and he reached out and pulled my shirt to the side and kissed my boob and grabbed it. I slapped him, and he looked at me like I was the rude one. I called for security and had him kicked out of the show. That one ruined the rest of the day for me. Ones where guys would try to grab, it would usually put me in a bad mood for a couple of minutes, but invariably, there would be some really sweet guy come around and be able to name about a dozen movies of mine that he liked, and it was impossible to stay in a bad mood.
But yes, I think it is the bad experiences that make some companies put girls in less accessible areas.
I think what happens is John Doe goes to take a picture with Rebecca Love, Sunset Thomas, Ava Devine, girls who allow you to touch them. Then take a picture with Shay Sweet who is on the opposite end of the feel spectrum and try to grab her boob while posing with her. She put the guy in check. (I saw that happen in 2004)
Their rationale is "if one girl let me touch her boobs, I'll try it with all of them."
Side note: I asked to take a picture of Ava Devine, not with and she reached over and grabbed my package. Next year I'm showing up with a bodyguard.
It's funny you should cite Ava Devine as an example of one of the girls who let you take certain liberties or actually invite you to do such. The past two years she has been REALLY wild! I was really shocked last year when, trying to be a perfect gentlemen, I put my hand around her waist. She says (in front of my wife), "Wanna grab/feel my boob?" Before I can even answer, she had grabbed my free hand, put it on her tit and squeezed as my wife snapped the pic. Crazy. This year, she was even more insane.
I actually sat at Sunset Thomas' table during the awards show this year. Had I known she was how you describe, I would've sat closer.
Reading what I wrote above, I should add that it obviously shouldn't matter even if Julia Ann did work for one of the crasser companies. The performers signing for them deserve the same respect.
Perhaps a reasonably visible sign spelling out a hands-off policy would be enough to do the trick. The ladies who are more comfortable with the contact could still initiate it, which is the way it should be anyway.
Hi everyone, It's Julia Ann. I want to clarify my statements. I've been signing at these shows since 1993 and when I started the attendance wasn't nearly what it is now. In fact, back then we didn't need a hall of our own for the show, we were simply pushed to the back of the CES convention. I thank you all for noticing what I noticed this year. Yes there is a different level of enthusiasm, but under no circumstances do I give the smallest amount of blame to the girls in the industry that care to do more than I do with the fans. I support them whole heartedly to have their butts and tits grabbed to their limits. That being said I think that the cluster fuck that I experienced this year was in part due to a population that has had the porn industry shoved in their face so quickly by a mainstream marked hoping to get a share of us, that they haven't had a chance to except what they feel about not only my sexuality but their very own as well. In my humble opinion, one person experiencing that kind of sexual conflict is hard enough, now try 30,000 people feeling it in a four day period. The collective energy was overwhelming. We have taught them to see us, buy us and experience us, but not respect us. How can they? They haven't been taught to accept their own sexuality how can we expect them to respect ours? Growing pain are just that, painful. In many ways sex is feared today as so was race not to long ago. When a population is thrown into a rapid change in philosophy it can take time for it's views to change. We as porn actors are representative of that change. I love the fans and love signings, anyone who knows me knows that, but the space I've been referring to is simple to make the booths better designed to handle longer lines. I would like to be able to focus on one fan at a time, instead of being pulled in four different directions. It's hard and unfair to everyone the way it is now. Again I don't blame the girls who do more. Each individual patron needs to take responsibilities for his or her actions.
I'm sorry to hear about what happened to you at the show. You should never be made to feel unsafe at an event like that.
If some girls want to get a little closer then that's fine, but male fans should always let the lady lead the way, so it's clearly her choice what happens.
I hope they have better arrangements for your security next year.
That was very well put Julia Ann. I also totally agree with ObiBong. Especially after the Ashley Blue mishap last year, there needs to be boundaries. I saw some crazy stuff this year as a fan attending the AEE and a lot of fans "out of line" with the stars. I experienced an incident with Krystal Steal telling a fan twice to stop grabbing her and then having to call over her bodyguard. As a true fan (such as anyone posting on this site, I assume) I am also offended when the people in line behind spell out the crude things they plan to do to the stars and then freely admit "I don't know anyone but Jenna" A few bad apples ARE spoiling the bunch and I certainly don't want these idiots scaring my favorite stars away.
Part of the problem is with the layout of the floor. For some reason, all of the big studios are pushed to the front. Therefore causing alot of congestion in that part of the hall. If the large booths were evenly distributed throughout, this would help with the congestion. The isles need to be wider as well.
I can't say I saw any overtly bad behavior aimed at the girls, but I did come close to decking a couple of pure jackass jarhead fans, who clearly weren't even "fans" but inbred yokel yahoos, just braying and caterwauling like a bunch of frickin' mules, on the way out one afternoon. I think maybe the girls at the bigger displays got it worse. What I find is so cool, is that if you take five seconds to just chat and say hello and treat anyone with the respect and consideration you would even give a stranger on the bus , you will get 10 times that in return, and, yes, even have your johnson greeted! I had a fantastic time, and the real genuine affection I felt from some girls, even those I had never met before, was warm and intense and fun. What Julia said is true though: How can a lot of these guys have respect and maturity about the girls' sexuality when they don't even understand or accept their own? Sad but true thought.
Part of the problem is just having that many guys in one place, some there to get rowdy. I've been told that in bars and crowds some guys will reach out from the anonymity of the crowd to cop a feel. Why I never figured out. I mean yes, I know what they want, but it seems like a lame-ass way to get there. From what I have read, there were few orderly lines. Some bouncers and those rope thingies they use in banks and airports would do wonders to add some order. Then again, porn draws many 'fans' that have a love/hate thing about women. Unfortunately porn stars exemplify what they simultaneously love and fear/hate about women/sexuality.
I can't imagine being star-struck as some describe, I've never bought into the star-worship thing (in music, politics, writing, what have you). At the same time, I cannot imagine treating a porn star as less than a person (unless they prove themselves rude, but that goes for everybody).
This thread reminds me of why the only reason I would have wanted to do was for the ADT party and not the show.
God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer 1726 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jan 27 2005 : 8:35AM
I have seen this as well, and this is a good reason I get mainly solo pics. There are a few girls my wife and I got pics with - some would like their leg up and I would hold it, some would just stand close and I would put my arm around their lower back. I don't want any of these girls feeling out of place with me, I have far too much respect for women to resort to these antics. I think it may be a good idea to have a body guard per boot, that way if fans get too stupid they can be put back in their place.
It's a shame this has happend - even if only one girl felt this way (which is not what I'm saying, just making a point).
I only had one fan out of all of get annoying. I never at any point felt unsafe or put out, of course im more on the ava end of the spectrum.
I had a great time and loved the attention, however maybe it would be more fun if all the porn chicks had tazars (sp?) can you imagine, i bet more porn chicks would fire on each other than fans.
I had a few fans cop a feel. I wasn't too worried about the ass grabbing for photos... but there was one fan who attempted to take it a bit further and actually had the audacity to put his hand on my pussy. It shocked me a bit that someone would do that without asking. I just pushed his hand away and he respected it. I'm also one of those that had no problem groping the fans myself, but there is a point you can't cross. Another asked if he could grab my tits, but before I could respond had already put his hands on them. I pulled away and told him no. I just think that if they're going to grope you, they should atleast have the common courtesy to ask first.
First off, Welcome to Adult DVD Talk, Julia! It's great to have stars as classy and eloquent as you around here.
Yep, seen it and I'm not surprised that it was worse this year seeing the progression between 03 and 04. Heck, I had a guy threaten to start a fight with me on the floor last year when we grabbed a shirt at the same time! The loss of basic manners is bad enough in society in a 1 on 1 level, let alone when you get into the mod scene the show turns into at times. Yes, there are a few girls that encourage more touching (some even refused to be photographed unless there was a hand on the boob or crotch), but they should be the ones to initiate it ! Sadly, there's just too many people who aren't able to distinguish the fantasy of what's on tv from reality any more.
"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling
I can't stop imagining me with some guy falling over quietly while i try my best to look innocent, next! hahaha i so think this is a good idea, and it would keep every one in check!
I don't know how widespread it was, but there were a few ass and boob grabbers at the ZT/3rd booth this year. By in large I thought the fans were respectful 1-on-1 with the girls but you're always going to have guys taking creative license to touch whatever they want.
There were a ton of fans at the show and it can be overwhelming at times for exhibitors and talent, but by in large I thought it was a very smooth operation.
Just my 2 cents, But I agree with most of the people on here that there needs to be a certain level of respect for the ladies, and the contact should be initiated by the ladies IMHO. I've never been to a show like the AEE, nor have I ever met one of the ladies, but it would be a shame for those that do get that chance, get that chance taken away because of the percentage of the population that has lime jello for brains.
And Im in the dark with the lovey Kami, about what happened to Ashley Blue last year. Please bring me up to speed if yall don't mind.
First of all, I wonder if some of the same assholes/jerks (who would probably be arrested if they walked up and grabbed a female in non-porn settings) went from booth to booth misbehaving, thus possibly making us think it was VERY widespread when it might have been only a small number of same jerks hitting as many booths as they could?
I worry that some fans seeing videos that mistreat woman mistakenly think that what they saw depicted (as fantasy/acting/etc) makes it alright for them to misbehave when they see the real life actresses??? These fans either can't understand reality versus acting, or would rather ignore it and use what the girls allowed to happen to them in the video as their excuse to try to cop feels? Perhaps those (producers/directors/companies/etc/??) who show women in their videos being dis-respected need to take some blame here????? I still can't believe some of the behaviors shown in some videos----it certainly "ain't" sensuous!!!
Like Kami and thebigshow 03 could somebody please tell us what happened to Ashley last year.
As for grabbing - it's simple and it's plain - sexual assault. No touching unless invited, as I was at 'Erotica 2004' show in London a couple of months ago when I had my photo taken with a topless Trinity(dark haired) who put MY hand on her breast just before it was taken. Nice girl and extremely charming!
I believe I recall reading about the incident. Some fuckface either attempted or succeeded in inserting a finger into her. I don't recall what happened to him as a result.
Many thanks for clarifying the situation ObiBong. I'm sure everybody would join me in condemning such behaviour but at the same time remembering that the VAST majority of us respect these gorgeous ladies in this fine profession!
i didn't have any problems with guys grabbing at me. the only problem i had was one guy standing at my booth for half the day asking me to marry him. he told me that if i married him i wouldn't have to work again. finally i told him "thanks but i have plenty of my own money. and did it ever occur to you that i actually love doing what i do? so.. fuck off" then he told me he didn't like me anymore. oh well
ox christie lee
ps:Pornmaster Mike, do you have that pic of me grabbing your balls?? haha
In the interest of having my quote in context, I'm posting below my entire comment about Julia Ann's initial remarks:
I’m not at all surprised about this. I think the transition from “I can get an autograph…” to “I can pose for a photo…” to “I can grope her while posing…” is as much the result of the performers’ not-so-gradual erasing of boundaries, and the exhibitors blurring of image vs. reality, as it is the fans increasing avarice. While there have always been those guys who tried to go too far, the majority of the exhibitors used to make clear what the rules were, and the fans respectfully obliged. Of course, in those days, the perception was that the women were actresses or at least performers. Now that so much promotional material labels them as whores/sluts or the more endearing “cum-buckets” or “cock-sockets”, should we be surprised that fans believe they get to cop-a-feel while posing for that shot? The internet has also given the consumer an unprecedented intimacy with the performers. Why would he think that his favorite slut who advertises her services on scores of escort sites and performs triple-penetrations on screen should be freaked out because he grabbed her ass? Julia Ann should note that the aggressive fan probably came from another booth that looks and sounds more like a strip club than a video manufacturer and features girls giving lap dances and spreading their pussies so fans can finger them. We have given the fans a mixed message. On the one hand we tell them the girls are willing sluts who enjoy any activity and that they are attainable by anyone willing to pay. Certain performers then prove it by giving samples and solicitations for after-hours activity. Meanwhile we bemoan the fans’ newfound aggression and wonder why Jenna’s bodyguards wear t-shirts emblazoned with death threats to anyone who touches their charge. AEE now has the unenviable task of reining this back or losing all control. We should not delude ourselves… the record fan attendance (and increased revenue) must be linked to the fan’s realization that a visit to the porn convention offers a lot more than it used to. The long lines at the amusement park are for the gravity defying rollercoaster, not the merry-go-round. As they said when the doughboys returned home after World War I: “How will we get them back on the farm after they’ve seen Paris?”
Posted - Jan 26 2005 : 9:59PM
