In my view is a prostitute (male or female) the one who sells his body to someone else who pays in orded to gain money or advantages , a secretary fucking his big boss to get promotions or power is no less a prostitute than a street corner's official one Same for a mainstream actress/actor who wants to get a role over another sometimes better qualified.
What a pornstar do then? She/he got paid to have sex with a another paid pornstar. They're both (or more than 2 it doesn't matter)paid to have sex with each other, who's the customer then? Someone who buy a DVD? Wait a minute what is the difference between a mainstream actress acting and faking sex on video and a pornstar acting and faking sex on video? (hope no one here is so naive to believe that the performers aren't acting but having real sex) The only difference is on how much they put the acting in porno, try to imagine a porn scene without view and close up on the genitals again is there any difference between that and a mainstream movie?
However it's borderline since some pornstars escort and that is hardly different from prostitution
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 2/18/2007 5:44:38 AM
I might agree but a stripper is also a sex-worker but in a very different way.
Anyway if it was on me prostitution would be legal , it is a regular job in my view
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married_lucky Deactivated User
202 Posts 11/06
Posted - Feb 18 2007 : 1:43PM
Technically a pure stripper/nude dancer is not a sex worker.
What exotic dancers are selling is sexuality, there's a difference between sex and sexuality...
Sexuality already belongs to all of us and is on display in one form or another all around us...it like flirting only more intense
Sex belongs to the individual and is connected to personhood. No one has ever bought pussy without buying the whole person first, and then using their personhood for their own or others sexual gratification for cash compensation.
I'm alright with the term "sex worker" for those that sell their personhood for money or trade.
A sex-worker is a person warking in matter of sex , I'm not convinced there's people paying up to five times the price for a drink in a strip club if this has nothing to do with sex. It's not sexuality that is a general belonging like Human sexuality or Masculine sexuality , but a man sitting at a strip club is paying for his own sexuality is paying to get sexual excitement and this has to do with sex. Same for Playboy are you one of those who buy that magazine for their interviews?
Plus your logic is flaw since it contains its answer in its premise you say that are sex-workers all those who SELL their personhood for money and putting this premise the answer if a pornstar is a prostitute is already answered , you also, just to stay on the safe side, putin another point in which no one can sell a part of his body without selling the whole personhood . I disagree a pornstar is not selling anything she dealt for a performance and so did the other performer. She's paid to DO something she's not selling anything as said it's a job. It's not different from a guy paid to beat a ball with a bat he's paid (way too much) to do something to entertain a public and this is exactly the same a pornstar does.
Imagine a photosession performers naked the male wanking all the time to maintain erection even when talking to the director then they go in the scene the man lies on the ground the girl is on top first click , then the director says STOP no no no try reverse cowgirl and have your hair off your face ok stop like this CLIK CLIK CLIK ok now put it in, but slowly and the top only CLIK CLIK CLIK ok now put it halfway YESSS like this CLIK CLIK CLIK , ok NO STOP WHO THE HELL moved that light? WTF OK pause now have a coffee will continue later , where's the enema? c'mon let's go we have to take some photos of an anal where's that fucking enema ? I can continue longtime.
I can hardly call this selling a personhood I call this PERFORMING , I call this WORKING it's a job.
By the way making a movie is pretty much the same thing with people movin all around and someone with a camera ten inches from your dick/pussy. I don't know your habits when having sex but for me this would be pretty uncomfortable not to mention all that people walking around or hearing some people doing the same in a set nearby in the garden
EDIT Sex is involved in porn of course but only for the buyers of the show ,those acting on the scene are not really having sex they're acting they're only performing as such
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 2/18/2007 5:41:47 PM
You want a toe? I can get you a toe 1131 Posts 4/06
Posted - Feb 19 2007 : 1:05AM
Pornstars get paid to have sex with people they otherwise wouldn't have sex with.
So of course they are prostitutes but is that really such a big deal or so offensive to be labeled as such?
To me porn sells itself more through the fantasy of normal girls doing these acts for fun rather than a prostitute turning tricks to feed herself.
Thats not really the fault of the girls(or the companies who are just selling what people want to buy) as much as it is the people who buy the product i guess we want to be tricked into thinking porn is somehow a class above and more spontaneous but it's not it's people performing sex acts for money so that others who are paying can be sexually aroused.
If your technical definition of "prostitute" is anyone who gets paid for having sex with some else, regardless of any specifics of context (including whether that someone else is also getting paid to have sex with that anyone), then of course you're technically right -- but only by virtue of the definition you've imposed.
That doesn't shed much light on ANYTHING, because it's purely tautological reasoning.
Life is in the details.
P.S. -- Just to be clear, I think "escorting" (a less ugly word, historically) can be as honorable an endeavor as any, depending, as with most other things, on how the individual escort conducts themselves with their clients.
If they aren't then... many of them turn that way when performing on screen doesn't provide the money it once did.Think to the Teri Wiegel,Lisa Lipps,Kathy Willets,Holly Body,Olivia,Mimi Miyagi...just to name a few.You can all f... them,if you have the money.
Is it ok to call a porn star a whore? Probably some like it, some don't mind, and some don't want to be called a whore. I recall Hillary Scott calling herself an ass whore or anal whore in her adultdvdtalk podcast interview.
Any consensus on the propriety of calling the performers whores ?? They definitely meet the definition: performing sex acts in exchange for money. I don't think the addition of a camera changes it.
okay... well, "Female performers technically prostitutes?" it's a bad question. because We are all prostitutes. if you have a work, your boss pays you for an act of your body. maybe you don't have a real cock in your ass. but you are also sodomized by the material life.
well, it's really funny. whores like us have to work for money all day for watching at night other whores being fucked on our precious LCD screen. we are all funny.
When I buy porn, I am effectively paying people to have sex for my enjoyment. This is different to paying people to have sex *with* me for my enjoyment.
When a pornstar performs, he or she is being paid to have sex for some unknown people's enjoyment. This is different to being paid to have sex *with* unknown people for their enjoyment.
The only question need be, how big do you think the difference is?
To me, pornstars are sex workers, which is a broad category encompassing prostitutes, but they are not prostitutes. Unless they try that business too. Which is fine by me.
And no, being a prostitute doesn't mean 'having sex with anyone who's got the money'. Not in a well run brothel, anyway, or with a prostitute who can look after herself. Turn up plastered and you'll soon find out. All professionals reserve the right to refuse service.
One hopes that the point of this thread is NOT the age-old male obsession with seeing women as either madonnas or prostitutes. One would think that a forum dedicated to erotica would be above and beyond this type of useless dichotomy. But to try to answer the question, as a general rule it would seem that one who performs in an erotic video is not a prostitute, but an erotic performer performing with other erotic performers.
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married_lucky Deactivated User
202 Posts 11/06
Posted - Feb 20 2007 : 1:40PM
I wonder why Max Hardcore doesn't get the girls to say "Look mom I'm an erotic performer."
Max Hardcore's niche in porn is to degrade the women performers and get them to degrade themselves, and to cite him as representative of erotica as a whole is biased and one-sided. You have every right to dislike porn, and frankly some aspects of the industry are IMO abusive toward the women performers, but there is no reason to tar everyone with the brush of a few guys who seek to profit from the misogyny of some male porn viewers.
Edited by - elgringoviejo58 on 2/21/2007 9:29:04 AM
Why get hung up on labels in the first place? Why do we love a conspiracy theory so much? Sometimes a banana is just a banana. Feminist, misogynist, drink my piss, whatever.
Here's the basic difference for me, and as always I only speak for myself - my basic prostitute isn't the sexual athlete that my favorite porn performers are. Some porn chicks actually look like they've been ripped straight from my personal sexual fantasies, and act like they like getting it the way I want to see them getting it, whether they "really" like it or not. And I'm willing to pay a hell of a lot less money for the privilege of seeing them do it. Whatever that says about my psychology, theirs, society at large, the industry, the nation, the world, the human condition - I don't care.
Thanks, Jake. Thanks, Rocco. Thanks, Manuel, Chico, Mike, Joey, Buttman. Thanks again. From the heart of my bottom, guys, really.
To get what I want from a prostitute, I'd be out thousands and I'd not only have to boil her first but I'd have to answer to my wife or my conscience or both.
Porn's a lot less complicated.
If you mean in general - not much difference, except porn chicks give better performances especially when certain guys and directors get hold of them, or they have the right chemical balance, or they're in the right mood, or all of the above.
It's very simple, but very complicated.
If you want to talk about the whys - that's another can of worms, and I'm sure it'll go on for many pages. Make money quickly, laziness, horniness, not enough attention growing up, psychological issues, too much attention growing up, exhibitionism, voyeurism, dominance, submission, gender equality, patriarchy, "the man", the Church, societal conundrums - bleah. Who gives a rat's ass?
Fucking's a primal urge and it's the reason we'll survive past the roaches and sharks, once we figure out how to get off the planet and terraform others. Cylons be damned. Porn is but an essential oil lubing the cogs in the gears of the human sex machine. Live it. Love it. Don't question it or you're thinking too much.
Ofcourse they're prostitutes, just a different enviornment, and regardless of what people call it i.e. erotic performer, exotic entertainer etc, it's still being a hooker. Hiding under false indentities just prooves the shame and guilt of it all.
Oh this is good! Since when did the adult industry hide anything? Last time I checked, they still had names for web sites like "exploited teens" and movies named "Sperm sucking whores".
Now compare this to the job you probably go to every day. It probably has a title that has nothing to do with smearing your nose all in the boss's asscrack (for relatively little money, I might add)......even though that's essentially what 90% of American jobs are.
Using stage names is an attempt to avoid stalkers and the guilt and shame imposed by a puritanical society. This board is about erotica, and most posters are dudes who watch erotica, so IMO the least we can do is show some basic respect and decency to the performers of the erotica that we demand and enjoy.
Hmmph. Well, my "boil her first" comment comes from Ken asking Beaner on the wacky morning show one morning if he'd do Carmen Electra, and he said "definitely, but I'd have to boil her first." That still makes me grin.
And I'm not above giving credit for my jokes where credit is due. Thanks, Beaner.
I think a lot of the tension in this argument comes from the failure to recognize that whenever a word -- such as "prostitute" -- is defined, something essential is lost. Consider the word "bachelor". Is a bachelor an unmarried man? Sure. But what about the pope? Is he a bachelor? By the definition, yes, but that just demonstrates the inadequacy of the definition. When we think bachelor, we think a life, a narrative, that matches the word and "pope" doesn't fit.
So too with "prostitute." Is a prostitute someone who has sex for money? Sort of. But we all know that we associate more with the word, a narrative again, than is contained in the terse definitioin. That's why a street-corner hooker is really a more prostituty prostitute than a porn star. That's also why I think the term "whore", which was once a synonym for prostitute, has been reclaimed and now has different meanings. Hillary Scott can claim to be a whore, (as do many prominent porn girls) with a certain amount of irony and, not insignificantly, a certain amount of pride because of what she does for a living and how well that she might not be able to do if she worked a street corner.
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married_lucky Deactivated User
202 Posts 11/06
Posted - Feb 21 2007 : 8:18PM
Your average street corner whore does not do the extreme unprotected sexual acts as your average gonzo pornstar does ...not even close.
I doubt you could get the average street whore to do 15 guys at a time with ass-to-mouth-merry-go-rounds on film. No condoms.
Way to completely miss the point, dude. Been taking lessons from the White House, have you?
Stay On Point! Stay On Point! Stay On Point!
Yeah, whatever.
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tittysucker86 Deactivated User
florida 218 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 21 2007 : 8:29PM
Im repeating some of what is already said in this thread, but porn is a controlled environment. porn is a corporate environment. Contract girls. The male performers are used over and over again. its a closed pool of people that are repeatedly used. Then theres gonzo porn. Gonzo contradicts the theory that porn is not prostitution. Gonzo is low-budget porn produced by any loser in a garage someplace on a budget paid for by selling his record collection. and then he burns the DVDs on his computer. The computer age gave way to the gonzo porn age where any asshole can start a porn company with equipment from office depot, and hire every airhead blonde fresh out of high school, like the NFL draft, only an annual porn draft. Im being sarcastic but you get the point. But reputable Gonzo companies will do the aids tests, and keep records, and ask for Identification from the girls, and the guys. BUT: if you listen to Glenn Beck on the radio, well, bada-bing, Glenn is the perfect example of the whacko religious extremist rightwing asshole who insists porn is prostitution. Its not prostitution, but the rightwingers want you to think it is. you know the old saying; whatever floats your boat, but the whacko conservative rightwingers want to dictate to you when and where you can stick your dick. Dont you have a moral responsibility to not patronize the porn companies, Glenn Beck asks. I say: NO!!!! theres the whole conservative argument of women being treated as pieces of meat. Yes sexy women are pieces of meat. that doesnt mean they cant be doctors and lawyers. I watch porn!!! your daughter wants to be a banker? I dont own a friggin bank!!! I dont work for a friggin bank if your daughter is hot and wants to fuck on camera, Ill rent her DVD!!!!!! And the girls in porn, sometimes, maybe a lot of time, actually enjoy the sex, but thats an offensive notion to a whacko like glenn beck.
I look at it like baseball...at the top are the big leagues, the pornstars, the cream of the prostitution crop... all the way down to the sucky fucky 5 dolla whores.
People try to redefine prostitution to obfuscate the (stupid)law rather than change or speak to the issue of changing the law, but then it would be harder to fool young girls into thinking and saying "I'm a performance artist".
Edited by - married_lucky on 2/21/2007 11:46:22 PM
