I did a search and couldn't find a thread about feminist porn here, so I created this one going into unchartered territory. Not sure what kind of a reaction it will get. Are you familiar with feminist porn and what do you think? From what I learned, it's more gentle, sensual, erotic, etc. than porn typically is. Plus, intriguing plotlines. In the 2 feminist porn videos I saw, I remember the plotline more than the sex. It was about a woman played by the late Missy who develops a voyeurism fetish while also focusing on her personal life in terms of relationships and career. Plus, the mystery of the house where she was staying with the telescope. One is a sequel of the other. called "Eyes of Desire." After seeing part 2 first and it grabbed my interest, I watched part 1. Feminist porn also doesn't center so much around the "money shot" and there might not be facials in the scene or her tasting his cum.
While I generally write from a performer's perspective instead of a viewer's, I actually enjoyed this more than general porn that gets boring- maybe because it's the same old stuff and I don't get especially turned on watching lots of spit or fluids or extremely close penetration angles- though I had nothing against doing it when performing. Plus I have no problem with condoms or lube and don't get turned off when seeing this, though I don't know how common this is in feminist porn since I haven't watched much.
Feminist porn has been called more female and couple-centered. Yet, I don't wish to essentialize and say women all enjoy the slow, sensual stuff; plus some men or people regardless of gender may enjoy this. Maybe I conform to the stereotype in this sense. There also as far as I know isn't double anal, anal creampies, and so on in feminist porn, which to me is a plus. Not sure if there's much anal at all. Seems to be much more foreplay than in general porn. I also like the gentleness or at least an emphasis on consent and respecting boundaries. Though I haven't seen it, I heard of a feminist porn video called "Rough Sex" and somebody mentioned how they show the performers communicating about what they're interested in before the sex scene.
One of the companies in this genre is Femme Productions founded by the late Candida Royalle who was also a performer. Of course, with the Internet age, performers can create this type of porn on their own if they have basic technology. I wondered if feminist porn is just another term for soft core porn, but I think of soft core as having no sexual intercourse like Playboy pictures, whereas feminist porn includes intercourse but doesn't necessarily center around this.
Thoughts? Do you have any favorite feminist porn videos?
I guess we could say what the performers put out on the creator platforms is feminist.
As far as sensuality and eroticism: I only watch GG, but as far as that genre goes, I can say the sensual and erotic content is dead and dying. With the exception of about 4 pornhub couples lol, GG videos that look like sex are few and far between.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Mar 19 2023 : 11:58AM
Cool, we're back I've never seen this thread and I love "so-called" feminist porn or as I like to call it "porn". I still believe feminist porn is just a marketing term used by studios just like "gonzo" or "IR" because nobody has had a clear definition of the term. I would also say "feminist" porn could also be any porn that's directed or produced by women. But then you wouldn't be able to include all the wonderful male producers and directors who fit the idea of feminist porn as Tessa has described for the term. Which I agree with. I believe Candida Royalle coined the term but I think it picked up many different definitions over the years. Anyway, Here's a list of feminist porn studios and directors I like or think is feminist porn: Adult Time - or specifically director Bree mills her style of directing is more focused on storytelling with some eroticism. Her movie "Teenage Lesibian" is autobiographical, telling the story of Bree coming out during her senior year of high school
Lust Cinema and XConfessions both owned by female director/producer Erika Lust and most of the directors are women. They have one of the best directors in porn with Casey Calvert who just won best director at the XBiz awards for her movie "Going Up"
Hardwerk - Like Tessa said, not all women are into the more "softcore" porn(i hate the use of the word "softcore" in the porn industry ) and that's why female producer/director Paulita Pappel created a "queer feminist " gangbang site. Yes, Gangbangs can be feminists. The scenes are shot with a feminist "gaze" where the men are giving all their attention to the woman. It's very erotic
Joybear - is produced and owned by a man Justin Santos but his films are focused more on the eroticism and the passion of the performers. No "gonzo' shit here
Bellesa - it's mainstream like AdultTime but produced and directed by Jacky St James.
Thanks for the info. and I wasn't familiar with the people or videos you mentioned. Perhaps you found out about this thread because the cyber attack deleted some other threads and moved this one further to the top of the page again. I don't consider all porn produced or directed by women to fit into the feminist porn genre, though I think it can include a range of stuff.
Candida Royalle didn't direct a huge amount of videos- not hundreds or thousands or anything like that. I think under 30, but maybe it's about quality over quantity with her. Her videos have good artistry and often creative story lines. Some deal with serious sociopolitical issues, such as Revelations and Afrodite. Her videos differ from the standard hetero porn sequence of blow job, vaginal sex, anal sex (sometimes), and pop shot on the woman's face. In fact, she doesn't show the pop shot in her videos and the intercourse doesn't take up most of the scene. Her films also don't typically show the close up of penetration. Though her films aren't all racially diverse and she included some major stars in her videos, she doesn't do teen themes and the female performers present as "womanly." Her stuff isn't cliche.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Mar 19 2023 : 1:22PM
^ I still have to watch some of Candida Royalle's films she directed. I've only watched the films she performed in the '70s and '80s. You can find a great documentary on Candida Royalle and all her films from Femme Productions(her studio) on pinklabel.tv. The doc is CANDICE if you like to check it. I also added some other sites to my list
Thanks, I watched part of that documentary. Though she didn't direct a huge amount of films, she directed films over a span of decades from the 1980's into the early 2000's. Multiple films she directed are in Pinklabel.tv, but not all. There's more films she directed or produced on Good Vibrations: https://www.goodvibrationsvod.com/vod/search?q=candida%20royalle I haven't watched all her videos.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Mar 27 2023 : 9:49AM
I'm going to watch her documentary soon and start by watching "Eyes of Desire" for Candida's directing career. I still need to get to the 90s in my journey of "porn cinema", Femme Production films are a good start. I believe you have a membership to PinkLabel.tv. You should also check out some of Shine Louise Houston's films. Other than creating PinkLabel.Tv and the CrashPad series she also made a whole list of great films. Two I love were "Chemistry Eases the Pain" a movie about a "lesbian" Bisexual exploration and awaking with her male "chem" lab partner. The end is so sweet and sad, you may actually cry but it's very touching. The other is "SNAPSHOT" it's more of an erotic thriller or even a film noir, the ending was a little weird because of the financial limitations of the studio(Pink and White Productions) but it's still really good, and they also show a lot of safe sex practices.
Also, check out this review site for feminist porn sites Porn-Better . It's an ok site but the reviews are a little outdated and having studios like Kink.com and not a site like AdultTime is hypocritical
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Mar 27 2023 : 1:42PM
^It also lists Bellesa, which is owned by Mindgeek, same company as Brazzers and Reality Kings, and a thousand other brands.
Thanks for the link, Will. Though I'm not familiar with all the sites people are mentioning, there seems to be somewhat of a blurring between mainstream and alternative porn on sites that are supposed to be "different." I wasn't familiar with Porn-Better before Will linked to it, but noticed that they rate studios in terms of various ethical standards mainly toward performers but possibly also toward viewers, which is one thing that makes this site unique (I think.).
Hey, Luna from PORN BETTER here. I noticed some traffic coming from this blog and was curious how that happened. :) First of all, thanks for having a look at us!! We're a very small all-female team and we have many reviews on the waiting list, trying to add one or two per month. But since we're getting in touch with each studio and reaching out to performers to back up what producers say, it takes time to release new reviews. We'll have a crowdfunding in May to improve our site, update it and keep it running for another couple years. :)
I'd just like to say two things about Bellesa: Yes, we do list them because they market themselves as "ethical". But when you read our review, you will see that it's not exactly a positive review. Same goes for Kink.com. It is such a big site and it has established standards that were a role model to other studios when it comes to ethics on set and consent. But there are also very mixed voices about it, and we're trying to reflect on that in our review.
If you have any questions regarding our definition of ethical / feminist porn sites, recommendations or suggestions how to improve our blog, I'll be happy to hear it all!
Hi Luna and welcome! For anybody who's interested, here's the review of Bellesa on the Porn-Better site: https://porn-better.com/en/bellesa/. I'm not familiar with Bellesa and may have heard of it vaguely. It's important to understand that the Porn-Better site provides reviews of studios' ethics, which doesn't mean they're saying studios are ethical just by including them on the site. I just learned about the site today from Will so I won't pretend to know more than I do, but already figured that out.Edited by - Tessa on 3/27/2023 5:51:02 PM
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Mar 27 2023 : 6:09PM
Ahhh, I understand now. Thanks for popping in, Luna!
More women reviewers is awesome. Need yall in these spaces, for sure!
Hey Tessa, Thank you for the warm welcome and for summing up so on point what we're trying to do! You are absolutely right. While most of the sites we list don't only say "ethical", but also act ethical in their business practices, there are unfortunately exceptions (I don't know what the porn equivalent to greenwashing would be called but there's a lot of it going on:D)
Fun fact about Mindgeek (Lezzyist mentioned them, it's the PornHub / Brazzers / YouPorn parent company), they just got bought by "Ethical Capital Partners", a Canadian private equity firm. Unless they prove otherwise by their actions, I'm a bit doubtful about the amount of "Ethical" in their business, but let's see...
Thank you so much for your welcoming words! Yeah we're trying to bring a different perspective to porn reviews. I have noticed that so many women have no idea where to look for porn, and there's a big lack of transparency because the topic is still such a taboo. Feminist porn has been a thing for decades now (Candida Royalle was already mentioned here, or look at Annie Sprinkle's work just to name one more) but it's still lacking visibility.
In one of my previous posts in the "All Things Lesbian" thread, I've brought up an academic paper titled "Porn Work, Feminist Critique, and the Market for Authenticity" written by a researcher named Heather Berg published in 2017 (a cursory search seems to indicate that Dr. Berg is currently a professor at University of California, Santa Barbara).
The article is absolutely fascinating in many regards, as she spoke with many performers, both on the mainstream and feminist side, and in fact personally attended some productions to bear witness. Unfortunately the paper as a whole it is not available for free, but its abstract is. Some of its points, it seems to me, does touch on "feminist porn," loosely defined. Let me quote the relevant parts (bolded is my emphasis):
"This article argues that feminist critiques of pornography... make the performance of authenticity a central component of porn work. Echoing antiporn feminist critiques that posit commercial sexuality as a danger and authentic sexuality its cure, porn managers describe authentic desire-in contrast to economic motivation-as a key feature of what makes a good worker. In turn, workers describe conjuring authenticity as central to the work of porn... this article explores authenticity at the point of production. It investigates the emotional management strategies workers deploy in manufacturing authenticity ... The demands of authenticity are particularly high in feminist and amateur porn, two genres explicitly marketed as "less manufactured" and ostensibly organized around greater worker control over production practices. But worker control as it exists in "less manufactured" productions can create new areas of strain, even as it alleviates others. Workers laboring "authentically" tend to give more time and energy for less pay. In contrast, workers in mainstream porn describe playing a role (defined as separate from the self) for a defined wage as something that protects them from emotional strain."
Anyway, if you can manage to find it, give the whole paper a read. It's very interesting.
This depends on what type of feminism you're referring to. Some assert that authenticity or enjoyment of work are secondary to labor rights issues such as working conditions as safe and sanitary as possible being paid at least a livable wage and the amount agreed upon, agreeing to what you'll do ahead of time (instead of being told you need to do extra than you agreed to), and so on. To some feminists, harm reduction and labor rights are paramount.
In any type of porn, there can the act of authenticity because customers wish to think the performers are enjoying it. Whether they really are or aren't enjoying is another discussion and only they know that. Yes, performers can get paid more if they do more "extreme" stuff, but that doesn't increase authenticity. Even in cases where they're not turned on by the sex act, they might be turned on by other things such as the income and some may just like being good at what they do. Some may enjoy being around the other performers.
^Thanks so much for the thoughtful and detailed reply. I'm very tempted to make a "man/woman of culture" joke, but that may be a bit too off color... Anyway.
I completely agree with what you said about "what type of feminism." As you may have inferred, Berg (at least in that paper) definitely takes on the perspective you suggested, namely emphasizing work/economic equity. In fact, she explicitly refers to what we often call "performers" simply "workers." Now that I think about it, by using terms like "performers," I'm implicitly subscribing to the notion that these are people who do it for the love of porn rather than for money. As Berg rather pithily states at one point in her paper, "workers who love their jobs work harder... to help managers get more out of workers for less."
On the point of performers (I think I'll just stick with this terminology for now) acting to enjoy certain sex acts, again I think you are certainly right. However, Berg makes some very interesting nuanced points on this as well.
She first relates an interview she had with Ela Darling regarding lesbian scenes, who commented negatively about some "gay for pay" performers. Interestingly, Ela did not do so by denigrating the sexuality of such performers, rather she said:
"As far as I'm concerned, as long as you can convince me that you're attracted to me right now, I don't care what your sexual identity is. What bugs me is when before the scene a girl is like 'I never have a real orgasm, I always fake my orgasms.' . . . I'm a professional. . . . If you can't come on camera, I understand, but if you're gonna fake it anyway, I don't need to know beforehand. . . . We're trying to reach a goal together."
Berg then comments (again bolded is mine):
"The work of performance is not only creative but also relational - performers endeavor to reach the goal of a successful scene together. Realness here is multilayered. While producers may be satisfied with faking it for the camera... most performers pursue deep acting in their own practice and hope that coworkers will do the same. The scenes performers talked about feeling most proud of and energized by were those in which they experienced a connection with their on-screen partners. This connection need not be based on sexual desire, however. Performers also describe camaraderie between friends or respect between colleagues as real connections that facilitate the work of performance."
Another nuanced point made by Berg about "authenticity as performance" and "authenticity as brand" is the postscene interview. Here she first quotes performer Danny Wylde, who says this about postscene interview in feminist/queer (as opposed to mainstream) productions:
"...the process of the films seems very important to those producers. Because they want to make sure that everyone is okay with what they're doing, and they also want to capture that on tape."
Berg then comments (again bolded is mine):
"Most performers appreciated this attention to consent ... directors take more time to discuss consent not only for performers' benefit but also because this is part of the brand - they want to capture it on tape. Workers, however, are unlikely to discuss the aspects of the work process that they would change directly after shooting a tiring scene, on film, and before they have been paid. The postscene interview is one of many instances in activist-minded porn in which, when working conditions are part of the brand, modeling those positive conditions may mean more work."
Right, I haven't read the study but what can bring satisfaction is very nuanced. I agree that issues such as consent and a mutually respectful relationship with the performers we work with are very important, and can be more of a factor affecting satisfaction than the sex itself.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Apr 12 2023 : 2:22PM
Thanks, Luna from PornBetter for joining the thread. I still like and use the site and can't wait for more reviews and improvements to the site. The site helped me find most of the sites I listed. Please keep posting here and giving updates if you like. I also like to see if anyone thinks user-created sites or sex education tutorial porn can be labeled as feminist porn? I think so and I believe sites like these are good for the industry. Here are a couple I've been thinking about joining: Lustery -another site by Paulita Pappel, a great selection of couples from married couples to poly couples with a small selection of queer and gay couples. But not that many different body types and little too white.
MakeLoveNotPorn - By sex-positive advertising consultant Cindy Gallop, it's a lot like Lustery but with older and normal-looking couples from all walks of life. I would say it's more like youtube of amateur porn.
Sex ed tutorials like Sex School are great for couples and young adults to learn how to do techniques they see in porn the right way, they also discuss topics that are rarely taught in your high school sex ed like consent, porn literacy, and gender & sexual identity. PinkLabelTV has a large selection of sex ed films that discuss safe sex practices,etc
I don't know, other than watching some feature films by Lust Cinema and Adulttime and scenes from Pure Taboo or XConfessions I rarely watch anything new. Modern porn is just really bad and boring to me now, shit that goons call "hardcore" porn is just misogynist trash that just focuses on the male's pleasure. Less choking, more kissing, fewer blowjobs, more pussy eating. Show scenes of couples doing BDSM right, and show poly couples and not stereotypical "cuckold" couples. Porn needs more real human sexuality. That's why I was thinking about joining Lustery and MakeLoveNotPorn.
^Thanks for the interesting sites. I will check them out. Incidentally, as it sounds like you have had a long history as a porn viewer, and has become quite disenchanted with much of it -- and this question is open to Tessa and Luna (if she is still reading this thread) as well -- what are your opinions of mainstream lesbian porn? I'm an avid viewer of it, but my experience only goes back to the mid to late 1990s, and would be quite interested to hear a longer perspective, if such is available.
Thanks for asking. I speak more from a performer's perspective than a fan's even though I haven't done videos in years. Since I mainly prefer videos with a good plotline, it may be that I just like a good movie instead of watching the sex acts. I don't really know much difference between mainstream and non-mainstream lesbian scenes, other than maybe the performers' appearances. Maybe some who look more "butch" or non-conventional in non-mainstream lesbian porn? That said, I enjoyed performing with women and never had problems with that, though I haven't done a huge amount. It's safer in various aspects also, such as much less risk of transmitting certain STD's/STI's or the hard penetration that can cause internal tearing or damage. However, I hear some women can be really rough with the sex toys so maybe it depends.Edited by - Tessa on 4/13/2023 7:32:17 AM
^Hi tessa thanks for the reply. I appreciate your feedback. At the risk of diverting the discussion to a different topic (unless one accepts the dubious notion that lesbian porn is automatically feminist in some vague sense of the word), I just like to press this topic at least one step further. My impression is that during the late 90s, sex toy was used in virtually every lesbian porn scene. Looking at the landscape today, some studios still use this approach, but the majority have all but eliminated their use. I'm wondering how this was viewed by performers/insiders during those years of transition (no doubt there's a range of opinions)?
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Apr 13 2023 : 1:32PM
A lot of these questions should go in the "allthingslesbain" thread on the forum. But I will say most mainstream lesbian porn and lesbian porn, in general, aren't really feminist. First, most lesbian porn is made by cis straight men and second, most of the lesbian porn viewers are cis straight men. Most of the mainstream stuff is just badly overacted with performers doing stuff you know wouldn't give any woman an orgasm( watch anything by Slayed). I think the reason you don't see that many sex toys in scenes are that some fans don't like to see women using toys in scenes and performers feel like they can't use them for fear of losing viewers. I actually like sex toys in scenes and feel they should use them more often, at least you'll get a more realistic orgasm. Most women have sex toys and like using them, again porn needs to show real sexuality.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Apr 13 2023 : 2:05PM
I would say most lesbian is not feminist. All the obnoxious faking will tell you that not only is the content not feminist, the women are not enjoying the physical sex acts in the vast majority of cases.
I would say something like Queercrush is feminist, with a female owner and female crew, and a focus on the women doing the sexual things they want (though there is an emphasis on toys).
I didn't know about the transition away from sex toys. Though I cannot speak for every woman, I liked certain types. Since the female g-spot is on the clit, I imagine running a vibrator on there is enjoyable to many women. However, porn often goes for the penetration. Some women may like penetration or at least have no problem doing it, but in terms of pleasure, I think it's more for male viewers. As much as people may say they want women to enjoy themselves, how many fans are interested in porn that shows a woman using a vibrator on her g-spot with no penetration? Then, there's also the cunnigilus of course.
Something else sometimes expored but not as common is is ecosexual with elements of nature. For example, masturbation with leaves, branches, flowers, etc. or maturabation with fruits or veggies.
Something artificial like a vibrator can be a turn off. Usually I don't mind though in solo masturbation scenes. But in a m/f scene that would come across as compensation for lacking skills. I do find that mainstream porn is too penetration focused. And seduction, foreplay and teasing is often absent. It's a shame cause I like all that. Not that everything has to be slow all the time, I like fast lustful sex too but mainstream porn also fails at that in my opinion.
Someone mentioned Slayed. I'm subscribed to Slayed and I like it a lot for its quality production. Girls look at their best here and the performances are good. The sex is not like watching real lesbian couples though.
Thanks for the reply. Your discussion of the "ecosexual" is certainly eye opening to me. Yeah there has definitely been a transition. Oral sex (good or otherwise) has taken over as the dominant element in mainstream lesbian porn. The biggest (in terms of quantity of lesbian porn produced) studios on both sides of the Atlantic, like Girlfriends Films, Girlsway, MetArt, are essentially toy free. Even if you go to pornhub, out of about 26,000 professionally produced lesbian porn videos, only about 7,000 have sex toys (not a surprise since they license most of their contents from these studios). Like you said, women (lesbian or otherwise) probably enjoy vibrators a lot of more than porn currently portrays. Like Alizee says, this current state of affair, ironically, probably stems from a desire by the audience to see authentic female pleasure in lesbian porn, having become unhappy watching too many scenes with women who may not care for other women at all and only show up to shove dildos into each other.
Anyway, let me come back to the topic of feminist porn. Upon some reflection, I propose the following definitions. A general definition of feminism: women should not be denied opportunities solely on the basis of their gender.
Applying this to pornography, we have two subtypes that emphasize different things.
Type A feminist porn: what happens on the screen should be feminist, i.e., women should not be denied the opportunity of sexual pleasure in porn. Thus the search for "authentic" porn, perhaps amateur, that showcases female pleasure, as opposed to mainstream m/f porn where male pleasure is emphasized.
Type B feminist porn: what happens behind the screen should be feminist, i.e., women in porn should not be denied opportunity for good working conditions and fair pay, despite working in an environment where most of the producers are men.
Applying this to mainstream lesbian porn, at first glance its very nature seems to negates the concern of Type A feminism as there are no men, and we only need to worry about getting Type B feminism right. Yet as the discussion about toy/vibrator shows, men come back into the conversation because their preference matters as paying customers, perhaps to the detriment of female sexual pleasure.
When applied to feminism, it's also important to consider women's priorities. Are they getting what they're looking to get out of it? Like, some women might not be looking to get off and mainly interested in the income or getting the viewers off and their partner off, and being good at what they do. As mentioned in the study referred to on here, behind the scenes working conditions are also very important, such as good rapport with fellow performers, consent, etc. That was most important to me, too. Nothing wrong with women getting off, but too much pressure to do so can be stressful and make the scene less enjoyable, as it looks like the study found based on how it was described here.
This pressure to get off may also be why some men have trouble performing in porn who can perform fine in their personal lives. This also makes it harder on the woman in hetero porn because she needs to work harder and stay on set longer to try to get him off, which is one reason some women prefer to only work with experienced performers. The men need to get off or there would be no money shots that are signature to mainstream porn (unless it's a cream pie scene where you don't actually see the guy cum and they can fake it). An exception is Candida Royalle didn't show the cum shots in her videos, though her materials were considered more alternative.
Yeah the two types of feminist porn don't always mean the same thing. It's possible to have a production that is Type B feminist (good working condition, good pay, consent, rapport, etc.) without being Type A feminist (the scene could be entirely about pleasing a male partner); it's also possible to have something that's Type A feminist (depicting genuine female sexual pleasure) without being Type B feminist (the performers may be very poorly paid, which is very likely if we are talking about amateur production).
I also agree with you that female orgasm should not be considered a requirement for something to be Type A feminist. When I watch lesbian porn, I want to see two women having pleasure, orgasm is not required. In fact, a common criticism among those of us who are fans of lesbian porn is that some women, perhaps operating under the mistaken assumption that we the viewers always expect women to have orgasm when having sex with other women ("a woman always knows how to pleasure another woman" and all that tired cliche), loudly fake orgasm, which detracts from the scene. Pleased smiles would have been enough.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Apr 17 2023 : 2:16PM
I was about to start a new thread for this, but it dawned on me that these topics align quite well: I've found that if I am watching something that isn't exceptionally stupid, it's because the producers were shooting for "feminist" or "porn for women."
Why is adult content in the U.S. almost always so childish and insulting to the viewer?
^ You win the "loaded question of the week" prize & it's only Monday. As to this thread, feminist porn, to the extent it exists, is a tiny niche in the overall picture.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Apr 17 2023 : 6:05PM
Because porn stopped being looked at as an art form or piece of cinema in the late 80s. When porn started to be shot on cheap vhs and people stopped going to movie theaters to watch porn. The sex wasn't great back then but at least you had an actual story and a real budget. Eroticism was taken out of mainstream porn during the late 90s and early 00s with hardcore gonzo and more extreme scenes. You have small independent studios like Lust Cinema and Pink & White trying to make "Porn Cinema" on a limited budget while companies like Mindgeek buy up every studio and contract every big-name star.
Porn wasn't shot on cheap VHS. I think the first adult content shot on video tape was in the early/mid 70s. In the beginning of the 80s, shot on video became popular because you didn't have to know what you were doing. As a result more business people, who could care less about anything that wasn't a dollar started making content. There are still artists making porn, but the quantity has dwindled, just like there were always dollar chasers like Leo the Lion and Bob Kirk in the days of film.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Apr 22 2023 : 12:24PM
The one thing I like about most feminist porn is that sex scenes aren't that long and they focus on storytelling. Studios like Vixen shoot hour-long repetitive sex scenes with very little story or plot, it's boring. Most feminist porn just has a 20 to 25-minute sex scenes with a story and longer dialogue scenes. To Tessa's comment on how many men would like to see a woman use a vibrator on her G-spot with no penetration, I do!!! I actually love these scenes and look at them sometimes on tube sites, also don't most Onlyfans content creators just do solo scenes with a Magic Wand( My wife and I's favorite sex toy )? There's a market out there for it, it's just that mainstream porn is ass-backward and unoriginal because their old formula makes them money. Also, I'm not expecting every performer to have a "real" orgasm but they should put on a good performance. I do think we shouldn't just solely blame the actors for a bad or unrealistic performance, a lot of that blame should go to the director. Bad directing is one of the main reasons you have overacted and unrealistic sex scenes in porn.
Yea, my main complaint is that nowadays porn in general is unrealistic and robotic with 45 minutes of non-stop pumping. Still I like vixen more than most sites, for other reasons.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Apr 22 2023 : 4:52PM
I think I remember you saying you're a big Kayden Kross fan or something like that. I was a big fan of Kayden & Deeper too but I feel like they fell off last year and just turned into Madison Ave "Brazzers". Films like Muse and Drive both had very intellectual stories and plots, both challenged the viewer. After a 45-minute fuck scene you are treated to beautiful writing and acting by the likes of Maitland Ward, hell, Muse 2 took a whole half hour to get to the fucking. It's called developing the story and character development. Now that's gone and back to simple mainstream stories. I still have a Vixen subscription for all 7 sites and rarely watch anything from them.
^Good post. This is a example of what I referred to earlier as "Type B" feminist porn in action. Sure this is a consumer forum so naturally we focus on the consumption side first (what's on screen), but the production side should not be neglected either (what's behind the screen).
This has happened repeatedly with exotic dancers- suing clubs for wrongfully classifying them as independent contractors. In fact, dancers at the Lusty Lady Theatre in San Francisco unionized, though they were already classified as employees. They were just working on improving conditions. There's a documentary about this called "Live Nude Girls Unite!" Dancers later bought out the club and turned it into a worker-run co-op, but eventually shut down because they couldn't afford the rent raises.
If Kenzie Anne wins her case, this will likely just affect contract performers. I don't see it affecting non-contract performers who just work on a scene-by-scene basis agreed upon rate per scene and the production company has no control over them beyond that.
From what I learned, sex workers are divided on whether they wish to be classified as employees, including at strip clubs. Some prefer to be classified as employees for reasons mentioned in the article. Some may prefer the independent contractor status for various reasons, including out of concern that clubs may reduce the amount of dancers and get rid of them if they have to pay all dancers a set wage. They'd rather just keep working for tips, private dances, and so on than risk that. I wonder if the same would happen where if porn production companies were required to classify contract performers as employees and pay a set minimal wage, abide by labor laws for employees, and so on; would get rid of some or all their contract performers. Though being under contract can give the production companies some control over performers, it can also provide a more stable income with possibily guaranteeing at least a certain amount of scenes for at least a certain amount of money.
Isn't Kenzie Anne in a spot where she's paid by far most for her time of all the people working on set for the exact same long (sometimes) 10 hour workdays and maybe on a weekend? And the only other thing she has to do is keep her good looks the same as the time the contract was signed. I'm sorry but it comes across incredibly selfish. Especially since we're talking about 7 whole vixen media scenes not counting behind the scenes, solo intimate project etc. Essentially she had to work 70 hours for vixen at most. I think these people should try a job at a factory production line for 12$ an hour, long days and only 1 midday break where you are allowed to visit the restroom.Edited by - Alizee on 4/23/2023 7:37:20 PM
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Apr 23 2023 : 7:36PM
^^Interesting insights! All I know is, the more accountability and clean-up there is, the better. The industry should be super-regulated and monitored.
As far strippers, I have recently become a real strip club goer, as far as getting dances and whatnot. In people-watching, I can tell it would be tough to have to pay out set wages. The clubs in Texas can be quiet at 11:00pm on a Saturday sometimes, at least that's what I have seen of the nude ones.
Not to take the club owners side though. In sex work, I always want the workers with the clear advantage in the deal over the business. But a set wage would be tough. In sex work not every girl is more or less equal, rough as that is to say.
^She has sex with people on camera, man. A little more care and decorum should be involved in how employees are handled in sex work.
You make it sound like its the hardest job. Wow sex on camera with people. Just like male pornstars and they get paid peanuts in comparison and don't get treated as well as these divas.
Yeah, I've worked in strip clubs as a dancer and waitress. Though different clubs may be different, my experience is that there's not much business except Fridays through Sundays, with Friday and Saturday nights being the busiest. I usually didn't bother to go in and work weekdays- wasn't worth it. Especially considering that dancers in the U.S. typically have to pay the clubs house fees to work plus are expected to tip out support staff such as bartenders and veejay. However, as dancers told me, sometimes it only takes one customer who spends a lot of money on you and you can make out well even on a slow night.
It's actually not just like male pornstars. In heterosexual porn, females are the ones being penetrated and are at greater risk of getting certain STD's/STI's and internal tears or other internal damage since they're on the receiving end. Not saying it's all easy for men, but just that it's not the same. Also, are you saying that female performers overall are treated better than males? In what ways? Is there evidence of this beyond just anecdotal?
Additionally, the only issue at hand in Kenzie Anne's lawsuit is if she was illegally classified as an independent contractor. Legally speaking, not whether she made more money than other people behind the scenes.
^^ just going by what I've read on Twitter from some male performers who are loose lipped around the subject.
I don't expect her to win this ridiculous lawsuit. If she does win there could be similar ones following. Next up Anton Harden how he's mistreated underpaid and bullied on the internet. Could this be the end of contacted pornstars? The industry seems to be under constant fire especially now females think they don't need studios or agents anymore and can work on their own terms whenever with whoever using a pocket camera. It's not how it will go down. I hope.
Posted - Feb 3 2023 : 12:13PM
