I haven't seen the scene in question but I can tell from savoy's take on it that it is something rare in sex on film. Because porn has a pretty shitty reputation and we don't have the benefit of knowing what's happening "outside the frame" it's hard to understand what we see when it involves anything vaguely emotional. If as a person you've had sex that brings you to tears through the sheer bliss of it I guess you can imagine more clearly or empathise more easily what is going on "outside the frame". Sometimes a sad face and a euphoric face can be hard to tell apart. Take a squizz at beautifulagony.com... Manuel plays his scenes as a lover - very convincingly. In all the scenes I have ever seen him in, even if there is rough play at hand, you never get the feeling that he doesn't admire and enjoy women as people. He lets the power play be just that - he may be the one "in charge" but the woman retains her sexual power, she's desirable, she has the power to excite him, to the point where he almost loses control and comes before he really wants to, (he'll often say that) - it's all pretty exciting stuff to watch. When he starts cooing to his partner, taking her to beautiful places in her head, I think it demonstrates a kind of giving we don't usually see in porn - a lot of porn to me feels about taking. There's a very fun Manuel and Gianna Michaels scene that remains one of my faves even it lacks the intensity that savoy describes in the Kristina scene. I guess this kind of sexual connection is all the more surprising when you consider that the folks playing out the scene are almost strangers.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 12 2009 : 5:25AM
Not trying to be a fanboy, but almost all of Kristina's scenes with Manuel are remarkable: It's A Secretary Thing 2, Slave Dolls 3, et al. This one stands out for how tender it is, the ending when they just hug and whisper to each other is really spell-binding.
Loraine - what movie is that Gianna/Manuel scene from? I just remembered, there's actually a segment towards the end of Annie Sprinkle's Herstory of Porn (yeah, the movie that messed my head up right before watching KRIS) where Annie talks about crying during during sex, and then shows a solo scene where she cries. It's neat, and her commentary about tears during sex is interesting. Can't believe I didn't remember that...
Gore Gore Girl - Gianna Michals and Manuel Ferrara in Bryan Xin's Naturally Stacked Three. I wrote a little about it - here. From another thread also - "Bryan Xin's Naturally Stacked No 3 - Pretty girls,(Kala Prettyman is gorgeous) great boobs, nice clothes, good lighting, very nice camera work, lots of tease involving said pretty girls and their boobs and some fun sex including a very hot scene with Gianna and Manuel Ferrara (nice chemistry there) and Candance Von on crisp white sheets is a sight to behold." Like I mentioned the scene doesn't have the kind of emotion that Savoy witnessed but I think it's a fun scene.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Nov 12 2009 : 12:53PM
For those who don't care for this scene, have you not heard of tears of joy? Manuel, more than most other performer brings passion to every scene I have every seen him in. He swarms over his partners with passion and lust. He worships them. And that is hot. There is no question, from her posts here and on other threads, that she has a very deep attraction to him. The role play that she mentioned in this thread, without question, took here to a deeper level of passion that t she never experienced before. Bueatiful. That she was able to honestly communicate her passion is a tribute to her as a performer and her sexuality. The only true disapointment here is that it shows how poorly most other porn is. Passionless.
Thank you, Loraine. Only in porn can people fuck and still manage to honor each others' 2.5 feet of personal space. Ferrara does not operate like that. I've relistened to skronker's podcast with him from 2006.
Now it all makes perfect sense. Obviously, I didn't know that you're a woman otherwise I wouldn't have responded the way I did. It's a inherent human fact that we will see things differently especially regarding emotional stuff. Me just simple caveman, me from Mars, you from Venus. Gotto go now, Wilma is serving a home made dinner! Greetz, Fred F.
As soon as you mentioned a scene about Gianna and Manuel, I totally knew that you were talking about that movie. I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking it was special.
I'm so happy to hear (now that you all understand the scene) that you all really seem to like the scene a lot. I'm a little bummed out that some of you were confused :/ But thankful that one person, Savoy got it from the start. And now I think all of you get it. :) Yay! I completely understand that this scene may not be everyones cup of tea. Maybe this scene was meant by the porno gods to be for the ladies. Maybe it's a girl thing ;P IDK. But for those that do get it and can recognize the passion and concept behind it I know that they will thoroughly enjoy it. I know I have, on several occasions. Actually, I enjoyed myself to it like 2 nights ago. lol. Despite all the misunderstandings about whether or not this was intended as a rape scene or not I still wouldn't change one second of that scene. I love the idea behind it. I love the mystery behind it. I love how intense it was. I love how it made me feel. I love everything about it. To me that was the best experience I've ever had sexually and I just wouldn't change a thing about it. Not one. I like to think that, that scene was a gift to me from Mason and Manuel. I think it kind of was. I think that will always be my most favorite scene ever! P.S. Manuel did ruin me for all men. lol. For me he is the BEST and every man I fuck knows it. Haaaa, haaa. Hopefully I can do porn forever and hopefully Manuel plans to do the same. I WILL show up to set when I'm 60 and hopefully Manuel will stroll in all sexy at 69 complete with walker and fuck the shit out of me like the good ole' Slutwoman days. Haa, haaa. Hey, maybe even Mason can shoot it. It can be like a reunion. lol.
^ It's because he's smoking hot, a charismatic fucker, and seems to really love women. Edited to add that this is just my opinion. I'm sure the performers can give us some insight. Edited by - Gore Gore Girl on 11/13/2009 6:12:57 PM
I'm a guy who is confident with his sexuality so it doesn't bother me to say another guy is good looking. He looks good but there other American pornstars who don't look bad but they don't get as much love as him.
In my personal opinion, there are no currently working male porn stars who are even close to being as deliciously hot as Manuel. It's not all about being shaved and tan with some muscles (in fact, I'm not a fan of the buff look). Manuel has all bases covered.
I have not seen Kristina's scene from Slutwoman but when the trusted and respected serial clit flicker Savoy comes out and says that it sent a shiver down her stockings then it's time to sit up and take notice.It is strange how some guys can be terrified of tears and emotions during sex,myself included,yet think nothing of hugging complete strangers and crying at sports events when there team wins a major trophy. A girl crying on a guy is right up there with getting strung up by the man-berries and clubbed with an over-ripe haddock on the third Tuesday of every month for some guys,i think i will take the haddock please lol No tears here but in Bombshell Bottoms 5 from Vouyer Media Mr Pete shows Alexis Texas that he is a big softy...for 10 seconds lol Snippet from my review The action almost grinds to a halt as Mr Pete begins to softly whisper to Alexis then is soon showing his tender side by sliding his fingers in and out of Alexis mouth,what next is he going to whisper to Alexis "I cried watching The Titanic" lol but there was a catch..oh there is always a catch i hear you cry lol.He then began to circle a finger around Alexis butthole then he slips a finger deep in her ass.The last time i tried to stick my finger in my ex girlfriends ass i had to wait till she was sleeping..and for the Rohypnol to kick in..i am joking.Alexis continues to get fucked and with that finger still up her asshole she tenses up as another orgasm flows through her.
I think Manuel is a great star but he does one thing that bugs the shit out of me. I know the girls probably like it but I hate that rapid fingerbanging thing he does. It's good that he has the desire to stimulate the clit but that's a little over the top.
^ I'm all in favor of making clit play as over the top as dick play in porn. Ok, maybe not quite as over the top...all that throat fucking bothers the shit out of me. But I see nothing wrong with some vigorous bean spanking.
But now back to something serious . . . Although I adore Savoy and Gore Gore Girl, I think they are both being very hard on the guys posting in this thread who have trouble with women shedding tears on video out of a feeling of protectiveness toward them. Most men are taught to be extremely careful about their anger, especially toward women. When it comes to real life, tears are much more often the result of pain or sadness than of release or joy. Like any other genre, porn has norms. Honest emotion isn't one of them. When norms are violated, signals go off and snap conclusions are drawn. Guys have emotions, too. Mason is the only porn director whom I trust to evoke tears from women. Partly it's because she's a woman and partly it's because of what she reveals about her own sensibility in her conversations with her performers. Personally, I find Manuel's face-slapping and choking to be disturbing, no matter how many kisses and coos he intersperses with them.
Amongst the people who have seen it - it is polarizing. I was talking to a male friend who watched the scene and he HATED it (sorry) with every fiber in his being. I couldn't even get a word in edgewise. We talked about the scene for almost an hour. To me, the fact that it elicited such a strong response from him was striking. The convo ended in a stalemate. Me loving it no less and him liking it no more.
I guess I'm more superficial than you. He's always been good-looking and an amazing performer, but the recent physical change has just made him unspeakably hot.
Once you watch it (if you do) - see if you think the same way about a certain person in this thread. There is no anger. There is no true pain. After Kristina's contribution, I now understand why it felt a little sad: they were role-playing as though it were the last time.Emotions they don't want to experience while jacking off. I can respect that. And when have I ever liked the norm in porn?
No, that's not what I meant. I meant that if the male viewer's interpretation of the scene is that "something wrong" is happening to Kristina -- whether to her "character" inside the narrative frame or to her "person" in the real world of filming the scene == then the emotion of protectiveness (a typical "guy" emotion) is natural and laudible. A viewer's concern that "something wrong" happened in the real world of filming a scene (the kind of concern that people have in connection with Max Hardcore and Khan Tusion scenes, for instance) can arise from the presence in the scene of elements outside the "porn norm", such as tears. All that said, I realize that I'm drowning myself in conjecture regarding other people's interpretations of a scene I haven't seen.
Bob - If the viewer thinks that "something wrong" in the vein of Max Hardcore/Khan Tusion is happening in this scene, than their sensors are way out of whack. I can understand that response to those sort of scenes but they are so different from anything that is going on in the KRIS scene and anything that I am looking for. After reading reviews of "Fuck Slaves", I'm not even sure that is what I am searching for. Seems way too heavy on kinky BDSM.Haha. Go have lunch with Skronker. :)
I don't expect to find "something wrong" myself, because I trust Mason (plus Kristina's told us how it was for her). I suspect that I'll be put off by Manuel's slapping/choking (as always) but seduced by Kristina's performance and Mason's alchemy. My post above was mostly a reaction to the Stone Age thing. I'm the kind of guy who drags women into his cave by their hair in order to protect them. ;)
I find that virtually every time I make love to a woman they cry after I'm done in a minute. Then they storm out and slam the door. What is up with that s--t?
:-)
[Link]
Slaughtersun Deactivated User
825 Posts 8/08
Posted - Nov 16 2009 : 11:21AM
There's a scene with Mason Moore and Mistress Madeline on WhippedAss where Mason starts to cry and sobs really hard for quite some time. At first I didn't really know how to respond to that, but it was a very intense and beautiful scene. Of course they talked about it afterwards in that post-sex interview part and both explained how they really liked it and got into it.
Bob - I don't think I gave anyone any shit. I believe I made a comment implying my displeasure, but actually it was in reference to something other than "caveman" syndrome. Namely, the irony of a man explaining why such a scene would turn men off - due to his instinct to protect a woman - as opposed to women. I guess I was struck by how blind someone must be to what a woman - the subject of sexual violence - might experience watching a scene like this. Furthermore, the idea that only men react to such scenarios with an instinct to help is rather short-sighted, and not a little male-centric. But, I didn't really feel like articulating all of that (until now), so I left a vaguely displeased remark.
This is not an idea that I subscribe to, although I'm doubtless shortsighted and male-centric on other matters and grounds.Yeah, I reacted to the vague but unarticulated displeasure -- just being defensive on behalf of my gender, I guess.
^ "Pan-protective" made me think of you cowering Golum-style with your stewing dishes gathered about you. Maybe it's because I can my smell my dinner being cooked. Nothing wrong with defending men - but I thought you were supposed to be defending women, you chauvinist ass. Where did chivalry go...
I confess that I thought "pan-protective" was cuter than "omni-protective". Actually, once upon a time, I was protective about my pans -- well, more territorial, really -- but that was two children and several thousand meals ago.
Okay -- here's a question: How would ya'll feel about men in tears during a sex scene (and not because they couldn't get it up)? * * * * * (If this seems a derail, Savoy, please forgive.)
^ Interesting - I've never seen that before. I assume you mean in the same manner as the OP (emotional response) rather than as a result of abuse? That's something I might find moving.
Yes, I mean it in the same way as Savoy does. Truthfully, although I cry at the drop of a hat -- both out of joy and out of sadness -- I've never cried during sex. It's almost inconceivable to me that I would.
And women ask themselves why men in general don’t talk about emotions or feelings, well, that’s because they get ragged on, the moment they try talking about their feeling/emotions etc or when they try giving an explanation therof.....so never mind going into it any further, Bob, I appreciate your effort to help me out, but it is obviously not working whatever you, I, or any other guy would say... Quotations: Tonz0fun: (...)watched the film 2 days ago- instant wood killer- once she started crying- killed it for me-it just seemed uncomfortable-not sexy- I dont want art-i want porn- and yeah its sad= fucking sad i spent money on this dvd that completely turned me off. If i would have know a scene like this was in the movie I wouldn't have gotten it. A fantasy rape scene isn't slutty its disturbing- It just wasnt sexy- less undertones of assault would have helped-(...) (...)NOT THAT I WANT TO SEE TORI BLACK IN A SCENE LIKE THIS EVER!! IE fantasy rape scene with tears ect..) You see the tears start and it's like "why is she crying- was she raped once? Is this the first time she is being touched in a way she really likes and the rest is just an act.(...) APLUS: (...)after hearing someone say it was a rape or assault type scene, I immediately knew I wasn't gonna watch it. For whatever reason, that kind of stuff just doesn't turn me on.(...) Cupid stunt: (...)I'm put off by watching women cry, i really am.(...) Savoy: (...)I was talking to a male friend who watched the scene and he HATED it (sorry) with every fiber in his being. I couldn't even get a word in edgewise. We talked about the scene for almost an hour. To me, the fact that it elicited such a strong response from him was striking. The convo ended in a stalemate. Me loving it no less and him liking it no more.(...) Sorry to break it to ya, Savoy, but no, this "new guy" (me)- who quite frankly has more important stuff to do in his life than post 3000+ messages on a porno forum- hasn't got sensors that are out of whack. Let me reiterate this again: Men and women are who they are: 2 complete different parties with different behaviors and different views on certain matters (e.g. stuff regarding emotions). What’s so hard to understand about it....It's not that I'm talking Chinese here,or what....? P.s. you forgot to tell why this male friend of yours dislikes that scene that much. And whether or not he's gay/bisexual, in which case he would probably not fall within the first group (that is, in cases like the one we're talking about now). I guess, it’s okay for some people in this thread to say it’s a "instant boner-killer" and to write down all of that other stuff I quoted^^^^ I just tried to explain an average man’s view in simplistic unequivocal words and sentences. Now, all of a sudden I’m the BoomMan that should go back to the stoneage. So I made a joke about it where I was referring to the Flintstones, and that doesn’t get appreciated as well. You know what, Go Go Girl: it was just a joke, why so serious? You only confirm the communis opinio that "feminists" (how you obviously see yourself) ( http://thegoregoregirl.blogspot.com/?zx=64bfda98920f38bb ) are not exactly people you can have fun with outside an online community such as ADT. Do you have a lot of friends, Go Go Girl? How often do you go clubbing in the weekends? Or go out to restaurants (or wherever) with a bunch of people. Just curious to know....P.S. Why am I not surprised to see you being an overly active participant in that "snitch" thread about "who will be the next deactivated user"? I guess, that make you one of the cool cats here on ADT? Whatever....BTW, I was NOT the first who made the rape connection here, that was you:“Gore Gore Girl“. (post 13). @The women,bisexuals and homos:
You know, I’m pretty sure that if every hetrosexual male member would respond in this thread that they would tell you that in essence all comes down to my thoughts. But the "problem" here is that probably alsmost none of them would even open this thread because of how it is named. 9/10 of all men isn’t intersted in this crying stuff. What’s so difficult to understand about this given? Sheesh. I guess that one can only totally relate to the content of this scene if they we're born a woman, bisexual or homo. As said, I understand how for women or gays this scene can create some fuzzy fuzzy feeling (especially after hearing about Kristina’s explanation: last time they will see, goodbye sex etc.) but nevertheless I wouldn't re-watch the movie for a third time and think otherwise about it. This does not mean that I dont understand the point of view of female( or gay) viewers.Thanks to Kristina for giving the idea behind the scene. I mean, If it wasn't for her, I would probably never understand this scene and what it does to women. Am I the only man who doesn't talk to women about the porno they watch or more specifically doesn't talk about how this "brutal" Manuel guy, brings this gorgeous woman to tears?? Please....that's pretty gay, if you'd ask me! I was just giving y'all an insight look on how the average hetrosexual guy will probably interpret this scene if they don't have any 411 about the idea behind it whatsoever. It’s just a typical guy emotion, just as Bob was saying correctly in his third post on the the 3rd page of this thread. That’s why I came up with that shit about Venus/Mars. GORE GORE GIRL: Bob - I don't think I gave anyone any shit. I believe I made a comment implying my displeasure, but actually it was in reference to something other than "caveman" syndrome. Namely, the irony of a man explaining why such a scene would turn men off - due to his instinct to protect a woman - as opposed to women. I guess I was struck by how blind someone must be to what a woman - the subject of sexual violence - might experience watching a scene like this. Furthermore, the idea that only men react to such scenarios with an instinct to help is rather short-sighted, and not a little male-centric. But, I didn't really feel like articulating all of that (until now), so I left a vaguely displeased remark. Whatever.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 16 2009 : 11:20PM
When I watched Kristina's scene I got it and didn't feel any need to 'protect' her, and last I checked I still had my dick and balls attached (wait...yep, still there). In case anyone gets the idea that this is some creepy scene, check out this terrific, funny, free-association dirty talk by Kristina: 'My holes are made for you, my holes are made for you, my pussy is the shape of your cock, you make it that way, you make it that way...'
Regarding a dude crying, the only example I can think of takes place in the sorta-pornographic Anatomy of Hell by Breillat with Rocco: he has a huge crying jag where the snot is even running out of his nose. I was stunned that Rocco could go there, it was so intense and revealing, I wonder what he did to get to that 'place.' I also wonder if his experience in porn and S&M helped him for that scene.
He's always been good-looking and an amazing performer, but the recent physical change has just made him unspeakably hot.
I remember you once said that you liked seeing porn scenes with girls tearing up before. Which scene was the first scene you saw that in?
