Is the porn industry DOOMED?

Author	Post
jefallbel Member 16 Posts 1/17	Posted - Feb 7 2017 : 4:42PM Let's talk about this, shall we. Is the porn industry doomed? I say yeah. I say within 20 years the porn industry is going to be obsolete. There will be no porn industry! There might be a few porn companies still going but not like it is right now. And this all started with the introduction of the tube sites 10 years ago. I say the porn industry was at its absolute peak around the year 2005. I mean back then guys were doing gonzo movies doing 2, 3, 4 scenes a day making like $500 a scene. Some guys were raking in over $100K a year banging hot chicks up the ass. Sure beats working at McDonald's flipping burgers for minimum wage. And the girls. The girls were becoming multi-millionaires like Jenna Jameson. And she only did a handful a movies a year. Now fast forward to present day 2017. Many of the top male talent have retired because there's no work anymore. Guys like Dave Hardman, Rick Masters, Rod Fontana, Vince Vouyer, Brian Surewood, Nick East, Steve Hatcher, Joel Lawrence, Tony Tedeschi, John West. All of those porn greats are no longer performing. And the girls. Instead of becoming millionaires they're still doing their scenes but some are feature dancing, and hooking on the side. Girls are lucky to be making $100K a year nowadays. Gonzo is out and parodies are in. And they're almost all parodied out now. They've done almost all the good movies worth doing a parody of already. And right now you could pretty much go to a tube site and download full length 2 hour porn movies for free which back in the day would've cost like $50 a pop. You could easily amass a library of hundreds of free full length porn movies. Do you agree? [Link]
grmi- Member Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum 429 Posts 1/10	Posted - Feb 7 2017 : 5:18PM Let me tell you something If I may : I don't understand why the male talents are all the same. I do understand that porn actress ask the same guys but I don't feel really close to those guys because they are way muscular and handsome than me. I do think large penises can be a trend setter and a production value for porn studios but I would prefer to see more different casts doing sex with my favorite porn stars. Diversity and variety are the keywords here. I don't have to mention names but it's between 5 to 10 people who alternate hundreds of woman. [Link]
Aya Senior Member All The Cool Girls Are Lesbians 7439 Posts 6/14	Posted - Feb 7 2017 : 6:24PM In it's current form maybe. But people are sexual beings, and as long as the majority treats the subject as taboo and shameful, porn will always have a purpose. It may take on a different form, but it's not going to die. At least until we create affordable sex robots for everyone. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 2:32AM Brian Surewood is in prison, not retired. [Link]
darthroc Member 754 Posts 4/14	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 6:33AM There is a lot of truth to what you say and the industry definitely has some serious problems that it has to deal with. I think that is reflected in less scenes on the pay sites and the increasing amount of stars offering content on those crappy clips sites where each clip costs something like $25 a clip. Now we seem to be back to where we started with VHS in terms of affordability. (Thanks a lot tube sites!!!!) But have you been on a tube site lately? These days they offer such poor service I think it is way more rational just to pay for it. If that poor service continues hopefully they wont have as much of an effect. The other problem is with the lesser amount of scenes, your favorite porn stars have less of a chance of becoming successful and will therefore eventually retire early. [Link]

ScottMcGowan Your Choice "Skip the sex. I wanna see the stories." -Scott on Girlfriends Films 149 Posts 7/10	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 8:12AM I've worked in adult Video-on-Demand and retail since 2001, and here are my thoughts... Porn is in the midst of yet another evolution. It evolved when home video (e.g. VHS) became a part of the average consumers lives. It evolved when the internet proliferated. It evolved after the market saturation/rise of tubesites of the mid 2000's. And it's happening again. I think it's safe to say that there will continue to be professional production of porn for the foreseeable future. But direct to consumer content in the form of self publishing (cams, manyvids, clips4sale, personal sites etc.) will likely continue to trend upward. Amateur/semi-pro production and distribution is more accessible than ever thanks to the affordability or pro-sumer grade equipment and easier than ever thanks to the variety of publishing platforms. It also allows for niche content to more easily find it's audience - something the larger, more broadminded production companies would/could never focus on. There would be virtually no return on investment. So is porn doomed? No. Will it continue to take on different forms and cater to different audiences through different means? Yes. [Link]
cormac Senior Member 1093 Posts 1/14	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 8:27AM Porn has been with us since the Romans and Ancient Greeks; perhaps even longer. It never goes away, it just re-invents itself according to changes in culture and taste. It won't go away - ever. I like to think that one day holographic images in 3D will perform porn wherever we want. It will be as if the performers are in the same room. [Link]
ScottMcGowan Your Choice "Skip the sex. I wanna see the stories." -Scott on Girlfriends Films 149 Posts 7/10	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 8:39AM And just to zero in on one of your points... jefallbel wrote: I say the porn industry was at its absolute peak around the year 2005. I mean back then guys were doing gonzo movies doing 2, 3, 4 scenes a day making like $500 a scene. Some guys were raking in over $100K a year banging hot chicks up the ass. Sure beats working at McDonald's flipping burgers for minimum wage. And the girls. The girls were becoming multi-millionaires like Jenna Jameson. And she only did a handful a movies a year... Click to expand Having worked in the business through that period, I can tell you with confidence that even without the tube sites, that rate of production couldn't have been sustained. Everyone was trying to cash in on the porn boom and the market was flooded with product. Unfortunately, even the 2nd and 3rd tier studios (especially the gonzo specialists) were still trying to charge a premium price even if their production costs were next to nothing. As a result, the product became, in many cases, disposable. After a title was out for more than 30-60 days it had virtually no value, barring that odd major release from the likes of Digital Playground, Wicked, Adam & Eve, Evil Angel etc. While the amount of productions hitting the streets, the retail price, contract stars making huge bucks* and all the other window dressings looked good in 2005, a lot of companies were barely breaking even if at all in the long term. From my view, the tsunami of mediocre product at a premium price (and thus, disenfranchised customers) played as much of a role in so many companies going by the way side as tube sites did. *When it comes to contract stars and their big salaries in that era, they weren't just expected to make movies. They also did loads of promo work, travelling to store/club/fan convention appearances, and anything else the studio could cook up for them to promote the brand. And feature dancing has been a mainstay as supplemental income for decades. [Link]
SP_Love Senior Member "Freaky Deakies Need Love Too" 1181 Posts 2/11	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 9:48AM Blaming piracy and condoms for the industry's financial woes is bullshit. Porn producers just need to adapt to a changing climate. For as long as men have dicks we'll always have perverts such as my self who will pay for jerk-offable pics and videos. A female performer who's in the business made an insightful statement in my opinion that I happen to agree with... "Porn as we know it is dying and it's because producers/directors shoot what THEY want and what makes THEIR dicks hard, not what the fans want. Not all producers of course, but most." The porn industry is struggling because the free market system is working perfectly. Simply put If you ignore what your consumers want then you lose profits. The good news is that someone always fills the void and eventually adult entertainment companies will give their potential customers what they want. "Twist Your Head Around; It's All Around You" [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 10:51AM BlackSix wrote: Brian Surewood is in prison, not retired. Click to expand He's been out of prison for over 2 years [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 11:14AM Love wrote: The porn industry is struggling because the free market system is working perfectly. Simply put If you ignore what your consumers want then you lose profits. Click to expand Do you seriously believe it's that simple? The reason for a declining industry is due to several factors. Ripping off consumers or ignoring customer taste is likely part of it, but that doesn't mean the other factors don't play a role. There are millions of people out there who love the porn they watch and steal it anyway. Government interference, refusal to incorporate porn into mainstream media platforms, tube sites, and a societal attitude that porn is trash and not worth spending money on are also factors. [Link]
SP_Love Senior Member "Freaky Deakies Need Love Too" 1181 Posts 2/11	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 11:52AM ^ I do actually believe it's that simple. People steal music files and yet we're seeing a multi-billion dollar music industry. Most people don't mind paying for stuff when they feel like the product is worthy of their hard earned dollars. Some one previously made a great point of how porn's business model has had to adapt over the decades to keep up with changing technologies (film to digital etc). I agree that the porn industry is ready for another transition. What will that look like? I have no idea. We're living in an age where everybody and their mother has an opinion about everything and posts it everywhere online. There is literally no reason for porn producers not to know what you want to see in porn unless they really don't give a fuck what you want (I've actually heard a director admit to this). "Twist Your Head Around; It's All Around You" Edited by - love on 2/8/2017 11:55:32 AM [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 12:33PM No, they don't care about what you want. What you want may not make a profit or enough profit. They care what the plural you (a tense we don't have in English) wants but not the individual you. There is a thread where one guy wants unwashed asses with poop on them. Should the industry cater to him? But then I like adult films with a decent plot, acting, and decent production values. Should the industry cater to me? I don't want asses with poop on them. How do they fix that? Maybe you want all sex films with nothing but DPs and washed asses. How do they cater to the "you?" If you think tube sites have no effect on profits then you haven't studied their effects on any industry at all. [Link]
Quorrl Senior Member 2835 Posts 3/11	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 12:44PM Love wrote: We're living in an age where everybody and their mother has an opinion about everything and posts it everywhere online. There is literally no reason for porn producers not to know what you want to see in porn unless they really don't give a fuck what you want (I've actually heard a director admit to this). Click to expand ...as on ADT, for example. This forum is a place where everybody and their dog are posting their opinion. But could a producer use these opinions here to get a clue what he should shoot? According to you, yes. But I don't think so. When you read 50 users' opinions, you still would have to make 35 different scenes to fulfill their very different desires, fetishes etc. I can understand why still some directors/producers go with their gut. In a way you're right: the atomization of porn into thousands of individual can girls and small sites that can reach fans with individual custom videos and shows that are ´tailor-made exactly for their fetish or urges, is a way of the market functioning. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 12:44PM Flash wrote: I don't want asses with poop on them. How do they fix that? Click to expand [Link]

Heavyx New Member 5 Posts 1/17	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 1:00PM I don't see the porn industry doomed. In fact. I think porn industry is now doing quite fine with VR-technology among us. As VR user it's hard to find porn for free from tube sites and you do have to download now your videos now just like in the old days to get the settings properly for your headset. [Link]
SP_Love Senior Member "Freaky Deakies Need Love Too" 1181 Posts 2/11	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 2:13PM Flash wrote: No, they don't care about what you want. What you want may not make a profit or enough profit. They care what the plural you (a tense we don't have in English) wants but not the individual you. There is a thread where one guy wants unwashed asses with poop on them. Should the industry cater to him? But then I like adult films with a decent plot, acting, and decent production values. Should the industry cater to me? I don't want asses with poop on them. How do they fix that? Maybe you want all sex films with nothing but DPs and washed asses. How do they cater to the "you?" Click to expand But do most porn producers actually care what the "plural you" wants? I'm convinced that the average producer/director goes by what the individual producer/director is turned on by. Or they're out of touch thinking that they know what the "plural you" wants when they really don't have a clue. As for the guy who wants to view porn with shitty asses if he looks hard enough on the web he can probably find someone who'll do a personalized video for him. Should Vivid or Digital Playground funnel all of their financial resources into hardcore scat porn because of this guy? Obviously not. If you think tube sites have no effect on profits then you haven't studied their effects on any industry at all. Click to expand Who owns the major porn tube sites? "Twist Your Head Around; It's All Around You" [Link]
ArielBlue Member The new face of extreme hardcore 207 Posts 7/16	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 2:23PM Porn will never die. The profitability of it however... well the truth is we just have to find a new way to capitalize on it because this current model of shooting is just unsustainable. The market today is oversaturated with women trying to get into porn. With new girls shooting a handful of scenes and then leaving the industry. Directors and producers shoot what they want to shoot. If they listened to the fans and read these threads as I know many directors do (one even commented on this thread), they would know thier market. Sadly many girls are forced to fuck the directors to get shot. No it's not casting couch, but off camera play is not only expected, sometimes it's required. Contact macimayxo@gmail.com Twitter @Maci_MayXO [Link]
darthroc Member 754 Posts 4/14	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 3:00PM Flash wrote: No, they don't care about what you want. What you want may not make a profit or enough profit. They care what the plural you (a tense we don't have in English) wants but not the individual you. There is a thread where one guy wants unwashed asses with poop on them. Should the industry cater to him? But then I like adult films with a decent plot, acting, and decent production values. Should the industry cater to me? I don't want asses with poop on them. How do they fix that? Maybe you want all sex films with nothing but DPs and washed asses. How do they cater to the "you?" If you think tube sites have no effect on profits then you haven't studied their effects on any industry at all. Click to expand I think you have a good point with what you say in regards to the plural "you". Although I have never met any porn fan that likes fake lips or thinks that it improves the look of any woman. And yet the industry doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. [Link]
Mister Fahrenheit All-Star Member Meh 4655 Posts 10/13	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 3:19PM ^ Not sure what the industry can do about plastic surgeries since that's a choice of the performers' themselves. [Link]
A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 4:12PM MaciMay wrote: Sadly many girls are forced to fuck the directors to get shot. No it's not casting couch, but off camera play is not only expected, sometimes it's required. Click to expand It's always been this way ...It's much more magnified now because there are 100 times as many girls wanting to do porn scenes as there is work available. So directors can play favorites with all the leverage agents are also an issue... if a girl refuses a "private" they may not get booked.. agents are making less these days too... they are hungry porn is not dying, it is different and is evolving... the women need to empower themselves and make their own success through all the means out there in the world. Commercially produced porn scenes are much harder to make money with so there is much less work....... i consider it a correction.... less girls will join porn and seek other methods like camming, and there will be more balance with number of performers and scenes over time Edited by - A_Fan on 2/8/2017 4:14:22 PM [Link]
shalalin Senior Member 1733 Posts 11/07	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 5:04PM Flash wrote: No, they don't care about what you want. What you want may not make a profit or enough profit. They care what the plural you (a tense we don't have in English) wants but not the individual you. (...) If you think tube sites have no effect on profits then you haven't studied their effects on any industry at all. Click to expand Of course, as another poster pointed out a little while ago, Brazzers/MindGeek is likely datamining their tube sites to find out what potential customers want (in large aggregates), and using it to tailor their paid offerings to it... It's all a little bit more complex than just "tube sites are ruining the industry". (I know you didn't say that, but it's a common refrain.) They're ruining certain parts of the industry, but that's always going on in any line of business outside of boom periods. And as ScottMcGowan mentioned above, the last boom period also served to support the creation of loads of utter dreck - dreck that nobody remembers anymore, just like bad Hollywood movies and bad mainstream music are frequently forgotten within a few years. I agree with your larger point though: Far too many people are harbouring the mistaken impression that the porn industry is "not catering to customers" simply because they don't want to admit that their own personal tastes are too niche to be catered for by mainstream porn. Edited by - shalalin on 2/8/2017 5:06:03 PM [Link]
moebius22 Senior Member 1528 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 5:31PM Fewer big productions and a lot more low budget POV junk. [Link]
Dildoslime Member 177 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 2:10AM Porn is always going to ride the rollercoaster. But, I believe it's currently jumping the shark with how far the scene content has strayed from mainstream sex. Seriously, today's porn is more about the train wreck than it is about sex. [Link]
matchmaker Senior Member 24909 Posts 4/05	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 3:26AM I think the porn industry needs to figure out a way where porn fans can view porn for free, but the porn companies can still make money (like through advertisements and commercials for clips on their own sites or some other ways). I can see how tough it is for porn companies to try to convince fans to pay for porn instead of viewing it for free somewhere else. The porn industry needs to adjust to how other industries make money. In other industries, you don't usually hear companies say, "I know that you can get that product for free somewhere else, but how about paying $30.00 for it through our company instead?" That wouldn't work for other industries so I don't understand why the porn industry works that way. Edited by - matchmaker on 2/9/2017 3:30:07 AM [Link]

BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 3:43AM Mike Quasar wrote: BlackSix wrote: Brian Surewood is in prison, not retired. Click to expand He's been out of prison for over 2 years Click to expand Didn't know that, thanks Mike. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 3:49AM Love wrote: People steal music files and yet we're seeing a multi-billion dollar music industry. Click to expand The music industry has lost 50 to 70 percent of their profits since downloading. Digital sales and streaming don't come close to making up for the massive losses. Beyonce and the like continue to make a lot of money but probably less than they would have pre-download era and indie level artists and labels can no longer come even close to making a living. [Link]
Unbeliever Member 418 Posts 1/15	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 7:51AM Perhaps, but not for the reasons that you stated. I imagine the sex-bots they are working on is more likely to be the reason the porn industry dies :D [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 11:51AM matchmaker wrote: I think the porn industry needs to figure out a way where porn fans can view porn for free, but the porn companies can still make money (like through advertisements and commercials for clips on their own sites or some other ways). Click to expand An honest query, if you are giving away the porn only making money off advertisements for porn, where does the money that is profit come from? Since your competitors would also be giving it away, it seems like the only money that would be coming in is advertising free porn? Edited by - flash on 2/9/2017 12:14:59 PM [Link]
Dread Senior Member Latex and boobs 5085 Posts 3/07	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 12:15PM I think porn is going to shift to the performers owning and selling their content with clips4sale and cam stuff, with the occasional content trades i suppose. ----Dread's Twitter---- [Link]
snufish Member 580 Posts 4/14	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 12:19PM Porn producers work with tubes. They sell them their back catalog and upload previews of their current & upcoming scenes. Vr porn will not save porn. Clip sites are a god send. I can get the exact type of porn i want instead of buying a 5 scene dvd with vanilla sex and monotonous content. The consumer is winning. I know a guy in CA with a RED camera doing private videos with top pornstars and paying them well. Clip sites allow porn valley rejects to make their own porn and sell to the customer without going thru the exclusive boys club known as the porn valley. [Link]
moebius22 Senior Member 1528 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 2:42PM A RED camera for porn is overkill, but thanks for the post. Edited by - moebius22 on 2/9/2017 2:54:54 PM [Link]
Peter Mc Member 895 Posts 10/16	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 5:34PM I do think porn has problems with rampant piracy and girls are now dropping out as they are not making enough money or finding enough work. The comment that piracy is not impacting on music is simply not true. Lots of bands basically now say that there is very little money in album sales and they tour constantly in order to make money. There are some acts who continue to shift large amounts of records but it is nothing like it was before the internet age. What will likely save porn is new technologies. I don't have VR yet as it's too expensive. Once it becomes more affordable to all though that is probably where porn will go. That will be a lot harder for pirates to put up on tube sites I would think. Then you go perhaps to holograms, sexbots in the future maybe. There will always be nerds who can't get laid and there will always be perverts who want to see crazy stuff. We'll always need porn in some form or other so it will never die. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10081 Posts 3/10	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 8:55PM An honest query, if you are giving away the porn only making money off advertisements for porn, where does the money that is profit come from? Since your competitors would also be giving it away, it seems like the only money that would be coming in is advertising free porn? Edited by - flash on 2/9/2017 12:14:59 PM Click to expand That's what I thought. I mean how can you hope to make any money from advertising sales when you are already giving away the product you are advertising. Unless I am mistaken (which is not uncommon) the profit sites make from advertising on tube sites comes from the people who use the links to join the sites being advertised but in a system where the porn is always free than where would the money come from? I mean supermarkets have these little tasting booths where you can try an advertised product and that's a great marketing tool but it would stop being great if after tasting the products the clerk gave each person a free box. If tube sites were such amazing marketing tools than the industry would not be where it is now. [Link]
A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 9:37PM Peter Mc wrote: The comment that piracy is not impacting on music is simply not true. Lots of bands basically now say that there is very little money in album sales and they tour constantly in order to make money. There are some acts who continue to shift large amounts of records but it is nothing like it was before the internet age. There will always be nerds who can't get laid and there will always be perverts who want to see crazy stuff. We'll always need porn in some form or other so it will never die. Click to expand Points on your two comments: Yes piracy hurt music a lot. What it did is change the industry from full album sales into single song choices. iTunes came out as a single song platform in response to all the filesharing going on out there (Napster was one of the biggest at allowing single song). So, instead of an artist getting a cut of a 20 dollar CD, they started to get a cut of a 1 dollar song download in an era where people were flocking to file sharing and not paying a penny. iTunes, and now the subscription streaming, has turned most music people into paying customers. However, this model carries so much different revenue and the artists make very little. Live tours are where the money is at now. Perhaps a big star sells a million album downloads online, for most, that is long gone. The business , right or wrong, evolved and people can't keep living in the past dreaming about the good old days. Porn needs to evolve... many of them did with membership sites allowing scene downloads and moving away from sales of physical media on a per release basis. Porn is being paid for, in numbers that support the current output. There is plenty of great product out there, some of the best ever in my opinion in terms of quality and performances. However, the model is different. There needs to be a correction on the number of girls wanting to pursue commercial porn scenes..... there are still to many who think this is the great days of a decade a go when just existing could get you 10 or more scenes a month. Agents and recruiters still want to hold to the old model of trying to get mass numbers of girls in the business with big promises, only to have the reality that the business can not fulfill promises to that many women anymore. There are girls who have made good incomes with camming, clips4sale ,etc... I think this really should be the future for women wanting to make money with their bodies. Be in control, not be at risk of being bullied on a set or taken advantage of by an agent who also is making less because there are fewer scenes out there and then pressures the girl to escort. As for your other comment about people needing porn because they don't get laid. Yes, that is part of the market. However, a lot of us are healthy sexually active people and we watch porn because we enjoy it, not because we can't get sex in the real world. A healthy porn consumer can often have more sex because they become more confident in their sexuality, more open minded, and that makes them more attractive to people. I am a far more exciting and comprehensive lover as the years went by because of watching porn and incorporating seduction techniques, moves, and things of that nature when being with a partner. Edited by - A_Fan on 2/9/2017 9:41:10 PM [Link]

ArielBlue Member The new face of extreme hardcore 207 Posts 7/16	Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 9:52PM I am so frustrated with the industry RN Not only am I not allowed to be negative, but agencies have been giving me the runaround. I haven't heard back from anyone except one person I emailed. Others claim they have "waitlists" which is complete bullshit because no agency except Spiegler girls has a waitlist. If anything is going to die agencies are on thier way out. Contact macimayxo@gmail.com Twitter @Maci_MayXO [Link]
darthroc Member 754 Posts 4/14	Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 12:12AM ^^ Yeah I dont think all the girls realize just how great the competition is. As a porn consumer I have a rule for myself. If Im going to waste my sexual energy on a woman that I have no emotional connection with, that I dont even know, and is not even in the same room as me, - especially if she is getting fucked by another man - she had better be AWESOME. Also, all the girls should start out first doing only topless photography or maybe even non nude. If guys see you and are not salivating for you to do porn, its probably not worth even trying to do porn because you probably wont be successful. [Link]
matchmaker Senior Member 24909 Posts 4/05	Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 2:17AM Flash wrote: matchmaker wrote: I think the porn industry needs to figure out a way where porn fans can view porn for free, but the porn companies can still make money (like through advertisements and commercials for clips on their own sites or some other ways). Click to expand An honest query, if you are giving away the porn only making money off advertisements for porn, where does the money that is profit come from? Since your competitors would also be giving it away, it seems like the only money that would be coming in is advertising free porn? Click to expand Maybe each porn company can make some additional money by making special custom videos where fans (who are willing to pay a particular amount) can request a certain type of scene with certain performers. Some fans might be willing to pay for the exact type of scene they want to see. I've noticed that some pornstars make custom videos/scenes for their own website, so porn companies could do the same thing. Edited by - matchmaker on 2/10/2017 2:22:56 AM [Link]
Simple Simon Senior Member 12302 Posts 2/15	Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 3:48AM Peter Mc wrote: There will always be nerds who can't get laid ...[so] We'll always need porn" Click to expand Ummm ... do we really need to see comments like that on a porn forum? (I see enough of them on certain types of "equality" forums.) Edited by - Simple Simon on 2/10/2017 8:40:14 AM [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 4:09AM A_Fan wrote: iTunes, and now the subscription streaming, has turned most music people into paying customers... As for your other comment about people needing porn because they don't get laid. Yes, that is part of the market. However, a lot of us are healthy sexually active people and we watch porn because we enjoy it, not because we can't get sex in the real world... Click to expand I think the first part is wishful thinking. Most young people (under 20) that I know have never bought music, digital or physical. Except when their parents or relatives buy them an Itunes card for Xmas or something. Live tours again are only really profitable for huge artists. Most mid-level artists make more money off tshirt sales on tour than what they collect at the door or from the promoter. People talk a big game about supporting live music but in fact audience numbers for live music at clubs (where the vast majority of bands play and try to make a living) are way down. People seem to go to two or three big festivals a year and that's it. But even those attendance numbers are on a downward slide and several big festivals are struggling or dying. Many people are predicting the 'festival bubble' will burst if it isn't doing so already. The second part I fully agree with. If it was just 'nerds' who couldn't get laid watching porn, porn would never have been as big as it was in its heyday or as ubiquitous as it is today. Plus, even 'nerds' get laid eventually. Edited by - BlackSix on 2/10/2017 4:20:19 AM [Link]
A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 8:30AM BlackSix wrote: I think the first part is wishful thinking. Most young people (under 20) that I know have never bought music, digital or physical. Except when their parents or relatives buy them an Itunes card for Xmas or something. Edited by - BlackSix on 2/10/2017 4:20:19 AM Click to expand Every young person I meet or know , and I know a lot through business, gym, etc.... are subscribing to spotify, apple music, and those types of services.. for their phones and tablets. It is a hell of a lot more convenient to pay 10 bucks a month to have access to a million songs, than spend hours and hours on pirate sites downloading individual songs, etc etc.... like young people did 15 years ago. I am not sure you realize how much time it takes to pick and chose a hundred songs from a pirate service and get them onto your device. While I know very clearly this model pays the artists shit, it still has them as paying customers instead of putting zero dollars into the market. Although using 20 as your cutoff is a bit unfair because that "young mentality" expands into the mid 20s.... under 20s often don't have money or are not used to paying for stuff thanks to parents.... If you think nobody young subscribes to a music service, We live in different worlds I guess... Edited by - A_Fan on 2/10/2017 8:34:43 AM [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 8:34AM ^ Same here. I teach freshmen, have a stepson in his early 20s, and work in a manual labor job with a bunch of early 20-somethings and they all have apple music and/or pay for music through itunes. They might occasionally torrent something but in general, these other paid forms are more convenient. This goes back to my point about access and platforms. Edit-typo Edited by - Gore Gore Girl on 2/10/2017 8:35:34 AM [Link]
Smiler Grogan All-Star Member the war cry 14790 Posts 1/08	Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 9:17PM At the end of the day, whether music is being ripped or gotten legally, musicians/writers aren't seeing much income from it. We have all heard about how streaming doesn't it get you much. . The thing is, to succeed in the live arena, you have to be at the top of the food chain like Adele or Beyonce. As industry veteran producer/artist Steve Albini shows in this exhuastive breakdown, the average touring band, when all is said and done, might as well be working at a 7-11. Translating the similar problems to porn, you see the problem. Some girls can make some cash from dancing. Some girls sell "merch" (which in this case would be sex toys) but in both cases you have to be a huge, top 10 star. And pron will never attract "legitimate" advertisers. Whether on radio, streaming, or through inclusion in movies or commercials, that's the big thing keeping recorded music afloat. Also, vinyl sales were pretty big last year, but again, not applicable to porn. And as mentioned in Maci's thread, there's an endless, bottomless pit of about-to-turn-18-year-olds arriving off the bus every day it seems. We have Porn-Inflation. There will always be porn itself of course. The Industry, like the OP stated, is indeed in a state of flux. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 3:20AM A_Fan wrote: If you think nobody young subscribes to a music service, We live in different worlds I guess... Click to expand Most people I know use streaming serices, etc but don't pay for it. Strictly anecdotal so I wouldn't claim it as a fact. If I think about it these are a lot of music nerds or hipsters who are more into music than more casual listeners and so not broadly representative. They get their digital music for free and buy the albums they like on vinyl and cassettes (yes, cassettes). It's a few years out of date but this Nielsen study suggests that most users of streaming services don't pay for it. Since that was two years ago the numbers have probably improved but from what I last read these streaming services have yet to actually turn a profit. Edited by - BlackSix on 2/11/2017 4:59:28 AM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10081 Posts 3/10	Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 1:39PM Smiler Grogan wrote: At the end of the day, whether music is being ripped or gotten legally, musicians/writers aren't seeing much income from it. Click to expand I have to take exception to this because although it's true that artist don't see as much profit from music as they used to do. They still see some when people pay for it. They see none when people steal it. I don't think the industry would be where it is today if the sources of illegal porn weren't so prevalent and easily available. [Link]
A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 6:59PM BlackSix wrote: A_Fan wrote: If you think nobody young subscribes to a music service, We live in different worlds I guess... Click to expand Most people I know use streaming serices, etc but don't pay for it. Click to expand Considering the subscriber numbers for Apple Music and Spotify, I find that you and I still live in different worlds. Also, I don't know how to pirate Apple Music, Spotify, etc as they have secure logins , etc.. so if most of the people you know are pirating these things, someone needs to remind them the damage they are causing. We are all adults here, even young ones, time to understand that no matter your financial situation, there is zero excuse for not being willing to pay a mere 10 dollars a month to legally stream almost every song every produced commercially. Yeah, the artists don't get much anymore. That is the unfortunate end result of all this. Single song choices by iTunes and their competitors were a way to recapture the piracy market, streaming services is another way at a flat rate per month. However, it is something and for any intelligent adult to not be willing to pay the minimal fee for the main streaming services is disgraceful. I could understand the case in 1999 when we were all buying 20 dollar CDs just for one or two songs we liked, and suddenly we get high speed internet and can get individual songs on pirate sites. With the prices for legal content now being so low, whether it be buying single songs, 9 dollar albums, or 10 dollar a month streaming..... there is no excuse to pirate it. Why do we here at ADT pay for porn... because we know what has happened due to piracy so we contribute our little corner of the world so we are not part of the problem. Considering how the markets have come up with options to re capture pirates with low cost services, there is no excuse . Edited by - A_Fan on 2/11/2017 7:01:34 PM [Link]
Simple Simon Senior Member 12302 Posts 2/15	Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 7:16PM ^^ & ^ I think we need to distinguish between an artist being "paid", and being adequately remunerated. I mean technically, sending an artist $0.01 means the artist is being "paid". [Link]
Smiler Grogan All-Star Member the war cry 14790 Posts 1/08	Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 7:55PM ^ Yes. I said people weren't getting much income from streaming/downloads, not zero. Look at the link; a guy who's Meghan Trainor song got 178M plays on Spotify got paid less than $6000. It's income, but a far cry from the 70s and 80s. It used to be, getting even one hit single on the radio could net a songwriter half a million in profit at the end of the day, more if it ended up on a movie or something. In the late 70s when album sales took off, people were getting royalties of anywhere from 50 cents to 1.25 per album. Which, when talking about selling even just 2 million copies is significant.* But very few people are doing 2 million in hard sales anymore. As these end of year 2016 record sales charts, show, only Drake, Adele and Beyonce had "traditional" cd/vinyl sales over a million. The terms TEA and SEA refer to [invalid URL removed]Billboard Nielsen's computing of digital and streaming. And @A_fan, while I don't mean to speak for Blacksix, I believe when he said people use streaming services but don't pay for it, he meant people use use the "free" sections of Spotify or Google Play (w/ads) as opposed to the monthly pay/no advertisements. Of course, all sorts of fees have famously cut into those profits -- record company advances, manager's fees, etc. -- which is why many musicians claim "there's never* been any money in music." Edited by - Smiler Grogan on 2/11/2017 7:56:53 PM [Link]
shalalin Senior Member 1733 Posts 11/07	Posted - Feb 12 2017 : 7:10AM ^ Record labels cutting out the artists even further than before is not exactly caused by the shift to digital from brick-and-mortar sales though... Sounds more like what's happened in recent years is something the music industry would have loved to do in the past as well, and the shift in distribution technology merely served as the occasion that allowed it to rewrite its contractual arrangements at the expense of the artists. Edited by - shalalin on 2/12/2017 7:12:10 AM [Link]
cormac Senior Member 1093 Posts 1/14	Posted - Feb 12 2017 : 8:46AM This thread is rapidly becoming "Is the music industry DOOMED". [Link]
Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Feb 12 2017 : 10:38AM To me going out on a pub on a day after winning 2000 bucks on horses paying 20 bucks for a double whiskey with no one there, and sitting alone with a drink that turned out to be less than one inch fluid, doomed that pub going thing for ever to me. Haven't been out since that, it's soon to be a five years anniversary. 20 bucks out and I get half a bottle at least a little longer down the street on any given working day. And a great porn flick to keep too some week or two further down the time schedule if I go there. So to me this goes down to value. I don't think no product is doomed as long as it's worth spending 20 bucks on. [Link]

Author

Post

jefallbel
Member

16 Posts
1/17

Posted - Feb 7 2017 : 4:42PM

Let's talk about this, shall we. Is the porn industry doomed? I say yeah. I say within 20 years the porn industry is going to be obsolete. There will be no porn industry! There might be a few porn companies still going but not like it is right now. And this all started with the introduction of the tube sites 10 years ago. I say the porn industry was at its absolute peak around the year 2005. I mean back then guys were doing gonzo movies doing 2, 3, 4 scenes a day making like $500 a scene. Some guys were raking in over $100K a year banging hot chicks up the ass. Sure beats working at McDonald's flipping burgers for minimum wage. And the girls. The girls were becoming multi-millionaires like Jenna Jameson. And she only did a handful a movies a year. Now fast forward to present day 2017. Many of the top male talent have retired because there's no work anymore. Guys like Dave Hardman, Rick Masters, Rod Fontana, Vince Vouyer, Brian Surewood, Nick East, Steve Hatcher, Joel Lawrence, Tony Tedeschi, John West. All of those porn greats are no longer performing. And the girls. Instead of becoming millionaires they're still doing their scenes but some are feature dancing, and hooking on the side. Girls are lucky to be making $100K a year nowadays. Gonzo is out and parodies are in. And they're almost all parodied out now. They've done almost all the good movies worth doing a parody of already. And right now you could pretty much go to a tube site and download full length 2 hour porn movies for free which back in the day would've cost like $50 a pop. You could easily amass a library of hundreds of free full length porn movies.
Do you agree?

[Link]

grmi-
Member

Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
429 Posts
1/10

Posted - Feb 7 2017 : 5:18PM

Let me tell you something If I may : I don't understand why the male talents are all the same. I do understand that porn actress ask the same guys but I don't feel really close to those guys because they are way muscular and handsome than me. I do think large penises can be a trend setter and a production value for porn studios but I would prefer to see more different casts doing sex with my favorite porn stars. Diversity and variety are the keywords here. I don't have to mention names but it's between 5 to 10 people who alternate hundreds of woman.

[Link]

Aya
Senior Member

All The Cool Girls Are Lesbians
7439 Posts
6/14

Posted - Feb 7 2017 : 6:24PM

In it's current form maybe. But people are sexual beings, and as long as the majority treats the subject as taboo and shameful, porn will always have a purpose. It may take on a different form, but it's not going to die. At least until we create affordable sex robots for everyone.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 2:32AM

Brian Surewood is in prison, not retired.

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darthroc
Member

754 Posts
4/14

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 6:33AM

There is a lot of truth to what you say and the industry definitely has some serious problems that it has to deal with. I think that is reflected in less scenes on the pay sites and the increasing amount of stars offering content on those crappy clips sites where each clip costs something like $25 a clip. Now we seem to be back to where we started with VHS in terms of affordability. (Thanks a lot tube sites!!!!) But have you been on a tube site lately? These days they offer such poor service I think it is way more rational just to pay for it. If that poor service continues hopefully they wont have as much of an effect. The other problem is with the lesser amount of scenes, your favorite porn stars have less of a chance of becoming successful and will therefore eventually retire early.

[Link]

ScottMcGowan
Your Choice

"Skip the sex. I wanna see the stories." -Scott on Girlfriends Films
149 Posts
7/10

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 8:12AM

I've worked in adult Video-on-Demand and retail since 2001, and here are my thoughts...
Porn is in the midst of yet another evolution. It evolved when home video (e.g. VHS) became a part of the average consumers lives. It evolved when the internet proliferated. It evolved after the market saturation/rise of tubesites of the mid 2000's. And it's happening again.
I think it's safe to say that there will continue to be professional production of porn for the foreseeable future. But direct to consumer content in the form of self publishing (cams, manyvids, clips4sale, personal sites etc.) will likely continue to trend upward.
Amateur/semi-pro production and distribution is more accessible than ever thanks to the affordability or pro-sumer grade equipment and easier than ever thanks to the variety of publishing platforms. It also allows for niche content to more easily find it's audience - something the larger, more broadminded production companies would/could never focus on. There would be virtually no return on investment.
So is porn doomed? No. Will it continue to take on different forms and cater to different audiences through different means? Yes.

[Link]

cormac
Senior Member

1093 Posts
1/14

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 8:27AM

Porn has been with us since the Romans and Ancient Greeks; perhaps even longer. It never goes away, it just re-invents itself according to changes in culture and taste. It won't go away - ever. I like to think that one day holographic images in 3D will perform porn wherever we want. It will be as if the performers are in the same room.

[Link]

ScottMcGowan
Your Choice

"Skip the sex. I wanna see the stories." -Scott on Girlfriends Films
149 Posts
7/10

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 8:39AM

And just to zero in on one of your points...

Having worked in the business through that period, I can tell you with confidence that even without the tube sites, that rate of production couldn't have been sustained. Everyone was trying to cash in on the porn boom and the market was flooded with product. Unfortunately, even the 2nd and 3rd tier studios (especially the gonzo specialists) were still trying to charge a premium price even if their production costs were next to nothing.
As a result, the product became, in many cases, disposable. After a title was out for more than 30-60 days it had virtually no value, barring that odd major release from the likes of Digital Playground, Wicked, Adam & Eve, Evil Angel etc.
While the amount of productions hitting the streets, the retail price, contract stars making huge bucks* and all the other window dressings looked good in 2005, a lot of companies were barely breaking even if at all in the long term.
From my view, the tsunami of mediocre product at a premium price (and thus, disenfranchised customers) played as much of a role in so many companies going by the way side as tube sites did.
*When it comes to contract stars and their big salaries in that era, they weren't just expected to make movies. They also did loads of promo work, travelling to store/club/fan convention appearances, and anything else the studio could cook up for them to promote the brand. And feature dancing has been a mainstay as supplemental income for decades.

[Link]

SP_Love
Senior Member

"Freaky Deakies Need Love Too"
1181 Posts
2/11

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 9:48AM

Blaming piracy and condoms for the industry's financial woes is bullshit. Porn producers just need to adapt to a changing climate. For as long as men have dicks we'll always have perverts such as my self who will pay for jerk-offable pics and videos. A female performer who's in the business made an insightful statement in my opinion that I happen to agree with...
"Porn as we know it is dying and it's because producers/directors shoot what THEY want and what makes THEIR dicks hard, not what the fans want. Not all producers of course, but most."
The porn industry is struggling because the free market system is working perfectly. Simply put If you ignore what your consumers want then you lose profits. The good news is that someone always fills the void and eventually adult entertainment companies will give their potential customers what they want.
"Twist Your Head Around; It's All Around You"

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 10:51AM

He's been out of prison for over 2 years

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Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 11:14AM

Do you seriously believe it's that simple? The reason for a declining industry is due to several factors. Ripping off consumers or ignoring customer taste is likely part of it, but that doesn't mean the other factors don't play a role. There are millions of people out there who love the porn they watch and steal it anyway. Government interference, refusal to incorporate porn into mainstream media platforms, tube sites, and a societal attitude that porn is trash and not worth spending money on are also factors.

[Link]

SP_Love
Senior Member

"Freaky Deakies Need Love Too"
1181 Posts
2/11

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 11:52AM

^
I do actually believe it's that simple. People steal music files and yet we're seeing a multi-billion dollar music industry. Most people don't mind paying for stuff when they feel like the product is worthy of their hard earned dollars. Some one previously made a great point of how porn's business model has had to adapt over the decades to keep up with changing technologies (film to digital etc). I agree that the porn industry is ready for another transition. What will that look like? I have no idea.
We're living in an age where everybody and their mother has an opinion about everything and posts it everywhere online. There is literally no reason for porn producers not to know what you want to see in porn unless they really don't give a fuck what you want (I've actually heard a director admit to this).
"Twist Your Head Around; It's All Around You"
Edited by - love on 2/8/2017 11:55:32 AM

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Flash

Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 12:33PM

No, they don't care about what you want. What you want may not make a profit or enough profit. They care what the plural you (a tense we don't have in English) wants but not the individual you. There is a thread where one guy wants unwashed asses with poop on them. Should the industry cater to him? But then I like adult films with a decent plot, acting, and decent production values. Should the industry cater to me? I don't want asses with poop on them. How do they fix that? Maybe you want all sex films with nothing but DPs and washed asses. How do they cater to the "you?"
If you think tube sites have no effect on profits then you haven't studied their effects on any industry at all.

[Link]

Quorrl
Senior Member

2835 Posts
3/11

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 12:44PM

...as on ADT, for example. This forum is a place where everybody and their dog are posting their opinion.
But could a producer use these opinions here to get a clue what he should shoot? According to you, yes. But I don't think so. When you read 50 users' opinions, you still would have to make 35 different scenes to fulfill their very different desires, fetishes etc.
I can understand why still some directors/producers go with their gut.
In a way you're right: the atomization of porn into thousands of individual can girls and small sites that can reach fans with individual custom videos and shows that are ´tailor-made exactly for their fetish or urges, is a way of the market functioning.

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 12:44PM

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Heavyx
New Member

5 Posts
1/17

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 1:00PM

I don't see the porn industry doomed. In fact. I think porn industry is now doing quite fine with VR-technology among us. As VR user it's hard to find porn for free from tube sites and you do have to download now your videos now just like in the old days to get the settings properly for your headset.

[Link]

SP_Love
Senior Member

"Freaky Deakies Need Love Too"
1181 Posts
2/11

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 2:13PM

But do most porn producers actually care what the "plural you" wants? I'm convinced that the average producer/director goes by what the individual producer/director is turned on by. Or they're out of touch thinking that they know what the "plural you" wants when they really don't have a clue. As for the guy who wants to view porn with shitty asses if he looks hard enough on the web he can probably find someone who'll do a personalized video for him.

Should Vivid or Digital Playground funnel all of their financial resources into hardcore scat porn because of this guy? Obviously not.

Who owns the major porn tube sites?

"Twist Your Head Around; It's All Around You"

[Link]

ArielBlue
Member

The new face of extreme hardcore
207 Posts
7/16

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 2:23PM

Porn will never die.
The profitability of it however... well the truth is we just have to find a new way to capitalize on it because this current model of shooting is just unsustainable.
The market today is oversaturated with women trying to get into porn. With new girls shooting a handful of scenes and then leaving the industry.
Directors and producers shoot what they want to shoot. If they listened to the fans and read these threads as I know many directors do (one even commented on this thread), they would know thier market.
Sadly many girls are forced to fuck the directors to get shot. No it's not casting couch, but off camera play is not only expected, sometimes it's required.
Contact macimayxo@gmail.com Twitter @Maci_MayXO

[Link]

darthroc
Member

754 Posts
4/14

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 3:00PM

I think you have a good point with what you say in regards to the plural "you". Although I have never met any porn fan that likes fake lips or thinks that it improves the look of any woman. And yet the industry doesn't seem to be doing anything about it.

[Link]

Mister Fahrenheit

All-Star Member

Meh
4655 Posts
10/13

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 3:19PM

^ Not sure what the industry can do about plastic surgeries since that's a choice of the performers' themselves.

[Link]

A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 4:12PM

It's always been this way ...It's much more magnified now because there are 100 times as many girls wanting to do porn scenes as there is work available. So directors can play favorites with all the leverage
agents are also an issue... if a girl refuses a "private" they may not get booked.. agents are making less these days too... they are hungry
porn is not dying, it is different and is evolving... the women need to empower themselves and make their own success through all the means out there in the world. Commercially produced porn scenes are much harder to make money with so there is much less work....... i consider it a correction.... less girls will join porn and seek other methods like camming, and there will be more balance with number of performers and scenes over time
Edited by - A_Fan on 2/8/2017 4:14:22 PM

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shalalin
Senior Member

1733 Posts
11/07

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 5:04PM

Of course, as another poster pointed out a little while ago, Brazzers/MindGeek is likely datamining their tube sites to find out what potential customers want (in large aggregates), and using it to tailor their paid offerings to it... It's all a little bit more complex than just "tube sites are ruining the industry". (I know you didn't say that, but it's a common refrain.) They're ruining certain parts of the industry, but that's always going on in any line of business outside of boom periods. And as ScottMcGowan mentioned above, the last boom period also served to support the creation of loads of utter dreck - dreck that nobody remembers anymore, just like bad Hollywood movies and bad mainstream music are frequently forgotten within a few years.
I agree with your larger point though: Far too many people are harbouring the mistaken impression that the porn industry is "not catering to customers" simply because they don't want to admit that their own personal tastes are too niche to be catered for by mainstream porn.
Edited by - shalalin on 2/8/2017 5:06:03 PM

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moebius22
Senior Member

1528 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 8 2017 : 5:31PM

Fewer big productions and a lot more low budget POV junk.

[Link]

Dildoslime
Member

177 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 2:10AM

Porn is always going to ride the rollercoaster. But, I believe it's currently jumping the shark with how far the scene content has strayed from mainstream sex. Seriously, today's porn is more about the train wreck than it is about sex.

[Link]

matchmaker
Senior Member

24909 Posts
4/05

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 3:26AM

I think the porn industry needs to figure out a way where porn fans can view porn for free, but the porn companies can still make money (like through advertisements and commercials for clips on their own sites or some other ways).
I can see how tough it is for porn companies to try to convince fans to pay for porn instead of viewing it for free somewhere else. The porn industry needs to adjust to how other industries make money. In other industries, you don't usually hear companies say, "I know that you can get that product for free somewhere else, but how about paying $30.00 for it through our company instead?" That wouldn't work for other industries so I don't understand why the porn industry works that way.
Edited by - matchmaker on 2/9/2017 3:30:07 AM

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 3:43AM

Didn't know that, thanks Mike.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 3:49AM

The music industry has lost 50 to 70 percent of their profits since downloading. Digital sales and streaming don't come close to making up for the massive losses. Beyonce and the like continue to make a lot of money but probably less than they would have pre-download era and indie level artists and labels can no longer come even close to making a living.

[Link]

Unbeliever
Member

418 Posts
1/15

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 7:51AM

Perhaps, but not for the reasons that you stated. I imagine the sex-bots they are working on is more likely to be the reason the porn industry dies :D

[Link]

Flash

Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 11:51AM

An honest query, if you are giving away the porn only making money off advertisements for porn, where does the money that is profit come from? Since your competitors would also be giving it away, it seems like the only money that would be coming in is advertising free porn?
Edited by - flash on 2/9/2017 12:14:59 PM

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Dread
Senior Member

Latex and boobs
5085 Posts
3/07

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 12:15PM

I think porn is going to shift to the performers owning and selling their content with clips4sale and cam stuff, with the occasional content trades i suppose.
----Dread's Twitter----

[Link]

snufish
Member

580 Posts
4/14

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 12:19PM

Porn producers work with tubes. They sell them their back catalog and upload previews of their current & upcoming scenes. Vr porn will not save porn. Clip sites are a god send. I can get the exact type of porn i want instead of buying a 5 scene dvd with vanilla sex and monotonous content. The consumer is winning. I know a guy in CA with a RED camera doing private videos with top pornstars and paying them well. Clip sites allow porn valley rejects to make their own porn and sell to the customer without going thru the exclusive boys club known as the porn valley.

[Link]

moebius22
Senior Member

1528 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 2:42PM

A RED camera for porn is overkill, but thanks for the post.
Edited by - moebius22 on 2/9/2017 2:54:54 PM

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Peter Mc
Member

895 Posts
10/16

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 5:34PM

I do think porn has problems with rampant piracy and girls are now dropping out as they are not making enough money or finding enough work.
The comment that piracy is not impacting on music is simply not true. Lots of bands basically now say that there is very little money in album sales and they tour constantly in order to make money. There are some acts who continue to shift large amounts of records but it is nothing like it was before the internet age.
What will likely save porn is new technologies. I don't have VR yet as it's too expensive. Once it becomes more affordable to all though that is probably where porn will go. That will be a lot harder for pirates to put up on tube sites I would think. Then you go perhaps to holograms, sexbots in the future maybe.
There will always be nerds who can't get laid and there will always be perverts who want to see crazy stuff. We'll always need porn in some form or other so it will never die.

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10081 Posts
3/10

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 8:55PM

That's what I thought. I mean how can you hope to make any money from advertising sales when you are already giving away the product you are advertising. Unless I am mistaken (which is not uncommon) the profit sites make from advertising on tube sites comes from the people who use the links to join the sites being advertised but in a system where the porn is always free than where would the money come from? I mean supermarkets have these little tasting booths where you can try an advertised product and that's a great marketing tool but it would stop being great if after tasting the products the clerk gave each person a free box.
If tube sites were such amazing marketing tools than the industry would not be where it is now.

[Link]

A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 9:37PM

Points on your two comments:
Yes piracy hurt music a lot. What it did is change the industry from full album sales into single song choices. iTunes came out as a single song platform in response to all the filesharing going on out there (Napster was one of the biggest at allowing single song). So, instead of an artist getting a cut of a 20 dollar CD, they started to get a cut of a 1 dollar song download in an era where people were flocking to file sharing and not paying a penny.
iTunes, and now the subscription streaming, has turned most music people into paying customers. However, this model carries so much different revenue and the artists make very little. Live tours are where the money is at now. Perhaps a big star sells a million album downloads online, for most, that is long gone. The business , right or wrong, evolved and people can't keep living in the past dreaming about the good old days.
Porn needs to evolve... many of them did with membership sites allowing scene downloads and moving away from sales of physical media on a per release basis. Porn is being paid for, in numbers that support the current output. There is plenty of great product out there, some of the best ever in my opinion in terms of quality and performances. However, the model is different. There needs to be a correction on the number of girls wanting to pursue commercial porn scenes..... there are still to many who think this is the great days of a decade a go when just existing could get you 10 or more scenes a month. Agents and recruiters still want to hold to the old model of trying to get mass numbers of girls in the business with big promises, only to have the reality that the business can not fulfill promises to that many women anymore.
There are girls who have made good incomes with camming, clips4sale ,etc... I think this really should be the future for women wanting to make money with their bodies. Be in control, not be at risk of being bullied on a set or taken advantage of by an agent who also is making less because there are fewer scenes out there and then pressures the girl to escort.
As for your other comment about people needing porn because they don't get laid. Yes, that is part of the market. However, a lot of us are healthy sexually active people and we watch porn because we enjoy it, not because we can't get sex in the real world. A healthy porn consumer can often have more sex because they become more confident in their sexuality, more open minded, and that makes them more attractive to people. I am a far more exciting and comprehensive lover as the years went by because of watching porn and incorporating seduction techniques, moves, and things of that nature when being with a partner.
Edited by - A_Fan on 2/9/2017 9:41:10 PM

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ArielBlue
Member

The new face of extreme hardcore
207 Posts
7/16

Posted - Feb 9 2017 : 9:52PM

I am so frustrated with the industry RN
Not only am I not allowed to be negative, but agencies have been giving me the runaround.
I haven't heard back from anyone except one person I emailed.
Others claim they have "waitlists" which is complete bullshit because no agency except Spiegler girls has a waitlist.
If anything is going to die agencies are on thier way out.

Contact macimayxo@gmail.com Twitter @Maci_MayXO

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darthroc
Member

754 Posts
4/14

Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 12:12AM

^^ Yeah I dont think all the girls realize just how great the competition is. As a porn consumer I have a rule for myself. If Im going to waste my sexual energy on a woman that I have no emotional connection with, that I dont even know, and is not even in the same room as me, - especially if she is getting fucked by another man - she had better be AWESOME.
Also, all the girls should start out first doing only topless photography or maybe even non nude. If guys see you and are not salivating for you to do porn, its probably not worth even trying to do porn because you probably wont be successful.

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matchmaker
Senior Member

24909 Posts
4/05

Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 2:17AM

Maybe each porn company can make some additional money by making special custom videos where fans (who are willing to pay a particular amount) can request a certain type of scene with certain performers. Some fans might be willing to pay for the exact type of scene they want to see.
I've noticed that some pornstars make custom videos/scenes for their own website, so porn companies could do the same thing.
Edited by - matchmaker on 2/10/2017 2:22:56 AM

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Simple Simon
Senior Member

12302 Posts
2/15

Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 3:48AM

Ummm ... do we really need to see comments like that on a porn forum? (I see enough of them on certain types of "equality" forums.)
Edited by - Simple Simon on 2/10/2017 8:40:14 AM

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 4:09AM

I think the first part is wishful thinking. Most young people (under 20) that I know have never bought music, digital or physical. Except when their parents or relatives buy them an Itunes card for Xmas or something.
Live tours again are only really profitable for huge artists. Most mid-level artists make more money off tshirt sales on tour than what they collect at the door or from the promoter. People talk a big game about supporting live music but in fact audience numbers for live music at clubs (where the vast majority of bands play and try to make a living) are way down. People seem to go to two or three big festivals a year and that's it. But even those attendance numbers are on a downward slide and several big festivals are struggling or dying. Many people are predicting the 'festival bubble' will burst if it isn't doing so already.
The second part I fully agree with. If it was just 'nerds' who couldn't get laid watching porn, porn would never have been as big as it was in its heyday or as ubiquitous as it is today. Plus, even 'nerds' get laid eventually.
Edited by - BlackSix on 2/10/2017 4:20:19 AM

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A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 8:30AM

Every young person I meet or know , and I know a lot through business, gym, etc.... are subscribing to spotify, apple music, and those types of services.. for their phones and tablets. It is a hell of a lot more convenient to pay 10 bucks a month to have access to a million songs, than spend hours and hours on pirate sites downloading individual songs, etc etc.... like young people did 15 years ago. I am not sure you realize how much time it takes to pick and chose a hundred songs from a pirate service and get them onto your device.
While I know very clearly this model pays the artists shit, it still has them as paying customers instead of putting zero dollars into the market.
Although using 20 as your cutoff is a bit unfair because that "young mentality" expands into the mid 20s.... under 20s often don't have money or are not used to paying for stuff thanks to parents....
If you think nobody young subscribes to a music service, We live in different worlds I guess...
Edited by - A_Fan on 2/10/2017 8:34:43 AM

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Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 8:34AM

^ Same here. I teach freshmen, have a stepson in his early 20s, and work in a manual labor job with a bunch of early 20-somethings and they all have apple music and/or pay for music through itunes. They might occasionally torrent something but in general, these other paid forms are more convenient. This goes back to my point about access and platforms.
Edit-typo
Edited by - Gore Gore Girl on 2/10/2017 8:35:34 AM

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Smiler Grogan

All-Star Member

the war cry
14790 Posts
1/08

Posted - Feb 10 2017 : 9:17PM

At the end of the day, whether music is being ripped or gotten legally, musicians/writers aren't seeing much income from it.
We have all heard about how streaming doesn't it get you much. . The thing is, to succeed in the live arena, you have to be at the top of the food chain like Adele or Beyonce. As industry veteran producer/artist Steve Albini shows in this exhuastive breakdown, the average touring band, when all is said and done, might as well be working at a 7-11.
Translating the similar problems to porn, you see the problem. Some girls can make some cash from dancing. Some girls sell "merch" (which in this case would be sex toys) but in both cases you have to be a huge, top 10 star.
And pron will never attract "legitimate" advertisers. Whether on radio, streaming, or through inclusion in movies or commercials, that's the big thing keeping recorded music afloat. Also, vinyl sales were pretty big last year, but again, not applicable to porn.
And as mentioned in Maci's thread, there's an endless, bottomless pit of about-to-turn-18-year-olds arriving off the bus every day it seems. We have Porn-Inflation.
There will always be porn itself of course. The Industry, like the OP stated, is indeed in a state of flux.

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 3:20AM

Most people I know use streaming serices, etc but don't pay for it. Strictly anecdotal so I wouldn't claim it as a fact. If I think about it these are a lot of music nerds or hipsters who are more into music than more casual listeners and so not broadly representative. They get their digital music for free and buy the albums they like on vinyl and cassettes (yes, cassettes).
It's a few years out of date but this Nielsen study suggests that most users of streaming services don't pay for it. Since that was two years ago the numbers have probably improved but from what I last read these streaming services have yet to actually turn a profit.
Edited by - BlackSix on 2/11/2017 4:59:28 AM

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pat362
Senior Member

10081 Posts
3/10

Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 1:39PM

I have to take exception to this because although it's true that artist don't see as much profit from music as they used to do. They still see some when people pay for it. They see none when people steal it. I don't think the industry would be where it is today if the sources of illegal porn weren't so prevalent and easily available.

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A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 6:59PM

Considering the subscriber numbers for Apple Music and Spotify, I find that you and I still live in different worlds. Also, I don't know how to pirate Apple Music, Spotify, etc as they have secure logins , etc.. so if most of the people you know are pirating these things, someone needs to remind them the damage they are causing. We are all adults here, even young ones, time to understand that no matter your financial situation, there is zero excuse for not being willing to pay a mere 10 dollars a month to legally stream almost every song every produced commercially.
Yeah, the artists don't get much anymore. That is the unfortunate end result of all this. Single song choices by iTunes and their competitors were a way to recapture the piracy market, streaming services is another way at a flat rate per month. However, it is something and for any intelligent adult to not be willing to pay the minimal fee for the main streaming services is disgraceful. I could understand the case in 1999 when we were all buying 20 dollar CDs just for one or two songs we liked, and suddenly we get high speed internet and can get individual songs on pirate sites. With the prices for legal content now being so low, whether it be buying single songs, 9 dollar albums, or 10 dollar a month streaming..... there is no excuse to pirate it.
Why do we here at ADT pay for porn... because we know what has happened due to piracy so we contribute our little corner of the world so we are not part of the problem. Considering how the markets have come up with options to re capture pirates with low cost services, there is no excuse .
Edited by - A_Fan on 2/11/2017 7:01:34 PM

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Simple Simon
Senior Member

12302 Posts
2/15

Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 7:16PM

^^ & ^ I think we need to distinguish between an artist being "paid", and being adequately remunerated. I mean technically, sending an artist $0.01 means the artist is being "paid".

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Smiler Grogan

All-Star Member

the war cry
14790 Posts
1/08

Posted - Feb 11 2017 : 7:55PM

^
Yes. I said people weren't getting much income from streaming/downloads, not zero. Look at the link; a guy who's Meghan Trainor song got 178M plays on Spotify got paid less than $6000. It's income, but a far cry from the 70s and 80s.
It used to be, getting even one hit single on the radio could net a songwriter half a million in profit at the end of the day, more if it ended up on a movie or something. In the late 70s when album sales took off, people were getting royalties of anywhere from 50 cents to 1.25 per album. Which, when talking about selling even just 2 million copies is significant.*
But very few people are doing 2 million in hard sales anymore. As these end of year 2016 record sales charts, show, only Drake, Adele and Beyonce had "traditional" cd/vinyl sales over a million. The terms TEA and SEA refer to [invalid URL removed]Billboard Nielsen's computing of digital and streaming.
And @A_fan, while I don't mean to speak for Blacksix, I believe when he said people use streaming services but don't pay for it, he meant people use use the "free" sections of Spotify or Google Play (w/ads) as opposed to the monthly pay/no advertisements.

*Of course, all sorts of fees have famously cut into those profits -- record company advances, manager's fees, etc. -- which is why many musicians claim "there's never been any money in music."
Edited by - Smiler Grogan on 2/11/2017 7:56:53 PM

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shalalin
Senior Member

1733 Posts
11/07

Posted - Feb 12 2017 : 7:10AM

^ Record labels cutting out the artists even further than before is not exactly caused by the shift to digital from brick-and-mortar sales though... Sounds more like what's happened in recent years is something the music industry would have loved to do in the past as well, and the shift in distribution technology merely served as the occasion that allowed it to rewrite its contractual arrangements at the expense of the artists.
Edited by - shalalin on 2/12/2017 7:12:10 AM

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cormac
Senior Member

1093 Posts
1/14

Posted - Feb 12 2017 : 8:46AM

This thread is rapidly becoming "Is the music industry DOOMED".

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Dragon Sign
Deactivated User

3381 Posts
12/13

Posted - Feb 12 2017 : 10:38AM

To me going out on a pub on a day after winning 2000 bucks on horses paying 20 bucks for a double whiskey with no one there, and sitting alone with a drink that turned out to be less than one inch fluid, doomed that pub going thing for ever to me. Haven't been out since that, it's soon to be a five years anniversary. 20 bucks out and I get half a bottle at least a little longer down the street on any given working day. And a great porn flick to keep too some week or two further down the time schedule if I go there. So to me this goes down to value. I don't think no product is doomed as long as it's worth spending 20 bucks on.

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