Darren James

Edited by - Lee O on 4/15/2004 6:59:18 PM

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The heck?

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From Sharon's own lips to Gene Ross on AdultFYI.com:

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Gene: Can you pinpoint where he might have picked this up at? We knew he was in Brazil.

Mitchell: I talked to T.T. Boy who was very helpful today. He and Mark Anthony were both helpful and they were both there today going over the partners and kind of describing the scenes that they had done. And there was a lot of non-condom work with the women. They did have tests. But they were ELIZA tests and you know from our past experience that can mask the antibody for quite some time.

Gene: When I hear Brazil, the first thing that goes through my mind is John Stagliano.

Mitchell: Thank you. Remember if any of those girls had a yeast infection or any type of bacterial infection, any kind of fluid coming from there is going to be 75% more transmittable if they had HIV than if they didn't have that bactrial infection. The shedding of those white cells in that chlamydia-gonorrhea-yeast infection, things like that, bacterial vaginosis really increases an HIV transmission rate. It might have been rough sex. One of the girls might have had chlamydia-gonorrhea. I don't think they check those tests down there. But my first guess would be Brazil. I talked to one of the actors and they didn't one to go into detail but he said to me there were other high risk behaviors. He wouldn't elaborate and I wouldn't know what that meant. That could be anything from transsexual and homosexual activities to needle play. Anything.

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Okay??? This was the information AIM Healthcare came out with. So what do we know? We know that it is in the highest probability that he contracted this thing in Brazil by entering into sexual situations with non-condom women and possibly transexual, homosexual or needle-play.

So...given this information, do you still think Katie's opinion sucks? Okay, it was a little harsh, but it got ya to read it didn't it? Sometimes a slap in the face is a good thing. The point of her piece was to say "if one person acts irresponsibly, all talent could pay the price."

There can be NO dispute that Darren acted irresponsibly and that doesn't mean Katie or anyone else speaking out doesn't give a shit about him. It's horrible and tragic, but in a situation like this we can't just coddle each other. As people who work in the biz, we have to throw out all sides and figure out better ways to stop it from happening again.

Katie's putting her ass on the line everyday, she is resonsible for girls everyday who do the same. Give her a fuckin' break and let her have some slack a little bit.

You got no problem jacking off to these girls but the minute one proves she's got a brain in her head you gotta tare her down.

Sincerely,

Wankus
KSEXradio.com

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The thing is, the exact source of the infection in this particular case, while certainly important to find, is only the tip of a much larger iceberg. It's how the industry deals with the problem, and what steps they take to prevent the problem from occuring again that is important, and relevant to our discussions here.

Just my opinion.

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As for Katie's comments. How would any of us here feel if they were the ones who had to tell a friend the news that somebody they worked with, somebody they thought was healthy, had HIV?

Max Booty
"She smells like angels ought to smell."
Frank Miller, Sin City

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Katie Morgan works with these girls everyday in her job working for Nasty Modeling. Two of the 12 girls, Jessica Dee and Melissa Arroyo are girls she has a professional relationship with and personal friendships with. She has seen what this has done to those two girls' lives - turned them upside down and we are only a few days into this.

Did TTBoy and Darren James intend to cause this? Nope, nobody would accuse them of that. But you sure as hell can take them to task for not considering what effect their actions could have on hundreds of other innocent people.

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I don't fault Katie for her letter, or you for posting it at all. I just want our discussions to stay on track.

I'm sad to say that regulation is probably the ONLY way the adult industry is going to agree on ANY kind of effective standards. And in the current times, I'm also sad to say that the government would sooner use this crisis to shut down hardcore porn than deign to give it legitimacy by regulating it. It is therefore VITALLY important that the industry work together in this situation for the greater good. By all means, take those who are to blame to task, whoever they are, but make no mistake--that alone is not going to solve the underlying problem.

Edited by - MLyons on 4/15/2004 6:46:54 PM

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Silent Jay - Host of the NON-Televised "Silent Jay Show"

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Fuck you TTBoy.

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Again I am not pointing blame at Darren directly, he just happened to be unlucky. He WAS participating in non-condom sex in Brazil this is a documented FACT. Whether or not the currant situation came from his last trip to Brazil is IRRELEVANT. That fact is that this situation has shined a light on the irresponsible practices of MANY performers in the adult community, NOT just Darren James.

My letter again, and all of the subsequent updates of the letter were meant to simply point that out. I am NOT pointing blame in this situation, I am pointing to the future in the hopes that others will learn from this tragedy. All it takes is one that much is a fact. It is also a fact that there are many others who have been far luckier than Darren James, but make no mistake; luck is the ONLY reason this hasn’t happened to someone else yet.

This IS a time for all of us to come together and work through this situation. It is also an opportunity for EACH of us to take a good look at our lives and the lives of those around us. This is one of the few jobs in the world where we are all DIRECTLY responsible for our selves, AND those we work with.

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Darren James is one of the most stand out guys in the industry who simply fucked up bigtime. Still nobody knows how he got it. It's still speculation he acquired HIV in Brazil. It could've been earlier for all we know.

I know Darren. He's not a needle abuser. He doesn't get drilled in the ass by trannies. But, then again, I don't get pinpoint on his personal life cause it's none of my business.

However, there's alot of girls who fuck without condoms in their personal life and don't give a fuck either. And there's alot of guys in the business that use needles, either drugs or injecting their dicks, or do male-male stuff.

It's so easy to criticize after the facts. Everyone knew the risks of going to Brazil and fucking 'tested' girls. Darren fucked up and now the entire industry is at the mercy of this fuck up. But it could've been anyone. Why it happened to a class act like Darren is beyond me.

Alot of you guys out there demand these acts.

"When will *bleep* do anal?"
"Double anal everything!"
"I only watch anal!"
"Convince her to do anal!"

Only time will tell. Cause mark my words, I spoke to AIM and test results are coming in and it'll be like a thermonuclear bomb hitting the adult industry.

WW

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Thanks for the post Katie.

Edited by - Harendotes on 4/15/2004 10:00:51 PM

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Again, the Blame Game is running rampant. In a statement meant to criticize playing Monday Morning Quarterback Chico unleashes a statement that re-directs the blame:

Alot of you guys out there demand these acts.

"When will *bleep* do anal?"
"Double anal everything!"
"I only watch anal!"
"Convince her to do anal!"

Hey, I can't say it's not a valid argument, but are you now blaming us, the consumers, for this?

kelly

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Once again, I appreciate the strong emotions involved here. I really do. I'm not a part of the industry and don't know these people, and I'm still certainly affected by it.

However, if you want to discuss options, causes, possibilities or news, go right ahead, but the "fuck you's" and the spinning of worthless speculation is going to lead to thread closure or post deletion/editing.

I'm telling you now, and I'm emphasizing it because it's important. If all you want to do is lay blame and vent... do it somewhere else.

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This is the bad thing about AdultDvDTalk: it is censored. But even the American concept of free speech is not truly free speech. The quote goes, "There is free speech, but you can't run into a crowded theatre and yell, 'Fire!'"

But MLyons is threatening to lock a thread and I can't say that I'd want to be in his position right now. At times like this, emotions run high and restraint is suppressed. Thus, what is acceptable and what is not is entirely subjective. I have no clue if his WARNING was in part inspired by my highlighting of something Chico said or something else. However, something told me the second the news of this broke here that the Moderator's were going to probably end up locking some threads. One of mine all ready has been.

So, despite whatever I have previously said, let me just echo the sentiments of Katie Morgan here and say that now is a time to come together, not fall apart.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 4/15/2004 10:23:08 PM

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If your comment on having a thread locked is about this thread, then it was locked to avoid having multiple discussions running about the same topic.

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Yes, one of your threads got locked, but nothing was deleted or censored. It was locked to try and not have many multiple threads started about the same topic, and a link was put in pointing to the other thread for anyone that read the locked thread.

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It's easy to lay blame on people. I think if someone is going to point the finger at Darren James, then the rest of us should share that blame.

Everyone knows that Brazil is rife with HIV. But it's too early still to tell if Darren acquired it in Brazil, on a shoot, in his personal time, or at home in the USA.

Everyone knows that many performers will shoot regardless of test. There's simply not any mandatory record keeping in regards to this behavior.

However, I take umbrage with Katie who is a friend of mine. She knows the reputation of certain companies who shoot regardless of test. She knows the dangers which lurk in Brazil. Yet, now, after the fact, she decries them? Even though she knowingly sent girls to these companies? It's easy to say now but if she's going to blame Darren James, it's just as easy to blame Katie for exposing her girls by sending them to these companies first to make the quick buck.

Katie knew that Mark Anthony, Max Blacc, Darren James, and TT Boy just came back from Brazil. And she sent girls over to them. And now she's blaming Darren for exposing HIV to her girls?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Frankly, everyone should relax. This is only the beginning.

I just say stop the posturing and the "I told you so" Monday morning quarterback bullshit. Nobody's to blame but ourselves.

WW

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How many times have there been threads on ADT from a director asking, "Who do you want me to hire, and what do you want her to do?" There are always plenty of responses to these threads, and some of them go on for quite a time. And fans aren't asking for one man/one woman scenes that are light on anal, not by a longshot. They want the most hardcore stuff that's out there, and then some. Though there are a few of us who would be perfectly happy with the lighter stuff.

Sometimes it's the actress herself who asks what do fans want to see. Sometimes an actress is just posting to have contact with fans (i.e., Teagan) and within a few days, people are asking her when is she going to do a gangbang, when is she going to start doing dp's? There's a thread running right now where the sole question is "Where are Teagan's DP's?" Talk about pressure!

Some may not care to hear me say this, but I do think that we fans are playing a role in this whole HIV situation, by our constant demands for more and more hardcore sex scenes, that put both the female and male performers at higher risk for contracting STD's.

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What will happen? Well, take a look at what happened last time. Condoms were required in porn...for about a month. Then everybody said fuck it, because our customers don't want this.

What happened was a tragedy, but it will happen again. Porn performers are paid to risk their lives, and once in a while the short odds come in.

It's going to give the govt a bit more juice. And becuase the industry is A LOT bigger industry than it was when Marc Wallace was exiled (meaning more money behind it) then you might see some real reform. Because porn is not going away. And condoms will not be permanent.

zig

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I, am in fact one of the posters in the Teagan DP thread. And a backhanded implication has already been made there that to express a desire for someone to do a DP is tantamount to not caring if they get hurt. With respect to the moderators, that is Absolute crap.

I would never want anyone to hurt themselves for porn. And the point is that they have the choice. No one is going to stop watching a porn star for not doing DPs, or at least I'm not.

I made it clear that I will still be a huge fan no matter what she does.

I have been amazed at all of these circus acts since starting to watch porn. In fact, I didn't even like to watch anal until recently. Now I am starting to enjoy regular DPs.

I would be perfectly happy with one on one sex with some anal.

That said, the anger against Darren is understandable, if uncompassionate.

I think it's time for a little compassion all around.

I would be happy to hear that there are more regs on stars fucking outside of the testing circle, however difficult that may be to enforce.

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Some possible positive solutions to this crisis include things like 1.) no more shoots in Brazil (whether or not Darren James contracted HIV there), 2.) more stringent STD testing polices/standards, and 3.) mandatory condom use (or at the very least greater tolerance if a porn performer elects to work condom-only).

Edited by - pontus maximus on 4/15/2004 11:26:14 PM

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Edited by - valjean4876 on 4/15/2004 11:20:57 PM

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Believe it or not, I did NOT know that they had just returned from Brazil, I was given a booking and the girls were asked if they wanted to work. Period, business as usual, and no second thoughts, that goes for my girls as well, who as you know full well have both been in this industry longer than I have. We had zero expectations of the problems lying ahead because we were uninformed.

Now I’m not saying that not knowing is a valid excuse, BELIVE me I am carrying my share of guilt right now. But the point is that we NEED to be informed, we need to inform ourselves about those around us. I can say at least for our agency that we have already decided to "research" ALL male talent our girls work with, both by reputation, and by the movies they have done in the past.

I also agree that we ALL need to calm down right now and see what happens.

One more thing Wanker dear, I do NOT appreciate that "extra buck" comment, that is WAY below the belt. Even for you.

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Again, you are missing the point of Katie's letter. The way I read it was not as a finger pointing message. She was merely saying that THE IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVOIR OF OTHERS CAN AND WILL AFFECT THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY.

In that, she admitted that herself and dear friends of hers, have also acted irresponsibly in the past. She didn't say Darren shouldn't receive sympathy for his situation but did remind everyone that his actions were brought on by himself.

HER JOB: Sending girls to work for companies under the guise that they are doing business professionally and responsibly is a daily event for Katie and many others like her. Is it Katie's fault that TT Boy ignored the NO CONDOM RULE in Brazil? That's a fact, admitted to and spoken about in text by Sharon Mitchell. Is it Katie's fault that Darren got involved in irresponsible personal behavoir [another piece of info Sharon claims she was informed of]?

When managers and agents send their talent to sets, they are counting on a professional, well organized, clean and up and up working conditions. When they hear of problems or wrong behavoir, the better managers and agents don't sent their talent there again.

The fact of the matter is, the message I got when I read Katie's mail was not one of IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, more a message to the rest of the biz, a reminder that we all need--a quick decision that you know is inappropriote, could cost lives...as it did here.

I'm really not on any sides here. I want the best for everyone involved because it affects my business as well--especially now that we're shooting movies. I'm not trying to bash Darren, the system, nuttin. I'm just saying that the girls who risk their lives on a daily basis spreading their legs have a legitimate right to be angry, scared, annoyed and by them releasing it in a forum like this is totally acceptable.

We all want this to stop. We all want this to go away. I myself have acted irresponsibly with no condom one-night-stands while partying, extra curriculars, etc. [It's been a while which is why I'm probably, grouchy - lol] Many of us have. But when we make that impulse decision or when we engage in an activity that we know is risky, it is our duty to do the right thing afterwards.

Test, test, test. You don't need to wait 30 days if you know there's a risk. Is $110 dollars worth your life and the lives of others?

...and yes Mutt, you're right too. The director, producer and anyone in an executive position on that set in Brazil that shot a scene with no condoms is not necissarily responsible because we can't peg the exact moment of infection, but they are resposible for making bad and risky decisions.

PS: Thank you MLyons for your moderation. I don't consider asking people to act maturely in their posts censorship. If that was the case, all the networks would have to allow a lot more naughty words during prime time television!

-done-

***NOTE: I see Katie was responding as I was. Sorry Katie, hope my comments represented where you were coming from.

Edited by - KSEXPJ_Wankus on 4/15/2004 11:43:38 PM

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There is no excuse for active American talent to do scenes with anyone who is not part of our standardized testing.

That sums it up perfectly. Hopefully her words will be heeded in the future.

By the way, yes, I am sucking up.

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I'm sorry I brought it up because it can only serve to divert conversation from the relevant topic of the thread. I have my opinion on it and I could say more but I'll leave it at that.

Consumer's Demand-

Hey, read what I said. I didn't disagree with the inferrence of Chico's comments.

Chico-

"Frankly, everyone should relax. This is only the beginning."

Whether I agree with him or side with Katie is irrelevent. This quote from him here is good advice.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 4/16/2004 12:01:04 AM

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Given this situation, and the inability of the adult industry to change this situation, it would seem far more logical to me, to work on areas where they CAN influence and implement solutions to crisis such as these.

My suggestion would be to implement some kind of central register at AIM, that the talent working in the business must log their scenes with. If this was in place, then rather than having AIM search back through a slow process of establishing 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc generation transmissions, they would be able to bring up all the data at the press of a button. If nothing else, it would help to contain the possible infections at an earlier stage, and provide some piece of mind to those performers who do not know if they might be on any kind of 4th generation trasmission list because of the length of time its taking to establish these lists.

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Note the emphasis on Congress . It means that the government cannot pass laws to restrict speech, except in the cases of Clear and Present Danger (the cry in a crowded theather example) and obscenity, as upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.

It's well-established that the same protection does not extend to private matters. That's why, for example, newspapers have editorial control over their content and do not have to print anything that anyone wants them to. Or why I can tell someone at my dinner table to shut up without worrying that some court is going to rule my actions unconstitutional.

Since AdultDVDTalk and its message boards are privately owned and not associated with the U.S. government in any way, there's no such thing as Freedom of Speech here. The site sets its own standards and enforces them. If one doesn't like the standards, they are free (thanks to the First Amendment) to put up their own money and then set their own rules.

I don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but since it was brought up, and since it's clear that more than a few people don't really understand what their rights are, I thought it was worth the Civics lesson.

- Saki [faqs]

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"I really doubt people are confusing the concept of free speech with the first amendment. No one is suggesting that it's mandatory that speech not be restricted. Just that censorship can be a bad idea. The first amendment is just an example of that concept."

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.

Saki-

Jesus Christ. I know my civics. Nothing you said was news to me, though it was all eloquently put. I know what free speech really is. I know that this forum, an international one at that, is free to do whatever it damn well pleases.

Will the Masters let women golfers in? No, because they don't have to. It's a similar line of thought. You create your own rules and follow them. Fine. I'm not about to leave this forum or anything like that. I love AdultDVDTalk. (Please don't take offense to the Masters comparison. It was just the first thing that came to mind.)

It's just that this is a spirited topic and the moderators at large are hard at work now to try and ensure that cooler heads prevail. I was merely pointing that out and trying, though obviously failing, to compliment MLyons and say I wouldn't want to have to be a moderator at a time like this.

I tried to close the box with my last post, but pandora is obviously out.

But again, if we want to discuss this issue then it is a perfectly valid discussion. However, the only thing that matters right now is that Darren James and Laura Roxx are HIV+ now and the industry is at ground zero. The ethics of AdultDVDTalk are of rather little consequence to that. But again, I am the one who brought it up...sorry.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 4/16/2004 1:29:15 AM

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You know something? It's going to happen again and again. Why? Becaue there is no such test that can detect the HIV virus in one, two, three weeks. It's just not possible. The actual viral infection may actually hibernate before it is actually in formation. Your best chances is to wait 6 months before having somewhat of real chance of positivity, no pun intended, of a final result. I say, for the most part, a lot of these talents have been hit with the lucky whip. People, we need to start enjoying Films with fully strapped talents.

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Well put. The more I read the more it seems as if the recommended 60 days will really not truly allow containment as AIM has said.

I'm glad you concur, but I'm dreading the possible responses I might get from the other moderators. Let's just get back on topic.

It has been an odd experience following this story and reading about it. When the news broke, everyone around here was just so stunned and pretty much every single one of us was saying things, "Our prayers are with Darren and everyone involved." And that seemed to be the intial printed response elsewhere. But now shock is turning into anger and I am sure some are feeling denial. It's like the whole entire industry is going through the psychological stages. However, again in an attempt to center the discussion, one can only imagine the horrid stages of thought the actual performers are going through.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 4/16/2004 1:28:10 AM

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As far as I'm concerned, I would only say that once Darren discovered he was HIV +, he conducted himself very responsibly.

I'm not here to criticize or blame or engage in backtalk. There are too many performers stressed out with life and death issues to play "I know better" or "It's all his fault", etc.

Again, we should all just kick back and see what transpires before running into conclusions.

For the longest time, everybody in the industry knew that TT Boy would shoot girls regardless of test. He's not the only one guilty of it. He just happened to be victimized by his russian roulette behavior.

It's real super easy to get emotional here but that won't change what lies in the future. Katie, if I was way out of line, I apologize because I did get emotional over what I perceived as your mistreatment of Darren James.

I just hope there'll be a positive light at the end of this tunnel. Trust me, and I'm not going to get into rumor mongering until I have the genuine facts, but it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Let's all try to help those who may acquire this instead of blaming.

WW

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This stuff also feeds on itself: During an emotional debate like this one, if I shut someone down for being rude, then they'll inevitably point to every friggin' closed thread in the past week as evidence that we're engaging in censorship. They'll point to this thread and say, "See, I'm not the only one who thinks you're being a fascist!"

With people throwing concepts around so freely (not just you), I thought it was important to point that out, if not for you, for the others who are either not familiar with the U.S. government or who fell asleep in high school and who are quick to point out freedom of speech.

- Saki [faqs]

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Chico wrote in his response to Katie-

"Again, we should all just kick back and see what transpires before running into conclusions."

Again, great advice.

Saki-

All fair enough. It is very obvious that my intentions in my original post that broached the topic were vastly misunderstood and thus I was exposed to the civic lesson that I didn't need, though as you indicated it was meant for a larger purpose.

This whole entire situation, all of its permutations, is a nightmare. I think I am going to take Chico's advice and step back from all of this and merely observe.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 4/16/2004 1:47:50 AM

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Even though I am one of those people who LOVE hardcore sex and double penetrations,and I can't really get into condom-sex,people in the industry will do what they have to.I think this issue is and should be "bigger"than any consumer demands.

I'm amazed that there aren't more reports of infected people considering how much porn is being cranked out these days.As has been said,the only other performer I recall getting HIV in the last few years was Tony Montana.

I think given the nature of porn,the acts involved,and the "recreational"activities of some of the performers(especially the here today-gone tomorrow young girls)you would think it would happen more often.

I wouldn't be surprised if some in the industry really make an effort to go condom only.As has been said,with the spectre of our great patriot savior John Ashcroft looming over the industry,how the industry handles this could be crucial.I would be the last person to know the legal ramifications of such behavior,but I wouldn't be suprised if someone at least tried to politicize the idea that the sex film industry is a danger to the public's health.In other words,this could be ammunition for the anti-porn crusaders.

As I said about Amee Donovan,NOTHING is worth risking your longterm health like this.The industry was created by consumers,but personally I don't think anyone is ultimately obligated to engage in risky behavior.If there was no HIV or other sinister diseases I would say anything goes,but for some reason there are these diseases out there(I'm still not convinced AIDS wasn't manufactured,but that's for another paranoid conspiracy thread).

Like I said,I'm one of those people that just can't mentally "get over"condom use in movies,when I watch a scene,it's just not the same as watching sex without condoms.But even though I watch alot of porn,I'm willing to put my personal taste and preferences aside in favor of letting people perform more safely.

I think I would probably stop watching porn if EVERYTHING was condom only(oral,vag,anal,etc.).But perhaps the industry is due for some serious standards to be put in place instead of the purported haphazard practices that some people are used to dealing with.

Perhaps,I say.I'm a double penetration freak,but,there are more important things in life.

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Just quoting the relevant snippets of posts will help keep the site's costs down and improve the speed of the site for everyone.

Thanks.

- Saki [faqs]

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