^^Can you elaborate on what your issue is with the so called new LP content vs the stuff they were shooting 4-5 years ago? I'm really curious to know what has significantly changed in your opinion.
^^less variety of women, more scenes with lingeries and high heels (i am a full naked body and bare feet n toes person), but as i said, this is my opinion, i will keep thinking this way, i understand there are other opinions same/different than mine which are all respected by my end...
I agree with you. On the clothing.. well I like variety.. sometimes it's hot to watch them with the heels still on but it's ultimately still hotter when they're naked. The ideal scene for me would have a bit of anal action before they're fully nude, and then more when they are fully nude. Variety. I don't like some of the LP scenes where the lass is wearing a corset for the entire scene.. I mean I hate corsets anyway, I want them to take it off at some point.
The principle is right though, regardless of preference or opinion. Variety is good, it's important not to exclude certain preferences, not to be too restrictive. I do want to see scenes with stuff I don't like too IF other people do like it. I think everyone should be catered for (within reason. For example no scat. There are specific sites for that).
^^^&^^Sorry gentlemen but while I agree that variety in the performers that LP hires is an issue. I have already explained that they type of porn they choose to shoot makes it hard for them to get as many different women to work for them but the clothes thing has not changed in the last 6 plus years so not sure exactly when you remember it being different. You will have to give me some examples of what you are referring to.
P.S: Now that they own Private and DDF Network then that may be two sources where they might get some variety in the models who technically appear on an LP owned site but I doubt most of those women will transition to the circus porn LP is known for and therefore LP as a brand will still be stuck with the same women doing the extreme stuff.
They did it for years now, I can see no diffrence in shootings in the last year, only to trends, more piss stuff, as far as I see due heavy demanding on the consumer side, second a litlle bit lack of US and Non-Eastern Europe performer. Why I don't know. But that's it.
The biggest difference for me, versus 3-4 years ago, is with Giorgio Grandi's work.
In his earlier days at LP he was prepared to make some "special" productions, sometimes with a plot, or on a different set, or with background performers. These were standout scenes back then and still are now. However, as time went by he realised his cookie cutter scenes brought in more profit for less effort and so his studio became hideously formulaic. Some examples of such (multi-part) scenes: The whole "clockwork gang" series, Lara's Perversions, Angel's Perversions, The Belle Factor
Apparently now he has another guy who actually shoots the scenes for him and he just writes out for him what positions to include and in what order. Sounds like a recipe for exciting porn eh, lol!
It's pretty common practice for the "name brand" guy to farm out production to a third party. That doesn't mean they're not involved creatively.
Example: Many Sineplex scenes were not shot by the guy everyone knew as Sineplex, or "SOS" or whatever else he called himself. There was a revolving door of different directors, including myself. In point of fact, though, that guy probably shot more than Giorgio has lately. He would take the helm from time to time and he was very hands-on with the rest of us as far as ensuring that we were meeting the Sineplex standard of quality. There was a run of scenes toward the end of Sineplex's ignoble existence which were all shot by him, and they were all absolute fire. He was a talented guy and I learned a lot from him. It's a shame about his money problems. I always felt that he was his own worst enemy, and I truly hope that he's straightened himself out.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 6/28/2020 11:48:07 AM
^^I argue that anyone familiar with a video camera who spends some time watching a few Giorgio directed videos and time on his set can probably copy his shooting style to such a level that no one will be able to tell the difference. Giorgio may have been avant-garde a decade ago but today more than one director copies his shooting style. It's not like he shoots scenario driven porn scenes where he needs to get a certain performance from the actors. His modus operandi is woman who within a short amount of time is naked and shoving fingers, toys in her ass before getting one or more dicks to replace those fingers and toys. He will sometime have two or more women who basically do the above stuff to themselves or each other but that's about it for variety. By the way. That isn't a criticism of the man because I think he is a genius who found a recipe that satisfies his fans on a regular basis. The only negative might be that because he has found this magical recipe that works then he isn't likely to play with it and his stuff will always look the same.
I would actually argue that Giorgio has copied elements from the style of directors like Rocco Siffredi and Gabriel Zero, that they in turn synthesized their style from early gonzo pioneers like John Stagliano, Laetitia, and Max Hardcore, and turtles all the way down.
We all learn from each other. Nobody has a trademark on their personal style, and it needs to evolve over time anyway or it quickly becomes irrelevant.
Edited by - evilpineapples on 6/28/2020 1:00:10 PM
^^We will have to agree to disagree on Giorgio because while he may have copied some portion of the various people you named. I think his style is very different from those previous men and women. For one thing. I think all of them are not just behind the scene type of people but usually participant in the on screen actions but Giorgio as far as I know is a behind the scene only type of producer. All of them tended to shoot in different locations/rooms while Giorgio has preferred to always shoot in basically the same room and with the same type of furniture. Let's not forget the extreme anal penetration. While he wasn't remotely close to the first producer to shoot extreme anal penetration (DAP/TAP/very large toys). He has certainly made it his calling card going all the way back to the days of No Rest For the Ass.
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Aaron Aardvark Deactivated User
Arkansas 53 Posts 12/04
Posted - Jun 29 2020 : 6:24AM
My point wasn't that Giorgio is not shooting the scenes but that he has said he lays out, in advance, what positions will be shot, in what order etc. That seems fine for your own work, as you can then vary things if you see them taking a better route but I think you need to give someone else a freer hand than that. Otherwise "porn by numbers" seems inevitable.
I like Giorgio's style, I like a lot less his obsession with lingerie, as in porn I definitely prefer nude bodies. In this regard, Gonzo vastly improved during the years. I remember old videos with Timea Bella having her tits covered for the whole scene...
Another thing I don't really like in Giorgio videos is the lights and the colours, not sure I can explain this, but Gonzo, IV and American Anal have better palette, more contrast, the scenes seem less filtered.
Yes, those multi-part and multi-actresses scenes were great and I miss them as well. Gio still release some multi-part stuff from time to time (Anna de Ville Halloween party and Anna de Ville is indestructible, the scene with Zee Twins, some ethero + trans-stuff) but not as legendary and well-conceived as some old scenes.
What you need, frankly, is a partner rather than a subordinate. Someone who will argue with you tooth and nail over every little thing because that's how much they care about making a quality product.
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suavehuman Deactivated User
301 Posts 1/20
Posted - Jul 7 2020 : 4:41PM
LP has used the same 20 chicks to make over thousands of scenes. This site has literally ruined gorgeous women like Kira Thorn and Belle Claire for me. Way Overused!!
I started watching porn in the early 2000s when decent anal themed porn was being produced by numerous producers in America and Europe.
These days I find Legalporno to be the only producer consistently putting out porn that meets my taste. Giorgio is by far my favorite director atm and whoever directs scenes for "gonzo" studio being a close second. The russian studio is also putting out great stuff and seems to be doing a decent job of keeping Lp interesting during these dark covid days
This is not always a bad thing, for example a gorgeous girl like Nata Lee who did few anal scenes got 10+ anal scenes for LP only which is great: it's her only anal content worth watching, the others are just unknown Eastern Europe studios shooting plain bad scenes Or Jenny Glam, she fulfilled my anal desires doing some great scenes for LP And the list goes on... But I do agree some performers are overly used, Belle Claire has something like 30 scenes, like seriously?! What's missing in LP are fresh ideas, a more passion/chemistry and more nudity shown, can't stand having a woman keeping a corset hiding her gracious hips for the whole scene!
^ You're right. It's also true that while some are on contracts and produce loads of scenes there are also plenty of other hot girls that they feature so there's plenty of variety alongside the regulars.
^^I guess their business model must be a problem if the only two women you named last appeared on LP 5 years ago. In fact they didn't do much after appearing on LP so is it possible that their experience working for them soured their view of porn and they left soon after? I also have to point out that while 10 is a decent number of videos. That is a tiny number when compared to many of the women who have dozens upon dozens of videos all doing the same thing.
The question I ask is...If you aren't willing to do at least one DAP (likely way more) then do you have any hope of appearing multiple times on LP today?
If this is indeed true for Nata Lee it isn't for Jenny Glam who continued until last year LP experince is sometimes too traumatic and extreme for some models making them quit thereafter, but certain girls love working for them: Ktristy Black, Belle Claire and so on, I think for some cases the girls have been pushed/persuated(by their agent, agency or someone else) to shoot for LP, one notable mantion: Olivia/Sophia Traxler she's been requested so much times that the produced (thinking about the profit)pressured her to try anal and DP. In the scenes she's clarly in pain and not trained enough to take such huge cocks up her asshole and she quits forever shortly afterI don't think so, take for example Taylee Wood, a fan-favourite who did all sorts of niches and people keep asking her again and again, if a model sells and gets requested she's more lkely to come back, DAP aside. That's it
I think at the moment something changes due Corona and beside health care, all the travelling restriction results in not really able to shot regular again. To the girls maybe there are a lot of girls suggested by her agents to do this and later said no more. On the other hand the kick for me was to see US porn stars doing stuff in a rough way they do not do in the US. For example Lauren Philips, Dee Williams, Syren de Mer and others, but I don't know, there is a girl Florane Russell, who wrote in LP forum to get pushed into doing DAP, she did one day, but was really uncomfortable doingt this and now refused, but still in contact with LP, for me also it is not easy to see this whole LP construct with different companies like GIO or IV. There are girls who seem to like it, Jolee Love from or Barbie Sins (UK). A girl I really loved did a lot in 2015 and seems to have fun, said in an interview then, it would be like an sports competition with challenges. Sorry to say she commited suicide in summer 2018, her name was Julie Skyhigh. Also a unclear case is Texas Patti, a german located in LA, She did 2 or 3 but don't know for what reasons. All of the girls I mentioned did DAP, often ATP and nearly all Piss scenes for LP.
Scarlet Domingo, last scene released yesterday, has 6 scenes so far and no DAP (most of them 1to1 anal scenes)
And there are other examples, btw. Veronica Leal is one of the most popular Gonzo models, she has over 50 scenes and does not shoot DAPs nor DPPs. And there are the opposite, ie people who does DAP or even TAP and shot only one scene. I think the discriminating factor for being re-booked is being popular/selling enough ticket or not. There are performers who are always in high demand, eg. Kristy Black or Rebecca Volpetti, no matter how many scenes they shot or how many times they did the same stuff.
The concept of overuse is very personal IMO. I see some overuse in Kira Thorn, I really lost interest because her scenes became more of the same. But I would be glad of seeing more scenes of Belle Claire or Alexis Crystal, even if they already have 60 and 35.True, true, true, even if I don't think anyone in LP is currently shooting scenes with performers not showing the tits (it used to happen 4-5 years ago). But as I wrote above Giorgio Grandi focuses too much on lingerie, which is often a bone killer for my tastes.
Being a long time Kink member then I can safely say that the days when they were a true bondage network are long gone. Some of their sites still have a moderate amount of bondage with some of them having way more but for the most part the bulk of their sites barely dip their toes in the bondage pool. For that reason the only models who would avoid shooting for Kink are those that don't want to shoot anal, don't want to have any ropes touch their body. I mean Everything Butt, Whipped Ass and Sex and Submission tend to be more anal-centric than anything else.
Taylee has still done 5 DAP out of a total of 16 videos so not exactly a DAP shy performer. I don't know if she was willing to shoot more DAP but didn't get booked or was reticent to shoot more of them but I'm curious to know if her total number of videos would be the same if she had shot more DAP.
I also have to point out while 16 videos is a decent number of videos. It pales when compared to many of the models who have twice as many and more thna a few who have 50 plus videos.
^ The key factor isn't DAP but requests by members and performer's fame
But yes they totally overuse some models. I think this is due to the fact they work differently than PW for example: they shoot lots of scenes even if the majority of them don't sell well
^ They work differently from everyone else. I understand it's hard to understand for people used to Brazzers, Bangbros, Tushy and so on, who change models every time and generally do not shoot the same model more than a half dozen of times (in a 3-4 years span of time!). I remember once I asked in the Dogfart topic if they would shoot again with a model, and they replied no because they already shot her twice. This is a different system. There are veterans and overused models, as well as new models every week. Generally the "overused" ones sell well than most of the new ones. But you eventually pay just for what you want.
Good to see IV back in the mix and putting out scenes. I thought that I had read somewhere that Tony Brooklyn got fired but for whatever reason he appears to be back.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jul 25 2020 : 1:37PM
Not a fan of LP but Taylee Wood is magnificent. Good to see her doing some one-on-one scenes, hope she shoots for other studios and the dream would be for her to make it across the pond to shoot with the best US directors.
I think you know exactly what I meant but just for you.....'It's a bit like asking how likely you would be to appear on KINK if you weren't into ropes'!
^ Not really, I just happen to read their forum once in a while and they were reluctant about shooting more with Taylee because according to them scenes weren't selling well. And this was just an example but there are many others. I know it's difficult for these studios to release scenes when piracy is so common, someone like PW is taking measures for that, making presales or something. But see how they work differently from others: they release a ton of videos because they can: they are connected with WGCZ that makes lots of money from... but that's another story
^ Only Gonzo studio is connected with WGCZ. The rest of the studios like Gio, IV and AmericanAnal are independent and just get the money from their sales.
The exact numbers are not public, but the rankings are. You can see monthly, yearly and all time best sellers, check here. If you check the pages of the single studios the scenes are ordered per sales. And the pages of the actresses are also plenty of informations about their sales.
How do you know that? I did a quick search on Wikipedia and I see that "WGCZ holding... has controlling interest in the productions gathered under the Legal Porno brand", there aren't more details but it says productionS
If you want you can ask directly to Giorgio Grandi if his studio is owned by WGCZ or is independent, he is pretty vocal about that. WGCZ owns the LP website and gets a percentage of the money that GIO, IV, AmericanAnal and the other studios earn when they sell their scenes under the website. This is pretty obvious if you read their forum (where among the many discussions on this topic there were some not too vailed complaints and polemics between some studios and the LP owner in the past). Lately they opened their gates even to individuals/amateurs, so if you want to sell your homemade porn through their website you can, but you have to pay for your scenes and have to give them a percentage of the sales-earnings.
In addition to that, they have their own studio, which is Gonzo and it's the main LP studio. They also have other channels in the website with which they sell productions from other WGCZ-owned websites (BangBros, DFF, Private) and that's all. You could say they have more money and that there is some sort of unfair competition with other LP studios, but actually GIO and American Anal usually if not almost regularly oversell Gonzo movies.
About sales ranking page, mine was mainly a reply to Pitbull67. I should have probably added a "^^"
If the other studios are true independent studios producing porn that they can sell to anyone else then can you tell us which other studios buy their porn videos? Is it possible that they only sell to LP and nobody else making them less an independent studio and more a separate arm of LP. I can't say why LP does it this way but money may be part of the reason.
If you don't have access to their sales numbers then can you be certain that they are accurate. After all LP is under no legal obligation to be honest about which video is a better seller than another. They can use their best seller system to promote specific videos.
The American Anal director/producer (sorry if I don't remember his name) work for other American companies. Same with GIO (Giorgio Grandi) the early days when he started collaborating with LP he still directed movies distribuited by others. Same with Omar Galanti, for the period he collaborated with them. Same with Jay Sin/ Sineplex.
As for me, the internal competition between studios is apparent, and it is sufficient to read their forum. There are polemics of producers against the LP system (eg. AmericanAnal). There are one studio's exclusive actresses not allowed to shoot with others. There are performers who have problems with one studio and go to another (eg. Belle Clair). There are polemics between studios when one studio performer switch to another (eg. Natasha Teen). Their forum, which is very anarchic (if not a mess) is BTW a little jewel in showing some sides of porn business which are often well hidden. But if you prefer to feed your conspiracy theories, you are welcome.
About sales numbers you are right, they can declare what they want. But ultimately you can see the performers who are high in the ranks are the ones who get re-booked and even over-used, while the ones who are low disappear after one or two scenes.
Cool link. Thanks for sharing it. One thing that struck me when I took a cursory look at the page is how much LP has jacked up the cost of their scenes. That's too bad. I've bought probably close to a thousand LP scenes over the years but they've priced themselves out of my league now. It would have to be a special scene to get me to part with the cost of a monthly subscription at another site.
I think you misunderstood my question; I wanted to know if only GIO was owned by WGCZ because as far as I know they own all LegalPorno(not the single studios) and now you answered it, thanks. I was explaining why (to me) they can afford to shoot many scenes and to lose money when those scenes don't sell well and that's because they're owned by WGCZSee, that was my feeling to. That forum is pure chaos and, if I'm allowed to criticize, very badly moderated. Very interesting analysis btw!
Warning, this is 100% pure speculation on my part: maybe they sometimes do not earn as much as they'd like, but I don't think they really lose all these money.
I read sometimes in the LP forum GIO or xxx (WGCZ's owner) complaining about losing money with a given scene or a series of scenes, but IMO these complaints read more like an excuse to justify a ticket price upgrade, the non-re-booking of an actress or the failure in fulfilling a request. "We are losing money" is always a perfect answer to shut down a controversy or a request. And ultimately if a scene really loses money, I am pretty sure the next one will re-pay them with interests.
Look at the IV case, their movies are always very low in the sales rankings, if Gonzo and GIO lose money then IV should have disappeared in a matter of months, but I've never heard Joachim Kessef complaining about losing money and he keeps on producing his stuff for years.
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suavehuman Deactivated User
301 Posts 1/20
Posted - Jul 27 2020 : 10:07AM
^^ Interesting. I haven't watched much of Veronica Leal, but is there any reason why 5 of the top ten scenes ever are all her scenes?
^^ I have no inside experience or knowledge, but it seems to me that raising your prices has the potential to backfire. Yes, you're making more money on each sale but you're reducing the number of sales. The net profit may be down from raised prices. I accept that LP isn't cookie-cutter porn. There really aren't many other companies out there producing what is available there and that should command a premium price. But from reading other comments here I'm not the only active porn buyer who has had to drop my purchases at LP because they're too expensive now. If LP goes back to their older model I am happy to pay a premium but it has to be reasonable. The current business model is no longer reasonable. They are pricing themselves out of the market.
Posted - Jun 25 2020 : 7:19AM
